Kyiv

[NightOwl69]

private dances and erotic massages at the strip clubs. What do you get and how far can you go, what's allowed? Do they have CCTV

My experience in Kiev is only at club Rio, so there is no massage here. As for the dance there are rules of sort, greenly speaking you can touch the girl everywhere except down under. That is been said, some girls break the rules and do much more that is not included in the menu (you can PM for details and names if you wish), so I guess it depends on the girl and you, some girls I was told they are really cold and unfriendly I found them to be the opposite. If the girl like you I guess she will do more. Some other girls get strict with the rules even when you had her at your apparent before and she knows she is going back with you after the dance still follow the rules. You can fuck her half an hour later but you can't kiss during the dance. Go figure.

Cheers.

[InsomniacTales]

I'm still intrigued though. What are peoples recent experiences with private dances and erotic massages at the strip clubs. What do you get and how far can you go, what's allowed? Do they have CCTV running in the booths and back rooms? I'd read that clubs get shut down if they're found actually selling sex on site and I guess that goes for BJJ's too. Or does it?

Totally agree! It's so hard to get in contact with the natural and normal girls if you don't speak Russian! I only speak some words and they like it but it's always the same: If I see a girl I like, she almost never speaks English! Only the spoiled Sukaswith Iphone and Prada speak English and those I don't want. Haha. When I meet nice girls who speak at least some good English they always tell me: learn Russian and you will find so many nice girls here.

In terms of Dolls, I have been there a couple of times and it was always empty! Just about 10 girls and not really good ones. And yes, it's way to dark inside there. I never do Private Dances and never invite girls for drinks at Rio. So you save a lot of money. 200 Griwna entrance and 7 Euro for a Rum Cola is not too much to see about 60-80 girls you can choose from. Next time you come to Kiev try Rio. When you enter ask for the lower basement area. For me it's the best one. Normally the new girls have to start dancing in the basement and those are the ones I like. VIP area for my taste is not good as so many chubby girls. Always good to give the manager 100 Griwna (only if Rio is crowded!) so he will take about you and don't ignore you.

But as the other ISD fellow wrote, check the girl at your table from face to face because it's dark in those clubs! I always add to the "walk of shame" (from Lobby to elevator) the "walk of truth"! The walk of truth is when you enter a 5 star Hotel elevator which has bright light! I remember a girl from Dubai who looked so gorgeous in the club but in the elevator I noticed she was full of acne and pimples.

[Tomek123]

Have you tried Latvia? Lithuania? Belarus? Hungary? Slovakia? Poland? Estonia? Iceland was supposedly a paradise 5 years ago, but I did not make it. Even Finland, but in Finland it is not for your money. They are very open minded and do not dress so sexy, but once naked, look the same.

I spent 20 years in my 38 age life in Russia and Ukraine. My mother is an ethnic Russian, father Pole. But the differences between Western and post-Soviet Slavic women really really big. Many Western men is hard to understand. They're just beings from another planet. Western man think-this Natasha from Kiev, she is so cool, beautiful. And I'm just a teacher at the college in a small Finnish town. Western man lives in a structured and caste society, and beautiful women know their value. Does this mean that a simple Italian plumber and man-builder can not fuck the beautiful Italian girl? Naturally, it can fuck. Why not. But on the whole society is structured- beautiful (Western) girls for successful (Western) men, . Ukrainian society is not so much structured. There is chaos, it's eclectic. I knew in 1996-97 a blond girl, very beautiful, 20 age, from Kharkov, she was fucking with very very rich people, corrupt officials have tens of millions of dollars, but she was madly in love with my friend. He worked for a bad guy for $ 300 a month. It was a lot of money back then. Haha. A country of paradoxes.

Sometimes I do not understand it. Despite the fact that mentally I stayed Russian and Ukrainian, not Polen. Poland has become very Westernized, very pragmatic. The man has no value there such as Ukraine or Russia. He is not entitled to raise a hand against a woman. He must give her all his property. He has to endure her infidelity. We in Poland are now many want to find a wife in Ukraine.

Many have mistresses in Ukraine. (Near Polish border).

After Ukraine and Russia I'm it was very difficult to get used to the new realities. But the most important difference in the West-it's the law, LAW its all. Law its great power. Is the power of West.

