Kyiv

[CastOnThis]

All this writing reminds me of my experience with a girl I took-out of Arena. Her name was Irina, and she was (20) and beautiful dark-hair.

But man, I had the worse experience with her. She was mad throughout the whole 2hr session. And she said, if I wanted her to stay, it would cost 1000usd for the whole day. The worst part is that when we were about to have sex. She told me she was a lesbian and couldn't do it; after I had already paid! I called her out on it. She then quieted down, but after wasting 90minutes arguing in the nude. She did give me bareback BJ, which wasn't bad. She also gave me herpes: type-1. I lucked out on not catching the second strain.

So, out of curiosity, would any of you have paid her the thousand?

[Sorbonne]

Thanks for the detailed and informative report.

Perhaps because I've been away from this forum for a while, I had never thought of Cyprus as a p4p destination. Just didn't know the scene existed.

What I knew was that Cyrus was one of the popular destinations for Ukrainians. Indeed, I was invited by the Ukrainian girl I took to Moldives in 2011 to join her and her friend on vacation in Cyrus for 3 weeks this past May, but because I was about to leave for Asia at that time, I had to pass.

I have to wonder similar scenes exist in the Med coast of Turkey where Ukrainians frequent because a beach vacation with night time thrills sounds great to me.

Glad to be back here to prep for my upcoming trip to Kiev for the first time in over a year.

North Cyprus Adventure. Day 1.

Leaving Kiev is always hard. But this time I was going from Kiev to North Cyprus, which was also supposed to be full of EE hotties in the gentlemen's "nightclubs", in quality as good as one could get in Kiev, at a price as low as one could get in Kiev. At least this was the working premise that I had proposed to myself for testing on this trip. And this of course softened the sense of loss when a great adventure comes to an end. Because this adventure was really not even half over. And from what I had heard and read so far about North Cyprus, the adventure had every potential of getting even better!

Stopover at FKK Goldentime Vienna:

On Sunday, August 25, while en route from Kiev to Larnaca airport in south Cyprus, I had a stopover at Vienna from 8:30 AM until 8:30 PM, a long 12 hour all day stop. This longer stopover in Vienna was chosen deliberately so as to allow a nice long visit at one of the FKK's I have been enjoying from time to time.

See the details of my visit to FKK Goldentime Vienna at:

http://www.internationalsexguide.inf...=1#post1465349

See the details of my visit to the nightclubs of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (TRNC) on the Cyprus thread at:

http://www.internationalsexguide.inf...=1#post1465350

Conclusions:

Prices:

At the time of my visit to the TRNC, $1. 00 USD was equal to 2 Turkish Lira (TRY).

There were two areas in the TRNC that I was able to investigate on this trip:

(1) the Lapta Strip, a strip of clubs located within a kilometer or two of Club Guzelyali in the Lapta area near Kyrenia / Girne on the main road known as Guzelyali Cd in that area, and

(2) the Lefkosa Strip, a strip of clubs about 10 kilometers just to the West of the roundabout for the intersection of the Girne-Lefkosa (north-south road) highway with the Lefkosa-Guzelyurt highway (an east-west road) near the entrance to Lefkosa / Nicosia.

With regard to the prevalent 1 hour session prices being quoted in TRNC clubs, the clubs in the Lapta Strip tended to the rate of 150 TRY, and for some of the girls they are asking 200 TRY, whereas, in the clubs in the Lefkosa Strip, some clubs are asking 250 TRY, and sometimes 200 TRY.

For the sake of understanding the comparison, these prices are equivalent, in Dollars or Hryvna, to;

150 TRY = $75 USD = 600 UAH.

200 TRY=$100 USD=800 UAH.

250 TRY=$125 USD=1000 UAH.

As you can see, such prices are equivalent to normal Kiev prices one might be quoted in mamba. Ru or other escort websites like top-modals. Com, and others.

So the prices for 1 hour sessions are not lower in TRNC than in Kiev.

The multiple hour date:

Where one may notice a price advantage in the TRNC is with respect to the all night "programme" existing in the TRNC clubs, which begins at 1:00 AM and concludes at 9:00 AM. This is an eight (8) hour time period. The price is usually just double, or a little more than double, the 1 hour price.

Thus, for a girl whose 1 hour price is 150 Turkish Lira (TRY) , the "all night" 8 hour programme price from 1AM. 9 AM, is usually around 350 TRY, which is only $175!

