Kyiv

[Desin]

Yep, consumer mentality. I'm not saying pay premium.

It's simple logic: when the girls have a lot of potential clients lining up in Mamba, they can charge more. When there are less. To the point that they would like to have more. Then they can accept lower prices. About premium: like I said, I've already paid enough 250-300 dollar / hours and found out that it's simply not worth it. My regulars have been less than 150 dollar for hour and their looks and skills in sex have been perfect for me, so I won't settle for less. Since so few girls in Mamba replied last summer, the market in Kiev didn't appear satisfying. If this would change, it gives a new interest to the city. I liked the place otherwise.

If the history teaches us anything, then you would understand that when times are tough, and the visiting hobbyists are scarce, Ukrainian girls raise prices.

This sentence requires further explanation, since there hasn't been mentions about the prices in previous critical moments in the history of Kiev / Ukraine. Is this your personal experience? Where did the spike in prices show up? Non-pro, semi-pro, pro?

Stop analyzing. You over-engineer it.

It's called planning. I use this forum to find a place to have a holiday. That's the reason to read these posts: to find information about availability, prices and experiences with independent girls, salons etc. I see that some like to use it for other purposes, but based on the amount of questions related to direct experiences concerning prices, availability of girls etc. In this forum at large, I would say that most of the people are here for that. To share their experiences among these issues. Some like to write stories of what they did. All the way to what positions they had etc. - but I find that to be rather amusing. In a silly way. But everyone to their tastes.

There was good discussion around last spring and summer.

No. Fatal mistake.

Best price if you go right now. Girls need money. Summer = The crisis will be over. Tourists come back. Every nice girl will be on vacation. Or Kyiv will be a part of Russia.

1st: there are periodically fixed vacation times that prevent the travel at one's leisure, so my main trip of the year will be in the summer season. I'd say that I have to book my trip in the next two months, so I still have a little bit of time to wait to see if the dust will rise or settle down.

2st: I wouldn't consider it safe to travel at this moment. Nobody can say what will happen to the (return) flights in the next month.

[Nero6]

Are you in Ukraine, or is this advice based on news reports?

I left. This is based on local and foreign people I know in Ukraine. The foreigners I know in Ukraine (some already left) and the rest will leave this weekend. Why do you think so many countries Foreign Minister service say leave Ukraine now (fast).

Also today the Russians start to send there diplomats out of Ukraine and back to Russia.

Also the last couple of day's there just been built a large field hospital on the Russian side of the border.

And from Kiev to the Berlarus border where there are Russian trops only few hours drive.

[VinDici]

Many foreign ministry service say do not travel to Ukraine and if you are in Ukraine leave ASP. The situation is out of control and Russia can attack any time.

My advice do not go to Ukraine and if you are in Ukraine leave fast.

Are you in Ukraine, or is this advice based on news reports?

[Nero6]

Many foreign ministry service say do not travel to Ukraine and if you are in Ukraine leave ASP. The situation is out of control and Russia can attack any time.

My advice do not go to Ukraine and if you are in Ukraine leave fast.

[Misterxxx]

Last summer people were reporting that the prices had gone high because of the Arabs flooding the streets and markets of Kiev. There really were a lot of them. So it's no wonder that my 120 dollar offers in Mamba didn't attract too much interest.

My thoughts are that summer 2022 could be different because of the current uncertain political situation. How many people are ready to make plans or book trips to Kiev at this moment? If the situation doesn't dissolve to normal in this month. Or at least the next month. I would expect it to have an impact on tourism on summer season. And that could bring the prices down. If this happens then Kiev would be an interest of mine again.

Let's see how it plays out.

No. Fatal mistake.

Best price if you go right now. Girls need money. Summer = The crisis will be over. Tourists come back. Every nice girl will be on vacation. Or Kyiv will be a part of Russia.

[PhotoSlider]

I would expect it to have an impact on tourism on summer season. And that could bring the prices down. If this happens then Kiev would be an interest of mine again.

Yep, consumer mentality. I'm not saying pay premium. My philosophy is simple: I need 3-5 girls, regulars from prior visits, interspersed with newly found barbers, masseuses, and hourly providers. I think I'll be able to find those.