But be careful, guys. In Kharkov (this 1,5 mln. Town my favorite students,pussy land, in recent years a lot in nightclubs drunk students -Arabs from Syria, Jordan, Egypt. This its no great problem, but In some clubs a lot of them. Especially in inexpensive clubs for students near students hostels in Akademgorodok. These guys almost do not go to school. They just get paid money professors for evaluation. Not so long ago my old friend told me a story about how these Arabs, students, staged a drunken brawl and fight in club and later hit a bottle on the head of the police. Bottle smashed and slashed his skin. These guys \ cops were furious after these Arabs were released after 3 days! They can kill this guy, It was a sea of blood. This attempt on the life of police. Peoples say that they (Arabs) have given a bribe of several thousand dollars. Monstrous corruption in Ukraine.

In addition, many nice women 30-40 age and girls 18-25 ages from the province even in the capital (Kiev) can not find a normal job. Yes, in Kiev many job. But what kind of work? Money that she took out of the house very quickly come to an end in Kiev.

It remains several options-

1) Three girls rented an apartment. It's a nightmare but many live for 1-2 years. (they hope to find a good job or Kiev Man-husband).

2) beautiful girl can find a good office or secretary job in Kiev, but 95 percent probability that it will be forced to suck dick. And she will need to show your boss oral art. But some of them are successful and receive gifts-luxury car, coats and even apartments in center Kiev. (Rich in Ukraine sometimes like showy gestures and actions -yes, I m I'm cool boy! I'm bought his mistress apartment! But the problem is that a lot of competition among the girls.

It is a matter of luck and only of luck. Why in Ukraine is popular sex with Americans and Europeans? Of course, money. Yes, but as they are respectful to women. This sex-money is safe. She does not risk its reputation. Ukrainian wealthy and rich guy likes to tell everyone -Friday I fucked this beautiful blonde in the my sauna. Oh my God, it sucks, its devil. I came in her mouth, I give her 100 USD and I told her that I could be a regular sponsor haha.

But if the girl lives in a town like Sumy and Poltava (270-300 000 peoples)? Risk its reputation. Why it is needed? Of course, better to fuck with Americans.

[AColonizer]

Do you mean you got swallow blowjobs?

Salon Dolly is behind the Golden Gate, not really behind the Opera.

But IMHO Salon Dolly has been dead for a few years now.

7 years ago it was one of the top reasons to go to Kiev.

[LuisVega11]

Have you tried Latvia? Lithuania? Belarus? Hungary? Slovakia? Poland? Estonia? Iceland was supposedly a paradise 5 years ago, but I did not make it. Even Finland, but in Finland it is not for your money. They are very open minded and do not dress so sexy, but once naked, look the same.

Latvia= most of girl hates foreigners, really hates. And Latvia men hates too.

Lithuania= better than Latvia. Used to love Vilnius and Kaunas but difficult to score than Kiev.

Belarus= why go there if I can go Kiev without visa? People less open minded, English speaking girl less than Kiev, attitude more Russian than Ukrainian style. I will visit anyway like Moscow this year.

Hungary= level much lower than Kiev. Good place but not so friendly people, man especially and girl difficult.

Slovakia= never been.

Poland= love Polish people. I will be back sure. Level beauty much lower than Ukraine. But less materialistic attitude.

Estonia= Europe now.

[LuisVega11]

Have you tried Latvia? Lithuania? Belarus? Hungary? Slovakia? Poland? Estonia? Iceland was supposedly a paradise 5 years ago, but I did not make it. Even Finland, but in Finland it is not for your money. They are very open minded and do not dress so sexy, but once naked, look the same.

I had Lithuania period and then Poland period. Visit most of the country in east.

Kiev for me is unique. Now is more difficult, but I think mostly is due to my attitude frost week when I arrive from my country.

It's like a football player who can't deliver first matches but who he got trained well he plays better.

Probably as per day success I had much more success in Poland, but Kiev for me is something unique. The attitude of girl, the level of beauty. It's like a drug with good and bad.

The level of beauty in Kiev is not comparable with Scandinavian country. Never been to Finland but doubt they are same level aesthetically.

