Kyiv

[It Travel]

Although a newbie, you made all the right moves for visiting Kiev. Read the forum and planned according to your own tastes and style. All is possible in Kiev given enough time but for a short visit I feel you made and got the most anyone could out of a visit here. I consider your reports a true account of what is possible given your approach and appreciate the high density of information contained in them.

As discussed in PMs, your account of the 2 girls you met is 100% accurate as I also met them coincidently as have other visitors I know. Nice girls but not supermodels.

Yep IL... for good sex you do not need supermodels... nice normal ones (as we both know) are far better!

IT

PS will be soon there...

[CallSign Papa]

I was mislead by reports and tv documentaries saying that ukraine was becoming like Thailand and I decided to take a vacation there.

Yeah, because the TV is never wrong.

Next time RTFF BEFORE you spend time and money holidaying in Kiev.

You mention clubs for meeting girls, what about the parks, the malls, cafe's, the streets. It's summer, they're all out there to be had. You expected them all to come running to your feet because you've got designer jeans and $500 in your pocket?

And you went with a basic knowledge of Russian, or you expected the dyevs to speak your language in their own city?

sorry you had a shit time but where are the reports for the 3 girls?

[Irish Lad]

I still consider myself a newbie in Kiev. I have now been there 3 times this year, so I’m starting to learn the game. All beginning is difficult, and like most newbies I have also made mistakes, overpaid and been scammed. However, as honest as I am about these facts, I am equally honest in my reports about prices, facts etc. ISG was a huge help for me before my first visit, and I want my reports to be a help for other newbies… by writing trustworthy reports.

Although a newbie, you made all the right moves for visiting Kiev. Read the forum and planned according to your own tastes and style. All is possible in Kiev given enough time but for a short visit I feel you made and got the most anyone could out of a visit here. I consider your reports a true account of what is possible given your approach and appreciate the high density of information contained in them.

As discussed in PMs, your account of the 2 girls you met is 100% accurate as I also met them coincidently as have other visitors I know. Nice girls but not supermodels.

[Sebans]

I was mislead by reports and tv documentaries saying that ukraine was becoming like Thailand and I decided to take a vacation there. Even if I had decided not to go to ex-comunnist countries anymore after poor experiences of the years before in other area countries.

There are hot girls in the streets of Kiev, but in every city there are hot girls in the streets. What I wanted iis a place where I could find a lot of stunning young girls and easy pull up them for no more that 50 dollars per night as I'm used in brazil, Philippines and Thailand, but I failed miserly in Kiev

I visited the following clubs: Arena, Avalon, Caribbean, River palace, Vodka bar after midnight to find the place full of semi-pro girls as expected, but what I found were many Ukrainan men and many more middle eastern, turkish and iranian men looking for girls like me.

But the girls boys ratio is one girl each 2 men and the few semi-pros were soon taken.

The average price quoted is $ 200 that at first seemed too much for a poor country lik. E ukraine, but being there so few girls compared to men it is after all the right price.

I always counterofferd $ 100 and suceeded in getting 3 girls on my whole stay since after the first week I stopped going out and loosing my time.

Kiev is not a place for quick pull up of girlsd an even if you are ready to spend 200 or 300 dollars there are a lot of iranian, and turkish men that will take the girl before you.

Now I'm Very happy to go back to italy and plan my next mongering vacation in one of my usual places.

[Kurenda]

Should be posted in other areas; however, I reside in a provicial city in East Ukraine

So when we are going to see some good report on Lugansk?

[Jojosun]

The best way I found to get the hot ones of RP, and there are quite few of them, at discounted prices is the following.

Everytime I got approached by a hot one, I just tell her I can only meet her the following day early evening (give me your phone no, I call you, says I).

I never discussed prices, but when I did phone some of them the following day they were more than willing to do few hours for $150. Happy hour prices.

I am sure the semi pros and there were some students, would even accept $100, in the afternoon.

[Mellowtrax]

1. Why should you lie that your last 2 young hot girls cost you $190 for 24 hours?

Uhhh, let's see, because no one has yet invented telling a lie?