Now, it is true that in Kiev too, there is also a very good "multiple hour discount" concept that is prevalent, that will often enable you to negotiate an "all night" fee that is quite reasonable. For example, if you are a very good negotiator, or if you are just lucky, a working girl who asks for 800 UAH ($100) for the first hour, might agree to 2 hours for 1200 UAH ($150) , or three hours for 1600 UAH ($200) , or all night for 2400 UAH ($300). But such things must be negotiated, and depend on various factors, and are not at all guaranteed.

By contrast, in TRNC, the "all night programme" of 8 hours, is an "institutionalized" and fixed low price. That price is just a bit more than double the 1 hour price. So that even in the "pricey" clubs in the Lefkosa Strip that charge 250 TRY for 1 hour, you can have an 8 hour all night programme with that girl for 500 TRY, which is $250. It's a fixed club price.

Or similarly, with regard to a daytime "programme" at one of the TRNC clubs, which can begin at 11:00AM and continue until 5:00 PM or 6:00 PM, usually at least 5 or 6 hours, the price will be somewhere between the 1 hour price and the all night programme price.

So for example, if the 1 hour price was 150 TRY, and the all night programme was 350 TRY, the daytime programme would likely be 250 TRY ($125). Again that would represent a very good value of 5 or 6 hours for only $125.

And even at a more pricey Lefkosa Strip club where the 1 hour price is 250 TRY, and the all night programme is 500 TRY, you might be asked a daytime programme price of 350 TRY or 400 TRY. Well. 400 TRY is $200. And $200 for 6 hours seems pretty reasonable.

Daytime Action:

Also, considering that for many mongers the late night hours of 3:00 AM. 7:00 AM are not their best hours for sexual activity, the option for these gentlemen to have a daytime programme is appealing.

So I think that with regard to prices, it is fair to say:

(1) that the price of a one hour session in TRNC clubs is similar to the price for the same in Kiev. But,

(2) that with regard to multiple hour all night or daytime dates, there is a price advantage in the TRNC over Kiev. In the TRNC the low price for such multiple hour day or night dates is already institutionalized and fixed by the club. In Kiev you can try and negotiate similarly low multiple hour date prices, but a result in Kiev as low as what is possible in the TRNC clubs is not guaranteed, or even necessarily likely.

Quality:

But what do you get for the 150 Turkish Lira you might spend for an hour in the clubs in the Lapta Strip?

Is there any difference in "quality" of beauty between the girls available in the Lapta Strip, and what you get for 600 UAH in Kiev from mamba. Ru or top-modals. Com or some other website with low prices?

Seeing the girls in advance:

To be honest, I was not that impressed by the line ups I saw in the catalogs of the clubs in the Lapta Strip and the Lefkosa Strip. However, there was the notable exception of several quite good looking girls I eventually came across in Monamour. There were also some photos in the catelogs at a few of the clubs in the Lefkosa Strip who were quite pretty, although they were not at the club and available when I was there. So there are a few pretty girls in the TRNC clubs, but you have to find them.

What this means is that in the TRNC, there are some pretty girls working in some of the clubs. It also means that it will take you a little work of visiting the various clubs and looking at their catelogs, and then looking at their line ups in actuality when they open the clubs at 8:30 PM and the girls appear on stage to do their strip dances, for you to be able to identify the really pretty girls and note where they are working.

Perhaps 150 Girls to Choose From:

There are six (6) clubs in the Lapta Strip: Monamour, Golden Girls, Saritaslar, Blue Night, Titanik, and Mak5im. There are another fifteen (15) clubs in the Lefkosa Strip: Imparator, Romantic, Bijax, Mexico, Lipstick, Nane, Florida, Freedom, Faraon, White Horse, Funky Girls, Hanedan, Harem, Playboy and Tutti Frutti. In total, in these two "easy to get to" strips of road where the clubs are located, there are a total of twenty-one (21) clubs.

(There are at least another five (5) more clubs in more outlying areas near Guzelyurt and Lefka that I have not included because they involve driving further out, but you can just extrapolate the total numbers of girls if you want to include these additional clubs in your calculations.)