One of my regulars still wants to meet. She is the one that easily allowed me to bring in my new beauties, while she slept on the sofa in leaving room at my apartment. I found her in Kiev in June 2014, when invasion into Eastern Ukraine was in full swing. I didn't notice any difference. Had 6 girls total in 36 hours after landing at KBP, and then departing. Including threesome with beautiful Lana and another no name girl from the good agency, that doesn't exist anymore.

If the history teaches us anything, then you would understand that when times are tough, and the visiting hobbyists are scarce, Ukrainian girls raise prices.

Stop analyzing. You over-engineer it. Just go and fuck them, wherever it strikes your fancy. Africa, Australia, there are girls everywhere. You already mentioned spending too much time on smartphone. Typical mistake in Kiev.

Best of luck!

[Desin]

I do not consider anybody as my competition. I don't care who the visitors are. Arabs, Germans, Brits, Israeli, - same difference to me. My interest is in Ukrainian beauties. Most of the time I think about females anyway, and not about men.

Last summer people were reporting that the prices had gone high because of the Arabs flooding the streets and markets of Kiev. There really were a lot of them. So it's no wonder that my 120 dollar offers in Mamba didn't attract too much interest.

My thoughts are that summer 2022 could be different because of the current uncertain political situation. How many people are ready to make plans or book trips to Kiev at this moment? If the situation doesn't dissolve to normal in this month. Or at least the next month. I would expect it to have an impact on tourism on summer season. And that could bring the prices down. If this happens then Kiev would be an interest of mine again.

Let's see how it plays out.

[PhotoSlider]

I'm thinking about the current situation in relation to timing: if the situation doesn't dissolve, will the Arabs be that crowd that can still pick up flights couple of months before summer vacation season and choose Kiev as their destination? Or are they 'regular' people who make their travel plans early on in the spring-time?

I do not consider anybody as my competition. I don't care who the visitors are. Arabs, Germans, Brits, Israeli, - same difference to me. My interest is in Ukrainian beauties. Most of the time I think about females anyway, and not about men.

For me, there are women whom I consider interesting. These are highly intelligent and either educated or creative persons. Then there are the women I want to fuck. It is extremely rare for these two to coincide.

To me the sexiest part of female body is brain. Having sex with intelligent, creative, interesting woman gives incomparable pleasure. Yes, those are rare, but their density in population of Kiev is certainly few orders of the value higher than average on the planet. Take into the account how Ukrainian moms bring up their daughters, teach them proper behavior, and there is no comparison.

I met a girl from Tinder in Kiev and she even did the joke about me offering money for sex, but since I hesitated with "is this a trap"-thought (like would she just delete me from contacts) and instead went for the non-sexual approach (we went to take pictures for some hours) I didn't dare to ask it again. It would have been exactly what I had hoped for. In retrospect I understand that she would have not kept that age group in Tinder, if it wasn't for money.

I would say you made a mistake. And it's good that you are strong enough to admit it. Ukrainian women like sex.

at the present moment, I don't really want to get to know the girl I want to fuck. If I find a girl really interesting, I actually want to have many hours of conversation with her. The sex would spoil something of it, for me.

At least you want to have a conversation with some. Not everybody does.

Yeah, I mix and interweave all sorts of female personalities and behavior. Creates an interesting fabric of my life.

But one could get lucky. And also scammed and robbed.

No reason to be reckless and careless in any locality, but females feel if you are not sure how to proceed. May destroy the vibes.

I feel that a requirement for a successful visit would be to have at least one reliable and enjoyable contact, with whom one can have sex in each day he wants.

It certainly is possible. 3-4 weeks in and heavenly gates open up.

[Desin]

My reports and memoirs provide more of a methodology, pursuing members not to waste time while having unrealistic expectations. I am definitely not a guide, taking anybody by the hand. For all I care, my posts can be ignored. No hard feelings. And thank you for respectfully explaining your aspirations, Desin.

And I have read them with joy and interest, when they have not been in the certain kind of spirit which can be seen in this forum every now and then. That of an egoistic narrative depicting some years ago happened scenes, without informative value to the current readership. I hadn't seen this in your post, at least I don't remember that there would have been it that much that it would had affected my valuation towards your writings (the opposite is more true), but lately your posts had regrettably come to fall to this category. This is why I noted about it. The post you just made was 'back on the track' and it was joy to read, again.

Arabs will stay. They bring much needed cash, that's why the government eased their travel.

