Kyiv

[Michi T]

...I decided to have a drink and there were few people drinking just few meters from me. I thought I will give it a try and found that it is some famous 1 euro drink bar where everything in the menu is for 1 euro. Sorry forgot the name of that place, but I guess you guys will know for sure what I am talking about. ...

Does anyone know about this bar? What is the name and where is it? It sounds interesting. I know one Euro bars from Poland only.

[Kozerog]

First of all, I am sad about the negativity in this forum. My experience was positive.

I think some of the negativity comes from lack of understanding of how things work in Kyiv plus lack of advance preparation for those using mamba. I know I had difficulties my first few years in Ukraine. Lack of understanding of pricing was one cause of my problems, which is why I'm making all these posts on that subject. I actually may have lost some excellent semi-pro prospects my first few years because I was offering too much money, not too little. I was still thinking of USA prices, and girls probably thought I was a big talking wanker who didn't actually plan to pay anything.

As I suggested in my last post, standard per hour price for quality escorts, not counting middleman fees, is 1000 uah for longer sessions. But then you need to add an upfront outcall fee of maybe 1000 uah for short sessions. Thus one hour sessions would be 2000 uah total, two hours 2500 uah, three hours 3000 uah, or something like that.

Those prices are for the girl. If a middleman (agency, pimp, strip bar, etc) is involved, then add their fee. Hidden agencies (agencies masquerading as independents on mamba and elsewhere) take 50%. So expect to pay double the above rates for agency girls.

Photoslider mentioned that he was paying 2000 uah total for agency girls, so no outcall fee, and my own experience in summer of 2017 was similar, 1700 uah for first as well as subsequent hours. Lack of outcall fee (outcall fee means first hour more expensive than subsequent hours) implies hidden agency girls are being worked hard: one client after another with little downtime in between. Not surprising that these girls often have a bad attitude and there is high employee turnover at these hidden agencies. Photoslider's 3 bad apples out of 20 total is better than most clients can expect. As Photoslider mentioned, he has advantages that other clients lack: long-time repeat customer at his preferred agency, speaks fluent Russian, much experience with the Kyiv mongering scene, apparently more sexually attractive to girls than average client. Many clients may only get 50% success rate, and of course this is an average. Quite possible for an unlucky newbie to get 5 bad girls in a row. No wonder some guys become so negative.

KEC / Gia agency is the only openly operating agency, but because they are operating openly, payoffs to police are higher, and agency cut is 60% rather than 50%. KEC / Gia incorporates an outcall fee in their pricing structure, which reduces need to work girls so hard. Supposedly, KEC / Gia girls see at most one client per day. Some girls are priced higher than others, but lets take Alina, who is priced on the Russian version of the site at 5000,7000, 9000 and 10000 uah for 1, 2, 3, and 4 hours respectively. Multiplying by 40% gives what the girl nets: 2000,2800, 3600,4000 uah. These numbers are not far from those I listed earlier for prices you can expect to pay for high quality outcall independents. Note that 4000 uah for 4 hours is also what I paid my jewel this past summer.

Two conclusions. First, getting rid of middlemen is key to lower prices. But getting rid of middlemen requires time. Agencies exist for a reason. Guys want to come to Kyiv for 3 days and have sex with a different girl every morning and evening, and most guys can't arrange that without an agency. Some guys might be successful using mamba semi-pros for rushed sex tours like this, but certainly not average guys. Most guys require a much more leisurely schedule to get success with true semi-pros.

Second, if you must use an agency, and you lack Photoslider's advantages, you might as well use KEC / Gia. Because if your success ratio is only 50%, versus Photoslider's 85% (17 out of 20), then 2000 uah for one hour with hidden agencies actually ends up costing twice that on average per good experience (and I'm not even factoring in the stress of the bad experiences). So that's 4000 uah on average per one hour meeting versus 5000 at KEC / Gia. If you usually extend good sessions to 3 hours, then each good session costs 2000 * 4 = 8000 uah at hidden agencies (3 good hours at 2000 plus average of one bad per good experience) versus 9000 at KEC / Gia. Then factor in that KEC / Gia girls are almost certainly better quality on average than girls at hidden agencies, and it just doesn't make sense for newbies to bother with hidden agencies.

