Kyiv

[Uke Boy]

LJ,

Thanks for taking time to expand on it when it didn't need expanding upon.

Irish Lad's advice is 100% in regards to non working girl, If you take your tact you will come off as a sex tourist.

What takes Irish or anyone else a few quick and succint lines of clear and concise explanation, takes the egotistical vomit mouth LJ forever to bore us to death with his garbage.

LJ, until very recently your posts have promoted one club in particular. The reason you have always given is that you always come here for 3 or so days and want and need to see the girls before taking them home. Nothing else mattered to you, not even Mamba girls since they came sight unseen and that you could NOT tolerate.

Now you are the resident expert about Mamba.

What gives? When did you go over to the dark side of the force?

Or, as I see it, you are just re-writing all that has previously been written by all others about Mamba, now as your "stolen" words of "personally inexperienced" wit and wisdom. And all plagiarized, From my POV, just like Ukrainian president Yanukovich who has since proven to be a plagiarist as well, into what we can say as your,"experience" which in very stark and plain contrast your own earlier written words. Up until now and you have not been here recently, Mamba has not been an option for you.

[Cruiser D]

LJ,

Thanks for taking time to expand on it when it didn't need expanding upon.

Irish Lad's advice is 100% in regards to non working girl, If you take your tact you will come off as a sex tourist.

I basically agree, with a few minor emendations, with everything Irish Lad wrote, except Instruction #8

[LilJoey]

Originally Posted by Irish Lad [View Original Post]

Here's my advice on getting the most out of Mamba.

Searching freebies?

1. Put your location as Kiev.

2. Put up photos.

3. Write that you live and work in Kiev and looking for friends.

4. Start your campaign 2 weeks before coming to Kiev. Be busy with work then away on business until you arrive.

5. Don't mention sex unless it's P4P or she mentions sponsorship or " looking for a GOOD friend".

6. Book an apartment and know it's address before coming.

7. Know some restaurants and bars too. At least the names of them.

8. If asked about sex, explain it's important but that you are not 17 so don't need sex just to have sex.

P4P?

Ignore everything above from 3-8.

9) I know Irish Lad.

Since Irish Lad's advice for chasing freebies is being celebrated by a veteran such as CD, I will add my own comment from the perspective of a monger chasing P4P:

I basically agree, with a few minor emendations, with everything Irish Lad wrote, except Instruction #8 regarding what to say if asked about sex, and his last instruction concerning what to do if you are chasing P4P.

IL wrote that for those chasing "P4P? Ignore everything above from 3-8." However, I say that every one of those Items he wrote above, including items 3 to 8, work quite well, with certain emendations, as I will explain, for a monger like me who is chasing P4P. And I choose to believe that Irish Lad would agree with me, and was just trying to be witty. And lest you thought that it was obvious that IL was joking in his advice on P4P, please consider the case of guys like UsGrant below, and all those similarly situated, who never read this thread enough to have encountered advice similar to IL's advice before, and thinks he discovered the Holy Grail.

So for those chasing P4P, I will add my two cents on the near perfect words penned by IL cited above:

"1. Put your location as Kiev.

2. Put up photos.

3. Write that you live and work in Kiev and looking for friends."

This is important somewhat for p4p too, as even the agencies and hardcore pro's one might find on mamba do not want to waste their time responding to shmucks bothering them from other countries who are not immediate potential customers. They don't have a mindset that sees value in cultivating an international customer base and consider it a waste of their time to answer you if you are not in Kiev right then so as to be able to make a booking at that very moment. Also there are girls who are available at an agency or apartment number at that particular time that you called, who don't care about later times when they won't be there. I have frequently encountered the refusal to reply or give their phone number if I was not in Kiev at the time I was communicating with them on mamba, to know that this advice is correct. And for all the semi pro girls it is also important.

If you are contacting girls much younger than yourself in Kiev on mamba and you are a foreigner coming as a tourist, they have a word for you: "sex tourist", and it's a very bad label, interestingly even for those girls trying to sell sex.

So you must be able to project that you are not a tourist, but at the very least, you are coming to Kiev for business. IL recommends the added step of saying that you also live in Kiev. If you can pull that ruse off as time goes forward then power to you. I believe I read that IL actually does live in Kiev. But For most of us, there will be long absences from Kiev to explain to our new mamba girlfriends in Kiev for the periods in between our mongering trips there, even if we manage to get to Kiev five times a year.

