Kyiv

[Ivan Buyan]

Hey fellas, so I observe a kind of the holy war on the last few posts here.

I just want to share my opinion (as a guy who stays in Kyiv for many years) on why sex sells at higher prices each year here and who is the one to blame.

First of all I really think that most of you started Visiting Kyiv since 2013-2018. Those were pre and post revolution years and as some of you perfectly know from history lessons. Revolutions drop down the local currency to the bottom, cause everyone is getting rid of the assets that belong to the country on war / revolution. Ukraine had both. War and revolution. During 2014 - 2015 prices were rediculously low. Check this out. Now $1 is around 27-28 UAH. Back than I remeber exchanging $1 for 38 UAH (though few months before the rate was $1 - 8 UAH). I rented a perfect apartment in the center of Obolon for 7 k UAH which back then was 200-230 USD.

So being a foreigner on a visit to Kyiv you felt like GOD with your $$$ in the pocket.

From 2015-2016 economy started to recover and reaching its pre 2013 level. And before 2012 Ukraine and Kyiv was never that cheap. I used to visit Prague in those years and I should say it was cheaper than Kyiv by all means: food, fun, living. If you look at the real estate prices then you will see that they are just now coming to the pre 2013 lever when 1 square meter in a residential level on the outskirts of Kyiv had a price for 1000 $ min.

Another reason. Tourism. Due to war and revolution, Ukraine and Kyiv got its own piece of hype in 2013-2014 and tourism boomed, I have friends from Israel who come visit Ukraine every weekend like its Las Vegas (not in corona time of course). These guys advertise Kyiv in Tel Aviv like its the heaven in eastern Europe and more of them come to sped money here and Israel is just a part of the game. Tons of foreigner are attracted by Kyiv low prices and women each year, and these are foreigners who skyrocked the prices for escorts.

So regardless we like it or not, Kyiv sex and fun will be getting more and more expensive.

And someone said it right. Do not forget that Kyiv is one of the top tech and digital nomads places in Europe. Tons in foreign companies pay crazy salaries to tech guys here. Currently the amount of tech vacancies is 15% higher than the amount of tech job seekers.

So my advice. Come here only if you don't aim to save but want to have exclusive and still best value for money type of fun. If you want just sex regardless the GFE experience then Thai and Latin America is the way to go (or Germany clubs).

[VinDici]

...Small group of guys who overpay probably reduce prices in the long-run, because of the increased supply they create.

I agree with some of what you are saying, and guys that pay 10000 UAH for the service that is advertised at 2000 UAH, could have the effect that you describe, however guys paying 3000 UAH for a 2000 UAH will only increase prices without affecting supply.

[Kozerog]

when FilthyBeaver said that "I'll happily pay more to price people like you out. " Why would a person do that? What kind of person would increase the cost of milk just to make it more expensive for his neighbor?

FilthyBeaver got carried away with his language, but there is absolutely nothing irrational or un-businesslike about paying above market price to lock out competition.

Big businesses routinely pay key employees more than market rate to avoid even higher cost of losing / replacing them. Suppose a key employee produces $200 K value and would cost $200 K to replace, but competitors will only pay $100 K, because most of the employee's skills are company-specific and useless to competitors. Then company might raise pay to $150 K to lock the employee down with "golden handcuffs". This makes sense because there is still a savings of $50 K versus replacement cost.

Same situation can exist with girls, though usually it's long-term arrangements, not one-time situations. Some guys want a special girl, not just any girl, but what is special about her might not be valued by other guys. That is, she is worth more to him than to other guys. In this situation, it's smart to raise the bid over market to lock her down. I overpay my girl for this reason.

Milk analogy is a bad one because all milk is the same and there is plenty more milk in the supply chain. Better analogy is real-estate. People routinely bid up the prices of one-of-a-kind real-estate, like coastal real-estate, because they really want a specific property and not just any property. Do you think girls are like milk, all the same, or like real-estate, each unique? If all the same, then yes, always pay the minimum. If each girl unique, and you want one girl in particular and there is competition for that girl, offering more money is one way to win the competition. (Offering other things that girls want, such as good sex or friendly and respectful attitude, is another way to win.).

There are also guys who overpay just so they can boast how much they paid, similar to guys who know nothing about art but nevertheless pay $500 million for a Picasso just to show off. I would not worry about these big spenders ruining the pussy market. On the contrary, every time a girl gets paid $10 K for one night with an oligarch, news quickly spreads, more poor girls decide to be semi-pros, and that increased supply quickly brings prices back down.

