Kyiv

[Habeed]

Being a Chinese dude myself, I wouldn't use the word "steal", as it is not the case.
The Chinese mongers have the reputation of being honest, generous, and nice to women in Ukraine's mongering scenes. The Chinese are getting richer and richer and we pay for what we deserve, so no "stealing" is involved here.

I apologize. In any case I don't think a significant flow of Ukrainians are permanently moving to China, either. I was being sarcastic, I thought that it was unlikely that demand from China. Which does need all the women it can get. Was a significant factor. And no, if Chinese men can spit game and get Ukrainian 10's to marry them, props to them.

Antony, what I am talking about specifically is the difference in the mongering scene over just the past couple years. Supposedly it's gotten a lot worse, and yet the GDP numbers on Ukraine show only a 2.5% per year rise. So I was just wondering what happened.

Anyways, as a newbie, I don't think I had much difficulty. I've been here- gosh - 4 days. And I have had sex with:

A. A woman in her upper 20's with an underwear model grade body, albeit a few lines on her face, she was the one I overpaid at $300 for about 4 hours each session. Source: UKD.

B. A woman who's 22, has a voice literally like an angel and a pretty face. A semi-pro who apparently needed money. Once I paid her and we fucked she stopped texting for a couple days. Source: UKD.

C. A hooker from UKD. She lied on her profile pics, damage was only $80 and she wasn't bad, just 20 lbs heavier than her pics indicated.

I have noticed that Ukrainians tend to either look incredible and that didn't show up in their pics or look terrible, and their pics are misleading there too. There is no substitute for meeting these women yourself.

So tonight I tried a smaller strip club called Penthouse and Rio. So the advantage of Rio women is you can check them out before fucking them. The downside is that the hottest ones at Rio are not easily available to fuck. Yes, like other mongers have said, most of the girls are Rio aren't 8's and 9's. Lots of lower rated girls. I did see a solid 9, maybe 10 though, got a private dance, and of course learned she is not available. Another 9 was occupied. Finally I got some stripper who wasn't terrible, but with a few lines on her to quote me "300 pounds for several hours or 200 for 1 hour". She of course claimed that this price was the same for all the girls there.

So then I followed a guide on another website about how to get sex in Kiev. And went to Arena City. Naturally at 3 am in the morning on a Tuesday, there were about 4 Eastern European looking men hanging out there. They deduced I was looking for hookers, and showed me a nearby brothel. I didn't like the girls in there, so they invited me to ride in a taxi. Yeah, I got into a taxi with central casting's "Eastern European criminals". But they were quite friendly, and one spoke english, and instead I was taken to another brothel. That had some hotties and a madam who spoke english. Brunette, tall, great body, great face. I'd say solid 7's. And the shocker was when I fucked them. To be fair, I am well endowed and ethnically look like a cousin of them. They would unmistakably heat up and get wet around my penis and I might have made one cum. (yes, all hookers can fake the sounds but it's harder to fake how their vagina responds during a genuine orgasm).

So I fucked a couple girls for a couple hours, at 2500 UAH - $88 USD. A fuck and had a good time. I brought one back to my nice apartment and the other I fucked in the brothel. Factoring in the very low costs for drinks, taxi fare, hotel, food, and so on, I am not even sure you save money doing FKK clubs. Though they are no doubt safer and cleaner.

Oh, and I managed to go on a date with one who is probably out of my league but she wants to go on another date and I guess if it came down to it I would be compelled to marry her. (certain things about her are so attractive that I cannot say anything but yes, though I expect she will find a better western man than me to marry).

[AntonySun1996]

or Chinese men (they have a surplus of males) are stealing all the Ukrainian 10's, or what?

Being a Chinese dude myself, I wouldn't use the word "steal", as it is not the case.

The Chinese mongers have the reputation of being honest, generous, and nice to women in Ukraine's mongering scenes. The Chinese are getting richer and richer and we pay for what we deserve, so no "stealing" is involved here.

Besides, how many Chinese men can you see in Ukraine? After leaving borispil airport the Chinese guys I see on the streets in Kiev everyday can be counted with one hand. I have traveled in most of the countries in Europe and, believe me, Ukraine is one of the countries with fewest Chinese people (more than some bulkan countries perhaps).

On the other hand, while a growing number of Ukrainian girls come to work in China, only few of them have actually chosen to stay and marry local men. Ukrainian girls are quite conservative in this respect and most of them are not willing to move to another country and live there permanently, as a ukrainian girl told me. Some of them are, but at quite a small percentage.

So, instead of blaming the Chinese for stealing UA girls, would wouldn't you just take some walk on the streets in central Kiev and find out who are actually stealing your UA hotties.

Besides, even if we are "stealing" the girls, I would still think it is fair, considering the amount of Chinese girls stolen by white dudes, haha.

Jokes aside, the real problem with Ukraine mongering scene is that the Ukrainians are getting richer and the girls have more decent jobs to choose. Ukraine is still one of the poorest countries in Europe, but the people are no longer as desperate for money as they were in 90's. The 90's were good old days, but this is the new reality we have to accept and get used to. Also, look at the brighter side -- at least there is good thing of mongering in 2018 compared to 90's, which is the fact that the crime rates are lower and you are less likely to be murdered in Kiev by the local mafias.