Why don't you just prove it, and post one photo?

2. Bad pizza sucks! Throw that shit out. Eating bad pizza is for schmucks! Go find the good stuff.

3. I don't REALLY need to fuck 10 girls a week, it just takes me that many to find one or two that I really want to fuck again, because to be honest, most are really just average, only a few are what we like to call superstars. And they are what its all about. So I guess I really do!

Hi Bez,

1. I did post some photos in my Kiev report (#6565) to give some perspective. You might have missed them. I wrote that I met with two girls for 2 days for 750 USD (6000 UAH); or 190 USD each for 24 hours. Pics of the girls are 5+6 in my report. Or do you want me to take pics of the money exchanging hands or a photo of a receipt?

2. The problem with bad pizza is that you pay for the pizza before you taste it. As I wrote in one of my previous reports I don’t pay the full amount to start with. Half when we meet, the rest when she leaves. This often motivates the girls to perform and keep the deal (services that we agreed to).

3. I guess we all have different method of operation. Personally, I hate disappointments. That’s why I spend a lot of time to correspond with the girls before we meet to avoid fucking 10 girls to find 1 or 2 to keep. Of course you can still get disappointed, but knowing the girls in advance helps me to decrease the risk of disappointment compared to calling a random chick from Top-models or Minuet.

About quotation. You did it again. You quoted me for writing “Sex is like pizza, when it’s bad it’s still good. I don’t throw it out”. What I actually wrote was “In that case I don’t eat up and throw the rest out and hope my next pizza is excellent“. You see my point? The word ”don’t” in your quotation completely changes the meaning of what I wrote.

I still consider myself a newbie in Kiev. I have now been there 3 times this year, so I’m starting to learn the game. All beginning is difficult, and like most newbies I have also made mistakes, overpaid and been scammed. However, as honest as I am about these facts, I am equally honest in my reports about prices, facts etc. ISG was a huge help for me before my first visit, and I want my reports to be a help for other newbies… by writing trustworthy reports.

Finally a little perspective about prices in Kiev. Prices are vague. What I pay for a girl is not necessarily the same other people pay. It all depends on services, the market and circumstances. It turns out that another monger only paid the two girls, whom I paid 1400 UAH, 1000 UAH, and in this case also for 2 hours and the same services. Does this mean that I overpaid 400 UAH? Perhaps. Or maybe the girls liked the other guy more than me. Or maybe the other guy is a better negotiator. Or maybe the girls were more in need of money then. These questions will never be answered. Only GIA and other sites have set prices. On Mamba the code word is in deed negotiate, negotiate, negotiate!

Mellow

[Bez Bezarra]

Hi Bez

Please don’t call me a liar.

If you want to quote me then why edit me?

1. Sex is like pizza, when it’s bad it’s still good. I don’t throw it out and hope my next pizza is excellent.

2. I paid my two young and hot last girls 190 USD for 24 hours. Why should I lie?

3. We are all different regarding taste and desire. I don’t need to fuck 10 or 20 different girls in a week.

Some people are just better negotiating than you are?

Mel

Dearest Mel,

You certainly are a mellow fellow! No hard feelings, ok? I really admire you, so don't get the wrong idea.

If I wanted to call you a liar, I would have written, "Trix is a bloody liar!" Please re-check my post and you'll notice that's not there.

Why edit your quote?

Simply for time and content, my esteemed colleague, that's all. The purpose is to cut out what's not necessary, AND to put the stress exactly where it needs to be. Most people write a lot of extraneous material that makes the important point, that I am emphasizing has a problem, a little less clear. Editing just boils it down to the realest deal. Many writers don't get that, but the point is, most readers do.

You make the most important point of all, and that's why I like your style.

Thank God we all have different taste, it would be so incredibly boring if we all wanted the same thing!

And another gem, Sex IS Pizza! Hell yes!

Now let's disagree.

Bad pizza sucks! Throw that shit out. Eating bad pizza is for schmucks! Go find the good stuff. Don't lower yourself and settle for crap when good stuff is out there somewhere.

