Kyiv

[IdiotSavant]

It is sadly ironic that a couple of weeks ago I commented about the danger of girls being chopped up into little pieces, which we don't really hear about in Kiev, but then this happened.

The apartment I am using for fun meetings has no apartment numbers inside at all. This is unusual for apartments in Kiev. Because I meet the girl on the street and walk them up, I don't give my apartment number. But I have had two girls comment that the apartments don't have numbers. It must increase the anxiety that she can't report where she is if she gets in a bad situation.

So what about prices? Does the currency exchange rate have a major affect? Just trying to figure out if my intention is actually dating if an American salary is going to make a major difference.

[PhotoSlider]

The apartment I am using for fun meetings has no apartment numbers inside at all. This is unusual for apartments in Kiev. Because I meet the girl on the street and walk them up, I don't give my apartment number. But I have had two girls comment that the apartments don't have numbers. It must increase the anxiety that she can't report where she is if she gets in a bad situation.

Do Tinder girls even have someone to report to in case something less terrible happens? Like customer says: "Sorry, my sweet lady- you have poor manners. I don't like you anymore. I am not going to pay!" Well obviously that'll be the last meeting ever, but do Tinder / Mamba girls have some sort of security fallback routine? Or they just simply cut the losses, eat the cost, and post that jerk's number to their online blackbook?

It is keeping 100% of pay versus sharing with the pimp.

[YummyPL]

"More clients whom are nice"? Forgive my candor, but how can one be sure that the girl referenced to someone, will not end up dead behind a sofa in a filthy apartment?

It is sadly ironic that a couple of weeks ago I commented about the danger of girls being chopped up into little pieces, which we don't really hear about in Kiev, but then this happened.

The apartment I am using for fun meetings has no apartment numbers inside at all. This is unusual for apartments in Kiev. Because I meet the girl on the street and walk them up, I don't give my apartment number. But I have had two girls comment that the apartments don't have numbers. It must increase the anxiety that she can't report where she is if she gets in a bad situation.

[YummyPL]

The reality is there would be more hookers in Kiev if they were inundated by thousands of messages.

Perhaps. But if you read my posts, my biggest gripe has not been appearance, personality, or skills. Of the girls I have met, the biggest gripe I have had is that some were "too professional. " If I wanted professional I would go to an FKK. I don't want Kiev to turn into a machine churning out hardened pros. It is one of the few places where you can find basically "regular girls" that might overlook your age if you treat them right and help them in their difficult life situations (after all, the iphone 12 is coming out soon).

[PhotoSlider]

BTW, have you noticed that when you meet a good girl. Good in bed and nice in personality. You don't want to share her, but those that you don't care about, you are willing to pass on to others as well? I'm puzzled by this jealousy, since it would be for the good of the girl to have more clients whom are nice, and thus she would be thankful for the guy who did this, but instead of thinking about her good the feeling of "I don't want others to have her, she is my precious ( Maybe I'll lose her if others have her? Is much more powerful. And why is that? They are paid for their interest and behaviour, but it's almost like one wants to believe in the illusion of it, and acts in a way that is familiar from regular relationships.

"More clients whom are nice"? Forgive my candor, but how can one be sure that the girl referenced to someone, will not end up dead behind a sofa in a filthy apartment?

I typically do not forward contacts without meeting a monger in person, because regardless of the girls quality and level of attachment to me personally, I feel responsible for my actions. There is reputation. There were occasions in the past when contact was given, and then the monger started penny-pinching, or made the girl feeling uncomfortable by his awkward behavior. And then both are out of the window. The old and the new guy, - the one who referred, and then one who got the reference.

What is good for one, may not fit the other. Girl may not like you, or vise versa. A year ago ISG member gave me couple contacts, and the meeting progressed to a botched threesome, ending in great sex with one girl, while the other ran away. Then the first one I met again, we had good sex, and then a difference of opinions after spending few hours together.

IMO ISG Forum is not a telephone book for drive through service. It is more of a best practices methodology, do's and don't's.

There are exceptional ladies that I shared with my ISG Forum friends. The criteria is simple, I must have complete trust that this particular gentleman will treat the girl as good as I do.

Another consideration, gentleman should be self-sufficient, fully capable to find the girl on his own. Also established contributor here on Forum. Some share with me, and on rare occasion I follow through, but Kiev is full of great girls as it is.