In both cases, whether your story is that you live in Kiev, or that you are coming to Kiev frequently for business, it would be helpful if you indicate on your profile that your location is Kiev. This is easy to do when you are physically located in Kiev, but if you are located in another country, the software for mamba requires you to be located in your country of physical location. Only if you purchase VIP membership on mamba can you change your actual location setting. Is it worth it? IL says yes. I never paid any money on mamba yet, so I don't know. But it would probably help me avoid those interrogations I sometimes have on mamba from girls asking if I am in Kiev, and when I will be there. My story is that I am frequently in Kiev on business and I will be there next on some near date, and I stick to this story. I have no doubt that many of the girls I wrote to that didn't respond to my message, didn't reply because they saw my location was not in Kiev. So maybe I will look into VIP, if I ever don't have enough mamba girls in my personal ready line up.

Regarding the photos, I discussed the pros and cons in a previous post. It's much more important for freebies chasing, but it can be helpful for p4p with independent girls and semi pros. So if you're looking for p4p and you feel you are not getting enough response when your profile has no photo, then put up a photo. If you will not become involved in Skyping and email photo exchanges, I suppose a fake photo somewhat resembling you will work. But I see no real harm in real photos, unless your personal circumstances prohibit it. So photos do help.

"4. Start your campaign 2 weeks before coming to Kiev. Be busy with work then away on business until you arrive.

5. Don't mention sex unless it's P4P or she mentions sponsorship or " looking for a GOOD friend"."

I think that given the tendency of P4p girls to not answer their phones when you finally arrive in Kiev and call them, or they're not available etc, that one needs a lot of potential girl contacts in order to get at least somebody for a date on a given day or evening. So it is a good idea to develop more than a few girl Contacts for P4p. That being the case, I think not adviseable to give more than just two weeks for the investigation phase of the operation. I start messaging for contacts about 2 months before each trip.

I have explained my opinion that all contacts with mamba girls, whether you are seeking freebies or p4p girls, should be pursued in the manner of a man pursuing a normal, not p4p, regular girl. That means don't mention "money" for sex. Let the girl be the first one to bring up money in the context of sex, or sponsorship. This is because of the uncertainty involved in identifying who is a p4p girl on mamba. So the best way is to let the girl identify herself by raising the issue of her receiving money from you. So don't raise the idea of giving her money for having sex, or sponsorship, because if you do, and she is a regular girl, you will have ruined your chances with her for a freebie.

But while one should not raise the issue of "money" in the context of sex, I think it is stifling of the normal conversation between a man and a woman if the subject of sex is entirely verboten. So if it comes up in conversation feel free to discuss it or make jokes about it to the same extent your judgment allows you to in all your interactions with regular women you are dating or pursuing. This depends on the nature and personality of each guy. But normally, a man doesn't "converse" a lot about sex when he is engaged in the attempt at a seduction, he just simply makes a move at the time he feels is right. A man does the sex, instead of talking about it. But if it comes up in conversation, it doesn't have to be avoided, the same way as money for sex needs to be avoided.

"6. Book an apartment and know it's address before coming.

7. Know some restaurants and bars too. At least the names of them."

Good advice.

"8. If asked about sex, explain it's important but that you are not 17 so don't need sex just to have sex."

That sounds like an overly guarded response, and one doesn't want to come off a bit too fastidious. It's a response that dismisses the question, rather than engages and plays with it. I think a young girl wants to know if you've still "got it" sexually.

So if it feels right in the context in which she asked the question, maybe instead you can say that you are a gentleman in all places, but in the bedroom you are a sex maniac. That let's her know that she will be given a thorough working over if she ever lets you get into her pants. Or you might say anything that feels like it would work as a witty or funny comment at the time. Use your own sense of humor or personality, as it the most comfortable boots you could wear. If a girl asks you about sex, and you don't know yet if she is p4p or a regular girl, then just try to understand what her real question is, and respond in a way most conducive to further the relationship and the fun you are having together. I would not say a line that makes you sound all business, with little interest in sex, or that risks making you sound like you are over the hill.

Yet, by way of caveat, it is true that EE women like to assume a very "proper" disposition, that doesn't countenance the freedom with which Americans joke about and speak about sex. But it depends on the moment, I guess.

LJ

[Cruiser D]

Here's my advice on getting the most out of Mamba.

Searching freebies?

1. Put your location as Kiev.

2. Put up photos.

3. Write that you live and work in Kiev and looking for friends.

4. Start your campaign 2 weeks before coming to Kiev. Be busy with work then away on business until you arrive.

5. Don't mention sex unless it's P4P or she mentions sponsorship or " looking for a GOOD friend".

6. Book an apartment and know it's address before coming.

7. Know some restaurants and bars too. At least the names of them.

8. If asked about sex, explain it's important but that you are not 17 so don't need sex just to have sex.

P4P?