In general, cause of high prices is not excess demand from simps and mongers throwing more and more money at girls, but rather insufficient supply. If every woman everywhere was for sale, prices would be very affordable for average girls. Obviously, this scenario is unrealistic, but there are many girls who would like to semi-pro but don't because of risks. Guys to condemn are guys responsible for those risks, and resulting reduced supply: guys who mistreat girls, PUAs who try to avoid paying, white knights who shame girls for being semi-pros or advocate for harsh laws targeting the sex market, etc. Small group of guys who overpay probably reduce prices in the long-run, because of the increased supply they create.

[Desin]

I find one of the thrills of p4p in using my wit to get the girls of my liking at lower price.

This I approve. I use my tongue and animalistic fucking to do the same thing. After that, it's deep talks before the next round. For some reason, people (strangers) tend to tell me their emotional traumas when we meet for the first time. Or do you get this too? It's not only prostitutes, though. But anyhow, girls who don't get easily orgasm through licking are quite happy to cum. And when asked to lower the price of the meeting, it can go down to 50%. I count on this on my strategy to pay more for the initial meeting and then, if we both like each other, try to get it for half price. For girl it will be less income per visit, but she'll be asked again and again by familiar customer.

But that's the way life works.

Let's remember what we are talking about here. We are talking about prostitutes. This is not a competition about getting the prettiest girl in the classroom. It's about business.

Now, as in any business, you get the product that is being sold easily if you pay over it's value. Pay more than the competitors are ready to pay for it. But, if you are a businessman, you don't want to do this. You don't want to pay too much. Because you know you will need to get that product another time, and again and again. If I'm a milk drinker and I see people willingly pay 50% over the regular price in the local market for milk, I get thoughts like "Whatta fuck, are they nuts? Don't they know it will increase the cost of the milk? Why are they doing it?" Now, with girls, it's a bit different. But the baseline is there. And that is what was called in question when FilthyBeaver said that "I'll happily pay more to price people like you out. " Why would a person do that? What kind of person would increase the cost of milk just to make it more expensive for his neighbor? We are on a forum dedicated to this habit, addiction or way of life. Whatever it is. If someone's modus operandi is called in question, I would hope that instead of this kind of "cavemanish" reactions of "Ohh I do what ever I want! You suck!" there would be actual, logical arguments to support that behavior. Maybe even so good that others would start to adopt them as their own.

Kozerog, it seems that everyone here is able to afford the financial cost of traveling to another country to enjoy their prostitutes. Maybe the difference between 2000 and 3000 UAH ain't the crucial point here. It's the cost of two pizzas with cokes.

And no, I wasn't angry. I'm calling this rhetoric into question. Let's not behave like cavemen, even if we have money.

[Sorbonne]

I find one of the thrills of p4p in using my wit to get the girls of my liking at lower price.

[Kozerog]

But if the attitude is "Ohh fuck you guys, I have more money than you and I spent it the way I like", then it's something else. It reveals one's true personality.

But that's the way life works. Back in caveman days, the biggest guy used his physical strength to get the girl he wanted and prevent other guys from getting her. Now men use financial strength to beat the competition. And not just with girls. There is competition everywhere, and money often decides who wins. Those willing and able to pay higher prices get first choice. Those unable or unwilling to pay higher prices get the leftovers. Facts of life.

Your anger at Filthy Beaver is same as that of PUAs at mongers in general. They hate that we use our superior financial strength to get the girls we want, and invent all kinds of reasons why it's wrong to pay girls. But they show no hesitation about using their superior physical strength, or looks, or youth, or charm or anything else in their toolkit to win the competition. In their eyes, only money is bad, because money is the thing they lack.

We could do without calling each other "dolt" however.

[TinyHippo]

You guys ripping into FilthyBeaver are clueless about Kyiv. I work for an American tech company and we are literally paying over 1000 programmers at least $3000 per month. These are nerds from the age of 25-30 and with good English they can make $4000 a month without any problem. The prices have not increased because a few guys are paying too much. They have increased because 10 years ago Kyiv was poor, but now it is a booming tech city. Girls have the option to bang a guy their age that will spoil them or to bang an old foreigner for 2000 uah for one night. The choice is pretty simple for the majority of Ukrainian girls now. My last Tinder girl is two years out of university and making 30000 UAH a month with average skills in graphic design. There are a few other factors like English skills and Instagram, but just walk by all the nice restaurants here in Kyiv and they are full of young Ukrainians. Even a website like Showaround. Five years ago you could meet a beautiful girl for a walk for $5/ hour and now it is $20.

[Desin]

Well, even though I liked your earlier posts FilthyBeaver, these guys have a point in what they are saying. It's something to be considered in general level. If somebody pays now and then a higher amount than usual, okay. Maybe it doesn't have consequences. But if the attitude is "Ohh fuck you guys, I have more money than you and I spent it the way I like", then it's something else. It reveals one's true personality.