Each club has between five to ten girls in its catalog. A rough estimate would be that there are a total of somewhere between 150. 200 girls working in these clubs. That is the pool of girls that one may choose from in the TRNC clubs in Lapta and Lefkosa, inclusive. It is a finite and not large pool of girls to choose from. In one or two days of visiting the clubs in the strips in Lapta and Lefkosa, you will be able to identify which of these 150. 200 girls is appealing to you, and at which clubs they are located. The majority of these 150. 200 girls were too plain of face, or too plump of body, to get me excited about them. But there were a few girls who looked pretty good, and some girls who looked downright excellent, but these were a small percentage of the whole.

Being able to see in advance what the girl looks like, like you can do in TRNC clubs, would seem to be a huge advantage over the Internet sites in Kiev, like mamba. Ru or top-modals. Com and others, where fake pictures are mostly used, and you must wait until the girl shows up at your doorstep to see what she actually looks like. And there is a distinct possibility that an unappealing girl will show up, and then you must send her back, and call for another girl. This hit or miss process that takes place in Kiev, until a girl arrives by chance who looks good enough to you, is very inefficient and wastes considerable time.

So, theoretically, being able to see in advance, before choosing, as you can do in TRNC clubs, cuts out a lot of the time waste that happens when using Kiev's fake picture Internet sites.

However, on the other hand, it is also necessary to invest considerable effort and time into visiting all the clubs and surveying what is available in the clubs of TRNC, because unfortunately the girls' photos are not up on the internet.

But once you invest a day or two into visiting all the clubs and seeing and making accurate notes as to which girls are where, you can simply devote your efforts to trying to secure the time you want to spend with each girl that you know you want.

Therefore, in order to benefit from the ability to see the girls in advance in TRNC, you will need sufficient time to first complete your one or two days of surveys of the clubs, and then sufficient additional time in TRNC to secure dates with the girls you want.

How much time is needed for doing this? This question brings me to the consideration of another factor that affects this process. Availability of girls.

The "Availability of Girls" factor:

The fact that there are a large number of Turkish men, including many young men, hopping between the clubs every day, eagerly seeking out the best pussy in the clubs in TRNC at the same time as you are trying to have a good time, means that there is a lot of male competition for securing time with the best girls.

Best girls get a lot of mileage:

It also means that the best girls are getting quite a bit of mileage during their six month contracts to work in these clubs. On a night programme for the 8 hours from 1:00 AM to 9:00 AM, the girls are expected to give sex three times to completion. In other words, the guy gets three pops. In addition to having sex those three times with the guy from the night programme, she may be booked for a day programme for another three pops. Then during the club's showtime from 9:00 PM to 1:00 AM, she is available for 1 hour sessions, and may get 2 or 3 of those. So it comes to being fucked up to about 8 times every day, although on the programmes it is the same one man fucking her three times that day, and it is possible that he may only fuck her two times instead of three. But the clientele at these clubs is for the most part young Turkish males who are very into sex and sport fucking. So I believe that the girls who look the best and are the hottest are getting fucked to the maximum amount of times their schedule allows, and they are being fucked by energetic young males, not older, perhaps more gentle mongers.

Now, these young Turks have a distinct advantage over you. They speak the same Turkish language as the club managers, and have the inside track as to getting preferential treatment by the club managers, both because they are Turkish, as well as because many of them are "regulars" in these clubs.

So what you are confronted with, in terms of availability of the hottest girls, is a scenario where when you ask the manager for a particular girl that you like, you are likely to be told that she has already been reserved by another man for the night programme, as well as she is already booked in advance for the next day's daytime programme. She may already also be booked for the couple of 1-hour bookings she can do during the club showtime between 9:00 PM-1:00 AM.

How far in advance can the Turkish guys pre-book the best girls? I don't know.

It may not happen all the time that some Turkish guy has pre-booked the girl you want. And you may be able to get a programme with the girl you want that evening, or the next afternoon, if you ask the manager to book it early on in the evening, let's say before 10:00 PM. But beating out the competition for the hottest girls, is a part of the challenge in TRNC.

And so this "competition" factor adds to the amount of time you must spend chasing your date with the hot girls you found at TRNC clubs that you want to spend time with.

So the answer to the question of how many days you need in order to be able to both first survey and identify where any hot girls might be located, and then to surmount the "competition" interference factor and get a date with the girl (s) you may want, depends on how much of a problem the "competition" factor is for the best girls.