Ignore everything above from 3-8.

9) I know Irish Lad.

[UsGrant]

Here's my advice on getting the most out of Mamba.

Searching freebies?

1. Put your location as Kiev.

2. Put up photos.

3. Write that you live and work in Kiev and looking for friends.

4. Start your campaign 2 weeks before coming to Kiev. Be busy with work then away on business until you arrive.

5. Don't mention sex unless it's P4P or she mentions sponsorship or " looking for a GOOD friend".

6. Book an apartment and know it's address before coming.

7. Know some restaurants and bars too. At least the names of them.

8. If asked about sex, explain it's important but that you are not 17 so don't need sex just to have sex.

P4P?

Ignore everything above from 3-8.

Listen to this post! I've been playing on mamba since I read this. Wow! This has great potential!

[GoneWest]

I've been to europe 20+ times. For me not speaking any foreign language it wasnt a problem to get around. When I landed in Kiev it was a totally different story. Yes if you are a very intelligent traveller you could possibly make it ok. I have a book on ukraine with many phrases that cover alot of instances. I'm so glad I found the guide I had before I went there. Even the second time having him was a blessing!

I can't read Russian, not even the alphabet, I only speak about 4 words and I'm not very intelligent. Never been lost in Kiev or any other Ukrainian city and never needed a guide to show me what a restaurant is and what a pharmacy is. I can now even recognise phone shops on my own. A guide is a complete waste of money IMO.

[LilJoey]

I've been to europe 20+ times. For me not speaking any foreign language it wasnt a problem to get around. When I landed in Kiev it was a totally different story. Yes if you are a very intelligent traveller you could possibly make it ok. I have a book on ukraine with many phrases that cover alot of instances. I'm so glad I found the guide I had before I went there. Even the second time having him was a blessing!

It's not a problem, USGrant. I recognized you don't mind spending extra for these guide services, since you reported doing it not only on your very first trip, but also on subsequent trips. So you like to be cared for and don't mind paying extra for the convenience. You're entitled to spend your own money as you see fit.

My post was for other people so that they realize that what you did was not a necessity, but rather an extra. There will always be people who will want to do things themselves, and others who like to pay to have it done for them. To each his own. My view is that you too could have done it all on your own. But you chose to pay someone to help you. I'm happy you had a good time in Kiev. Maybe one day you will remove the training wheels and set foot in Kiev as a monger on an adventure, and dispense with being spoon fed. The sense of adventure has its own rewards, I'm sure you realize.

LJ

[UsGrant]

A guide is a completely unnecessary expense to persons of basic intelligence who can read all the good info contained dispersed throughout the last two years of this thread, and also the info referred to in the Reports of Distinction thread for Kiev.

Only someone that is unwilling to invest the necessary effort in preparing themselves properly for a visit to Kiev, or who simply does not have the time to do so, should contemplate the wasteful step of spending money on a guide.

Be assured that most men of basic intelligence are capable of doing this visit to Kiev without paying for guides, and have been doing so successfully as described throughout this thread.

For example, an intelligent traveller would have become aware that they speak a different language than English in Kiev, and from reading travel sources, or believe it or not from reading this thread, that the street signs were in that language. Therefore, an intelligent man would conclude that in order to function in Kiev, he had better fucking learn the Cyrillic alphabet at least sufficiently to be able to recognize and read street signs, if he expects to leave his apartment or hotel in that city to go somewhere, and be able to expect he will not get lost, and can find his way back.

So, yes, an intelligent traveler makes it his business to get a copy of the Cyrillic alphabet off the Internet and study up on how to read it. We're not talking about becoming fluent in the language here. But just being able to recognize the letters sufficient to slowly read the words and be able to recognize street names, or types of signs one might see over various types of establishments, so that you can know which is a restaurant and which is a pharmacy. This is not rocket science. It is simple respect for the job at hand and the tools necessary for successful completion. Is there a reason why a traveler would go to a country by himself while not knowing how to read the signs there? Only lack of desire to put in the effort, or lack of time to do so could explain that level of unpreparedness for visiting a foreign location. So for such people the answer is. To pay. To pay a guide for what others are doing for themselves.

