Kyiv

[Jimmy Boy 99]

Went there last night (Wednesday) about 11:30 PM. Three progressively smaller rooms with stripper poles. Girls only topless and 3 of the 8-9 dancers were not even topless. Listless dancing. Place was dead. No excitement. Was bored out of my mind for the hour I was there. I can't imagine why anyone would go here (unless for the $300 takeout). Are all strip clubs in Kiev equally lame?

By the way, admission is free except you have to buy a 100 UAH cocktail. What they don't tell you is that you specifically have to ask for the welcome cocktail. When I went upstairs and asked the waitress for the 100 UAH drink she handed me a menu. I mistakenly assumed that I'm supposed to choose my 100 UAH consumption from that and do so. When I was leaving, I was told that I hadn't bought the welcome cocktail and that I owed another 100 UAH for the drink, which this time they gave me. If you are foolish enough to waste your time here, keep this in mind.

[Jimmy Boy 99]

Thanks LilJoey, FiddyCent, and CanadianBoy for your insights. Yana was my first European escort (I usually go to German FKKs and Sauna Clubs when I am in Europe). My escort experience is in Rio, BA, Hong Kong, and most of SEA. In those areas, asking for the money upfront is almost a declaration that she is going to give you terrible service and grounds for getting rid of her if she persists in asking for it. Apparently that is not necessarily the case in Europe, so I may have lost a good session. I will be more flexible in future situations in Europe.

[Misc123]

Hi,

I have tried ukrgo and some of the other local sites. They work 1 or 2 out of 10 times. You do not get much cheaper rates if you want a decent gal.

Regarding JimmyBoy's issue. Some of the girls asked me for money upfront, even out in the street to pay their driver (who is usually from the agency) and I have given them. Till now no problems. I have got some good girls from topmodals and other sites. Maybe some day I will encounter a bad apple. But you have to remember some men really treat those girls bad. And some of them come from families in trouble too. Treat them well and you should be fine mostly.

Ciao.

Hello Chessb.

It was tough enough trying to get contacts through Mamba and clubs like Rio, with the bare minimum in Russian. Good luck with the Ukrgo. You won't know until you try. Google Translate is your friend.

FiddyCent

[LilJoey]

[QUOTE=Jimmy Boy 99; 1433039]Had my first Mamba girl come over today. We were starting the session when she asked for the money. I was surprised and told her that I always paid after as security that she would do what she said and for the time we agreed to...QUOTE]

Her name is Yana and the amount was $90 for one hour. This is her Mamba profile.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=1076175995&hit=3

You may have read prior postings by myself and / or others about this topic. Pay in advance, or not.

There are certain circumstances where this is not optional, such as in a strip club like Rio, where it is club policy to pay the take out fee before leaving the club. This is not an example relevant to your situation because it says or implies nothing about the girl's intentions. It is merely club policy, instituted for the club's own reasons.

However, when you pick up a p4p girl in a nightclub and bring her back to your apartment for sex, or you summon a girl from the internet to come to your apartment for sex, her intentions are a complete unknown.

The bottom line is that In the time one has since first meeting her, and the few minutes of conversation, a monger needs to use his intuition and mongering skills to sniff out if the girl is of the type who will give a good girlfriend experience (GFE) , or not. What is her service likely to be like? This issue of payment before or after is only one aspect of the service issue.

As has been explained in the past, some girls have been burned in the past, or have been told about other girls who have been burned, by guys who have a session and then turn out not to have the full amount of money agreed for payment in their possession, or they don't pay at all. So to protect themselves they are told to get the money in advance, so they don't have to worry about it any more. Some girls simply adopt this as a good method for themselves in doing this business. If the girl is asking for money to be paid up front for her own protection against being ripped off by you, then it really says nothing about her intentions to deliver a good service or not. She may very well intend to give her very best efforts to you, but still wants her money up front.