The more people pay over the average price, willingly, the more the prices will increase. Taking Rome and Vietnam to this discussion as if they were valid arguments ain't nothing but a bad rhetoric and lack of real arguments to support one's standpoint.

Where I live, 200 euros was a standard and 250 for those who looked really good and knew it. These were the prices on the 'open market', where the ads were for everyone to see. For 100 euro it was possible to find a amateur student, through social media. Now, as this channel became more commonly known for people seeking services, the prices have gone up. It's 200 for the amateurs. This happened in two years (For a year I had most exquisite sex with a petite redhead, doing all kinds of fun of cnc and bondage, with 120 fee each time varying from an hour to three hours. She was found through aforementioned social media. Now that she went public, her price: 300 euros per hour. Because guys are throwing messages to her where the say this. She's had 200 euros for 15 minutes of webcam show. When it happens once, okay. But if it starts to happen regularly, she'd be a fool not to adjust her price up accordingly.

Oh. And as it is a habit in this forum, I'll too throw in my self-congratulations: she told me I was her favorite and that I can always have her for our regular fee, 120. I guess it was all those orgasms I licked her, even though she said only two people had been able to do it previously. But I don't expect to find such a rare treasure again for that price. Not in my country. (luckily, I have another gem for the same price too, but when she'll quit I'm fucked.).

For searching girls in Kiev, I've used this tactic: I mention 100 euros, but not the time. Once I'm there and get a feeling of each girl that I end up meeting, then I can suggest that if they come for a 30-60 min meeting when I ask (depending if I want one or two rounds), they'll get 50 euros each time. If someone I really like doesn't accept this offer, then I can offer more. But all I need for my vacation is one or two good girls who are willing to serve my needs when I ask. One for the day and one for the evening.

I ended up on this 100 euros because that was what was asked each time if I were the one presenting the question.

[Fred54]

This is not pointed at you desin, but I'm going to share what works for me.

I've been quite entertained by people complaining about scams and prices. Take two steps back and consider what you're asking of another person, probably young enough to be your daughter or at a minimum, much younger cousin. To complain about scams and prices is laughable, they have been around as long as the profession and they occur everywhere. When the events of your trip are all said and done it's success all comes down to your attitude and chemistry with the other person and to a very minor extent, what you spent.

Very experienced monger here all over the world. Very very picky, on a recent (first) trip to Kyiv I went to three strip clubs saw three girls I'd actually be willing to pay for and took one so say 3% of the 100 girls I saw (one was not available at any price, one I didn't ask, the last one changed my life) I'd actually be willing to spend time with outside the club. I don't waste my time with mobile apps or agencies, they all lie and they all show pictures that are heavily photoshoped or 5 years & 50 pounds old. No, I buy my girls the way I buy my groceries, in person. And also like my groceries I expect to have to put in a little time and effort to make the ingredients taste the way I like. And just like my cooking skills, sometimes I fuck up some perfectly fine ingredients.

The guys saying the girls are ugly are full of shit. Slavs are total babes, look at all the eastern European supermodels. They're either not willing to spend the money or can't afford talent. I also like them younger than 25. I'm late 40's, short, and not Caucasian. I've been told I'm attractive (by people I haven't paid) but I don't think I am.

Being an English speaker with no Russian or Ukrainian skills, I decided that I would hire a tour guide. I used Show around and found two guides, one from each gender. An attractive female because, hey you never know, and an experienced guy who could get me to the sure thing. The guys are out there and not difficult to find so if you are there for two weeks or less that is the single best piece of advice I can give...

Hi,

A small question please about takeout from a club. This option, if the girl agree, is to go in a restaurant, a walk. Or you also agree on sex before leaving the club?

[FilthyBeaver]

Great, here we go. In case English isn't your first language "people like you" means ignorant morons who want to complain about prices other people pay because it's more than they paid recently or in the past. Back in the Vietnam era you could get a girl in Thailand for $5, why not whine about that? Ancient Romans paid even less and is even less relevant to the discussion.

What someone pays for a service that we're all here to discuss is nobodys business, the whiners need to be thankful people are sharing numbers for edification and education. If you don't like it shut up and move on, you're not going to change my behavior anymore than I'm going to change yours.

Fuckin dolt.

You'll pay more to price others out? I think we all know who the real dolt is in this case.

[VinDici]

What a dolt. The mistake is yours. If you think pussy isn't subject to inflation just like everything else on the planet you're a fool. If you're too cheap to pay someone what they're asking, especially considering what you're asking them to do with their bodies, you'll never understand this. I'll happily pay more to price people like you out.

Higher prices means more attractive girls actually considering this line of work to make whatever ends they need to meet. That is a good thing, because it drives down the price for an average looking girl.

Go back to Pattaya and get a handful of girls from Issan and that's exactly what you'll have for 1500. I like mine from the northwest, they are considerably more expensive and worth every penny. You won't find them in a shithole like Pattaya.