Based on my own experiences during the three days I experimented with this issue, the only thing I can advise with a little bit of certainty, is that three days is not enough time to both survey the clubs and surmount the competition factor as to the hottest girls. On the days I visited the clubs surveying the situation and viewing the catelogs, the best looking girls in the catelogs were not to be found available in the clubs. They were out at some hotel, presumably on a programme. Getting them would obviously require coming back to the club at a later time and being able to secure an advance booking through the manager.

Therefore, I would advise a visit of up to a week to be able to take full advantage of getting dates with the hottest girls in all the clubs.

You should also avoid the mistake of delaying asking for a booking until the latter hours of the club's evening show time. If you wait until after 10:00 PM, all the good girls will likely be booked, even for a 1 hour date in the club.

Most probably, once you know who your sweetheart (s) is / are in a particular club (meaning you have already seen the girls on stage and know their actual appearance) , you should not even wait for the club to open, but rather you should try to book the girl in advance. That way, if you are told she is busy for that night's programme, or the next afternoon's programme, you will have the opportunity to try to book her for a programme the night or day after that, since it is obvious that advance bookings by others are what is getting in your way.

The girls are coming to work on six month contracts. Therefore, there is some stability to the line ups in the clubs, and it would seem reporting on this thread can be relied upon within those limits. Therefore, reports about good girls or good line ups are certain to be obsolete within six months, and probably sooner if the reporter visited the club in, let's say, the third month of the girls' contract. For example, in one club I visited, I was told that the three girls whose pictures I liked in the catelog, had just left the club having completed their contracts.

Therefore, for those planning to visit within the next two or maybe three months, I would advise to go straight to Monamour club in the Lapta area, and see if the conditions I saw still obtain. They had three or four very good looking girls. Once you make bookings with those hot girls at Monamour, you can go investigate the catelogs of the other clubs.

For visitors who might go to Cyprus more than two or three months from now, I suppose it is worth checking out Monamour. But more likely than not, it is back to the drawing board, and a full survey of the clubs to know where the hottest girls are working will be necessary. Unless of course there is some accurate reporting on the Cyprus thread that can help shorten the process.

Services:

With regard to services, uncovered BJ is standard in TRNC, just like it is in the FKK's of Germany, Austria, and Switzerland. In Kiev, it will depend on the girl, and most escorts in Kiev say up front "everything in Preservativ", which means a covered BJ. It is also often possible to negotiate this in Kiev, but it is not a guaranteed standard service, as in FKK's or in the TRNC clubs. The girls in the TRNC nightclubs are expected to give good service, and there is much more uniformity about this in TRNC, than in Kiev, where getting a GFE service is something of an art.

So I think a fair thing to say about an advantage the TRNC clubs have over Kiev, is that if you want to spend a low price like 150 TRY = $75= 600 UAH, and be pretty certain that you will get an uncovered natural BJ, then you can get that more certainly in TRNC than in Kiev, where it is not standard.

However, the appearance and looks of the girls at the clubs in the Lapta Strip who had such low prices, were mostly in the average level of looks, of girls in the range of 5's. 6's and a maybe a few 7's. The exception was two or three of the girls I saw at Monamour who I would rate as 7. 5.8. 0. But that is the result of pure chance as to which girls come from Moldova at any given time, and to which clubs they go, and if they are there at the time of your visit.

The line up will be entirely different within a few months, and another club may excel over Monamour in a short while. A case in point is what happened at Golden Girls, which received good reviews by TheKnight based on what he saw there at the time he last visited. Yet, at the time of my subsequent visit, a bunch of girls had just completed their contracts and left, and what remained at the club was not worth looking at.

I therefore must stop short of saying that you will definitely find very hot (by that I mean 8. 0 and above) girls in the clubs in the Lapta Strip, available at the rate of 150 Lira (600 UAH/$75). But there is a possibility of it. However, you will likely at least find some average looking girls who are doable.

There were definitely hot girls in some of the clubs in Lefkosa. They may not be available to you on the moment you happen to appear at a club. But if you have time to invest in it, you will probably ultimately get your turn with a popular girl if you get to clubs early, and try to book the girl early for the programme of the night or the next day, or even an hour at the club during the show time.