The idea of asking her to accept a compromise regarding this payment, and to allow the money to be placed on a table or night stand in the apartment for her to collect at the end of the session, and offering that she count it to satisfy herself that it is all there as promised, is merely a test, to see if she will agree to it, and then you get the advantage of the additional psychological incentive for her to perform well, because she knows that if she really does a very poor rush job or rip off, then you might just interfere with her taking the money in the end. This is unstated, but it is in her mind.

So you followed this recommendation and proposed this compromise. And she refused. She still wanted all her money up front. So you have come to one of the two anticipated possible outcomes. What to do? Why would she have refused a reasonable compromise, you begin to wonder. There is an inference that she refused because maybe she knows she is not going to give a good performance. That is a worrisome inference. But it is not conclusive at all. It may very well be the case that she refused your proposal simply because that is her habit and rule to get the money up front, and her view of how things are to be properly done in this business. She may have thought your proposal was suspicious. So therefore, she could still be intending a good session. There's no way to really know the truth of her intentions. You must use your intuition and try to sense her vibes.

I agree with all the advice you have gotten from FiddyCent and CanadianBoy on this question.

A monger must learn to rely on and trust his gut feeling about a girl and her likely quality if services.

So it is a gamble in the end. Do you want to roll the dice? I have been in this situation countless times since I started mongering. Sometimes you win the gamble. You pay her up front as she demanded, and you proceed to have a really good session with the girl. Sometimes you lose, and she turns in a poor session, and you know you've been taken advantage of.

One factor you should have born in mind in deciding what to do with Yana, is to weigh her beauty and good looks level, versus the amount of money at risk. I looked at the profile you provided a link for. IMHO this girl Yana is a pretty sexy girl, definitely doable, while the amount at risk was only $90.

I cannot second guess you, because maybe there were other factors or vibrations between you and her that made you have an unsettled feeling about her. Yet, on the pure face of it, If it would have been me in your shoes, I would have probably rolled the dice, and tried to get on her good side and make a real friendship out of it. She is a human being that can respond and can end up liking you. So why not try getting sugar with sugar, instead of with vinegar.

The other guys who responded to you are right on this. Good conversation, offers of a nice drink or chocolates, are standard nice things to do in any p4p situation similar to this. They immediately establish a nice rapport between you and the girl. Remember, she is most likely not so hard core. These niceties make her feel more at ease in giving her body to a man she literally met 5 minutes ago.

There is a lot of "ice" to break through. In addition to conversation, a few laughs if possible, some drinks and chocolates, I always try to give some really good DATY. If a girl experiences great waves of pleasure rippling through her body, directly from your kisses, it creates a very direct connection, and breaks down the ice barriers for her to have good sex with you. Usually a very good blow job for you, will follow upon DATY during which the girl has an orgasm or two.

It is entirely a judgment call about whether to roll the dice or not. If the girl is really good looking, I usually go for it, unless she has really been acting atrocious and sending off really bad vibes, or when the price is too high to accept a risk.

So for the future, you need to ask yourself whether for $90, given her vibes after you try to make her comfortable with drink and chocolates, is she worth taking a gamble on, considering how beautiful she is. Very beautiful girls in your apartment for sex, are a precious commodity not to be wasted. It's something you may regret later. If she is more average looking, then you would have less regrets, so cut her loose if she doesn't accept the compromise regarding payment at the end. But a real beauty, one should weigh more carefully before cutting her loose.

[FiddyCent]

Does anybody have any outcall experience with Ukrgo. Com or.

http://www.meendo.net/?

As a non Russian speaker I feel the odds are stacked however, the rates seem ridiculously low for the services being offered I guess because they are targeted at local clients.

Is this approach worth perusing or should I stick to Mamba and clubs?

Hello Chessb.

It was tough enough trying to get contacts through Mamba and clubs like Rio, with the bare minimum in Russian. Good luck with the Ukrgo. You won't know until you try. Google Translate is your friend.