Then obviously there are great girls that I like a lot, and do not mind them being fucked by somebody else. And as has been said here, they are thankful. I am not afraid of competition. In fact, I still have a picture of me on the bed with two beauties on my sides, awaiting my Kiev-resident friend to arrive, and help me)) And one of these girls I see first time in my life, while the other one I had two days ago, then my yet another friend had her, and now she just learned that it is not going to be me staying with her. The response was: "I'm a big girl, I can handle it" But awaiting the 3rd man in 3 days, she fell asleep. Later on she actually had great fun with my friend in jacuzzi, while I took that new concubine for a get-to-know chit-chat to Avalon for a very nice dinner, where she put my hand high on her inner thigh, and covered it with a napkin.

Anyway, now I am rather close with that great girl that the three of us shared, but at this point it would be uncomfortable for me to tell her: "Hey, there's a visitor in Kiev. Would you like to?" And she is busy on her own. When I ask for an appointment, she provides a range of dates, and we are very happy together. We both know it is not exclusive, and respect each other's privacy. It is not so much about money, as important as the cash flow is. Girls may go to Dubai for better pay, to be abused by sheikhs and oil magnates there, but many of them prefer having regular life and great time in Kiev, and be compensated for their beauty. Support, not prostitution.

There was yet another great girl, that I very reluctantly had to literally hand off to ISG Forum member because I was tipple booked. And I was totally confident that she'll be in good hands. There was one condition only, - upon meeting each other for the first time, they had to see if they like each other enough to continue. With this particular lady, as gorgeous as she is, and as great as she is in the bed, I do not mind sharing her at all. With all the above conditions applied.

And then there are few girls that feel rather possessive of me themselves. One wants a reliable partner, and I explained that I shall continue seeing others. The other one, after a few months together told me straight: "Do not make any arrangements with other girls. " I laughed, and didn't confirm anything. I know I am not the only one in her life, but over time became the preferred one in any situation. She needs money now, but she would be furious if I were to say: "Hey, would you like to be fucked by a dozen or more guys from all over the place?

With some of the girls it is partially jealousy and being possessive, but much more complicated then that across the board.

As has been said before, Kiev is not McDonalds fast food facility. Go and find your own, then report, then maybe you will not need any contacts from others. Or maybe you'll say Kiev is too much work, not my cup of tea, and proceed with FKK, when they open up.

[DramaFree11]

Just some observations from my time so far.

Not all girls that fuck for money are pros or even semi-pros. Some really do want one or as few "clients" as they can while making the income they want. If inundated by thousands of messages from guys offering money for sex, then they disappear. This is true of Mamba, this is true of SA. My mamba girl has not been on Mamba in over two weeks. Yes she is still seeing me regularly. Maybe she has enough clients right now. Maybe if I gave her contact info a hundred guys will contact her and offer her more money and then she will raise her price with me or stop seeing me. If your favorite girl only wants 3 or 2 or 1 client, then competition is not good. I don't care at all if other guys are fucking her, as long as I keep getting what I want from her. If I posted a link to her profile, I think there is a strong possibility it could fuck things up for me.

SA is a mix. There are tons of time wasting scamsI'the say more than half. There are a lot of pros and semi-pros. And then there are "normal" girls. Normal girls do not last long. Usually not more than a few days. If your lucky, your timing will be good and you will have an in for meeting her. There are only so many messages a normal girl can get that say "how much for sex" before she leaves the site. SA takes a lot of work to hit the sweet spot with a normal girl. If you want a pro, there are plenty, but most of them will cost you a lot..

Very good report, you shared the good and bad of Kiev, excellent job, that is all anyone can ask. Enjoy your trip.

[Riina]

If inundated by thousands of messages from guys offering money for sex, then they disappear. This is true of Mamba, this is true of SA.

The reality is there would be more hookers in Kiev if they were inundated by thousands of messages.

[IdiotSavant]

Just some observations from my time so far.

Not all girls that fuck for money are pros or even semi-pros. Some really do want one or as few "clients" as they can while making the income they want. If inundated by thousands of messages from guys offering money for sex, then they disappear. This is true of Mamba, this is true of SA. My mamba girl has not been on Mamba in over two weeks. Yes she is still seeing me regularly. Maybe she has enough clients right now. Maybe if I gave her contact info a hundred guys will contact her and offer her more money and then she will raise her price with me or stop seeing me. If your favorite girl only wants 3 or 2 or 1 client, then competition is not good. I don't care at all if other guys are fucking her, as long as I keep getting what I want from her. If I posted a link to her profile, I think there is a strong possibility it could fuck things up for me.

