Kyiv

[DramaFree11]

Good work! 1500 UAH is probably what she would have charged you, so you got it half price.

Good advice about at the door. I made that mistake a couple times during the Quarantine. Very uncomfortable if it is near you apartment. Some guys say they have no problem with this, but I do feel bad. I usually give them the benefit of the doubt, but if they are over weight or completely different photos, I say no.

[YummyPL]

Yes, the average man lasts only 5.5 minutes. Yes, I know we are all above average here, but if anyone here can last 3 hours, maybe he should be making movies and getting paid instead of paying for it.

For some of us, it is for a lot more than pumping our dicks in them for 5. 5 minutes. On Saturday, SA#4 stayed just short of 4 hours. We were kissing off and on for well over 30 minutes of that. I went down on her twice for probably 20 minutes total. She gives a nice blowjob but probably not more than 5 minutes but without me finishing. The actual sex with my dick being in her pussy was probably a total of about 20 minutes over 2 times. The rest of the time was spent cuddling, talking, touching each other, photos, drinking tea, etc.

When it comes to sex, my problem is not finishing too soon, it is being able to finish at all. Without the conversation, foreplay, kissing, touching, kissing her body, and other lead-up activities, then I could fuck until my lungs exploded and still not finish and eventually I would stop from discomfort or boredom. I would be happy if I could finish in 3 minutes sometime, but it rarely, rarely happens. For me sex is in my mind. If I don't have the foreplay triggers, then I am useless and can't finish at all. If you give me the right girl with the right foreplay, she can easily get me to finish 3 times in 3 hours if I want to (but I usually only do 2 and sometimes even 1). And that is the problem with most professionals--they treat sex as a solely physical thing without touching the mental aspects of sex and it does nothing for me. I don't practice Tantric sex as Kozerog does, but I do have my own psychology of sex.

It has been at least 10 years since I was capable of sticking my dick in a girl for 5 minutes without foreplay and reliably blowing my load no matter what her appearance was.

[PhotoSlider]

...saving money is not my goal since I can't even spend my current income. Why do people give nice gifts to people they like instead of saving the money?

This is the best!

Precisely the reason for my staying with regulars while in Kiev.

I like them. Not just sex, as great as it is. I like their classy behavior, I like how compliant yet strong minded they are. I like their independent spirit, and my personal freedom.

[Stevie69]

Yes, the average man lasts only 5.5 minutes. Yes, I know we are all above average here, but if anyone here can last 3 hours, maybe he should be making movies and getting paid instead of paying for it.

I have never agreed to the 3 hour request. However, I have sometimes suggested a coffee to aquatint ourselves, or in the summer, to meet outside the apartment and talk for 5 minutes before going up. It also gives me a chance to make sure that the girl who shows up is the one in the photos. So ti is a two way street. I prefer not to have to turn then down at my door. If there is no chemistry, I offer 100 UAH for her metro ticket back home, but only if she was polite and as in her photos.

A much better strategy is to have girls you know, and with whom you have had a great time, suggest and invite their friends. That way, trust is already established and you do not have to do the silly song and dance.

Just my limited experience recently and in years past. Most Mamba girls like to sign up for 2-3 hours instead of an hour. Or maybe that is just me. I guess it is a way to increase income while reducing risk. Unless she is working for an agency, a solo girl has no "protection" from bad people so every meeting is more of a risk. A web / apartment girl has an infrastructure that protects her to a certain extent. She churns through hourly meetings. She pays at least 50% of her normal fee for that infrastructure, but it is better than being chopped up into little pieces or any of the other ways a guy can hurt a working girl.

Don't mention compensation unless she brings it up. She has already said she would meet you. The next step is usually moving to some kind of messenger app. If she is a working girl, she will absolutely bring up payment. More often than not it will be after you move to a messenger for whatever reason. She might put it on you and ask you what you are comfortable with. If it is close but too low she will make a counter-offer. If it is way to low then she will block you. When discussing compensation, ask if her pictures are real. Most aren't but insist on getting pictures. Make it clear that if either the girl in the pictures or someone you think is more attractive is not who shows up that you will send them home with nothing. Also, you are not going to get a $50 girl on Mamba unless she thinks you are hot which is doubtful. I can imagine offering 3,000 for 2-3 hours but not much less than that, again, unless you are hot. That is a little less than $120 USD. Again, you must remember she needs to be compensated for risk of time and safety..