I'm thinking about the current situation in relation to timing: if the situation doesn't dissolve, will the Arabs be that crowd that can still pick up flights couple of months before summer vacation season and choose Kiev as their destination? Or are they 'regular' people who make their travel plans early on in the spring-time?

How many girls do you need? I am satisfied with alternating 3, up to 5. Sourcing them from hourly agencies, Rio, GIA in the past, massage places, barber shops, anywhere, and then friends of those girls.

Sounds about the same for my ideal. But the time is not on one's side if they have to be searched from many different sources with either fake pictures or with the use of other language than English. I didn't dare to try agencies on my visit to Kiev, until one night when I was swiping the Tinder after couple of cocktails and noted that there was a number on one of the pictures. So that was my first experience with an 'agency girl'. It was 120 dollars for an hour. Now I don't have a problem for the idea of it, but only because of the lack of trust to get what I would order. A strategy that I had mused was to have multiple agency numbers and test them out in the first days of the trip to see which one would provide the girls from their photos. I didn't follow this plan because I didn't feel comfortable to use them (at first, before this one try) and because majority of the numbers went cold before my trip. If Kiev would be my destination again, then this could be one way to approach the situation. In Mamba I had several contacts, but when asked for their real pictures and starting to communicate, I felt that they were not what I seeked. I met one girl from Mamba. She was recommended here.

Desin, let me give you one of my easy sources. It is very time consuming, but I enjoy the process of seduction.

This is a major difference in approach. For me, there are women whom I consider interesting. These are highly intelligent and either educated or creative persons. Then there are the women I want to fuck. It is extremely rare for these two to coincide. I met a girl from Tinder in Kiev and she even did the joke about me offering money for sex, but since I hesitated with "is this a trap"-thought (like would she just delete me from contacts) and instead went for the non-sexual approach (we went to take pictures for some hours) I didn't dare to ask it again. It would have been exactly what I had hoped for. In retrospect I understand that she would have not kept that age group in Tinder, if it wasn't for money.

What is the massage price in Kiev? I don't even look at the menu, as my objective is not to have a hand job, but rather make an acquaintance, get her phone number.

I made a visit to such a place, just for the experience as many people seem to enjoy them, but it was not for my taste. If there would be a girl who would speak very good English and had humanistic studies in university, then I could strike a conversation. But this was a good experience, because now I can rule out the 'getting her phone number' from my ways of approaching the subject at hand.

I am genuinely interested in learning more about that young lady's personality. And I don't ever raise the subject of sex. That helps me to get full service eventually in a more natural non-professional way. Since I have a few girls to keep me busy, I am not eager to escalate it. Girls expect me pressing them for sex, as they are bombarded with offers through Instagram and at work, but I don't. Their curiosity makes them flirt more intensely, as they try to leverage their power over me, and eventually we end up in bed.

I think I understand what is your thrill or joy in this. Maybe one day I might enjoy the same. But at the present moment, I don't really want to get to know the girl I want to fuck. If I find a girl really interesting, I actually want to have many hours of conversation with her. The sex would spoil something of it, for me.

Asking a massage girl in Kiev about a quick fuck offering her 70-120 bucks ain't going to work. No offense meant, Desin.

That price range was indicating the comfortable zone that I would prefer to pay for a student girl for her services. Found through Mamba, Tinder or Badoo. I don't pay 230-300 dollars anymore, which I used to do when I started the hobby. Only locals I have met in the recent years have halved their price for me or been around 120-140 dollars. So I would not want to pay more in a cheaper country than what I would pay here at the cheapest (which is my normal price now). I've had enough experiences to find out what kind of sex I like and what kind of bodies and faces I like. I don't consider sex with the most beautiful woman I have been with to be worth her price (was it 250 or 300 dollars, which is the regular non-regular price in my country) for second time. Only because of the experience and the memory I can think that okay, it was not waste of money even if the sex was just basic. And if I consider the best sex that I have had. With girls who really get my eyes to twinkle (the ones I had for regulars) - I wouldn't pay them more than that 140 dollars for an hour. It's just not worth it, even if the sex is really awesome each time. So this is my logic and reasoning for the price range. Travelling to another country which has other prices so much lower compared to my country, I'm not prepared nor willing to pay more than here. I'd rather pay less. If I would find a girl who I could and would want to meet every day or every other day as a regular, then the optimal money-for-sex ration would be around 70-120 dollars. One hour meetings are good for me, three hours are max. I don't want to spent time with the girl after the essentials.