SA is a mix. There are tons of time wasting scamsI'the say more than half. There are a lot of pros and semi-pros. And then there are "normal" girls. Normal girls do not last long. Usually not more than a few days. If your lucky, your timing will be good and you will have an in for meeting her. There are only so many messages a normal girl can get that say "how much for sex" before she leaves the site. SA takes a lot of work to hit the sweet spot with a normal girl. If you want a pro, there are plenty, but most of them will cost you a lot.

You don't have to be "nice" to these girls in the American sense (and maybe better that you are not), but respect goes a long way. Treating them like real people rather than a piece of meat goes a long way. It is really unfortunate that in Ukraine kindness is often seen as weakness (someone on this board said that and it is true), but respect goes both ways. Life circumstances can make the best girls do thigs they are not necessarily proud of, but if you make her understand it is not something to be ashamed of by respecting her, they appreciate what you give them even more..

What is my best option than if I am relocating for a few months and want to just find a college aged girl to move into the air bnb and potentially travel? Also how much do these girls usually cost I'm USD and for what services? I have extensive experience with Detroit extras clubs so I need to start educating myself to avoid scams. What's fair in your opinion?

Is Kyiv better than Lviv or Kharkiv? Any advice on the move would be appreciated. I'm banking they open restrictions soon.

[YummyPL]

Is it worth signing up for SA premium before I head over to make connections in Kyiv? I heard someone did this and did well for themselves.

Just some observations from my time so far.

Not all girls that fuck for money are pros or even semi-pros. Some really do want one or as few "clients" as they can while making the income they want. If inundated by thousands of messages from guys offering money for sex, then they disappear. This is true of Mamba, this is true of SA. My mamba girl has not been on Mamba in over two weeks. Yes she is still seeing me regularly. Maybe she has enough clients right now. Maybe if I gave her contact info a hundred guys will contact her and offer her more money and then she will raise her price with me or stop seeing me. If your favorite girl only wants 3 or 2 or 1 client, then competition is not good. I don't care at all if other guys are fucking her, as long as I keep getting what I want from her. If I posted a link to her profile, I think there is a strong possibility it could fuck things up for me.

SA is a mix. There are tons of time wasting scamsI'the say more than half. There are a lot of pros and semi-pros. And then there are "normal" girls. Normal girls do not last long. Usually not more than a few days. If your lucky, your timing will be good and you will have an in for meeting her. There are only so many messages a normal girl can get that say "how much for sex" before she leaves the site. SA takes a lot of work to hit the sweet spot with a normal girl. If you want a pro, there are plenty, but most of them will cost you a lot.

You don't have to be "nice" to these girls in the American sense (and maybe better that you are not), but respect goes a long way. Treating them like real people rather than a piece of meat goes a long way. It is really unfortunate that in Ukraine kindness is often seen as weakness (someone on this board said that and it is true), but respect goes both ways. Life circumstances can make the best girls do thigs they are not necessarily proud of, but if you make her understand it is not something to be ashamed of by respecting her, they appreciate what you give them even more.

When I do a meet and greet, I take my girls to a moderately priced restaurant. Nothing on the menu is more expensive than I want to pay. It has a nice atmosphere and there is enough privacy to have an open conversation. I can observe her manners and how she treats me in public. If she is down-to-earth and acts like a regular girl instead of someone selling herself, that is a really good sign.

At the end of our initial restaurant meet and greet, I took SA#5 to my apartment without ever discussing money other than the very general idea of "support. " I made it clear before going to the apartment that it was only to talk more. While in the apartment I talked to her more explicitly about what I am looking for (normally do this online but with her I didn't). Kissing is one thing that came up and she proactively demonstrated that she knew how to kiss. After talking for a while, we made plans for our first intimate meeting. She was on her way out and was not asking for anything. I offered her some taxi money (a little more than a taxi for sure) and she seemed pleasantly surprised.