I remember when I first heard about the FKK's in Germany, and I started reading this forum. And I read about FKK tours one could take that you had to pay a lot for, but they would take you to the "best" FKK clubs. Since I read a little and saw there was diverse opinion on it, and I didn't know which were the best ones to visit, I thought isn't that cool? I can pay a tour company to take me around and show me. But it cost quite a bit. Maybe it's worth it, I asked myself. I don't know how to get around in Germany. I don't know which road to take, which train to take, which bus to take. Hell, I don't know the address of the place I want to go to. But then I continued reading the threads, and the information was all there. Which clubs, their addresses, which trains, exactly how to go, where to go, and what to do when I got there, and how much it should cost, and how to negotiate, and what to watch out for etc, etc. It was all there in the threads on the FKK's. So I junked the idea of paying for a guide to show me the FKK's, and rang the fucking doorbells myself. It was an adventure, but it was one I was prepared for well by my fellow members on ISG who had shared their info and insights on this forum.

And so it was in Kiev.

So I say, if you are coming to Kiev to monger, only consider a guide, if you are unwilling to prepare for your trip yourself, or you lack the time to do so. Or perhaps if you have specialized non-mongering needs, such as when you are coming to Kiev for business.

IMHO.

LJ

I've been to europe 20+ times. For me not speaking any foreign language it wasnt a problem to get around. When I landed in Kiev it was a totally different story. Yes if you are a very intelligent traveller you could possibly make it ok. I have a book on ukraine with many phrases that cover alot of instances. I'm so glad I found the guide I had before I went there. Even the second time having him was a blessing!

[Irish Lad]

Here's my advice on getting the most out of Mamba.

Searching freebies?

1. Put your location as Kiev.

2. Put up photos.

3. Write that you live and work in Kiev and looking for friends.

4. Start your campaign 2 weeks before coming to Kiev. Be busy with work then away on business until you arrive.

5. Don't mention sex unless it's P4P or she mentions sponsorship or " looking for a GOOD friend".

6. Book an apartment and know it's address before coming.

7. Know some restaurants and bars too. At least the names of them.

8. If asked about sex, explain it's important but that you are not 17 so don't need sex just to have sex.

P4P?

Ignore everything above from 3-8.

[YummyPL]

.and rang the fucking doorbells myself. It was an adventure.

Exactly! I have not had time to complete my last Kiev post from my series of posts but I saw this and had to comment. Isn't this what life is about?

[Cruiser D]

Just go to the clubs and use mamba. Mamba will hook you up with the salons, pro's and semi pro's. Too easy. No need for a guide, unless it's Irish Lad.

So I say, if you are coming to Kiev to monger, only consider a guide, if you are unwilling to prepare for your trip yourself, or you lack the time to do so. Or perhaps if you have specialized non-mongering needs, such as when you are coming to Kiev for business.

IMHO.

LJ

[Prosal]

So, yes, an intelligent traveler makes it his business to get a copy of the Cyrillic alphabet off the Internet and study up on how to read it. We're not talking about becoming fluent in the language here. But just being able to recognize the letters sufficient to slowly read the words and be able to recognize street names, or types of signs one might see over various types of establishments, so that you can know which is a restaurant and which is a pharmacy. This is not rocket science.

This is the most usefull advice one can give. Understanding the alphabet is vital to move around. Here is a great page to learn it: (place your cursor over each letter to listen to the alphabet as it's spoken)

http://www.languageguide.org/russian/alphabet/

Learn it by both writing and speaking it (writing solidifies the visual comprehension). Do it for 30 minutes a day for three weeks and you will have learned it permanently. A tip, make excercises by writing girls names (Tatiana, Irina, Masha, ect) or cities names (Vladivostok, Volgograd, Novokuznestk, ect) in cyrillic. It's easy, fun and efficient.

BTW printed letters and cursive letters are slightly different. This other page helps with how to make (and be able to read) those cursive letters:

http://www.brown.edu/Departments/LRC...ing/index.htm#

[LilJoey]

If you haven't been to Kiev or ukraine you must make sure you have a good guide. Again I'm recommending the one I had alex. I'm so use to signs in english. All the signs in ukraine are in cyrillic! I don't know how I could have made it around without one! The girls I found on the internet I showed to my guide alex he sceened them all. He called them and interrogated them to make sure I wasnt going to get cheated. He found me a nice apartment right off of kreschatik. I'm sure there are many people who can show you around but I can't recommend him enough. I've used him twice. I'm hoping to go back again this summer. Check him out in the classifieds.

A guide is a completely unnecessary expense to persons of basic intelligence who can read all the good info contained dispersed throughout the last two years of this thread, and also the info referred to in the Reports of Distinction thread for Kiev.