The problem with agencies and apartments is the lack of English and the sheer number of hit-and-misses one would have to make. So other venues where English is used is the way for me. I'm not comfortable to approach girls on the street, even though there were situations were regular girls did give some looks. I regret that I didn't realize to spend time in the main street after 22 pm, as some said that there are local girls there who are looking for clients. This and Mamba could be an option. Or an agency with 100% real pictures of the girls bodies. I think that the competition in Tinder is really high. I mean that you got to have those pics that would do it for regular girls as well. And the prices too, so that's not an realistic venue to pursue girls. But one could get lucky. And also scammed and robbed.

I liked Kiev a lot. Unfortunately I was too busy with my phone trying to find contacts that I couldn't enjoy it in real holiday sense. I feel that a requirement for a successful visit would be to have at least one reliable and enjoyable contact, with whom one can have sex in each day he wants. This would take out the pressure and the rest would be just a bonus. And no need to waste hours and hours for the search on the ground. It already takes so lot of time to try to find them before arriving the destination.

[PhotoSlider]

Desin,

Apologies if my posts come across as patronizing and less than useful. Indeed I miss those glorious days in Kiev dearly.

[PhotoSlider]

For example, telling how much it cost and where was the girl found will give perspective of the amount of money required for that specific service in that timeframe, and by picking up other information from other posts that relate to the prices the reader can make an approximate estimates of how much money he should be ready to spent, if he wanted something like that to be done today.

Where to find doesn't matter much. Girls are everywhere. Even the initial investment is not that critical.

Whoever says language unimportant is wrong. One has better chances with semi-pro or civilians when communication is at the deeper level. Besides you are not treated as a sex tourist.

Sure I have friends visiting Kiev regularly only with English, and strictly for rented love. But they visit periodically, and establish reliable contacts, subsequently with better quality of service. Girls got to have fun too, and entertainment is enjoyed together. No secret.

Major factor is time. If you think Mamba is a waste of effort, then you approach Kiev girls from the consumer's point of view. And Kiev girls don't care. They think differently. Unless you want a quick fuck from an overpriced pro at the Arena City or Rio or mediocre encounter in the corner bedroom of a club or an agency apartment, you shouldn't bother going to Kiev. The industry for our hobby is marketed perfectly over there, but it is not designed to please the visitor. It is designed to maximize the profit. Dream factory.

Where else in the world? It depends on you before seeking any advice. Wishful thinking leads to unjustified expenses. At least you are honest in your expectations, Desin. Helps to make a decision.

For myself personally Kiev is top 3 destination worldwide, and not just for hobby. Considering that I am native speaker, it is the only one I consider.

[Nero6]

I have not been in Kiev for long time. I just talk with a local friend from Kiev he told me that there are military control at the access roads to Kiev now. He also said that people start to go to the mountains and countryside now (and make a plan to leave the city very fast). And that people are more scared now than for just 10-12 day's ago (because that Russia now have send warships into The Black Sea and that new satellite pictures show that the Russian army have trops at the border between Belarus and Ukraine very close to Kiev.

My friend told me there are a other atmosphere there now than just for 1 week ago.

Be careful if you go to Ukraine at this moment.

[PhotoSlider]

So the last summer, when there were loads of Arabs in Kiev, might be very different from next summer.

Arabs will stay. They bring much needed cash, that's why the government eased their travel.

How many girls do you need? I am satisfied with alternating 3, up to 5. Sourcing them from hourly agencies, Rio, GIA in the past, massage places, barber shops, anywhere, and then friends of those girls. I used to pay GIA prices, and then didn't see the need. One GIA girl referenced me to her roommate, and while that new one was less refined, I had her for 5-9 hours, including greek, for a total of 2000 UAH. I would say she was about 7, not exactly intelligent, yet passionate in bed, and I thoroughly enjoyed our time together.

Desin, let me give you one of my easy sources. It is very time consuming, but I enjoy the process of seduction.