I did a meet and greet with the girl I saw tonight (SA#7). At the end of the meal she started pulling out her wallet to pay for herself. Maybe she knew I would pay, maybe she didn't. But it is a nice gesture and again is a good sign. When we left each other, I asked if she needed anything for a taxi, and she said she didn't. I gave her a rose at the start of our intimate meeting and she seemed almost giddy about it. Before meeting we did not discuss money at all. At the end of the meeting I put some money in her back pocket and she didn't say a word about it. I know she wants money (she was on SA after all), but I suspect she was happy with what I gave her without ever talking about it.

SA is a LOT of work. I have contacted dozens of girls, maybe hundreds. The idea of messing up the very few successes I have had from all that hard work by posting a link would be stupid.

My SA#1 was absolutely a normal girl who needed money--long off the site but communicates with me from VIBER

My SA#2 was absolutely a pro--Still on the site

My SA#3 is absolutely a normal girl. I am completely certain. Very good kisser, shy about her body even though it is fabulous, stays with me much longer than arranged without any seeming regard for the time. Sex is not great, but her other qualities are so good, I am likely to see her a 3rd time--off the site for a while.

My SA#4 is almost definitely a semi-pro. Was comfortable talking about money but beyond that was completely carefree with her time and seem uninterested in money while giving exceptional service. I suspect she has a limited number of guys but was on SA again as soon as she left my bedroom. I want to see her again, and I think she doesn't want many clients so I don't want the competition--still on the site.

SA#5 very different girl but everything I said about #4 is also true with her. I want to see her again, and I think she doesn't want many clients so I don't want the competition--still on the site.

SA#6 was absolutely a pro--not logged onto the site in over a month.

SA#7 is almost definitely a semi-pro--back on the site shortly after she left my bedroom.

I will give info for SA#2, SA#6, and maybe SA#7.

[Riina]

Is it worth signing up for SA premium before I head over to make connections in Kyiv?.

I don't know if it's worth it, but I would try.

[Riina]

How about Facebook?

Stay away from soliciting on a girl's legitimate social media. Most of the time your unwanted messages are an insult.

[IdiotSavant]

SA has links to individual girls. How about posting one?

I'm a fan of SA in the states, but never used it in Ukraine. The few times I chatted with supposedly Kiev girls, I could tell it was a booker.

Is it worth signing up for SA premium before I head over to make connections in Kyiv? I heard someone did this and did well for themselves.

Given the border may be locked down long term it may be risky but I am wondering how good SA is in Kyiv for Pros and Non Pros.

[Desin]

I've checked out VK.com for a while and it seems that it was a really convenient way for girls to get acquainted with clients, and vice versa. But, it seems that around 2017 many girls stopped to use it. And now, since it's banned on Ukraine, only few use it with VPN.

So. I did some googling and it appears that Instagram and Facebook became the new standard. At Instagram you can send direct messages, but nobody will probably read them or at least not bother to answer them. And it's more or less a shot in the dark, unless the IG profile is gained through some other way.

How about Facebook? I don't use it and it didn't allow me to create a fake account, but is there groups which people use to seek this kind of company? Lack of anonymity 'might' hinder it a bit.

And then there's the Mamba and Tinder, which seems to have girls who prefer 200-250 euros for an hour or two, which is ridiculous. But somebody pays that, since they keep asking for it.

BTW, have you noticed that when you meet a good girl. Good in bed and nice in personality. You don't want to share her, but those that you don't care about, you are willing to pass on to others as well? I'm puzzled by this jealousy, since it would be for the good of the girl to have more clients whom are nice, and thus she would be thankful for the guy who did this, but instead of thinking about her good the feeling of "I don't want others to have her, she is my precious ( Maybe I'll lose her if others have her? Is much more powerful. And why is that? They are paid for their interest and behaviour, but it's almost like one wants to believe in the illusion of it, and acts in a way that is familiar from regular relationships.

I have two regulars, one for 1,5 years and another one for bit less than a year. I wouldn't share their contacts with anyone, since I apparently keep them as 'meaningful' for myself. And yet, at any given day, they could end it without a blink. Life is strange.

[Riina]

Saw SA#6 today. Nice.

SA has links to individual girls. How about posting one?

I'm a fan of SA in the states, but never used it in Ukraine. The few times I chatted with supposedly Kiev girls, I could tell it was a booker.

[Ringudor]

I should be in Kiev now, I had my tickets for 23 August, I had to pospose one week for personal reaons and now border is closed, and maybe they don't open again for months,. Life is a shit.