For example, now that I know of the existence of a few girls I like at this or that club, if I had more time in Cyprus, I could make it my business to be at her club right at opening time and secure a reservation to see her from the manager for the period of time I wanted her for. Or better yet, I would go to her club in the afternoon before the club opens and try to make an advance booking for time with that girl.

The issue I confronted on this trip was that I didn't have additional days to chase down a session with particular girls at Monamour club (Stella, Elena, Mina.). And having made my move to ask for a booking too late on the night I first saw her at the club and wanted her, she got booked by other guys right out from under me. It was the evening before I had to leave Cyprus, and so I had no additional days left to follow up on her and get a programme with her. So that is why I say that you will need a sufficient number of days to get to a girl, once you find her, if there is a lot of competition for her time.

Summation:

I think it is fair to say, on the plus side for TRNC clubs, that (1) GFE type services such as uncovered oral sex (BBBJ) are more standardized, and thus more available, at the TRNC clubs than in Kiev, (2) the night or day "programme" of multiple hour dates available in TRNC clubs has a lower net price per hour with a much steeper discount, than might be available for a similar multiple hours date in Kiev, and with more certainty than Kiev, because in TRNC such low prices are fixed club prices, whereas in Kiev a multiple hour discount rate must be negotiated in each case with no guaranteed outcome.

On the minus side for TRNC clubs, it is true that (3) there are relatively very few girls to choose from in the TRNC clubs (maybe 150-200 girls in total, most of whom are plain looking) , compared to the probably thousands of girls involved in p4p available in a place like Kiev, which of course increases your statistical likelihood of encountering working girls who are hot, and that (4) in TRNC there is interference in the form of "competition" from other men for the available time of each of the few actually hot looking girls as may exist in the TRNC clubs, in a form that you would not experience in Kiev.

Would I return? Yes, but not because it is a better mongering location than Kiev. It isn't. For me, TRNC lacks the higher level options that Kiev has if one is willing to pay a little more than base prices, when one goes to nightclubs or strip clubs. TRNC is simply much smaller than Kiev, with much less high level beauty p4p opportunity. However TRNC is a beautiful island and a good place to combine a nice restful type vacation with some mongering. And there are definitely good girls with excellent service to be had in TRNC, if you invest the effort to identify where they are, and exhibit persistence in trying to get time to enjoy being with them in order to beat out the competition of all the Turkish guys trying to fuck the same girls you want.

The high level of male competition is the same reason I never bothered with FKK Goldentime Bruggen, in Dusseldorf area, when I did FKK trips to Germany, preferring to stick with the Frankfurt area FKK's on days when there is no "Messe" business conventions. Goldentime is notorious for overcrowding and high male / female ratios, coupled with a shortage of rooms. I have never encountered that in FKK Oase and FKK Palace. The time I visited FKK Villa Vertigo in Dusseldorf area, the best girls were grabbed up immediately by the regulars, never to be seen that day again. I don't think it is productive to choose a location with a high level of male competition, when locations that do not suffer from this problem are easily available.

So if I would have to choose between Kiev and TRNC as a mongering destination, I would choose Kiev for the advantages it has over TRNC. However, if I was also looking for a nice vacation environment on a beautiful beach environment, I would definitely consider the extra expense involved in traveling to TRNC, knowing I could monger there with great service guaranteed and some really pretty girls I could get to with a little effort.

I would want to investigate the vacation potential of a place like Cyprus during the winter months. If it stays warm, like Miami Beach, then it is something to think about for that reason. But if it's too cold for the beach in the winter months in Cyprus, then I would analyze it in comparison to a place like Odessa, in terms of mongering opportunity in a summer vacation environment. Kiev is a city, and is not really comparable to a vacation beach resort type area.

Happy Mongering.

LJ

[Slavophile]

AColonizer,

I think what you're talking about and the word you are searching for in English is "sucker". You are essentially telling everyone don't be a sucker. P. T. Barnum once said (mind you I'm paraphrasing) there is a sucker born every minute and there is some truth to that.

With regards to respect, men must respect the limits and prices a girl asks for. We have the option to move on if we don't like her price or the service she provides. I mean how does the old saying go,"Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me."

If a girl gives bad service, let the free market work itself out, eventually the girl who continues to give bad service will not have repeat clients.

The girls who give clients good service will get more clients.

If the girl who gives bad service wants to continue to compete in the market, she eventually will have to step her game up or move to a place where people don't know her reputation.

