Kyiv

[Webvantage]

LJ,

I have told you before but I will tell you again, thank you for your detailed posts. Most of us that are planning our first trip to Ukraine do read up before we start asking questions and your recent posts are a wealth of knowledge. But I do have a question for you that I don't think I have seen the answer to yet. I know the rate for a Rio girl $300/3hr but do the girls prefer USD or UAH? I know they probably don't care as long as they get money but I am just wondering if I need to bring a stack of $100's with me or not. I usually don't travel with a large amount of USD as I like to deal mostly with local currency. Your thoughts.

[Prosal]

But I have to disagree with you slightly here, because back at home in the US, I can't even dream about dating, let alone having a one night stand, with a girl 25 years junior, as I was able to manage it in Kiev.

Right on the money. I don't know any other place than FSU where it is both socially acceptable and possible for a mid-aged guy to date and screw hot 18-22 yo girls on a regular basis.

All this raving about Rio's girls never ceases to amaze me. There are available women (freebies) ranging from cute to ridiculously hot literally everywhere in Ukraine.

[Sorbonne]

Liljoey,

" (4) If you are only into freebies, and don't care for p4p at all, you should stay home, because your own city has beautiful women also for you to pursue so why waste money to come to Kiev to pursue freebies, when you can do the same at home? Unless you simply like to travel or you love something particular about the beautiful women of Kiev, more than the beautiful women from your hometown."

But I have to disagree with you slightly here, because back at home in the US, I can't even dream about dating, let alone having a one night stand, with a girl 25 years junior, as I was able to manage it in Kiev.

[Sorbonne]

Liljoey,

"As for p4p, Kiev is unique compared to western cities in that there are many more young girls prepared to give sex for money or sponsorship, and it is a widespread practice in Kiev, making it a monger's heaven where sex with young university students is far more possible for guys who've long since graduated."

This says it all. Thanks!

[ErickMorsa]

Dear Ezyngo. By asking your question about USD or Euros you reveal that you have not read the forum even for a few months back. You may not yet have had the pleasure of being flamed with the exhortation to RTFF, but you probably soon will be if you ask questions about stuff that you could very easily have found out about by doing a little reading. I know for a fact that I have always taken pains to be specific in my posts about something like the exact currency that prices were expressed in so as to avoid confusion of newcomers to Kiev trying to get their bearings. I recommend to you to make the effort to read this thread starting at least as far back as March of this year when I started posting. The earlier reports are helpful too, but I took the time to the best of my ability to collate much of the available info into survey type reports reviewing what info was available about all the options in Kiev, just to spoon feed the information to the newbie on a silver platter. My reports pertain to the current situation in Kiev after the River Palace boat was towed away in the year 2010 and all the WG's and mongers were left to find other ways of finding each other.

Dear Stevie69. When you pull out the big guns and mention the internationally known savant, George Costanza, from the Seinfeld show, even I felt that I must defer to such a mind, which is far greater than mine.

But then I recalled that George is unemployed, and has all the time in the world to pursue an obtuse and ridiculous course of action, of circling endlessly for an unlikely parking spot, in compulsive obedience to the psychosis inflicted by his nutty parents, which is, of course, what makes him so funny to watch on TV.

Allow me to reminisce for the benefit of those readers not familiar with American television. Your quote comes from one of my favorite episodes, where George is about to back into a parking space, but because he delays doing so and continues talking to Elaine, another driver sees the parking spot and begins to nose into it head first. George, seeing this, is quick to act and succeeds in backing into the spot halfway also. So we have George Costanza backed in halfway to a parking spot, and the other driver nosed in halfway into the same spot with the front of his car. And then ensues the ridiculous but very entertaining debate involving all bystanders and even the police, on who is right, and to whom does the parking spot properly belong. This was TV situation-comedy at its best. It was during the lead up to the situation described above, while Elaine is begging George to put the car into a parking garage instead of driving around endlessly looking for a parking spot in the crowded upper west side of Manhattan, so that they don't miss the game they were going to watch at Jerry Seinfeld's apartment, that George offers the opinion you quoted in your post. George simply cannot bring himself to pay for a parking garage when it is possible to find a free spot on the street. Even under conditions where they are late for an appointment and it may take them a very long time to find such a spot in that crowded neighborhood.