What is the massage price in Kiev? I don't even look at the menu, as my objective is not to have a hand job, but rather make an acquaintance, get her phone number. And I am not limited by 1 private dance at the strip club, I have full hour, and much more contact with the beauty. A good girl would tell me what she prefers. Usually 1500-1900 UAH total, and I do not ask what's included. I don't care, as with one of them eventually I will get everything, including full service, which is not even on the menu while on premises.

Again, I do not let them touch my private parts. My sperm can be utilized in a more efficient manner. Instead I offer to give them massage, and being bored to death most of them are thrilled. With more than half of the girls it progresses to DATY before they realize how sneaky I am. One girl out of 5 agrees to meet somewhere else. I offer it only to those I qualify through our conversation as worthy candidates. I speak 5 languages.

The easiest is to ask if she is available for an outcall and offer to pay her directly, cutting out the management. But that part can be tricky, and I surely don't want to be perceived as a creep. One of them I offered a lunch or dinner. I asked her for a category of a restaurant that she likes: sushi or seafood in general is great. I make the decision where to go. If she doesn't show up, I eat solo. Her loss.

I am genuinely interested in learning more about that young lady's personality. And I don't ever raise the subject of sex. That helps me to get full service eventually in a more natural non-professional way. Since I have a few girls to keep me busy, I am not eager to escalate it. Girls expect me pressing them for sex, as they are bombarded with offers through Instagram and at work, but I don't. Their curiosity makes them flirt more intensely, as they try to leverage their power over me, and eventually we end up in bed.

Sure along the way I spend money, but I can afford GIA, and I can certainly afford country girls from massage parlors. I identify their true needs, and I am not associated with gold diggers anyway.

How much do I pay for their company? It averages out to about 10 bucks an hour with the best girls of GIA caliber, if we are talking days together. On a few hours date it is no more than 1000 UAH / hour. One of the girls had a fixed price of 3000 uah per date plus moderate expenses along the way.

Ultimately it's my time. Admittedly this will not work for many. It does for me.

Asking a massage girl in Kiev about a quick fuck offering her 70-120 bucks ain't going to work. No offense meant, Desin.

[PhotoSlider]

For money.

For sure! What else is there? Certainly not for me being a Brad Pitt look-alike.

My reports and memoirs provide more of a methodology, pursuing members not to waste time while having unrealistic expectations. I am definitely not a guide, taking anybody by the hand. For all I care, my posts can be ignored. No hard feelings. And thank you for respectfully explaining your aspirations, Desin.

Student girls for 70-120? That'd be my youth, many decades ago, except I didn't pay. I was a DJ, and life was different. No complaints about now either.

If intuition tells me Kiev is not a good match- I wouldn't go. 2-3 weeks is a minimum stay to find some. By the end of the week 2 real opportunities start to shape up and materialize beyond the quick fuck. 6 weeks is great, and then visit 3-4 times a year. If I cannot, then forget them university girls and all. I'd be treated as an ATM terminal.

[Desin]

Reading these posts would make more sense if there were prices and sources of pick up included.

The thrill is in the hunt, in proving to myself that I can find gorgeous females willing to spend great time with me.

For money.

My point was that even though this is a forum into which people can write down their memoirs of past moments of glory, by adding some information into the post would make them something else that just another "oh I once did this"-story, without any informational value. For example, telling how much it cost and where was the girl found will give perspective of the amount of money required for that specific service in that timeframe, and by picking up other information from other posts that relate to the prices the reader can make an approximate estimates of how much money he should be ready to spent, if he wanted something like that to be done today.

If something was 100 dollars five years ago, then maybe it's 300 dollars today. This kind of information is useful for the traveller. It will help to build up a mental "index", which will help to determine which girls in Mamba for example are really pushing over the line, and which are in reasonable parameters.

Misterxxx provided informative post in this regard.

The time spent on Mamba trying to find girls that would accept 120 dollars is in my opinion wasted. If one is ready to pay 200,250 or 300 for an hour, then it can be worthwhile. But of course, the current situation is something that can influence the prices in short and possible long term also, depending on the outcome of the situation. So the last summer, when there were loads of Arabs in Kiev, might be very different from next summer.

In terms of other things such as accommodation and food, I found Kiev to be very affordable place to enjoy a holiday.

If people have recommendations of other destinations with similar properties in EU or near it. Safety, lots of city to walk around, affordableness and availability of non-pro / semi-pro student girls around the price range of 70-120 dollars for an incall hour. I would be interested to hear.