[Stevie69]

Good work! 1500 UAH is probably what she would have charged you, so you got it half price.

I had my first "freebie" yesterday. I met her struggling to take one of those rolling baskets of groceries and two big 5 liter bottles of water down the stairs into the tunnel near Olimpiiska metro station. I offered to help and carried the two big bottles of water for her into the tunnel and out the other side. We talked a bit and I invited her to dinner. She hesitated but agreed. I carried the water for her back to her apartment building, stayed down in the "foyer" as she put the stuff in the elevator and took it upstairs. 5 minutes later she came down and we walked to Kuvshyn, a nice Georgian / Caucasian restaurant not far away. We sat on the terrace and I got the Saturday plov special and tea and she ordered a salad and juice. She shared some of my meal (it is big) which I always like. After eating we hung out in the park there and talked. After a while we made it to a small pub and had a couple of beers. After a couple of hours, we went for a walk and were nearing her apartment. I gave her a short kiss and asked if we should goodbye for the evening. She said OK and I went for another kiss that she responded to rather deeply. We made out a little on the street. I asked her back to my place and she offered to go up to her place instead.

Long story short, we had some pretty good sex. I didn't have any condoms with me and they were never mentioned. She seemed to have a good time and I also enjoyed it. She is not really my type. I would guess around 30 years old. She has a pretty enough face but is a bit stocky (but firm). I'd rate her in the 5-6 range because bodies are more important to me than face. Total damage for the time with her was about 1500 hrivnia (less than $60 USD) spent on both of us so less than half of that on her. No mention of any other money. She was fun and I might see her again as a "freebie..

[Stevie69]

They are not pricier at home. Locals in Kiev defensible do not pay as much. The problem is that foreigners lose their minds and pay them one months' salary for 2 hours of work, of which they really work 30 minutes. In other countries where the girls go, the local market dictates the price.

Hestendk;.

Great report.

4000-5000 UAH for all night is still OK, but UAH 7000 (US $255) is already in the upside, considering you could easily find freelancer / escort in other countries in Europe, with that price range. But if they are 8-9 it might be worthy.

Is there a way to know to know that the one will turn up to your hotel is likely the one you see in the Mamba website and not heavily photoshopped? Just in case the one turns up to your hotel is not your liking is there any polite way to send them back?

Sometimes also I fail to understand the way the prostitution work in Ukraine. If you go to Czech Republic, Poland for instance US girls. You will normally pay less for UA girl, but it seems they are pricier in their own hometown??

In some cases of outcall girls in other countries especially they are very professional, they will go home or refuse to do another session after the first session? Is there nay way to spot this in advance?

[Stevie69]

Dr. Fauci want the pandemic to continue in full force until November 1st, or even Feb 20th, just in case.

Masks protect the other guy, not you, and only if then are used properly, the way a surgeon would use them in a surgery room. The way regular people wear them, on and off and in and out of the pocket 100 times per day, the only thing the masks do is maintaining a state of fear.

I am not sure that "herd immunity" applies to Covid-19. In testimony today, Dr Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases in the USA, foresees a possible huge increase in cases in the US up to 100,000 daily new cases. This is with lots of unmasked dolts and idiots in bars, restaurants, public transport and elsewhere. Florida, Texas, and now California seem to put the lie to "herd immunity. " It is about the same here in Kiev as I travel about. I occasionally take a bus or trolley and only the singular jerk rides with the mask down or some even without a mask. I do not take the metro since that is probably Covid-19 breeder number 1. I try and take Uber wherever I go long distance and I also make the driver wear a mask if he has not done so already.

Those Swedish statistics are very arguable given that their neighbors have shut off all Swedes from entering Norway, Finland, Denmark, etc without a quarantine, let alone any other EU country. I would ignore and not consider the Swedish model as valid..