Now what is interesting to me, is that Elaine's position. Which is that in a crowded neighborhood congested with vehicles where it is always unlikely to find a parking spot, that when one does not have unlimited time to keep driving in circles hoping for the unlikely miracle of finding a parking spot, such as when you are late for an appointment that you want to keep. You put the fucking car in a garage. Is the normal, prudent position which the television viewer is supposed to identify with. While George's psychotic inability to park in a paid parking garage even in such a situation when they are late, is what makes him seem funny to the rest of the world.

Yet curiously we find it is George's viewpoint that is being quoted by you, in support thereof. I find this both interesting and instructive, as it will enable the readers to descend to the crux of the debate on the topic in previous posts.

Simply stated. The reason to still consider taking girls from Rio, despite the fact that they have a 3 hour minimum date which will cost you $300 USD, is because of two reasons. (1) time efficiency and (2) higher level of beauty.

As to the first reason. Time. It is undisputed that the experiences of those reporting demonstrate that considerable patience and time must be invested in pursuing the fake picture "bait and switch" ads on mamba. Ru in order to weed through the ugly girls that show up to your doorstep and finally find a girl that is sexy looking enough to be "doable". The experience reported in this thread has been, if you keep inviting girls from mamba. Ru, eventually you will "get lucky" and encounter a girl that is adequate and doable, or even fairly attractive. But it takes time and effort. However, at a place like Rio, it is different and far more efficient. The girls are there all collected in one place for you to see, so you can choose the one that appeals to you immediately and directly, with none of the collosal time waste consumed by dealing with the "bait and switch" of internet sites like mamba. Ru.

Regarding the second reason. Beauty. At Rio there are quite a number of extremely beautiful 9's and 10's who can be had for $300 USD for their 3 hour minimum date. Yes there are girls at Rio who are less beautiful than 9's and 10's, but I'm not talking about them. The reason to go to Rio is to get a true stunner, a 9 or 10, into your bed. However, such high level of beauty girls will not be found for $100 or less on mamba. Ru or on the street, regardless of how hard or long you work at it, unless a rare miracle occurs for you.

Also, the Rio rate of $300 USD for three hours, is a net rate of $100 USD per hour, which is not a bad rate for comparison value to girls on mamba. Ru asking for 800 UAH, which is the same rate (800 UAH = $100 USD). The only difference is really the 3 hour minimum. For those who know what to do with a very beautiful woman for three hours, it is really a bargain.

So the upshot of all this can be distilled down to the following bits of advice:

(1) If you have unlimited time in Kiev, like the unemployed George Costanza, and you are not very selective about girls' looks and you are interested in p4p. Then you may wish to expend some of that time spinning your wheels trying to weed through the "bait and switch" fake pictures posted by the girls / agencies advertising on mamba. Ru or other sites until you find a girl who is sexy enough for you to have a good time. This will be a harder thing to achieve the more selective you are about girls. But if you are one of those guys who is not that selective, you will be happier sooner, because an average or slightly above average young girl, can satisfy all your carnal desires (as long as those desires don't include the fucking a supermodel fantasy) , and there are many pretty good looking young girls available for $100 USD or less on mamba. Ru. Preparations for my upcoming trip on mamba. Ru have produced many offers for 600 UAH per hour (that's $75 USD) and one 400 UAH per hour ($50 USD) , but I have no idea what these girls look like.