Why should you lie that your last 2 young hot girls cost you $190 for 24 hours?
Uhhh, let's see, because no one has yet invented telling a lie?
Why don't you just prove it, and post one photo?
You'll go from suspicious to instantly credible.
Young and hot on your scale could be a 25 year old mother of 3.
On my scale, what you call young and hot could be a 4 out of 10.
Post some pics, give us some perspective.
If you're not afraid to.
Remember, that's your duty as a member of this forum, to do the most that you can to contribute.
Anyone can write how hot some girl was.
Only someone credible will back that up with a photo.
The rest are just, well, testicularly challenged.

I don't REALLY need to fuck 10 girls a week, it just takes me that many to find one or two that I really want to fuck again, because to be honest, most are really just average, only a few are what we like to call superstars. And they are what its all about. So I guess I really do!

Separate the wheat from the chaff, as they say.

Now let's agree again.

I AM absolutely one of the world's WORST negotiators! No doubt about it.

Now this depends of course. If I am standing in the doorway of some cat house in the provinces with my Russian driver, and some mamachka tells me that she wants $100 an hour for her new girl, even if she's 18 and cute and just started working yesterday, I'll still get her to come down to $60. Because if I don't, I've already instructed my driver to kick my ass. In fact, I just let him speak for me. I know, I'm a lazy bastard, but that's what I pay him for anyway, and he earns it, every kopek.

But if I find Miss Superstar styudenka through Mamba or my many other sources, take her out for chai, and get her up to my flat, and she is sitting, or even worse, seductively posing, in front of me, dangling her perfectly untouched body and angelic face a few inches from my filthy imagination, wiggling her little butt in my nose, and batting her beautiful eyes at me, my negotiating skills just took a 50 mile hike, and I can barely speak the words, "anything, anything you want, my angel!!!"

That's just the way it is, cause that's what its all about.

Last comment. Due to some difficulties, I haven't returned to the Ukrainian provinces since 2008, so I can't comment on what girls are willing to currently accept from an old fart like Bez, since the kreesis has affected the economy. And the Russian provinces that I have visited since then, are by no means, way the hell far out in bumfuckistan, so the price of everything of quality there is NOT cheap, kreesis or not. So I would listen to an Expert like our colleague Mr. Reiner Otto, who HAS been out there in the trenches carrying on the good fight.

He is the man. Now.

But I shall return.

[Uphigh]

On my way back from the provinces I had one night in Kiev. Since I was there, I wanted to see some of the places for myself. I'm a thrifty traveller so I was travelling by metro. First I went to shooters. I understand from the forum that there it's mix of pros, semi-pros and civilians. It's probably a ten minute walk from the Arsenalna metro station and was easy to find. I got there about nine and it was dead. Staff were friendly and the prices were reasonable. I think there was a cover charge, but I had arrived early enough to miss it.

Since shooters was dead and I knew I wanted to see River Palace with what little time I had, I headed out the door. I rode the metro one more stop (to Dnipro station), which is practically within spitting distance of River Palace. I headed in. The staff were friendly. It was dead at first, with only 3 or 4 girls. But around 10: 30 more started to arrive. By probably 11 it was probably up to 25 girls, and more girls than guys. I'm sure it gets busier later.

Firstly, a blond names Lisa sat beside me and started to work on me. She started at $300 and dropped immediately to $200 for an hour. I'm thrifty, got a bad vibe from her, and at that time didn't care whether I got any action or not (until later, when I started thinking with my dick). I offered $150 and she didn't move from $200. Later she asked me to pay for her 36UA drink, saying it was nothing for me. I'm frankly a bit tired of Ukrainians asking me to pay for stuff because "it's nothing for me", and I told her so. At home when I go out with rich friends I wouldn't send the bill to them because it's "nothing" to them. I still believe that normal Ukrainians aren't full-time money suckers, but there are plenty who are.