[Stevie69]

In Russian, you can use Google translate.

https://news.finance.ua/ru/news/-/47...achu-v-mesyats

[Kozerog]

$300-$400/ month is typical wage for semi-skilled labor suitable for pretty girls in Kyiv, such as sales clerk, receptionist, office flunky, etc. So if you are sponsoring long-term and living in Kyiv, then you can offer $400/ month for 8 meetings per month, or $50/ meet, and that will be a very attractive offer, because you are doubling the girl's salary, plus it's tax-free money. But if you are only offering a one-time meet and you are a foreigner who obviously spent a lot of month to get to Kyiv, then the girl will likely be offended by $50, though it's possible she will accept, especially if she likes you.

I've given a lot of thought to this pricing question, because I might someday have to replace girl I have now. If I were working now with semi-pros, or civilians open to becoming semi-pros, I would start with an offer of 3000 uah or $108 for 2-3 hours at my apartment. That's a solid offer for a semi-pro, so unlikely to be rejected or for her to counter with a higher amount. If you convert the girl to a long-term mistress, then you can renegotiate after a few months to get that $50/ meet rate.

Agency girls have fixed rates and won't negotiate. Consensus on this forum is that 2000 uah or $72 per hour is typical minimum rate for outcall agency girls at agencies oriented toward foreigners, meaning agencies with younger and prettier girls. Lower rates for older women at brothels patronized mostly by locals. Exclude agencies with excessively high rates, commit to an hour up front, extend time if you like the girl.

Independent pros can charge whatever they want. If they are in high demand for whatever reason, then they can ask $250 an hour and too bad if you think that's too much. Plenty of rich guys in western Europe ready to pay that price, plus travel expenses, if the girl open to traveling.

[Sorbonne]

Why even validate him with a response? I've never seen a guy more concerned with what other dudes do with their dick than DramaFree11.

Well, I had not read this forum for a few years before covid-19, so I don't really know who he is.

I'm validating you because I remember you once sent me some links.)

[Hestendk]

Your correct with there is alot of black money in ukraine, its a standing joke here that for each UAH the Tax know about there is 1 Uah they don't know about so a 50/50 split.

I don't believe its 50/ anymore but its probably around 60/40 and falling every year.

The banks and lawyers are getting alot of KYC rules they need to handle right now, so where you before easy could buy a car with 30.000 USD cash now its much harder to do a transaction like that.

Even houses was paid in cash before mostly, I have 1 house and paid in Cash 70.000 USD, but my income is white.

The Minimum wage is around 175 USD, and yes the average probably around 400 USD as of now.

But the very rich contribute alot to this average number.

An college graduate here will in my opinion have hard to land a job at 1000 USD.

Only people that I know that land their first job at 1000 and not have an univeristy degree here is IT people and they start on 750 and upward depending on skills and position, but they in most cases also only pay 5%+20 Eur Tax each month so they live well.

The guys that stand on the tankstation and fill benzin for you get around 7800 In the bigger cities or the big chains, and then they ofc have the extra money people sometimes pay them.

Another important thing to note on the subject of "average or median salary" is that tax evasion is heavily practiced and compared with the IRS and it's wheelhouse and reach much easier to get away with. Many people will tell you that those official numbers are skewed heavily without taking that into direct account.

From what I have heard personally your so called average yearly salary for a Doctor or entry level attorney is roughly $10000 $ 15000 USD a year ranging all the way up to $40000 $50000 yearly for those with experience.

I wouldn't mind your input YummyPL. These are all numbers from combing interviews statistics and websites. Highly unreliable but from what I understand $1000 a month is a fairly good salary for a college educated adult and it's somewhat higher in areas like Kyiv and Kharkiv Metro. How they get away with the unreported income for more regulated jobs is beyond me but could they be making more under the table?

As far as what you pay that's your business. It doesn't sound like your really getting screwed over but that's my perspective as someone who pays $300 a pop at Detroit extras clubs. Me personally I strongly prefer young Eastern European girls "Russian Ukrainian Belarusian" 18-24.

It sounds like the local market is not the cheapest place let alone the best one for girls of that ilk.

Still Ukraine's cost of living can truly drive down other living costs.