(2) If your time in Kiev is very limited, for example, you will be there only a few days on a weekend, and you are very selective about girls' looks and are only interested in sex with the most beautiful women. 8s. 9's and 10s only. Then you should head straight to a place like Rio where the beauties of such high caliber can be found and are right there for the picking at your whim. Logic must tell you in advance that you must be prepared to pay a little more for such a high level of experience to be delivered to you immediately every night upon your demand. But fortunately, in Kiev, the premium for this fun factor is not too steep, because a $100 USD / hour rate is possible with one of these beauties at Rio. And the rates for such high level beauties at the nightclubs are higher than Rio's rates, as it has been reported that WGs at nightclubs have been asking sums like $300. 400 USD / hour and more (I'm talking about the stunners, not the average looking WGs who can be had for less) , and may negotiate down to $200 USD / hour. I personally don't see the nightclub scene as competitive with Rio pricewise, because at Rio I can do a private dance with the girl which includes much touching, and feeling up, and sexy interaction, which enables one to gauge the chemistry with the girl, something not at all possible when meeting a WG at a nightclub. And also, whereas the total of $200 USD is less than the Rio minimum rate, and you can have sex for $200, instead of $300, it's not worth it to do the $200 option because you only get the one hour with the nightclub girl instead of the three hours with the Rio girl.

(3) if you have limited time in Kiev, and you like the idea of fucking a model type 9 or 10 beauty, but you can also get into having good sex with a 6, 7 or 8, then you should definitely do both. Go to Rio and try to snag a 9 or 10 into your bed each night, and also spend your days going through as many girls who look good enough that you can find through mamba. Ru or top-modals. Com or on the street, or in shops.

(4) If you are only into freebies, and don't care for p4p at all, you should stay home, because your own city has beautiful women also for you to pursue so why waste money to come to Kiev to pursue freebies, when you can do the same at home? Unless you simply like to travel or you love something particular about the beautiful women of Kiev, more than the beautiful women from your hometown.

As for p4p, Kiev is unique compared to western cities in that there are many more young girls prepared to give sex for money or sponsorship, and it is a widespread practice in Kiev, making it a monger's heaven where sex with young university students is far more possible for guys who've long since graduated.

For those newbies who have begun posting recently, or are in the stages of planning their first trip, there really is no substitute to reading the forum on this thread since the beginning of this year. It will open your eyes, and be of much more value to you than asking questions dealt with previously and hoping someone will answer the same thing for you again. As you go through the posts, copy and paste into a summary document the good bits of info you feel you can use, and you can review your summary document as needed to get a good understanding of what to do in Kiev. If Hunter Dave's generously detailed posts have taught you anything, it should be that advance preparation BEFORE you get to Kiev will have a great impact on your experience there and the kind of girls you will get to meet and have sex with once you get there, when it comes to girls from internet websites. So if you are looking for the lowest cost sex in Kiev, you must spend a significant amount of time getting dates set up on mamba. Ru, and then hope for the best, as to their looks, when they show up. If you need to turn the girl who shows up away because she is ugly or too unattractive to consider having sex with, don't worry, just keep trying, because eventually you will see a girl who looks good enough. And if you want to try to have sex with a 9 or 10, then hit the strip club Rio at night, to see what you can come up with. There is much detailed advice on Rio and the other p4p options in Kiev that I have posted earlier in this thread which I will not repeat here, but you can easily get to prior posts of any writer by clicking on a profile and then clicking on the link to prior posts.

LJ

This guy, is saying correctly, This is my 6th time in Ucrain, and yes, Better to go Rio, or invest time in the street only if you have it.

[LilJoey]

Is that 300-400 USD or Euros. Way to expensive either way. IMHO the fun is in the hunting for bargains and is it not what mongering about? But most of us like to take the easy way to get it.

Good days gents.

EZ

Dear Ezyngo. By asking your question about USD or Euros you reveal that you have not read the forum even for a few months back. You may not yet have had the pleasure of being flamed with the exhortation to RTFF, but you probably soon will be if you ask questions about stuff that you could very easily have found out about by doing a little reading. I know for a fact that I have always taken pains to be specific in my posts about something like the exact currency that prices were expressed in so as to avoid confusion of newcomers to Kiev trying to get their bearings. I recommend to you to make the effort to read this thread starting at least as far back as March of this year when I started posting. The earlier reports are helpful too, but I took the time to the best of my ability to collate much of the available info into survey type reports reviewing what info was available about all the options in Kiev, just to spoon feed the information to the newbie on a silver platter. My reports pertain to the current situation in Kiev after the River Palace boat was towed away in the year 2010 and all the WG's and mongers were left to find other ways of finding each other.