I've never used KEC / Gia myself, but I did use hidden agencies in summer 2017 and I experienced their disadvantages first hand. It's clear to me that KEC / Gia fixes many of those disadvantages. So I were forced to use an agency in the future, I would use KEC / Gia. However, if at all possible, I would try to avoid agencies and other middlemen entirely. 20000 uah (two 4 hour sessions) weekly for 13 weeks = 260000 uah, or over 9000 usd. That's more than I want to spend, plus it would bother me that 60% of that money would be going to middlemen rather than the girl.

If I were the type of guy who liked lots of variety rather than the same girl over and over, I would definitely use KEC / Gia. I am confident that, if ever necessary, I could eventually replace my current jewel with another quality independent / semi-pro for long-term mistress relationship, but I am equally confident that I could not easily and quickly find quality independents / semi-pros for one-shot deals.

[DramaFree11]

In addition, they know that there are so many desperate Westerners who pay almost every price.

Agree, just one question, are Blow Jobs not included now?

[NorskKing]

First of all, I am sad about the negativity in this forum. My experience was positive.

Have been in Kiev for little more than a week and then met with my contact Agata (which was not her real name). She came to my apartment the same day I landed and she has been one of best gifts one could ask in my bed. Our communication was not very fluent, but she dropped her guards completely due to our experience in my last trip. I gave her 5000 UAH the first day after which she insisted not to talk about money. I obliged. She said she just want to have fun. She even brought some nice green stuff the third day and boy, that day we had real wild sex. She was standing in the balcony naked and then there were some old couple hanging out there and she did not even care. I did not stop her in anything as I love to see her enjoy her freedom. I needed a day off for myself, so I told her that I was busy the fourth day, In spite of her reluctance to take money.

Fourth day, I took my kindle with me and sat on the benches of Khreshchatyk street, with half of my mind reading and the half enjoying the beauty of woman walking around. At this point I had no intention to talk to anyone, as I was completely drained out with sex and needed my time. When the balls are empty, I guess a man purely can think of something else than sex: the.

After spending few quality hours reading, I decided to have a drink and there were few people drinking just few meters from me. I thought I will give it a try and found that it is some famous 1 euro drink bar where everything in the menu is for 1 euro. Sorry forgot the name of that place, but I guess you guys will know for sure what I am talking about. There I met this girl Zara, who was standing pretty close to me and to my surprise, she started the conversation by asking about my whereabouts and what I was doing in Kiev. After about an hour of talking, we went to some grill restaurant where we ordered some food and hookah. She spent the night with me and then I learned she was really a student as she claimed before. She stayed with me for two days and came to where ever I went and ate whatever I chose. She was pretty down to earth girl, without a single gram of ego and fun hearted, very smart girl. She was very young and energetic, and I was not so young, so at this time I had to take a pill of Viagra to keep up. She did not take any money from me (even though I insisted) but she made me promise that I will have similar adventure next time I come to Kiev. How can I say no to that.

Then Agata came back to me with a little different attitude and asking me if I was with another woman. I told her of course not (this part scared me a bit, as I was not prepared for this situation). I told her that I was busy those days and told her that I cannot meet her for next few days.

The day before I left, I took the advise of photoslider and called the agency he suggested me (please don't hassle him by flooding is inbox). I called Mika which was one of his choices and she was pretty decent in her services and looks. I think Agata and Zara has spoiled the standards for me so I am now confused as to what to rate Mika, maybe a 7 as she put some restrictions on what I can do and what I cannot. Agata and Zara had no limits.

Overall, I do not understand the negativity in this forum. There are girls out there who just want to have fun. I have no clue what I did right or what some other did wrong. I am not doing that kind of discussion again in this forum. My duty was to give my report to the forum, which I did now. Enjoy guys and stay safe.

[Michi T]

They are open to international trade, since they can export themselves to Western Europe, but exporting is not friction-free as with bulk sunflower seeds. That is, pretty young girls know that they can make much more than 500 uah / hour in Western Europe

In addition, they know that there are so many desperate Westerners who pay almost every price. Looooool!

[Kozerog]

Photoslider mentions 2000 uah / hour as current Kyiv standard price. But those are mostly agency girls and the agency takes 50%. So girl only nets 1000 uah / hour. So 1000 uah / hour is presumably current standard price for quality independents and experienced semi-pros, with no agency, pimp, strip bar or other middleman involved, especially for longer sessions.

