Kyiv

[HunterDave]

Hey guys, went to Rio last night, after spending about 1000 uah on different girls in private dances to test them out, I tried to pull my favorite back. She spoke broken english, but was basically telling me it was closed and if I came back tomorrow she would come home with me. Not sure if she fully understood. However the club still definitely seemed to be open it was about 4am.

I'm going to go through the reports and try and figure out the strategy, but I've been striking out with freebies, and now at RIO.

Anyone have any girls I could email / call to hook up with in Kiev? Not sure if this is an appropriate question, but I've only got a couple more nights and this has been harder than I expected. In prague I just called a phone number, met up and had an amazing girl. Looks like I need more research.

J,

Just PM'd you with some assistance.

Hunter

[Stevie69]

Some recent comments might be better suited for the ""dating" Russian women" section, but that is okay. I read and contribute to the Kiev section mostly. As a preamble I might add that I live somewhere int he FSU, but I do not indulge in my own city, but I Kiev is one of my top vacation destinations (twice this year so far).

Anyway, yes,"Russian" women are a different breed. In North America they screw you when they divorce you; in FSU they get nothing from a divorce, so they screw you before, as much as possible, particularly if they are not interested in you. However, they are also very pragmatic about sex. I once had a St pet "girlfriends" (using the term loosely, of course) who one time we were out, got really upset with me because she was getting too out of control at a bar so I cut her off took her to our hotel room. Yet, when we got up to the room, after arguing and screaming for 5 minutes she unashamedly asked me to have sex with her, and proceeded to have angry, hard sex. Very pragmatic; what better way to change her mood, she figured!

About buying drinks for them, one thing I like about some real Russian women is that they like beer, not those expensive girly drinks. Of course, if they are trying to squeeze money out of you they will ask for the girly drinks. Anyway, I never offer to buy drinks until they have talked to me for at least 5 minutes. Sometimes I even forgo approaching an empty-handed drink, which at least gives me a little time before buying a drink becomes an option. If they ASK for a drink I say either (1) that I would feel guilty if we have sex just because I got her drunk or (2) that a classy lady makes a man want to offer a drink, but never ASKS for one. Both lines are potential game enders, depending on how she reacts. If she react negatively, however, you really did not want her.

Another useful strategy (with a girl you do not know well) is to always order yourself. Whether at a bar or a restaurant, ask her what she wants, tell her to show it to you in the menu, and then order it yourself. Not only does it save you money, but it shows that YOU are dominant and it is YOUR money. THe girl might be less tempted to order the 20 USD drink just to screw you, and might be a little disappointed, but she will respect you for taking control and being dominant. The girl will try to order directly from the waitress, and the waitress will try to talk to the girl, so you have to be forceful with both. Make it clear to both that you pay only for what YOU order.

About little supermodels, in their minds, they hate being ignored, but they hate even more being the source of amusement. Sometimes, I pretend not to notice them, and they will pretend not to see me either, to the point of physically bumping into me to get my attention. When I do look, I usually give them a an admiring yet amused look, which says "yes, you look good, but really, it is funny that you would need to dress like that, and act like such a little *****". And when they dance for you, look and appreciate, wait until they finish, and go talk to them. Thank them for dancing so beautifully, and yes, perhaps offer a drink as a refreshment before the 5 minute mark if she agrees to dance for you (or with you) again.

Anyway, I just wanted to concur that FSU women are strange for "western" standards in that, at first, do not really appreciate men who respect and care for them. You have to play this game in which you act like a bit of an jerk. I think you always have to act as if you have plenty of other opportunities, so you can dismiss them without any problem, and that YOU are in control, not them.

[Johnny204]

Hey guys, went to Rio last night, after spending about 1000 uah on different girls in private dances to test them out, I tried to pull my favorite back. She spoke broken english, but was basically telling me it was closed and if I came back tomorrow she would come home with me. Not sure if she fully understood. However the club still definitely seemed to be open it was about 4am.

I'm going to go through the reports and try and figure out the strategy, but I've been striking out with freebies, and now at RIO.

Anyone have any girls I could email / call to hook up with in Kiev? Not sure if this is an appropriate question, but I've only got a couple more nights and this has been harder than I expected. In prague I just called a phone number, met up and had an amazing girl. Looks like I need more research.

[Sorbonne]

I thought this may be of interest to readers of this thread. Compare Ukraine with other FSU states. Smily.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14489883

[Prosal]

You have to show girls that you have an overwhelming self-esteem.

Right on the money. Never show uncertainty, and never let her doubt she is lucky to be with you.