If you have any suggestions on other prime spots for the Eastern Europeans I would greatly appreciate it you sound experienced in respect to the local area. St Petersburg and Moscow seem nice but as for the local sex scene I have no clue what to expect.

I have Known / seen alot of younger girls who dropped out of university and now working in smaller shops or supermarkets, and they make less then 400 USD a Month and normaly rent something that cost less then 100 USD a month, they survive on the rest of the money and what they can get from guys.

[IdiotSavant]

But this is simply not true. A decent salary for highly skilled labor that is in high demand is much more than $400 in Ukraine, and young, sensual, and attractive women easily fit that labor category. It doesn't matter that the "average" salary in Ukraine is $400 which is averaging the salary of the babushka living in the village with a highly mobile workforce that has access to worldwide demand. The girl that I am paying $250 for has been a travel girl and will be again. At the moment she is in Ukraine. She is easily better than 90% of the FKK girls that I have been with, and an FKK girl would be a minimum of $400. I mean fuck, apparently $100 for an hour with a River Palace girl was a normal price, this is more than 10 years later and the world and market have moved on!

Right now FKK Globe charges $300 per hour for GFE. So, for GFE service for 3 hours it is $900. For a regular FKK for 3 hours it is over $400 and many (all?) German FKKs are closed now so not even available. The girl I am paying $250 is better than 90% of FKK girls in my opinion. She is better than any girl I have fucked in the UK that would be $500+ for 3 hours, and better than the girls in Madrid that would be more than $400 for 3 hours, and she is as good as dramafree's Moscow girls that would be at least $300+ for 3 hours. But I am being told that I am paying too much for an exceptional girl that has a worldwide market? I don't know about you guys, but I am 52 years old and not good looking, I have done P4 P all around the world in probably 30+ countries including Germany, Czech Republic, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Greece, Italy, Spain, Israel, Russia, Switzerland, Poland, Mexico, Brazil, Costa Rica, Canada, Lithuania, Latvia, and a bunch of Asian countries and I know what my preferences for a GFE areI am not over-paying for today's market.

Another important thing to note on the subject of "average or median salary" is that tax evasion is heavily practiced and compared with the IRS and it's wheelhouse and reach much easier to get away with. Many people will tell you that those official numbers are skewed heavily without taking that into direct account.

From what I have heard personally your so called average yearly salary for a Doctor or entry level attorney is roughly $10000 $ 15000 USD a year ranging all the way up to $40000 $50000 yearly for those with experience.

I wouldn't mind your input YummyPL. These are all numbers from combing interviews statistics and websites. Highly unreliable but from what I understand $1000 a month is a fairly good salary for a college educated adult and it's somewhat higher in areas like Kyiv and Kharkiv Metro. How they get away with the unreported income for more regulated jobs is beyond me but could they be making more under the table?

As far as what you pay that's your business. It doesn't sound like your really getting screwed over but that's my perspective as someone who pays $300 a pop at Detroit extras clubs. Me personally I strongly prefer young Eastern European girls "Russian Ukrainian Belarusian" 18-24.

It sounds like the local market is not the cheapest place let alone the best one for girls of that ilk.

Still Ukraine's cost of living can truly drive down other living costs.

If you have any suggestions on other prime spots for the Eastern Europeans I would greatly appreciate it you sound experienced in respect to the local area. St Petersburg and Moscow seem nice but as for the local sex scene I have no clue what to expect.

[Riina]

And Riina, you asked me to share a link to my SA girls but you have not shared any direct information about any girls at all in the several years of your posts that I have looked at. Apparently you fuck a lot of girls. Why aren't you sharing?

Actually, I shared a girl in detail just about every month on USASG for the last five years. Many members followed up on my leads and reposted their experiences.

Sadly, I'm not mongering for the moment. Not just because of Covid, but the scene changed in the last year. Still plenty of Ukrainian hookers, but it's different. The girls travel from other cities and the experience is very different from mongering local girls from your own community. The ladies view me now as 60 minutes where as before there was a real curiosity to see what else. I suspect the same phenomenon has occurred in Kiev.

[YummyPL]

A decent salary in Ukraine is $400. You gave her, for 3 hours, more than half of monthly salary. Let me be clear, so you understand, it's like paying a German girl who does 1600 a month, 900 Euro.