I disagree with you with regards to your complaining about consumer rights in relation to prostitution. There are laws in place to protect these women from violence. Violent pimps (most pimps are male) , violent clients and other criminal elements. Read Iceberg Slim's book and I sure your view will change.

Many of the Temperance movements in Britain and in the US were aimed at stopping men from drinking. Why? Men were beating the hell out of their wives when they came home from the pubs and they were savagely beating prostitutes. Jack the Ripper wasn't killing well to do, upper class women, he was killing prostitutes in the East end (White Chapel) for Christ sakes.

Laws are not created in vacuum there usually is a historical precedence and context of how and why we have the laws that we have.

A "decent society" is normally judged on how it protects the weak from the strong, the few from the many, those who do not have, from those who have much.

Therefore, we will always have laws protecting women who are in this very old and I would say noble trade. Let's face it, we men need this trade to flourish or we would be even more savage than we already are.

With regards to women asking too much, it"s all about relative value. What might be too expensive for you or me, could be completely reasonable to some else and they are willing to pay the price.

I agree that in relation to monthly wages, the cost of living in many East European countries the asking prices of some of these girls have certainly got out of hand. You do make a very valid point and observation there. Having said that, I would say if these girls live in the capital city, the cost of living is borderline criminal and insane.

Clement you make some bang on observations. Sometimes it's just easier and less of a headache to just pay for it. No feelings, no broken hearts, just sex with a beautiful woman.

Interesting post AColonizer. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, you definitely have a different way of thinking of things.

Cheers,

Slavophile

We almost wrote the same matter, I could say we wrote the same post. Except for one word: respect.

I am usually a very loyalty and respectful man and I know what is the difference between the feeling called respect and the conformism called respect. And in the specific matter of P4P, unfortunately I always realize "more respect for a sex provider" always means "more fierce is her bargaining". Maybe we are talking of two different words, but the result of that so-called "respect" is always the same: be the loser in the P4P game. Most men don't realize that because they don't rationalize their P4P game into a material profit. But women do that for natural instinct.

Sure you are a good monger. Sure I am not good as you. But I would like to do something more. I try to avoid Eastern girls become as Western girls because Western men don't realize 100$/first hour is pure madness. I repeat, again and again, what my first super Ukrainian prostitute said to me years ago (already) she was paid according the time and not according the service, and in that working time she had to do everything a customer / a group of customers wants / want: she was just an object in the hands of unknown people, and she agreed that, knowingly...

[Member #4491]

I just want to put my perspective from the post I have read so far and my experience in SEA for any newbie or senior member on the fence having hard time choosing his next vacation. For me I'm never going back to SEA untill I exhaust all my options in EE.

Starchild, you are wrong, and you know it. After all your posts in the SEA sections, you surprise me. I have no idea behind the real reason why you write like this, but it is far from a fair evaluation of these options. Maybe you had a stretch of bad luck in SEA, but to lay this out as general advice is very misleading. Mongering in SEA is at large like taking candy from kids. To claim anything else is nonsense.

Barba

[Member #4491]

I believe you. You're one of the few posters whose opinions I treat as gospel. I'm moving to Kiev in October to live and work for a year, maybe more. I will go on my first trip in Ukraine soon after arriving. Looking at taking the train from Kiev to Sumy to Poltava to Kharkov and then flying back to Kiev. I'm curious how I'll do in Kharkov. Surely it can't be more difficult than Minsk.

By the way, have you ever hit Lugansk?

Yea, I would guess Kharkov is easier than Minsk. Bolero is the obvious place for P4P but also in clubs like Radmir and Misto you will find talent (sorry for the off topic, guys).

Nope, never been to Lugansk.

Just came back from Kiev and Kharkov. Great fun as always. Indigo and Caribbean is two fun clubs that I can recommend.

CB, let us hook up when you arrive in Kiev. I go there more or less every month.

B

[OwaRunner]

My PM system is working and I got a flight for Kiev. So PM if you like to hook up, or have some nice girls that you think I like to meet.

With best regards.

OwaRunner

[Danish Traveler]

Ofcause money matters. It is the driving forve behind all. But I just say please do not think all girls are like this, cause they are not. It is too not the point being made in the post I replied too

[AColonizer]

We almost wrote the same matter, I could say we wrote the same post. Except for one word: respect.