[Hecker]

It is very common situation. They start asking for drinks, then sushi, then presents from shopping and then there is sex. So you had not even money to pass the sushi stage. Many westerners are ready to provide this all for them and they have done the same several times. If you start calculating money in Ukraine you are lost and better leave while you still have money. In no way you can calculate exact spending with a girl they constantly bring up more demands.

[Guntherus]

http://www.donezk-dreams.com/

Given all we know about Kiev, these seems like a scam.

They demand a down payment. That is the first hint of a scam. My advice to everyone: Refuse it, and then see what happens. RoBuz

[East Explorer]

Is this just a bad start or am I playing the game wrong? I thought the soft sell was best. I never walk up and go "hey you, you want to F me? I pay you X amount"

Comments

This report reminds me of when I was for the first time in an FSU country 9 years ago. I had no clue about FSU girls and spoke just a few words of Russian. The only difference was that it was much easier to pick good looking freebies than it is now. I could just stay at the bar and girls would come and pull me to the dance floor. Those paradisiacal times are gone. (Especially in cities like Kiev, Moscow, SPB, Minsk or Riga)

Some years ago I had an interesting experience in Minsk with an expat who was working there. We went to a rather posh nightclub where we had booked a table. After a while we spot 2 girls at the bar and invite them to our table for some Champaign and cocktails (a brunette and a blonde, both 19 years, slim and tall). My friend is going for the blonde (as always) and has a great time with her. I take the brunette, but she seems to be rather spoiled and not interested into have a good time. So I go to the dance floor, and start to dance with some other cuties that were looking at our table. After some fun I return to our table to tell my friend that I will leave for another girl. My friend (who speaks perfectly Russian) is looking at me and then starts to shout with the brunette because she does not show enough respect me. He is telling her to change her behavior or to leave immediately our table. I was feeling kind of sorry for her, but my friend told me to relax. Guess what! After 5 minutes the brunette was hanging on my neck! After one hour we were together in my apartment!

That what Prosal is writing about FSU girls is absolutely right. If you are in an FSU country you have to reset your brain and forget everything you have learnt about (western) girls. In an FSU country you are the man and always have to prevail. She has to feel that she is always depending on you and never that you are depending on her. You can be nice to her but always rebuke her if she is not behaving according to your expectations. And if she does not agree, then to hell with her! There are many others girls who will be happy to meet you.

Of course this requires some experience in handling FSU girls. You have to show girls that you have an overwhelming self-esteem. You have to be able to interpret what girls think and want. And in my experience, if you speak some Russian, they will respect you much more.

[AColonizer]

I can't read everything of this report (and the Barba's one) carefully because I see our common experiences of "human being" running in front of my eyes.

Yes, that is the situation about the female world and the Eastern female. Now it is clear the reason I define them as females, and not as women, because they behave exactly as a biologic machine: when the social / economic situation is not good, their target is a Cock and a family (stability) for their Children (double C) , when the social / economic situation is good, their target is to cheat as much as possible to get Cash as much as possible (triple C).

It doesn't make sense to have any good feelings for them and much less sense to give money to them. The truth is what we, Western men, see in the real world, that is the opposite what Eastern people say.

First example: we clearly see a Slavic man with a Slavic woman at the restaurant (and they are not husband and wife) , Slavic man pays for his own bill and Slavic woman pays for her own bill, instead when there is a Western man with a Slavic woman at the restaurant, Slavic woman always would Western man pays for both.

Second example: Slavic man goes to a massage salon or a strip-club, it was usual in the past and it is not hard now to get some of the best sex (without condom) by young (or very young) women, instead we, Western men, go to to a massage salon or a strip-club, it is almost impossible to get sex by any price.

Third example: we, western men, make our best to be polite and caring, Eastern women understand we behave much more better their Slavic men but, in their opinion, the best deal is to suck the cock to their Slavic men and to suck the blood to Western men (do you still think they are not biologic machines?). The more Slavic man cheats her, and the more she likes him. The more Western man is caring of her, the more she ruins his life.

That is the problem. We need a solution. The solution is what we read by our best mongers: about a serious relationship, no feelings in any second, always cynicism, very few money; about P4P, much worse. I know that is horrible, but there is NOT any further solution!

Ok so I usually don't post much but here's my take on Kiev. First I'm at lybid hotel 70 buck, run down a bit girl friendly before 9pm. I went to dlux, (very posch) caribian club (small nice for dancing) buddha bar, (nicer than even dlux) vodka bar (non-pros, young crowd, loud music bar, good) and finally SHOOTERS, which I haven't seen reported yet on the forum.