[Xlucre]

My first sex in Kiev, many nice girl love anal sex! One hour = 20 y. E. This is anal, oral! I have many foto.

[Stevie69]

Have you tried Latvia? Lithuania? Belarus? Hungary? Slovakia? Poland? Estonia? Iceland was supposedly a paradise 5 years ago, but I did not make it. Even Finland, but in Finland it is not for your money. They are very open minded and do not dress so sexy, but once naked, look the same.

I'm 39 good looking speak english and some Russian. I m not talking about fucking girl every day. But I can sometimes find 18-20 years old girl I flirt with chat and date, now less easily than before, in a month it happens 2 3 times, sometimes more. Find me another place in Europe where it's possible. Where I live if I approach a girl of 22 years she look me like a criminal.

[Tomek123]

I'm not clearly understanding.

Are you saying "Tons of young EE (other East European countries) dudes in western cities (in Ukraine) with good jobs" are available in Kiev, so the prostitutes in Kiev are just happy with them?

I was actually talking about regular girls, not prostitutes, on mamba, but are you saying the same goes with regular girls?

But the devaluation of the currency is just a recent thing, and it should be now more difficult for anybody who work for Ukrainian companies (even in western cities) to go abroad for vacation, for example.

Maybe. But do not forget that many beautiful girls from the province dream to stay and live in Kiev. They have to rent a house in the capital.

[Tomek123]

These club are the worst for me in Kiev. I sometimes went there but never liked the atmosphere.

Kiev after 23 is dead apart Saturday.

1- no money.

2-no middle class.

3-work work work. We don't realize that Kiev is like any cities in the world, people work 6 of 7 days. Many double work to try make money. Most of the girl that only lived with nightlife are abroad.

My suggestion Kiev is only daytime game, get up early and do your work everywhere, but not like monkey or impolitely, just try to find contact during day. If you don't have a meeting for night go in bed early you save money and energy for daytime.

Yes, but do not forget that many beautiful girls from the province dream to stay and live in Kiev. They have to rent a house in the capital. Their salaries in Kiev, enough for only apartment. And still need to buy food, cosmetics. So the girls are forced to seek contacts with foreigners.

Especially girls from other cities. Clubs and Cafe is a good place for it.

[LuisVega11]

Hi,

You also say nightlife is dead. It totally was. With friends there we had nowhere to go mid week for a normal light out. The only places open were Shooters Forsage and Caribbean and they were flooded with men. Shooters the ratio was about 6 men to 1 girl at 1 am and the girls were rough. In Caribbean mid week it was similar and the women older, like an old British hospital social club but with many more men. Forsage, I think if you're over 30 then don't bother with that one. And more men than women there too on a Wednesday. And that's with the students all back from their hols.

These club are the worst for me in Kiev. I sometimes went there but never liked the atmosphere.

Kiev after 23 is dead apart Saturday.

1- no money.

2-no middle class.

3-work work work. We don't realize that Kiev is like any cities in the world, people work 6 of 7 days. Many double work to try make money. Most of the girl that only lived with nightlife are abroad.

My suggestion Kiev is only daytime game, get up early and do your work everywhere, but not like monkey or impolitely, just try to find contact during day. If you don't have a meeting for night go in bed early you save money and energy for daytime.

[InsomniacTales]

Hi,

You also say nightlife is dead. It totally was. With friends there we had nowhere to go mid week for a normal light out. The only places open were Shooters Forsage and Caribbean and they were flooded with men. Shooters the ratio was about 6 men to 1 girl at 1 am and the girls were rough. In Caribbean mid week it was similar and the women older, like an old British hospital social club but with many more men. Forsage, I think if you're over 30 then don't bother with that one. And more men than women there too on a Wednesday. And that's with the students all back from their hols.

I try to clear some point.

1- go in Kiev for pay girl is totally useless not only for those who pay but also bad for those who has never paid.

2- Kiev is filled with cheap tourist from all over the world, do to cheap prices.

3- Kiev is filled with thousand of eastern Ukrainian people, they are contrary to Kiev and western Ukrainian, less polite less happy and open minded.