[AntonySun1996]

Seems to be some generalizations here.

In non-white countries you can still find Ukrainian girls whose quality can compare the local Ukrainian hotties in Kiev, some times even higher. These girls choose to work abroad because they know they are hot and they could make big money in wealthier countries. Not all of them are trafficked sex slaves or overworked brothel workers as you said, many of them have a decent career and just do escorting for some extra cash.

Not sure about situation in other non-white countries, but at least in China, many Ukrainian and Russia hot girls come here to study, or to be models for clothes companies, but many of them still don't mind getting some extra bucks from having sex with local dudes. I h.

This just seems. Well the first problem is that maybe trafficked sex slaves or overworked brothel workers look the same or better, at least in their clothes and makeup. But they won't have the same attitude! I don't think you're making an apples to apples comparison. This Ukrainian girl I am seeing. And overpaying, yes. Seems to think about me when I'm not with her. She prepares for our sessions and finds places to meet at I would like and seems to make an effort. And she speaks english. And bombards my phones with messages while she's at work and sniffs out other girls I might potentially be seeing.

I examined your entire list. What I saw was that either it was a country where the population is non-white (I feel as a person I am egaltarian but my penis is terribly racist, sexist, ageist, and even biased about facial structure and small behaviors and hair color) and the women in the brothel were imports, or it's a country with a very high cost basis like Switzerland or Russia. Or the FKK clubs, which are an excellent value but they are a factory for sex. Any woman you fuck there has had relations with 5 other dudes that day or more.

The one place I will look into is Moscow. Expensive but if you want to pay for it, pay for the best. And given that the women there would be either locals to the city or drawn from all the other cities and rural areas of Russia. Similar to how LA is in the USA. I would expect cream of the crop. And while $300 USD sounds expensive, try getting a hooker in LA who looks that good for that.

[AntonySun1996]

Escalation in Ukrainian conflict against Russia? Any good news? Is Ukraine economy going to tank to levels of the 1990's?

While hoping so, I don't think that would be possible.

The Poroshenko regime will not declare war on Russia unless with full support from NATO, which is not the case. Neither will Russia declare war Ukraine because the separatists in eastern Ukraine are already fighting a war for Russia, and Russia will annex Ukraine little by little without getting too much attention. A large scaled war is not desired by both sides.

And IMHO, instead of getting worse, the Ukraine economy would even possibly benefit from the increasingly tense situation in the east, as the US and EU will give Ukraine money to arm themselves to get ready for future potential conflicts (to no avail, of course). Just like how western Europe countries economy benefited from the Marshall plan during the cold war.

[Habeed]

Escalation in Ukrainian conflict against Russia? Any good news? Is Ukraine economy going to tank to levels of the 1990's?

Such optimistic thinking. On a serious note, though, so forum-goers say the mongering scene used to be a lot better a few years ago. And I am sure that this observation is correct, but why? Did demographically the whole country get older, or Chinese men (they have a surplus of males) are stealing all the Ukrainian 10's, or what? Economically I read they have only been growing a couple percent a year, putting them at a fraction the GDP and average purchasing power parity of most of us mongers.

[Habeed]

Thank you for the information. Would share the link to the apartment you mentioned please?

It's just "partner guest house". Dobovo has 150 or so apartments they offer listed. They have been decent for me. I have found a tremendous amount of extra stuff that a motel wouldn't have in the apartment (dishes, cleaning supplies, that sort of thing) and the one I am in is stylishly furnished. The receptionist speaks English (and is probably a 9 in hotness, unfortunately I don't think you can pay to fuck her). But I might be a shill, I just recommend you look for an apartment near the centre district that has a decent number of reviews, a high rating, and a decent price for the performance.

[CastOnThis]

Escalation in Ukrainian conflict against Russia? Any good news? Is Ukraine economy going to tank to levels of the 1990's?

[Habeed]

In non-white cities you can still find white hotties, most of whom came from Russia and Ukraine, in clubs. In many cities in China there are Slavic girls working in karaokes, and some of them are pretty hot.

This just seems. Well the first problem is that maybe trafficked sex slaves or overworked brothel workers look the same or better, at least in their clothes and makeup. But they won't have the same attitude! I don't think you're making an apples to apples comparison. This Ukrainian girl I am seeing. And overpaying, yes. Seems to think about me when I'm not with her. She prepares for our sessions and finds places to meet at I would like and seems to make an effort. And she speaks english. And bombards my phones with messages while she's at work and sniffs out other girls I might potentially be seeing.

I examined your entire list. What I saw was that either it was a country where the population is non-white (I feel as a person I am egaltarian but my penis is terribly racist, sexist, ageist, and even biased about facial structure and small behaviors and hair color) and the women in the brothel were imports, or it's a country with a very high cost basis like Switzerland or Russia. Or the FKK clubs, which are an excellent value but they are a factory for sex. Any woman you fuck there has had relations with 5 other dudes that day or more.