Comments

[Curious12]

I have no money and I tell her she has to pay for that and then the beast comes out,"oh you don't have any money? This is too much for you hahaha, I call my friend then, I like ukranian guy he pay all, hahah I don't like you, you ask question I don't like and you don't pay my things." I remind her I paid 400 already on her and that she should say thank you and not insult me and that maybe in her country its all cash but in america we use credit cards and its not my fault they don't accept it in this place, Also that she never asked if I would buy cigs for her. So we get in a mini battle about manners, and she insists my card was "out of money hahaha" and that I don't have much money, I say I could buy a car with that card and instead of shutting up she gets into"what type of car?" and seriously wants me to name drop cars I "could" buy. I keep it real and say oh who cares, maybe a toyota, she thinks this is ok and says "oh that is a good car"

In Ukraine they do not understand how credit cards work. They only know about prepaid credit cards. That's why she wanted to know about the car. They don't understand that you apply for a credit card, bank checks your credit history, approves your card, gives you credit and then once you receive your statement, you pay off the balance.

[Curious12]

So I am confused.

This guys says "she orders two more virgin drinks along with a sushi plate and it was a total of 300 grivna which was exactly what I had left in the wallet"

300 grivna = $40.

How do you setout to get some 9 quality rated pu*why with only $40 bucks in your pocket.

It was his fourth place that night, that's probably the main reason.

"It was a total of 300 grivna which was exactly what I had left in the wallet (it was my 4rth place that night)."

[Malakai]

Hey guys, Noticed some of you are looking for apartments around Kiev right now. Found a good place near the main square at this site:

http://www.ukr-apartments.kiev.ua/

Anyone rented from here: http://kiev-rooms.com/

[Johnny204]

Hey guys, Noticed some of you are looking for apartments around Kiev right now. Found a good place near the main square at this site: http://www.ukr-apartments.kiev.ua/

They speak english and will hook you up with a place. They'll usually ask to call you back, sometimes you have to remind them a couple times, but my place is a pretty good deal. 80 us for 1 bed. 1 pull out couch, a small office area, kitchen area, and patio. Much bigger than I expected, and within walking distance of Vodka Bar and Buddah Bar.

In fact if anyone needs a couch to crash on or wants to meet up in Kiev let me know! I'll be here for the weekend, maybe even next week too.

So far I've been to Vodka Bar twice, Shooters once, Taboo Lounge and no cabarets. I"ll probably hit a cabaret or strip club soon to check it out, and then report back about each of the places, differences etc.

Haven't yet mongered successfully, was mostly going for freebies, but I'll be whipping out the wallet soon.

[Prosal]

I bet that that if you stop trying to impress these girls and just focus on partying and having fun with others like minded, the females will be impressed and will start to want your attention.

+1. This is also my strategy. Obviously having a good time, drinking cocktails and enjoying myself as if I didn't have a care in the world. Ignoring most every girl in the place. Aloofness. Sooner or later you'll get attention. I can't count the times when in a FSU club, standing at the bar, a girl came and said me "You look mysterious, I had to talk to you". This is an effective tactic especially with the hottest girls, the kind who are used to getting hit on 50 times a night and rejecting all 50. Giving the girl the flattering impression that SHE scored a player. Girls like "Byronic" characters, or to reffer to Russian culture, modern Petchorins (A hero of our Time by Lermontov).

[Prosal]

a 9 that looks like jennifer conelly when she was 19

Too bad you didn't score her. A younger and sexier J. Connely must be something to behold. I'm a sucker for this kind of look!

I'm a guy whos lived in brasil for a year

Brasilian women and slavic women are fundamentally different. You can score a brasiliera just by being "nice". A slavic woman, not so."Mr Nice Guy" is the most notoriously ineffective tactic with them. To score Slavic women, you have to enter into Slavic women psyche, and with all due respect, you obviously haven't understood yet the Russian (or Ukrainian for that matter) mentality. They are wild. They are passionate. They want to be played with. They want to be dominated. They expect a man to be manly, direct, mischevious, unompromising, unpredictable and exciting. And keep in mind that Slavic women are notorious for testing the boundaries of controlling men, but it's all up to you to remind them that you are the boss. In fact that is what they expect from you. To dominate them. To play with them. The behaviour of a typical "nice" western guy is not a behaviour they understand or respect. IMO (and I hope without offending you) you obviously adopted the wrong "nice" behavior with Jennifer.

A question: do you drink? Remember that most slavic women drink like Cossaks and when it comes to party, expect a guy to be correspondingly heavy drinking. In clubs, they don't want a nice talk. They have wild partying on their minds, and look for similarly well-appointed, heavy drinking and generous men with the right "look" and "game" to provide the drinks and company to get the job done. At you to fit in and keep up.