4- 2+3 that's why girl don't react well if stopped in the street like before. Yesterday I stop the super cute girl, a sweet person and she explained me that form morning till 14 10 people stopped them, 3 foreigners and 7 Ukrainian. The foreigners all offered her money for sex, one 500 euro. You understand now why they are fucked up? Because there are people coming from all over the world and acting like monkey, not like normal person. I hope some nationalist from Kiev will direct their attention to this phenomenon, and maybe after some beating tourist with this idea of woman will think twice before stopping every girl and asking sex for money.

5- if you are old or ugly you only will pay. There are full of nice looking Ukrainians, while a young girl will come to you? Simply she will only for money, and a lot if they are very good..

[Sorbonne]

Barba,

Girls at massage salons change too often. In addition I'm more into slim girls. Haha. But best experience is always Salon Dolly and I have seen yesterday (sometimes I drop by there as it is just behind the opera now) some that could fit your targets. Another good salon is Hotmassage, nicer girls but 1.000 Griwna for one hour for outcall.

Salon Dolly is behind the Golden Gate, not really behind the Opera.

But IMHO Salon Dolly has been dead for a few years now.

7 years ago it was one of the top reasons to go to Kiev.

[InsomniacTales]

I have to agree with you on points 2 and 9 which I also heard about. Overheard a loud conversation in a cafe where a 50 something man with a mustache and a belly and a striking resemblance to a recently deposed dictator shouting beckoning some 20 somethings over shouting 'come to me, come here, I am from Canada, I can help you'. The girls weren't impressed. But that's what I mean. The place has been thoroughly flogged. I have to disagree on the age point. A good looking fit 39 year old with a bit of money and charm can easily date a nice 20 something in London, and in my opinion far more easily than in Kiev and with less of the confusion about whether or not she's a non working girl or its money up front, pay as you go etc (it's always commercial eventually. One form or other!)

I try to clear some point.

1- go in Kiev for pay girl is totally useless not only for those who pay but also bad for those who has never paid.

2- Kiev is filled with cheap tourist from all over the world, do to cheap prices.

3- Kiev is filled with thousand of eastern Ukrainian people, they are contrary to Kiev and western Ukrainian, less polite less happy and open minded.

4- 2+3 that's why girl don't react well if stopped in the street like before. Yesterday I stop the super cute girl, a sweet person and she explained me that form morning till 14 10 people stopped them, 3 foreigners and 7 Ukrainian. The foreigners all offered her money for sex, one 500 euro. You understand now why they are fucked up? Because there are people coming from all over the world and acting like monkey, not like normal person. I hope some nationalist from Kiev will direct their attention to this phenomenon, and maybe after some beating tourist with this idea of woman will think twice before stopping every girl and asking sex for money.

5- if you are old or ugly you only will pay. There are full of nice looking Ukrainians, while a young girl will come to you? Simply she will only for money, and a lot if they are very good..

[LuisVega11]

Hi,

Fair point on pricey London. My comment was just my personal opinion on meeting non working girls in Kiev. As an average bloke who's quite chatty I find it much easier to chat, flirt and date in practically every other city compared to Kiev. In Kiev everyone is so wary of non Russian speaking foreigners and the place has been saturated and flogged to death by swarms of sex tourists. The girls seem to have heard and seen it all and they've no doubt the same access to the hype on the Internet as we have. Some are almost on a mission to prove they aren't the stereotype that's so hyped. And as someone says on this thread, they know what they're worth in the international context. They've often traveled abroad and they are not just waiting to be 'saved' by a foreigner. In fact, many are happy to put up with the tough years and live in Ukraine near their parents and families. Event the most hardened prosis make weekly visits to far flung villages to see elderly parents and grandparents. The 'Ukrainian men are all drunks' and 'I can't find a local boyfriend' is date site marketing and a total nonsense. As for Rio, sure, heard lots about it and it sounds like it may be the best of the lot but I was so jaded after my Dolls experience that I abandoned them altogether for the rest of my stay.

I'm 39 good looking speak english and some Russian. I'm not talking about fucking girl every day. But I can sometimes find 18-20 years old girl I flirt with chat and date, now less easily than before, in a month it happens 2 3 times, sometimes more. Find me another place in Europe where it's possible. Where I live if I approach a girl of 22 years she look me like a criminal.