But this is simply not true. A decent salary for highly skilled labor that is in high demand is much more than $400 in Ukraine, and young, sensual, and attractive women easily fit that labor category. It doesn't matter that the "average" salary in Ukraine is $400 which is averaging the salary of the babushka living in the village with a highly mobile workforce that has access to worldwide demand. The girl that I am paying $250 for has been a travel girl and will be again. At the moment she is in Ukraine. She is easily better than 90% of the FKK girls that I have been with, and an FKK girl would be a minimum of $400. I mean fuck, apparently $100 for an hour with a River Palace girl was a normal price, this is more than 10 years later and the world and market have moved on!

Right now FKK Globe charges $300 per hour for GFE. So, for GFE service for 3 hours it is $900. For a regular FKK for 3 hours it is over $400 and many (all?) German FKKs are closed now so not even available. The girl I am paying $250 is better than 90% of FKK girls in my opinion. She is better than any girl I have fucked in the UK that would be $500+ for 3 hours, and better than the girls in Madrid that would be more than $400 for 3 hours, and she is as good as dramafree's Moscow girls that would be at least $300+ for 3 hours. But I am being told that I am paying too much for an exceptional girl that has a worldwide market? I don't know about you guys, but I am 52 years old and not good looking, I have done P4 P all around the world in probably 30+ countries including Germany, Czech Republic, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Greece, Italy, Spain, Israel, Russia, Switzerland, Poland, Mexico, Brazil, Costa Rica, Canada, Lithuania, Latvia, and a bunch of Asian countries and I know what my preferences for a GFE areI am not over-paying for today's market.

It use to be that a monger would pay a $100 a girl and after meeting five, one would likely be awesome. Now guys pay 250 a meet and have to meet 20 for something good. Basically, prepare to shell out a year's salary to fuck mostly average girls.

I have fucked 13 girls so far including 3 that were in the $100 range for 3 hours with one of those being adequate. I have fucked an attractive 18 year old at $180 for as long as I want her to stay which has been from 3-16 hours with most being 4-5 hours and, although not a model, she is awesome. Overall 2 of my SA girls have been awesome and one has strong potential. So overall that is better than your one in five. But selecting good girls takes time and effort, so there is a cost to that as well. But back home, they don't call us mongers, they call us hobbyists. This is my hobby, an expensive one, but one where the resources I spend are well worth the pleasure I get.

I'll never be able to understand one dimensional talk of nines and tens. There is so many factors that play into a good mongering experience that goes well beyond physical beauty.

And the man that wrote this should understand that some girls are simply better than others. We all have preferences in looks. For me the perfect girl is Black hair, blue eyes, pale skin, small perky tits, about 155 cm tall and 43 toned kilos. (Unfortunately I have not had that yet)) but I know what I like and it is different than a lot of people. I have fucked well above 100 girls in my life, maybe close to 200, and about 5 of them have been blonde. Some guys love blondes. For me, it is a strong detraction that must be overcome by other facors. I might understand a blonde is pretty, but usually they just don't do it for me. But I have written again and again, that factors other than looks mean a lot to me. I am very selective. I share pictures of my girls with members of this forum. They are not 6's for sure.

SA has links to individual girls. How about posting one?

And Riina, you asked me to share a link to my SA girls but you have not shared any direct information about any girls at all in the several years of your posts that I have looked at. Apparently you fuck a lot of girls. Why aren't you sharing?

[Kozerog]

But why Ukraine? Can't you go to Colombia, Brazil, or even Cuba? You will save a lot of money. In Ukraine everything is cheap except girls. I wouldn't pay so much, especially for a long term thing. I think if you see the girl so frequently you should pay much less. But maybe you are sixty and so it might be different. I'm in my early 40, I look in my early 30, and I'm not willing to pay so much, even if I can. I'm saving to retire in South America.

I enjoy Ukraine and I don't much enjoy South America, though I speak Spanish fluently and spend several months each year in Spain. And saving money is not my goal since I can't even spend my current income. Why do people give nice gifts to people they like instead of saving the money?