I am usually a very loyalty and respectful man and I know what is the difference between the feeling called respect and the conformism called respect. And in the specific matter of P4P, unfortunately I always realize "more respect for a sex provider" always means "more fierce is her bargaining". Maybe we are talking of two different words, but the result of that so-called "respect" is always the same: be the loser in the P4P game. Most men don't realize that because they don't rationalize their P4P game into a material profit. But women do that for natural instinct.

Sure you are a good monger. Sure I am not good as you. But I would like to do something more. I try to avoid Eastern girls become as Western girls because Western men don't realize 100$/first hour is pure madness. I repeat, again and again, what my first super Ukrainian prostitute said to me years ago (already) she was paid according the time and not according the service, and in that working time she had to do everything a customer / a group of customers wants / want: she was just an object in the hands of unknown people, and she agreed that, knowingly. This was the real system of Soviet prostitution with Slavic customers. In fact, when Slavic prostitutes come to Western countries, the sex and the men are so mild as much as their work becomes also a pleasure, and even Slavic prostitutes find men willing to pay any amount: what a woman can ask more?

Therefore, I wonder:

- a Western man should be glad to pay money for a good sex, why there is no prostitute glad to refund money when the sex is less than usual? Maybe the so-called "respect" works into one only direction?

- why in Western countries the Law protects prostitutes (and their managers) and doesn't protect the customers (and their right to a good service without cheating)? Western governments have respect for their own taxpayers?

My friend, I never see respect in the real world, I always see a battle between winners and losers.

All women in this world want something from you, and that is sure!

If you think she is with you only because she has feelings for you, then you are totally wrong.

They all want everything from us, it can be money, safety, child, marriage.

But a girl will suck you dry until you have none, they will do everything to change you and make you her puppet.

No girl will stay with you only because she has feelings for you or whatever.

Ukrainian girls just care a little bit less about materials, because they have been living all their life in Ukraine, and they are not like our western girls who need this and that...

[Clement Mic]

I am not degrading women at all, it is just the way of life, it is human being.

And I didn't talk only about money! I said they all want something!

It can be your time, money, gifts, support.

It depends on the woman, and how you talk to her, but they all want something!

I respect women, but that is just the truth.

And if you think that it is not the truth, then you better look around again, take time to think and you will see I am only right.

Most the women I had in my life are freebies, I had long and short relationships, so I know what I am talking about.

And I am a good looking man, it is easy for me to get girls especially in Ukraine.

But sometimes it feels great to just pay for sex, and avoid all the troubles.

In bad situations, a girl can easily break up with you or let you down.

But when you have money, and everything is made easier, you are all in a comfortable situation, it happen less.

So at the end, money matters a lot. As sad as it is, money matters even more than your brain (to get women).

[Moski]

Dude I am a Cuban-American black man. I do not know the language except for a few words that I learn from Rossetta Stone. Even a guy like me got laid every night I was in Kiev, Poltava, Dniprotrovesk (sp?) and Kharvof except for the first 2 nights I was in Ukraine. The girls in Kiev if you got game will want to talk to you especially if you have humor and game. I met a girl in Poltava who put me up in her apartment and we had a great, great time. You do not need a person to hold your dick and tell you put it in this hold. If you do use a guide the girl will not respect you and that I can tell you for sure. Ukraine is a gold mine.

Hi Cubanito,

Just wondering about your comment on Dniprotrovesk, I will be there at the end of this month I would be greatful if you could expand and share and advise any tips to pick up places and p4p!

Thanks

[Moski]

Could we please stop writing such degrading words about women. First of they are not true. At all Clement Mic and other who written similar before. Women come in a lot of different forms. And most women, most women in Ukraine too, can not be bought with anything. Second reason you should stop writting such bullshit is. That most people on this forum love women. Not just to have sex with them, but we love flirting and being with them too. They have another perspective on things than us men. Now go and wash your mouth with soap.

And I do not mind sex with money at all. It is perfectly ok. But please do not think all girls in Ukraine can be bought. Only a few percentage are avialable. Like women everywhere, most ukrainian girls look for love and lasting relationships. Not all, ofcause.

Treat girls here with respect and understand their culture. And believe me you can have the hottest girls in Ukraine.

Well said Danish, totally agree with you!