Dear Stevie69. When you pull out the big guns and mention the internationally known savant, George Costanza, from the Seinfeld show, even I felt that I must defer to such a mind, which is far greater than mine.

But then I recalled that George is unemployed, and has all the time in the world to pursue an obtuse and ridiculous course of action, of circling endlessly for an unlikely parking spot, in compulsive obedience to the psychosis inflicted by his nutty parents, which is, of course, what makes him so funny to watch on TV.

Allow me to reminisce for the benefit of those readers not familiar with American television. Your quote comes from one of my favorite episodes, where George is about to back into a parking space, but because he delays doing so and continues talking to Elaine, another driver sees the parking spot and begins to nose into it head first. George, seeing this, is quick to act and succeeds in backing into the spot halfway also. So we have George Costanza backed in halfway to a parking spot, and the other driver nosed in halfway into the same spot with the front of his car. And then ensues the ridiculous but very entertaining debate involving all bystanders and even the police, on who is right, and to whom does the parking spot properly belong. This was TV situation-comedy at its best. It was during the lead up to the situation described above, while Elaine is begging George to put the car into a parking garage instead of driving around endlessly looking for a parking spot in the crowded upper west side of Manhattan, so that they don't miss the game they were going to watch at Jerry Seinfeld's apartment, that George offers the opinion you quoted in your post. George simply cannot bring himself to pay for a parking garage when it is possible to find a free spot on the street. Even under conditions where they are late for an appointment and it may take them a very long time to find such a spot in that crowded neighborhood.

Now what is interesting to me, is that Elaine's position. Which is that in a crowded neighborhood congested with vehicles where it is always unlikely to find a parking spot, that when one does not have unlimited time to keep driving in circles hoping for the unlikely miracle of finding a parking spot, such as when you are late for an appointment that you want to keep. You put the fucking car in a garage. Is the normal, prudent position which the television viewer is supposed to identify with. While George's psychotic inability to park in a paid parking garage even in such a situation when they are late, is what makes him seem funny to the rest of the world.

Yet curiously we find it is George's viewpoint that is being quoted by you, in support thereof. I find this both interesting and instructive, as it will enable the readers to descend to the crux of the debate on the topic in previous posts.

Simply stated. The reason to still consider taking girls from Rio, despite the fact that they have a 3 hour minimum date which will cost you $300 USD, is because of two reasons. (1) time efficiency and (2) higher level of beauty.

As to the first reason. Time. It is undisputed that the experiences of those reporting demonstrate that considerable patience and time must be invested in pursuing the fake picture "bait and switch" ads on mamba. Ru in order to weed through the ugly girls that show up to your doorstep and finally find a girl that is sexy looking enough to be "doable". The experience reported in this thread has been, if you keep inviting girls from mamba. Ru, eventually you will "get lucky" and encounter a girl that is adequate and doable, or even fairly attractive. But it takes time and effort. However, at a place like Rio, it is different and far more efficient. The girls are there all collected in one place for you to see, so you can choose the one that appeals to you immediately and directly, with none of the collosal time waste consumed by dealing with the "bait and switch" of internet sites like mamba. Ru.

Regarding the second reason. Beauty. At Rio there are quite a number of extremely beautiful 9's and 10's who can be had for $300 USD for their 3 hour minimum date. Yes there are girls at Rio who are less beautiful than 9's and 10's, but I'm not talking about them. The reason to go to Rio is to get a true stunner, a 9 or 10, into your bed. However, such high level of beauty girls will not be found for $100 or less on mamba. Ru or on the street, regardless of how hard or long you work at it, unless a rare miracle occurs for you.

Also, the Rio rate of $300 USD for three hours, is a net rate of $100 USD per hour, which is not a bad rate for comparison value to girls on mamba. Ru asking for 800 UAH, which is the same rate (800 UAH = $100 USD). The only difference is really the 3 hour minimum. For those who know what to do with a very beautiful woman for three hours, it is really a bargain.

