Kyiv

[Member #4491]

My current question is about the price range I should be willing to offer for such an arrangement. I want it to be fair but reasonable.

There are so many parameters to take into consideration in a response to this question. How you look. How fun or square you are. What history the girl has. How blonde she is (try 500 USD on a few pretty blondes on Mamba and see what I mean). Will you play the future card or will you be you honest and tell her that it is end & goodbye when you leave. And so on. You get the picture.

Say you take your time and find someone that did not yet develop resentment and cynicism with regards to men, and is not considering herself a super model. A pretty and down to earth student, IT student, translator, teacher, cashier, etc, that is good looking but where some of the beauty comes from her personality rather than emulating some idea of how women should look to be "a perfect ten". Based on my experience somewhere around 200-400 USD per month will make a huge difference for most, and keep her coming back with a smile. I have had girlfriends that I would just give some occasional help and then just pay for entertainment, and some "girlfriends" where I would "pay for the taxi" with a 100 dollar bill every now and then.

Globally a semi pro to pro shag almost always boils down to 100 USD plus / minus 50%. So 50-150 USD will get you a good evening in most corners of the world. With some repeat discount, you will be below 400 USD with your scheme, at least until you both "fall in love" and the real drain starts. God forbid you get the idea to marry her, because that is when you really can say goodbye to the 100 USD per shag rate. LOL.

Some of these 100 USD plus / minus 50% females will be ugly and others will be super hot. There is a level of correlation between look and price, yet occasionally universe surprise us and throw in that hope giving unspoiled super hoe at just the same rate that we had the latex smelling hard core not-at-all-like-her-pictures hoe the evening before. We feel blessed and immediately make confused plans for some sort of relationship with her to secure future access to that honey cave, and then once we shot our load a few times more in the super twat, we give less of a fuck and call a mate for a beer instead.

Maybe it is all about saturation, but I have noticed that the more years a punter play this game, the faster he tend to start to fiddle with the phone to get Miss Super Vixen in a taxi and get his own ass in another taxi heading to wherever his good mate is meeting him. Very few old timers will ask you if a shared girl spent 2 or 3 hours for X USD. Some guys are just suckers for attention, the love game or whatever format the self stroking takes, but sooner or later almost all mongers will start to separate the act of sex from the act of nurturing that big ugly disturbed baby called ego. The uniqueness of the experience itself becomes central and the quantification of the experience or the service providers exterior fades into irrelevance.

Some guys are into numbers and grading looks and body. Others, me included, just sample more or less all that comes their way. Top model or average next door girl with small tits and a big ass, does not matter so much in the bigger picture. I am yet to read about the man who lays on his death bed regretting fucking too many women, be it 6, 8 or 9,63 on the global hoe normalization gradation. IMHO numbers and gradations of reality is just opinions at best, and mean nothing in the big scheme. Honestly, what good is an opinion on your death bed? Useless, so why would it matter 4 or 40 years before ones transition?

In any case, the short answer is: offer her 300 USD when the time is right, but don't be too instrumental about it all. Take it as it comes and develop report before you start to discuss an agreement. You will meet plenty of lovely devs when you have arrived, so do not rush into something that will later transform into a limitation.

Sorry for the waffle. Peace.

B

[LuisVega11]

I agree.

Let's just remind inexperienced naive would be mongers in Kiev that there are no 9's or 10's under the broad daylght.

Only in the darkness you think you found 9's or 10's. (LOL).

If there's a 9, you'll be paying through your nose. Like some senior member wrote before that Ukrainian women know what they are worth.

You might as well stay home because it'll be cheaper and you'll save on airfare and accommodation.

Mongering in Kiev is generally hard, hard work if you are trying to find semi-pros / amatuers at reasonable price, I. E. Not tourist price.

Most of them are 5's to 7's.

And there are no 9's or 10's there IMHO. I consider myself very, very lucky if I ever find a 8. Even after you weed out the chubby and old ones, there's always something don't look right. Face, tits little smaller or too small, legs not straight, too thin, body not proportional, shape of ass not quite right, too short (less than 166 to 170 cm).

Most of these semi-pros / amatuers do lousy, lousy blow-jobs and very briefly because they don't like to suck on cocks..

7?

Are you serious?

Have you ever been to top place in Kiev? Like Cerebro or some city beach outside the city?

I visit 5 apartments there was only a girl worth 7, the rest chubby and with sad face.

Anal is pretty common in Kiev. Or I had many anal in the past with girl, but they were long time relation.

The problem in Kiev is that girl if like you really, not for money, are probably the best working girl in the world, rarely saying no, if you pay the service.

Are limited and mostly technical, with good looking girl.

I only had very few paid experience in the years, I remember sometime taking girl from vodka bar or other venue at end of night and they where super fuck.

But there was alcohol a night of fun and the sex.

Mamba apartment. This is not Kiev sex, this is industrial chain.

[LuisVega11]

I will say after 3 weeks is completely dead thanks ti all those Amy of sex tourist overpaying, the economic crisis who has destroyed all the middle class it was till one years ago.