[Climaxnow]

Could we please stop writing such degrading words about women. First of they are not true. At all Clement Mic and other who written similar before. Women come in a lot of different forms. And most women, most women in Ukraine too, can not be bought with anything. Second reason you should stop writting such bullshit is. That most people on this forum love women. Not just to have sex with them, but we love flirting and being with them too. They have another perspective on things than us men. Now go and wash your mouth with soap.

And I do not mind sex with money at all. It is perfectly ok. But please do not think all girls in Ukraine can be bought. Only a few percentage are avialable. Like women everywhere, most ukrainian girls look for love and lasting relationships. Not all, ofcause.

Treat girls here with respect and understand their culture. And believe me you can have the hottest girls in Ukraine.

Nobody is degrading women. They are just making point that money matters.

[Danish Traveler]

Could we please stop writing such degrading words about women. First of they are not true. At all Clement Mic and other who written similar before. Women come in a lot of different forms. And most women, most women in Ukraine too, can not be bought with anything. Second reason you should stop writting such bullshit is. That most people on this forum love women. Not just to have sex with them, but we love flirting and being with them too. They have another perspective on things than us men. Now go and wash your mouth with soap.

And I do not mind sex with money at all. It is perfectly ok. But please do not think all girls in Ukraine can be bought. Only a few percentage are avialable. Like women everywhere, most ukrainian girls look for love and lasting relationships. Not all, ofcause.

Treat girls here with respect and understand their culture. And believe me you can have the hottest girls in Ukraine.

[Clement Mic]

All women in this world want something from you, and that is sure!

If you think she is with you only because she has feelings for you, then you are totally wrong.

They all want everything from us, it can be money, safety, child, marriage.

But a girl will suck you dry until you have none, they will do everything to change you and make you her puppet.

No girl will stay with you only because she has feelings for you or whatever.

Ukrainian girls just care a little bit less about materials, because they have been living all their life in Ukraine, and they are not like our western girls who need this and that.

But marry to an Ukraine girl, then bring her to your country and see her changing in less than a year for sure!

That is why these days I think paying for pussy and getting what you paid for thats it, is not so bad!

Most people saying paying to get sex is weak don't know what they are talking about.

Most men with a girlfriend, meet her many times, offer her gifts, and then maybe sex, so whats the difference.

All girls want everything from you, and thats it, a working girl or not.

So I respect working girls, because at least they give the exact prices and do not play with us!

It is just the human nature, we are all greedy.

But a real man got to have his game right, and pay the less possible, or spend the less possible time with a girl to get what he wants, sex.

That become easier and easier with experience, it is all about methods.

Sex is really like a contract, you need to use your skills as much as possible to get it signed!

Or you just pay and thats it.

I used to only have sex with freebies and few p4p.

But these days I like p4p more than I used to.

Also p4p can take care of your * better than a regular girlfriend sometimes.

And that come from a man who get easy pussy and fucked a ton of beautiful Russian girls

[AColonizer]

Hello,

I sometimes come back here and I read the same or worse purposes. I choice this post just because it is the first one I read in Ukraine thread. The question is always the same and it concerns all aspects of life: women, jobs, governments, religions, etc. I try, again, to rationalize this matter and to avoid all our efforts are ephemeral as the beers in a pub.

If a man wants or can have sex in exchanging of money, then he finds that only. If a man wants or can pay huge prices for P4P, then he pays that only. And P4P means any relationship between a man and a woman through which a man gets something by a woman in exchanging of something else, and vice versa: the Latin said "do ut des". There are very few relationships in human relationships through which there is no a material exchange, such as cash, cock, children, or prostitution, fuckingfriendship, marriage. Who is looking for a real feeling or something transcendental, then he will be always sorrowful to never find that.

Any human relationship is subjected an implicit or an explicit bargaining. If a man has to pay huge prices for a prostitute or a girlfriend or a wife, then that merely means he has no or very small bargaining skill. Therefore he shouldn't be glad to pay huge prices even for a fantastic woman, because he shows he is a very weak man.

You are right on.

Kiev girls know their pussies = $$$$$$

They save them for the day they need money.

Then they take them out and cash in.

I saw a young Brit trying to pick up a local chick on Kreshatik while his friend looked on.

No surprise he failed miserably, scratching his head not knowing what just happened.

Like someone said, to them "you are walking ATMs" and their pussies are ATM cards.

They are looking for ATMs that will take their cards. LOL