FiddyCent

[ChessB]

I talked to a few locals, these days typical p4p price is 300-1000 grivnas, this is through Mamba and Ukrgo site. For 300 you will probably get an ugly girl, although there are some exceptions. But it is a hit and miss as usual. Ukrgo. This site is only in Russian, not sure if girls posting there speak English. Look for "Kiev" and then "dlya intimnyx otnosheniy".

Example:

http://kiev.ukrgo.com/post_2034649_s...zvonochka.html

400 grivnas per hour.

Does anybody have any outcall experience with Ukrgo. Com or http://www.meendo.net/?

As a non Russian speaker I feel the odds are stacked however, the rates seem ridiculously low for the services being offered I guess because they are targeted at local clients.

Is this approach worth perusing or should I stick to Mamba and clubs?

[FiddyCent]

The Mamba girl was really interested in coming over, suggesting that she come over the day I arrived, and when I said I was too tired to do anything that day, she suggested she come the next day. She apparently really wanted the money for he to be so eager. She probably would have spent the hour and had sex with me but for her not to be OK with having the money on the table is being too paranoiac for my taste, no matter how bad an experience she may have before me. Did she think I was going to snatch it back after I fucked her and get into a fight with her over the money? That level of distrust is not something that I appreciate. The 150 UAH taxi fare apparently did include her time, as she said that she had wasted 20 minutes with me for nothing.

After this incident, I specified with other Mamba girls the payment arrangement. One said OK, the other two have not responded.

Hi Jimmy Boy.

To us $90 is not very much money, but to a girl in Kiev, that 720 Grivnas is about a quarter of a month's pay. I was told the average salary of a person in Kiev is 4000 Grivnas per month. Walk a mile in her shoes and you will understand what it is like for the average person in Kiev. When rent is due, she'd better make sure she gets it. There are some restaurants that the average person in Kiev cannot afford to go into to eat. The women also have to support their men because most of them don't work. That's what I was able to find out during my recent stay there. It is survival.

FiddyCent

[Jimmy Boy 99]

The Mamba girl was really interested in coming over, suggesting that she come over the day I arrived, and when I said I was too tired to do anything that day, she suggested she come the next day. She apparently really wanted the money for he to be so eager. She probably would have spent the hour and had sex with me but for her not to be OK with having the money on the table is being too paranoiac for my taste, no matter how bad an experience she may have before me. Did she think I was going to snatch it back after I fucked her and get into a fight with her over the money? That level of distrust is not something that I appreciate. The 150 UAH taxi fare apparently did include her time, as she said that she had wasted 20 minutes with me for nothing.

After this incident, I specified with other Mamba girls the payment arrangement. One said OK, the other two have not responded.

[FiddyCent]

FiddyCent makes some very strong points here. I couldn't agree more. However, I do not like the fact she asked you, Jimmy Boy, for 150 UAH for her taxi. That is almost 18 USD. No way her taxi's were that expensive. I've taken taxi's in Kyiv and they're relatively cheap if you get an honest driver. The fact she accepted 30 UAH so readily says it all. Hell, she probably took the metro to your place. Others might disagree, but something tells me she is not completely on the up and up. However, my thoughts are restricted to your description of events.

Hello fellas.

I agree 150 UAH is too much for any taxi. You can essentially get anywhere around town for about 50 UAH. 30 UAH meant that she lives really close by to you. The surplus amount was probably for her time wasted. Canadian Boy also brought up a good point about her being overly uptight about money. If she really looked rushed, refused to sit down and have a drink, then you know you are just one of many that she has lined up to scam. Go with your gut instinct. If you can replay the scene over in your head, you can give the final say whether or not to blacklist this girl or if it was just a simple misunderstanding. I am curious to know.

Best of luck buddy.

FiddyCent

[Member #4274]

Hello Jimmy Boy and Canadian Boy.

As Canadian Boy mentioned, she might have been burned before. Only you know the exact details of how everything went down. From what I can tell from the photos, she does not look like a runner. Instead of money, try offering the girl a drink first. It usually helps to break the ice. Once trust is built, everything will be fine. The Mamba girl that came to my apartment looked at my bag of chocolates and warmed up immediately when I offered. Play it smooth. What services did you agree to and how many hours was the booking? Take a look at the risk versus reward and decide for yourself if losing $ 300, (the non-negotiable rate for a Rio girl) , is worth taking.