Next comes the stupid me part. Having determined that Lisa was not Ms. Right Now, I dropped over to the next table. And they saw me coming. Did I mention that I was about to be stupid? Blonde Olya and Brunnette Lena. Olya say early 30's and a 6 on the Ukraine looks scale, Lena probably mid 20's and a 7. 5 (in other words, being a Ukrainian 7. 5 Lena was a normal hot Ukrainian chick, or by way of reference a girl where in the west everyone would say shit that chick is HOT). Olya says $200. I say I'm on a budget but could do $150. Olya says ok 150, and it's for both of us. Alarm bells should have been ringing at that point. So we leave. Taxi to sauna 150 UA (ripoff). Sauna 200UA (normal). Then Olya says we agreed on 200 euros, not 200 dollars. Should have walked out right there. But I was stupid. So now we're up to $200 (which I didn't realize at the time is more than 150 euros, but are you surprised?). And they want $10 each for taxi. Then we hit the bedroom. Lena starts sucking my cock like a banshee. I reach for Olya thinking that I might as well enjoy her at the same time. Olya says pussy licking is an extra 300 and when I try to pull Olya over to touch her body Lena say "please, not comfortable". Yes, you can see how all this is going.

Lena jumps on me and starts riding me super hard and fast. Usually I don't come quickly, but I hadn't come for a few days, and she was riding me really hard. I almost came. Lena jumps off, changes condoms, and Olya jumps on. I came right away. Shit. Then they say flip over and we'll give you a massage. They proceed to give me a lame-ass massage for about 5 minutes, and then they hit the showers. At this point there wasn't much I could do. All of this took way less than an hour. I'm a nice guy and it's not in my nature to start yelling at people and blocking doorways, etc., and I'm sure Olya and Lena realized that and used it to their advantage. I did give them a pretty hard time and told them that they knew damn well it was unfair, but there wan't much to be done. Olya heading home to Boryspol, one foreigner fleeced, a night of work done. Lena headed I don't know where.

Conclusions: unlike me, use your brain. Forum members have said time and time again that especially in a place like river Palace, agree on exactly how much and exactly what is included. I stupidly did not follow this simple advice. Also, among the many things that went wrong, I would lean towards not taking two girls at once. It's a bit easier to browbeat one girl into giving you what she owes you, bit when two of them are chirping at you in a mix of Russian and English at a mile a minute it becomes harder to be forceful.

Anyway, a pretty pathetic performance by me, but I hope this helps emphasize the excellent advice given by others that you must agree on exactly what's included, and that River Palace can be a shark tank. Also, I would consider insisting on paying half at the beginning and half at the end, because girls like Olya and Lena were going to rip me off no matter how what was agreed on, so I think the only thing that would have kept them honest would have been to pay half at the end.

[Timmy21]

Should be posted in other areas; however, I reside in a provicial city in East Ukraine, I would say it's very doable to find a nice 18-20 yr. Old for around $150 all night, adaquate performance, and all night means 20:00, to 08:00, keep in mind I am not saying you'll find a price like this on Mamba.

[Reiner Otto]

2. Don't know about Mr. Mellow here, but even in the provinces, you'll be EXTREMELY lucky to find some 18 year old hottie that is willing to accept anything less than $150 for TWO hours, so you can forget about $250 for 24 hours.

Ok, I also have problems to find 18 year oldhotti. But beginning of 20ies, 7-8, standard rate is 300UHA-350UHA per hour.
I am really wondering, what you are considering provinces .... Of course, during summertime inYalta, prices are definitely higher.

[Mellowtrax]

As usual, its the Bez that has to enforce the truth here.

1. How exactly is, "spread your legs right now or get out and no money", not sex on command, which if its not good, then bother anyway?

2. Don't know about Mr. Mellow here, but even in the provinces, you'll be EXTREMELY lucky to find some 18 year old hottie that is willing to accept anything less than $150 for TWO hours, so you can forget about $250 for 24 hours.

3. How does a monger deal with 10 or 20 different dyevs he's trying to date, by keeping ANY 1 dyev around for 24 or 48 hours?