1000 uah / hour is what I paid my jewel this past summer, for meetings of 4 hours each, or 4000 uah / meeting, 2 meetings / week, 13 weeks. (I also paid her a big bonus at our last meeting, but I never discussed that beforehand and it was not part of our arrangement.) If I had to replace my jewel, I would offer 1000 uah / hour for meetings lasting 3 hours, thus 3000 uah / meeting, thus giving me room to raise to 4000 yah later. Under promise, over deliver. This offer would only be for semi-pros who I had met for coffee in advance, so no possible disappointment regarding looks or personality. I'm finished dealing with agency girls.

If you compare price levels for rents or salaries between Kyiv and western Europe or the USA, then use those comparisons to adjust prices for sex, result is about 500 uah / hour, which is indeed what locals pay for incall with women who only speak Russian / Ukrainian. Read, for example, http://www.kiev-x.in/viewforum.php?id=1.

Problem with preceding comparison is that uah is currently excessively depressed relative to usd and euro. For items produced locally but not exported, like dental services, depressed uah allows foreigners to get bargain prices in usd terms. For items produced locally but completely open to international trade, like bulk sunflower seeds, depressed uah has no effect and so no bargains in usd terms. Locally produced sex work girls are somewhere in-between. They are open to international trade, since they can export themselves to Western Europe, but exporting is not friction-free as with bulk sunflower seeds. That is, pretty young girls know that they can make much more than 500 uah / hour in Western Europe, however moving to Western Europe involves expense and effort and is not even an option for semi-pros with a day job. Girls also know that most sex tourists are offering considerably more than 500 uah / hour (sex tourism is international trade with consumers shipping themselves to product, versus product shipped to consumers). Thus average sex tourists offering 500 uah / hour, even as part of a larger deal (multiple hours / meeting, etc), are likely to face resistance, unless one of the following criteria applies (trip reports citing 1000 uah for overnight usually have one of the following criteria applicable):

* Girl has strong attraction to man, especially if handsome young man with good social skills who girl can imagine marrying.

* Girl very inexperienced, so thinks of sex work as easy money. It takes a while for beginner semi-pros to realize that 1000 uah every few weeks doesn't amount to much on an annualized basis and to start investigating what other sex work girls are being paid.

* Girl not in high demand for whatever reason (age, looks, limited services offered).

* Man speaks Russian (or Ukrainian) and girl does not speak English. (Variation on girl not in high demand.).

* Trip report from outside Kyiv (Nikolaiv, etc). (Another variation on girl not in high demand.).

* Relationship really is long-term, with man living permanently in Kyiv or visiting frequently.

Some ads on http://massazhka.com/kiev/ischu-sponsora show prices offered by Ukrainian men wanting to sponsor girls. Fo example, http://massazhka.com/kiev/ad/sponsor...oj-15-000-grn/ is a legit sounding ad offering 15000 uah / month for 10 meetings of unspecified time length on weekdays afternoons, thus 1500 uah / meeting. This is by a married man aged 35. Another legit sounding ad is by a young man seeking an experienced woman to teach him sexually, 2000 uah / meeting unspecified length of time. Many ads on this site appear to be wankers offering ridiculous sums and wanting the girl to send nude photos and description of what she will so in bed, prior to any meeting or payment.

BTW if you want to make an agency girl laugh, scroll to the bottom of http://massazhka.com/kiev/eskort and have the girl read the description of what escorting supposedly entails, such as riding around in limousines, eating at expensive restaurants, etc.

[DramaFree11]

Thanks Photoslider, I have contacted a few chick and they are all asking me 175-300. All of them are 7 and 7 plus.

7 and 7 plus in Kiev, highly unlikely, 6 if you are lucky. Try to deal in reality.

[DramaFree11]

Argo1990.

I will be in Kiev starting tomorrow. I have been messaging with tons of girls on mamba (only ones with more than 3-4 pics) and got a few numbers. Most seem quite unfriendly though. Are there any alternatives to mamba or escort websites?

My goal would be to have at least 2-3 girls during my stay (1 week) what venues are famous for picking up local hotties?

Unfortunately, you are dealing with the reality of Kiev. Most of the guys leave out a lot of information about Kiev. I would not spend a lot of time at the Night Clubs, waste of resources and time. Guys are correct about the Street came and paying.

[Michi T]

I will be in Kiev starting tomorrow. I have been messaging with tons of girls on mamba (only ones with more than 3-4 pics) and got a few numbers. Most seem quite unfriendly though. Are there any alternatives to mamba or escort websites?

My goal would be to have at least 2-3 girls during my stay (1 week) what venues are famous for picking up local hotties?