You'll pay more to price others out? I think we all know who the real dolt is in this case.

[Sam0039]

This is such a basic thing, and it's sad that it needs to be pointed out. I've been doing this a long time, and by treating escorts with mutual respect, I get so much more from bookings. Any escorts that mistake my kindness for weakness, are dismissed very quickly, the others however have developed long standing mutually beneficial relationships.

Yes, they are closed, you can read about it further in this thread.

Just search on Keksik and any girls with a blatantly fake picture whose phone number is also connected to Telegram, will be an apartment / salon. You will find more than 10 just by doing a few minutes research.

Can you please explain what you have said in detail? Thanks.

[TinyHippo]

I have seen this mistake being done time and time again and people still don't get it to this very day. I know some lads that have been visiting Pattaya for 20 years now and every 2-3 years they complain about prices going up and quality going down.

But when they have a 9/10 spinner on top of them they are willing to pay 2-3 k baht for an hour. And then they keep wondering why these girls don't go for the standard rates of 1 k anymore. ITS BECAUSE THEY THINK WITH THEIR WIENERS!

Now we are talking about Kiev obviously. Different market, different prices but same rules apply. You pay a girl 3000 UAH a few times and she will be asking for that amount from future Johns as well. And so the spiral begins, next one will be like "I need to fuck her" and offer 3. 500 and that's how you end up with these ridiculous "Escort" ads that ask for 4 k an hour. Mate most girls you can still easily get for 1. 5 k.

One might think that the Covid induced economic impact in the Ukraine would lead to REDUCED prices. Well not if you guys overpay like crazy. In 10 years it will be normal to pay these chicks 3 k for a handjob for fucks sake.

Supply and demand, Boomer. These Mamba girls get a hundred messages a day. There is a Youtube video of a guy making a fake female Tinder account. He pays for Tinder-Pro. So, he can see how many likes he gets and in an hour and it was f'ing 6000+. Also, the first time I was in Ukraine was in 2015. I remember the shuttle bus was 5 UAH and people were complaining and I just paid 12 tonight. Inflation is buzzing fast.

[FilthyBeaver]

What a dolt. The mistake is yours. If you think pussy isn't subject to inflation just like everything else on the planet you're a fool. If you're too cheap to pay someone what they're asking, especially considering what you're asking them to do with their bodies, you'll never understand this. I'll happily pay more to price people like you out.

Higher prices means more attractive girls actually considering this line of work to make whatever ends they need to meet. That is a good thing, because it drives down the price for an average looking girl.

Go back to Pattaya and get a handful of girls from Issan and that's exactly what you'll have for 1500. I like mine from the northwest, they are considerably more expensive and worth every penny. You won't find them in a shithole like Pattaya.

I have seen this mistake being done time and time again and people still don't get it to this very day. I know some lads that have been visiting Pattaya for 20 years now and every 2-3 years they complain about prices going up and quality going down.

But when they have a 9/10 spinner on top of them they are willing to pay 2-3 k baht for an hour. And then they keep wondering why these girls don't go for the standard rates of 1 k anymore. ITS BECAUSE THEY THINK WITH THEIR WIENERS!

Now we are talking about Kiev obviously. Different market, different prices but same rules apply. You pay a girl 3000 UAH a few times and she will be asking for that amount from future Johns as well. And so the spiral begins, next one will be like "I need to fuck her" and offer 3. 500 and that's how you end up with these ridiculous "Escort" ads that ask for 4 k an hour. Mate most girls you can still easily get for 1. 5 k.

[Argo1990]

Not to sound like a ******* but 3000 for someone I find attractive is inexpensive in my book. I'm so picky that I'll almost pay anything for someone who can make be rise before I see them naked.

I have seen this mistake being done time and time again and people still don't get it to this very day. I know some lads that have been visiting Pattaya for 20 years now and every 2-3 years they complain about prices going up and quality going down.

But when they have a 9/10 spinner on top of them they are willing to pay 2-3 k baht for an hour. And then they keep wondering why these girls don't go for the standard rates of 1 k anymore. ITS BECAUSE THEY THINK WITH THEIR WIENERS!

Now we are talking about Kiev obviously. Different market, different prices but same rules apply. You pay a girl 3000 UAH a few times and she will be asking for that amount from future Johns as well. And so the spiral begins, next one will be like "I need to fuck her" and offer 3. 500 and that's how you end up with these ridiculous "Escort" ads that ask for 4 k an hour. Mate most girls you can still easily get for 1. 5 k.

One might think that the Covid induced economic impact in the Ukraine would lead to REDUCED prices. Well not if you guys overpay like crazy. In 10 years it will be normal to pay these chicks 3 k for a handjob for fucks sake.