Please do not reply to any of these, they are rhetorical, and intended to create some logical thinking. Not attacks for exposing BS.

Hi Bez

Please don’t call me a liar and then expect me not to react.

First of all, if you want to quote what I wrote you shouldn’t edit it to your own behalf. It might be small changes, and you may respond that it makes no difference, but then why edit it in the first place?

I wrote “USUALLY, sex on command is not good” and “I prefer (to have sex) when to girl ALSO wants to”.

1. Yes, I’ve had sex a couple of times on command with reluctant girls who just wanted to get paid without having sex This was not good sex. But sex is like pizza. Even when it’s bad it’s still pretty good. That’s why I bother! However, nobody wants to eat bad pizza every day. In that case I don’t eat up and throw the rest out and hope my next pizza is excellent.

2. It’s very possible to find girls for 250 USD (2000 Grivna) for 24 hours. Actually, I only paid each of my two last girls 190 USD (1500 Grivna) for 24 hours (6000 Grivna in total). And in my opinion, they are both young and hot. After posting my Kiev report I have received quite a lot PM’s. Why should I lie about the prices and then give the contact info for the girls to other mongers just for them to find out that the prices are BS?

3. We are all different regarding taste and desire. Personally, I prefer quality over quantity. When I’m in Kiev I prefer to have all my dates planned in advance. If I find 3, 4 or 5 girls I like I’ll stick with them. I don’t need to fuck 10 or 20 different girls in a week.

You are fully entitled to think I’m a liar. Of course you are. Or maybe some people are just better negotiating than you are?

Mellow

[Jojosun]

I do. I think Flirt is more user-friendly than Mamba. However, Mamba has more features than Flirt (20 photos on top and more VIP-stuff).

Furthermore, when I get a new message in Russian from a girl, I can only copy and paste the text into a translator if I open the message through Mamba. Only after 3 or 4 messages I can also do it through Flirt.

Very strange.

Here is how I respond to girls looking for a sponsor on Flirt.

$$$? How MUCH?

Anglisky? English.

If they respond, they will quote you either in $$$ or grievnsa per hour.

Some won't, they just drag it on a bit.

They are looking for a longer Sponsorship arrangement.

I met my first girl in Kiev, this way.

[Jojosun]

I do. I think Flirt is more user-friendly than Mamba. However, Mamba has more features than Flirt (20 photos on top and more VIP-stuff).

Furthermore, when I get a new message in Russian from a girl, I can only copy and paste the text into a translator if I open the message through Mamba. Only after 3 or 4 messages I can also do it through Flirt.

Very strange.

I had more contacts for girls in Kiev on Flirt, than for Mamba.

On mamba made contacts for Russian girls in London.

I never knew so many Russian girls are now living in London and the Uk.

One of them ebraced capitalism so quickly, that she wanted me to pre cover her expenses for our first meeting.

Ie I pay for her Hairdo, makeup, clothes and Taxi fare.

So I countered, by saying I will be coming to a Pub near you. No need for taxi.

Your other expenses is part of your profile, which you have to sell to me, and I can't help you selling yourself to me or anyone else.

Talking about the Nany State.

[Bez Bezarra]

I keep the girl with me 24/7 to do other things besides sex.

Sex on command is not good.

I prefer sex when the girl wants to.

However, if a girl says “not now, later", I tell them that “either NOW or no money and you can go”.

Regarding the length of the sponsorship: Usually I start with 24 hours for 250 USD.

As usual, its the Bez that has to enforce the truth here.

1. How exactly is, "spread your legs right now or get out and no money", not sex on command, which if its not good, then bother anyway?

2. Don't know about Mr. Mellow here, but even in the provinces, you'll be EXTREMELY lucky to find some 18 year old hottie that is willing to accept anything less than $150 for TWO hours, so you can forget about $250 for 24 hours.

3. How does a monger deal with 10 or 20 different dyevs he's trying to date, by keeping ANY 1 dyev around for 24 or 48 hours?

Please do not reply to any of these, they are rhetorical, and intended to create some logical thinking. Not attacks for exposing BS.