Go to street and talk there! Why you need prostitutes writing before?

[Argo1990]

I will be in Kiev starting tomorrow. I have been messaging with tons of girls on mamba (only ones with more than 3-4 pics) and got a few numbers. Most seem quite unfriendly though. Are there any alternatives to mamba or escort websites?

My goal would be to have at least 2-3 girls during my stay (1 week) what venues are famous for picking up local hotties?

[SuperLove]

Thanks Photoslider, I have contacted a few chick and they are all asking me 175-300. All of them are 7 and 7 plus.

Will come in the evening and go back next day morning after BF. Atleast 2 sessions each. Do you think this is a good plan, also what's is the disease scenario in Kiev, I mean sexual viruses, infections.

BBBJ a good idea. Of course sex with condom only.

3-4 days? If you have money. Go for escort. Vc.

[Wingwang]

I don't understand why some guys are so negative about Kiev.

I am here now and having a great time. Some people say Kiev may not be easy for newbies but I always had fun here. Even my first time as a newbie. First time I spent more money using GIA and Rio but this time I did not but would not hesitate to Rio. I am not a GIA fan.

The trick is that I use a reliable agent. I go to apartments with him during the day and evenings, I have couple of contacts for I keep a friend or two from past trips and mix it up with night clubs and just watching eye candy all day at a cafe. This trip is more fun because I have couple of cool friends sharing an Airbnb. Wow. Cool city centre, good to great food that is reasonably priced, decent ethnic options, slow but friendly service. Chic cafes and most importantly, what a collection of stylish beauties on the street with near perfect posture and gait? IMHO Only Belgrade has more stylish beauties in one square mile than Kiev. (I have not been to Moscow). Other than that I have covered all major mongering destinations in the world and Kiev beats them all for my eyes..

It sounds like you are having a good time. Which agencies did you contact for Tanya, Emma, Ilona?

[PhotoSlider]

Coming to Kiev in the second week of October for 3-4 days and will be staying at Hotel Ukraine, planning to call a chick have a session with her when she arrives, take her out for a nice evening drinks and dinner and then have another session followed by one in the morning. Atleast 2 for sure. Monger friends please advise if I should hunt them on the streets of Khreschatyk or other places or call in Mamba or escort services. Whatever it is I do not plan to sleep alone at night.

Cheers.

3-4 days? If you have money. Go for escort. Vc.

[PhotoSlider]

My experience so far is very very similar. This is my mongering style also.

Hourly has a range. 1800 to 2500. plus 200 for taxi.

One of the girls I saw twice is 18 yr old and looks like Monica Bellucci. True stunner.

One apartment girl came to see me for free three afternoons in a row and stayed overnight one night. That night we had sex for over 2 hours. Life is good in Kiev.

I refuse to pay 200 taxi fee. 100 is good with 2000 girls.

Had 24 girls so far in 15 days. Had 3 days down sick with strep. Probably DFK or DATY.

Am healthy now.

3 girls were terrible:

1. From war torn Donetsk area. Visibly traumatized. Complained all the time. After she yelled irritated "It hurts! I pulled out my dick and told her literally "Get the fuck out now! Another one will be here instead of you in 30 minutes. " Lost 70 USD. Gambling money.

2. Two girls arrived for me and my friend. Paid them 2 K per. Right there in the street one started playing mama-san:

- Do you, guys, know the rules?

- ? Please remind us!

- No kissing. No touching private parts.

My friend and I looked at each other, and asked:

- What do you think?

- They can go to hell!

Got our money back, short of 100 UAH taxi fee.

3. This morning two girls arrived, very nervous newbies. Confidence and shame problems. Were rude. I turned and walked away. They yelled:

- Money for taxi!

Didn't honor them with response.

3 out of 24 - IMO not a bad ratio.

I have an unfair advantage though: this agency knows me. I speak fluent Russian and decent Ukrainian.

Warning: I do not have girls numbers to give away. I can explain my approach over Viber voice call. Cheers! Sorry, it gets very busy in Kiev.

[SuperLove]

Coming to Kiev in the second week of October for 3-4 days and will be staying at Hotel Ukraine, planning to call a chick have a session with her when she arrives, take her out for a nice evening drinks and dinner and then have another session followed by one in the morning. Atleast 2 for sure. Monger friends please advise if I should hunt them on the streets of Khreschatyk or other places or call in Mamba or escort services. Whatever it is I do not plan to sleep alone at night.

Cheers.