And the fly of thousand of girl from city, especially those more open minded to west culture and speaking good English.

Once it was easy to find great girl open, funny, goo attitude.

Those who consider foreigners are only the prostitute, and if not they all need a lot of attention and money. Most are people without any helps from anybody, salary down m inflation, everything contributes to a situation where even the best person will soon ask for help.

I don't blame them and I feel ashamed I couldn't help some girl I had a relation in the past but it's clear that they will need forever money, and when you stop helping they stop fucking.

They are also not to be blamed cause really the quality and level of people coming in this country has fallen down. Tons of poor Arab, poor countrymen from any country.

Dressed in the most bizarre manner I have ever seen, those cute girl who walk with those old European that make the Ukrainians looks like Richard here. Really terrible.

Time to look for another country, maybe more expensive but where you can really act a free mongering, I mean not paying in advance for sex, with good quality.

Personally I don't understand why people come here to pay. Most of the girl that work as prostitute are not even near the 5, I mean those who ask the price you read here. For good very good quality you spent more than some western country.

Anyway game over as far as me. Maybe in two years with a change of situation and a gryvna back to 10 it will get back a normal place, now is really something terrible.

[PeeTeePeet]

You are right. Quality for the same buck has gone down a lot since 2011. Specially last couple of years it is becoming more and more difficult to locate an overall attractive package (looks wise), and almost impossible to get perfect looks and perfect service unless you are willing to spend about 7 x or 8 x the going rate for the rank and file (5's and 6's).

The economy being down is not helping either with prices at the very high end. There is enough of limited market for limited supply in that category.

It is lot of work, good grooming and looks, to score anything semi-pro or amateur.

Wish it was 2010 and 2011 again!

Peter.

I agree.

Let's just remind inexperienced naive would be mongers in Kiev that there are no 9's or 10's under the broad daylght.

Only in the darkness you think you found 9's or 10's. (LOL).

If there's a 9, you'll be paying through your nose. Like some senior member wrote before that Ukrainian women know what they are worth.

You might as well stay home because it'll be cheaper and you'll save on airfare and accommodation.

Mongering in Kiev is generally hard, hard work if you are trying to find semi-pros / amateurs at reasonable price, I. E. Not tourist price.

Most of them are 5's to 7's.

And there are no 9's or 10's there IMHO. I consider myself very, very lucky if I ever find a 8. Even after you weed out the chubby and old ones, there's always something don't look right. Face, tits little smaller or too small, legs not straight, too thin, body not proportional, shape of ass not quite right, too short (less than 166 to 170 cm)..

[Horny Monger]

I read the last reports and according to the wording of the text, I think this thread has become a den of pimps telling marketing-oriented tales in order to attract inexperienced men in Kiev.

I agree.

Let's just remind inexperienced naive would be mongers in Kiev that there are no 9's or 10's under the broad daylght.

Only in the darkness you think you found 9's or 10's. (LOL).

If there's a 9, you'll be paying through your nose. Like some senior member wrote before that Ukrainian women know what they are worth.

You might as well stay home because it'll be cheaper and you'll save on airfare and accommodation.

Mongering in Kiev is generally hard, hard work if you are trying to find semi-pros / amatuers at reasonable price, I. E. Not tourist price.

Most of them are 5's to 7's.

And there are no 9's or 10's there IMHO. I consider myself very, very lucky if I ever find a 8. Even after you weed out the chubby and old ones, there's always something don't look right. Face, tits little smaller or too small, legs not straight, too thin, body not proportional, shape of ass not quite right, too short (less than 166 to 170 cm).

Most of these semi-pros / amatuers do lousy, lousy blow-jobs and very briefly because they don't like to suck on cocks.

For good blow-jobs, you'll be much better off going to pros and you'll save tons of time, which means money because it costs money for accommodation each day.

And no anal unless she is a pro.

A final note: as a couple of senior members have pointed out that Ukrainian women even at young age, are already high mileaged.

[Jojosun]

Mamba, flirt, love. Mail. Ru, wamba, and polovinka.com.ua plus few others use the same database and you can login using the same account to any of them. I am not sure why some would will show on one not the other though.

Cheers.

Thanks for the info. As I said earlier this was the case back in 2009.

[ShklarSky]

I have a question that relates to an earlier one that has already been helpfully answered by Barba and Nightowl69.

The earlier question was where to look for semi-pro or non-pro to sponsor during my 3-4 month stay in Kiev and the possible strategies for weeding out the pros masquerading as non-pros.

My current question is about the price range I should be willing to offer for such an arrangement. I want it to be fair but reasonable.

I am thinking of two possible arrangements: one where the sponsorette actually stays with me and we have sex daily, the other where we agree on an x number of visits and / or outings while she keeps her own place.

I think I could live with an arrangement where we have 2 weekly meetings (a total of 4 hrs per week) without our sharing each other's space (the type of women I would be interested in are those that have regular jobs, etc. And so could find any change of residence problematic).

So, my question to those familiar with the scene: what would be a reasonable monthly allowance for a situation like this?