Only someone that is unwilling to invest the necessary effort in preparing themselves properly for a visit to Kiev, or who simply does not have the time to do so, should contemplate the wasteful step of spending money on a guide.

Be assured that most men of basic intelligence are capable of doing this visit to Kiev without paying for guides, and have been doing so successfully as described throughout this thread.

For example, an intelligent traveller would have become aware that they speak a different language than English in Kiev, and from reading travel sources, or believe it or not from reading this thread, that the street signs were in that language. Therefore, an intelligent man would conclude that in order to function in Kiev, he had better fucking learn the Cyrillic alphabet at least sufficiently to be able to recognize and read street signs, if he expects to leave his apartment or hotel in that city to go somewhere, and be able to expect he will not get lost, and can find his way back.

So, yes, an intelligent traveler makes it his business to get a copy of the Cyrillic alphabet off the Internet and study up on how to read it. We're not talking about becoming fluent in the language here. But just being able to recognize the letters sufficient to slowly read the words and be able to recognize street names, or types of signs one might see over various types of establishments, so that you can know which is a restaurant and which is a pharmacy. This is not rocket science. It is simple respect for the job at hand and the tools necessary for successful completion. Is there a reason why a traveler would go to a country by himself while not knowing how to read the signs there? Only lack of desire to put in the effort, or lack of time to do so could explain that level of unpreparedness for visiting a foreign location. So for such people the answer is. To pay. To pay a guide for what others are doing for themselves.

I remember when I first heard about the FKK's in Germany, and I started reading this forum. And I read about FKK tours one could take that you had to pay a lot for, but they would take you to the "best" FKK clubs. Since I read a little and saw there was diverse opinion on it, and I didn't know which were the best ones to visit, I thought isn't that cool? I can pay a tour company to take me around and show me. But it cost quite a bit. Maybe it's worth it, I asked myself. I don't know how to get around in Germany. I don't know which road to take, which train to take, which bus to take. Hell, I don't know the address of the place I want to go to. But then I continued reading the threads, and the information was all there. Which clubs, their addresses, which trains, exactly how to go, where to go, and what to do when I got there, and how much it should cost, and how to negotiate, and what to watch out for etc, etc. It was all there in the threads on the FKK's. So I junked the idea of paying for a guide to show me the FKK's, and rang the fucking doorbells myself. It was an adventure, but it was one I was prepared for well by my fellow members on ISG who had shared their info and insights on this forum.

And so it was in Kiev.

So I say, if you are coming to Kiev to monger, only consider a guide, if you are unwilling to prepare for your trip yourself, or you lack the time to do so. Or perhaps if you have specialized non-mongering needs, such as when you are coming to Kiev for business.

IMHO.

LJ

[UsGrant]

At least I am not coming on here writing "Looking for young escort girl in Kiev for my trip next week, any advice?" LOL. I am not lazy and I have been reading this forum for about 3 months now and have read back many pages (I think reading back too far is not good since things change with time). I know some of the same things will be repeated on this forum and the same questions will be asked, but that is because we are all here looking for the same thing! I think it is great to have continuing discussions about Mamba and I would love it if even more people wrote about their experiences. I know I will once all is said and done!

If you haven't been to Kiev or ukraine you must make sure you have a good guide. Again I'm recommending the one I had alex. I'm so use to signs in english. All the signs in ukraine are in cyrillic! I don't know how I could have made it around without one! The girls I found on the internet I showed to my guide alex he sceened them all. He called them and interrogated them to make sure I wasnt going to get cheated. He found me a nice apartment right off of kreschatik. I'm sure there are many people who can show you around but I can't recommend him enough. I've used him twice. I'm hoping to go back again this summer. Check him out in the classifieds.

[Member #4722]

Honestly, I do feel like typing RTFF sometimes when I see a newbie asking a question in such manner as it's obvious he's making no effort in that direction. Then often enough I ask myself why I even need to post an RTFF message, and simply remain silent. But this fellow did PM me and looking at his detailed questions and his mistakes in trying to get results I felt he was a guy that deserved a good response and some guidance. Look at his post below, and give some of your mamba tips too.

At least I am not coming on here writing "Looking for young escort girl in Kiev for my trip next week, any advice?" LOL. I am not lazy and I have been reading this forum for about 3 months now and have read back many pages (I think reading back too far is not good since things change with time). I know some of the same things will be repeated on this forum and the same questions will be asked, but that is because we are all here looking for the same thing! I think it is great to have continuing discussions about Mamba and I would love it if even more people wrote about their experiences. I know I will once all is said and done!