The one place I will look into is Moscow. Expensive but if you want to pay for it, pay for the best. And given that the women there would be either locals to the city or drawn from all the other cities and rural areas of Russia. Similar to how LA is in the USA. I would expect cream of the crop. And while $300 USD sounds expensive, try getting a hooker in LA who looks that good for that.

[Guntherus]

So what's interesting I have learned is with Ukrainians, there's no such thing as a "done deal" or a fixed price. Though this can go both ways. With this girl, picture attached this time, we agreed on $300 US a day for 10 days, and she agreed to spend her time not at work with me. Like a couple I guess. But now that I have seen her, and she attaches some value to me (I'm the right age range to possibly marry her, am single, live in the US and can offer a visa, not terrible looking and am a white dude), suddenly she's both trying to squeeze me to buy her thousands of dollars of washing equipment and furniture and offering lower prices when I show signs of considering other girls. It's rather interesting how bipolar it is.

300 a day for 10 days in a row. 3000 dollars is equal to or more than a girl can earn as a waiter in whole year. Just saying'. Now, what I find interesting is that you don’t get rewarded for overpaying.

[AntonySun1996]

Thank you for the list. Quick comment: for an apples to apples comparison, let's suppose you have a strong innate preference for white girls over other ethnicities. So that shrinks your list down. And Moscow is at a high price point than Kiev. A girl of the same hotness for the same time is probably 50% more to double. Anyways I appreciate your legwork. I will google each of these locations and see if any are primarily of the same ethnicity and cost levels as Kiev.

In non-white cities you can still find white hotties, most of whom came from Russia and Ukraine, in clubs. In many cities in China there are Slavic girls working in karaokes, and some of them are pretty hot.

[AntonySun1996]

Antony, Dobo has apartments that right now cost 25-40 USD a night. (I paid 30). And the one I am staying in has several rooms, nice stylish furniture, is very close to the city center, and the staff of the rental agency are extremely helpful and speak English. And it's not even in the same building as the rental agency, there's total privacy. And a king sized bed and a jacuzzi. I am not sure what benefits a hotel can offer over this.

Thank you for the information. Would share the link to the apartment you mentioned please?

[Habeed]

So what's interesting I have learned is with Ukrainians, there's no such thing as a "done deal" or a fixed price. Though this can go both ways. With this girl, picture attached this time, we agreed on $300 US a day for 10 days, and she agreed to spend her time not at work with me. Like a couple I guess. But now that I have seen her, and she attaches some value to me (I'm the right age range to possibly marry her, am single, live in the US and can offer a visa, not terrible looking and am a white dude), suddenly she's both trying to squeeze me to buy her thousands of dollars of washing equipment and furniture and offering lower prices when I show signs of considering other girls. It's rather interesting how bipolar it is.

[Habeed]

I will come to Kiev again soon in December and I'm considering staying in this place.

I'm wondering if I would have problem taking my girls inside. Some are working girls some are semi pros. Has anyone had any experience in this hotel? Any information would be appreciated.

Antony, Dobo has apartments that right now cost 25-40 USD a night. (I paid 30). And the one I am staying in has several rooms, nice stylish furniture, is very close to the city center, and the staff of the rental agency are extremely helpful and speak English. And it's not even in the same building as the rental agency, there's total privacy. And a king sized bed and a jacuzzi. I am not sure what benefits a hotel can offer over this.

[Habeed]

Your welcome. If you would like to have sex with a more beautiful girl than you can in Kiev for money, see list below. If you are looking for a long term relationship with a Ukrainian girl, ignore list below.

Club Vive. Madrid.

Brix. Singapore.

Premier. Dubai.

Pigmalion. Madrid.

Club Aphrodisia. Zurich.

New Scandalo. Malaga..

Thank you for the list. Quick comment: for an apples to apples comparison, let's suppose you have a strong innate preference for white girls over other ethnicities. So that shrinks your list down. And Moscow is at a high price point than Kiev. A girl of the same hotness for the same time is probably 50% more to double. Anyways I appreciate your legwork. I will google each of these locations and see if any are primarily of the same ethnicity and cost levels as Kiev.

[Habeed]

So I saw the girl I thought was a 6. Her pictures were misleading, or maybe she is one of the rare people who goes on a weight loss campaign and actually does it. I'd say she was a 7, maybe 8. I had a better experience with her than any prostitute or sugar baby I have ever met in the United States. Or heck, regular girl. She really worked for that grivna. I mean the main difference was during the 2 hours we had sex (we then went out for dinner after) she actually kept going. Not quitting in the middle because she is slightly sore or a little tired like an American girl (at least the ones I have personally fucked, I only have sampled so many). But she probably didn't do anything that would impress you jaded veterans of the forum, all she did was be very clingy and intimate and dance for me naked and give me a back massage and act like I was giving her an amazing time and basically she didn't do anything that a hooker wouldn't normally do, she was just hotter and more enthusiastic about it, as well as not expecting to be able to just slack off and be lazy after the first time I came.