I could probably afford 1000 usd per month, but this seems a bit excessive given that the average salary is about 300 usd per month (and the girl's commitment would be about 16 hours or 2 full days per month).

Other than the obvious reason of frugality, I do not want to overdo it BC, first, this may set an unhealthy precedent for others and myself, and, second, she will think I am moron and won't respect me.

Please advise!

[NightOwl69]

So Mamba and Flirt are the same, but I've seen girls before (2009) who were on Flirt but not on Mamba. Hence my question.

Mamba, flirt, love. Mail. Ru, wamba, and polovinka.com.ua plus few others use the same database and you can login using the same account to any of them. I am not sure why some would will show on one not the other though.

Cheers.

[Chenin]

Good luck! 300 Uah an hour for a 8, 9 or 10? (LOL).

I doubt it if you can even get a 8 in cheap apartments; maybe you look though all these cheap apartments all year long and maybe you find one.

For poor Ukrainian men, there's a social discount card, which entitles each of them certain number of apartment visits per month and which they can get when they apply for welfare. (LOL)

There is indeed a new policy: try it and buy it if you like it. .

With current inflation, 300 uah buys you nothing. It would mean that a girl works almost for free.

Electricity is getting more and more expensive to give a simple example. What is the point to give such a talk?

[Jojosun]

There are a dozen of sites with different names, but there are all mamba...

So Mamba and Flirt are the same, but I've seen girls before (2009) who were on Flirt but not on Mamba. Hence my question.

[InsomniacTales]

Does anybody have recent experience of an erotic massage or private dance at Dolls? I had a very disappointing massage with pants on for 1000 gr paid up front and even though I had made it clear I didn't want a happy ending as I wanted to do more later elsewhere, I still wanted a full erotic body to body massage. The girl just lay next to me albeit naked and gently scratched my back! In St Petersburg for that money I got body to body oil massage and full 'in time' touching just short of sex. I went for it at Dolls only because I had heard that some others in the summer had got much more in there in the private dances and clubs back rooms, even when not paying for a happy ending. Up to date info and tips appreciated. Perhaps Rio and Mandarin are better?

[Horny Monger]

Good luck! 300 Uah an hour for a 8, 9 or 10? (LOL).

I doubt it if you can even get a 8 in cheap apartments; maybe you look though all these cheap apartments all year long and maybe you find one.

For poor Ukrainian men, there's a social discount card, which entitles each of them certain number of apartment visits per month and which they can get when they apply for welfare. (LOL)

it is still possible to find sometimes a 7 or a 8 in a cheap apartment. However do you think that the group that manages all these apartments are going to be generous and thinking of giving the beauties for a very low price to the poor Ukrainian men? Moreover you can see how much money they are going to lose if you can get a 8, 9 or 10 for 300 Uah an hour. Is the mafia in Ukraine a social institution that thinks that every Ukrainian man has the right to get sex with a beauty? They keep the beauties for VIP apartments and if you go there, either Ukrainian or tourists, you will pay the same price.

[Horny Monger]

I doubt there are any 10's in VIP apartments.

Maybe the darkness in those apartments makes 9's or 10's. (LOL).

Moreover you can see how much money they are going to lose if you can get a 8, 9 or 10 for 300 Uah an hour. Is the mafia in Ukraine a social institution that thinks that every Ukrainian man has the right to get sex with a beauty? They keep the beauties for VIP apartments and if you go there, either Ukrainian or tourists, you will pay the same price.

Furthermore in the apartments we usually go for a price of 700-1200 an hour, there are also Ukrainian men and they pay that price too. Why they don't go to the cheapest apartments? That's because they don't want to waste a full day?

[Volpone]

I think those prices are real, but for locals, not foreigners.

And the other comment might be correct, in theory. One way to fix the economy is to bring foreigners into the country to spend their hard currency. However, unless you have a travel agency, there is not guarantee that any of that money will come specifically to you. Is it reasonable to think that someone is so altruistic as to attract people to the country for that reason?

Stevie69, I think you are right in the way, it is still possible to find sometimes a 7 or a 8 in a cheap apartment. However do you think that the group that manages all these apartments are going to be generous and thinking of giving the beauties for a very low price to the poor Ukrainian men? Moreover you can see how much money they are going to lose if you can get a 8, 9 or 10 for 300 Uah an hour. Is the mafia in Ukraine a social institution that thinks that every Ukrainian man has the right to get sex with a beauty? They keep the beauties for VIP apartments and if you go there, either Ukrainian or tourists, you will pay the same price.

Furthermore in the apartments we usually go for a price of 700-1200 an hour, there are also Ukrainian men and they pay that price too. Why they don't go to the cheapest apartments? That's because they don't want to waste a full day?

Now I do think that some private girls that works independently and they have nothing to do with the groupe that manages all these apartement will agree for a low price and some of them could be very pretty. It's a bit like on mamba. Some girls are really pretty and you can get them for a low price.

[Volpone]

Are the 2 sites the same?

Haven't used either site for a while.

There are a dozen of sites with different names, but there are all mamba.

You can try this one too: www.love.com.ua.