So the upshot of all this can be distilled down to the following bits of advice:

(1) If you have unlimited time in Kiev, like the unemployed George Costanza, and you are not very selective about girls' looks and you are interested in p4p. Then you may wish to expend some of that time spinning your wheels trying to weed through the "bait and switch" fake pictures posted by the girls / agencies advertising on mamba. Ru or other sites until you find a girl who is sexy enough for you to have a good time. This will be a harder thing to achieve the more selective you are about girls. But if you are one of those guys who is not that selective, you will be happier sooner, because an average or slightly above average young girl, can satisfy all your carnal desires (as long as those desires don't include the fucking a supermodel fantasy) , and there are many pretty good looking young girls available for $100 USD or less on mamba. Ru. Preparations for my upcoming trip on mamba. Ru have produced many offers for 600 UAH per hour (that's $75 USD) and one 400 UAH per hour ($50 USD) , but I have no idea what these girls look like.

(2) If your time in Kiev is very limited, for example, you will be there only a few days on a weekend, and you are very selective about girls' looks and are only interested in sex with the most beautiful women. 8s. 9's and 10s only. Then you should head straight to a place like Rio where the beauties of such high caliber can be found and are right there for the picking at your whim. Logic must tell you in advance that you must be prepared to pay a little more for such a high level of experience to be delivered to you immediately every night upon your demand. But fortunately, in Kiev, the premium for this fun factor is not too steep, because a $100 USD / hour rate is possible with one of these beauties at Rio. And the rates for such high level beauties at the nightclubs are higher than Rio's rates, as it has been reported that WGs at nightclubs have been asking sums like $300. 400 USD / hour and more (I'm talking about the stunners, not the average looking WGs who can be had for less) , and may negotiate down to $200 USD / hour. I personally don't see the nightclub scene as competitive with Rio pricewise, because at Rio I can do a private dance with the girl which includes much touching, and feeling up, and sexy interaction, which enables one to gauge the chemistry with the girl, something not at all possible when meeting a WG at a nightclub. And also, whereas the total of $200 USD is less than the Rio minimum rate, and you can have sex for $200, instead of $300, it's not worth it to do the $200 option because you only get the one hour with the nightclub girl instead of the three hours with the Rio girl.

(3) if you have limited time in Kiev, and you like the idea of fucking a model type 9 or 10 beauty, but you can also get into having good sex with a 6, 7 or 8, then you should definitely do both. Go to Rio and try to snag a 9 or 10 into your bed each night, and also spend your days going through as many girls who look good enough that you can find through mamba. Ru or top-modals. Com or on the street, or in shops.

(4) If you are only into freebies, and don't care for p4p at all, you should stay home, because your own city has beautiful women also for you to pursue so why waste money to come to Kiev to pursue freebies, when you can do the same at home? Unless you simply like to travel or you love something particular about the beautiful women of Kiev, more than the beautiful women from your hometown.

As for p4p, Kiev is unique compared to western cities in that there are many more young girls prepared to give sex for money or sponsorship, and it is a widespread practice in Kiev, making it a monger's heaven where sex with young university students is far more possible for guys who've long since graduated.

For those newbies who have begun posting recently, or are in the stages of planning their first trip, there really is no substitute to reading the forum on this thread since the beginning of this year. It will open your eyes, and be of much more value to you than asking questions dealt with previously and hoping someone will answer the same thing for you again. As you go through the posts, copy and paste into a summary document the good bits of info you feel you can use, and you can review your summary document as needed to get a good understanding of what to do in Kiev. If Hunter Dave's generously detailed posts have taught you anything, it should be that advance preparation BEFORE you get to Kiev will have a great impact on your experience there and the kind of girls you will get to meet and have sex with once you get there, when it comes to girls from internet websites. So if you are looking for the lowest cost sex in Kiev, you must spend a significant amount of time getting dates set up on mamba. Ru, and then hope for the best, as to their looks, when they show up. If you need to turn the girl who shows up away because she is ugly or too unattractive to consider having sex with, don't worry, just keep trying, because eventually you will see a girl who looks good enough. And if you want to try to have sex with a 9 or 10, then hit the strip club Rio at night, to see what you can come up with. There is much detailed advice on Rio and the other p4p options in Kiev that I have posted earlier in this thread which I will not repeat here, but you can easily get to prior posts of any writer by clicking on a profile and then clicking on the link to prior posts.