FiddyCent

FiddyCent makes some very strong points here. I couldn't agree more. However, I do not like the fact she asked you, Jimmy Boy, for 150 UAH for her taxi. That is almost 18 USD. No way her taxi's were that expensive. I've taken taxi's in Kyiv and they're relatively cheap if you get an honest driver. The fact she accepted 30 UAH so readily says it all. Hell, she probably took the metro to your place. Others might disagree, but something tells me she is not completely on the up and up. However, my thoughts are restricted to your description of events.

[FiddyCent]

Her name is Yana and the amount was $90 for one hour. This is her Mamba profile.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=1076175995&hit=3

Hello Jimmy Boy and Canadian Boy.

As Canadian Boy mentioned, she might have been burned before. Only you know the exact details of how everything went down. From what I can tell from the photos, she does not look like a runner. Instead of money, try offering the girl a drink first. It usually helps to break the ice. Once trust is built, everything will be fine. The Mamba girl that came to my apartment looked at my bag of chocolates and warmed up immediately when I offered. Play it smooth. What services did you agree to and how many hours was the booking? Take a look at the risk versus reward and decide for yourself if losing $ 300, (the non-negotiable rate for a Rio girl) , is worth taking.

FiddyCent

[Member #4274]

Had my first Mamba girl come over today. We were starting the session when she asked for the money. I was surprised and told her that I always paid after as security that she would do what she said and for the time we agreed to. She reiterated that she wanted the money first. I showed her the money and told her I would leave it on the table so that she could see that it would be there when she was ready to leave. She still wanted the money first before sex so she finally said she was leaving and wanted 150 UAH for taxi. I offered her twenty, which she refused, and then thirty, which she took, to get rid of her quietly.

MY question is did I dodge a bullet with this girl by not paying up front or is this SOP with Mamba girls and I am going to have this problem with all of them?

I've only met mamba girls in Minsk but they were terrific and never asked for money up front. Unless she was an absolute knock out, I think you dodged a bullet there. She sounds like a complete *****. However, in her defense, maybe she has been burned before and had a bad feeling about you. Really, its not possible to know what exactly she was considering.

[Jimmy Boy 99]

Hello Jimmy Boy 99.

Asking for money up front is no big deal. Can you tell the forum what the name of the girl was and the amount agreed to? She may have a history, but nobody will know for sure unless you provide more details. Come to think of it, my Mamba girls did not ask for the money until they left. It was the Rio girl that asked for money up front. I was OK with that. More details please.

FiddyCent.

Her name is Yana and the amount was $90 for one hour. This is her Mamba profile.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=1076175995&hit=3

[FiddyCent]

Had my first Mamba girl come over today. We were starting the session when she asked for the money. I was surprised and told her that I always paid after as security that she would do what she said and for the time we agreed to. She reiterated that she wanted the money first. I showed her the money and told her I would leave it on the table so that she could see that it would be there when she was ready to leave. She still wanted the money first before sex so she finally said she was leaving and wanted 150 UAH for taxi. I offered her twenty, which she refused, and then thirty, which she took, to get rid of her quietly.

MY question is did I dodge a bullet with this girl by not paying up front or is this SOP with Mamba girls and I am going to have this problem with all of them?

Hello Jimmy Boy 99.

Asking for money up front is no big deal. Can you tell the forum what the name of the girl was and the amount agreed to? She may have a history, but nobody will know for sure unless you provide more details. Come to think of it, my Mamba girls did not ask for the money until they left. It was the Rio girl that asked for money up front. I was OK with that. More details please.

FiddyCent.

[Chill Bill]

Would be great if they provided a take away service.

I think you can use the service to make a connection, then ask your model out. Could be a good avenue for photographers!