LJ

[Curious12]

is that 300-400 usd or euros.

300-400 usd.

[Ezyngo]

Finally, a little common sense from some of the men on the ground. It is crazy to pay 300-400 from Rio for a couple of hours, when 100-200 can be had with a little hard work. Like George Constanza once said on Seinfeld, it is like paying for parking. Why do it when with a little work you can get it for "free".

Is that 300-400 USD or Euros. Way to expensive either way. IMHO the fun is in the hunting for bargains and is it not what mongering about? But most of us like to take the easy way to get it.

Good days gents.

EZ

[Stevie69]

Finally, a little common sense from some of the men on the ground. It is crazy to pay 300-400 from Rio for a couple of hours, when 100-200 can be had with a little hard work. Like George Constanza once said on Seinfeld, it is like paying for parking. Why do it when with a little work you can get it for "free".

[Guntherus]

If the girls want to avoid being harassed by the arm of the law, they probably would not ask us to reveal their whereabouts in this forum. You ask a lot of questions. Better discuss this over a drink when I come to Kiev.

Hello, I was asking before where are TODYA the Profis or the Non Profis in Kiev center. In my past trips the places mentioned above were a good options but now seems that the girls are afraid from the Police and are hide and more discret. It seems that some of them are working with agencies which pay money to the Police to protect them. Who can confirm this? How are working these gilrs now in order to avoid Police or Agencies (very high % for this protection. Who know where is the action now a days? And how operate these girl Non Pro or without agencies?

[Sponsor74]

Hi. To help you out maybe some short advice. It's not very likely the same website will do good service on two different continents. While it is also my experience that some contacts get cold feet and won't show upp or answere, the majority was OK when using websites like Flirt, Mama, Love and Romance Russ. If paying member on these sites you can use search function and exclude those not looking for sponsors or paid sex. Even those not mentioning this still will accept a date when asked. Then you can go to Rio and probably other clubs to meet girls, find a English-speaking (sort of) taxi driver, or go outside MacDonalds at Maidan, with good looks you can approach nice girls in the stores. Good luck, happy ending for you

Hello, I was asking before where are TODYA the Profis or the Non Profis in Kiev center. In my past trips the places mentioned above were a good options but now seems that the girls are afraid from the Police and are hide and more discret. It seems that some of them are working with agencies which pay money to the Police to protect them. Who can confirm this? How are working these gilrs now in order to avoid Police or Agencies (very high % for this protection. Who know where is the action now a days? And how operate these girl Non Pro or without agencies?

[Ezyngo]

There's two great must-read threads in the Russia section, if you want to try to begin to understand Slavic women's psyche: "Dating Russian Women" and "Russian Women- Opinions and Advice".

Thank you very much for recommending this to me.

EZ

[Guntherus]

I like to use the great .

.

Can't find how to recommend this report to the Distinction-Forum. So here it is. Read it again.

[Member #4178]

I like the term.

I First visit Odessa, had phone numbers from two diferent paid websites. Ukrainedate. Com and russiancupid. Com I was collecting numbers for more then a month.

Odessa was not good as well and boring also very hot temp. so i travel to Kiev.

I bought a sim card and start to send messages. But both places and using two websites got zero results.

Next time if I wil come I will visit smaller cites or more rural one.

I may come next time for only 4 day for minimizing the damage.

I can recommand ukr appartments just book a head.

Ukraine has the potential but there is a learning curve. A better strategy needed to be developed.

The best thing is to try to charm them at restaurants, coffe shopes or at the street. I will try it next time but as I have said smaller cities may be better.

[Ezyngo]

As soon as I told them I am here, none of them came.

Two of them ask for taxi money to get to my place. I said no.

I pay 60 us dollar for nice appartment on maydan squre.

Jp

So do you have a contingency plan? Plan B, Plan C? Obviously Plan A did not work. So sorry about this. Is this the norm for Ukrainian women? Or just an isolated incident. I could not believe what I read.

Is Mayden Square close to the Clubs like Rio? I'd love to hear a report from you. Actually others too. LOL.

Thank you.

Good days gents.

EZ