Kyiv

[LilJoey]

lj, you recommend meet with mamba girls in cafe or apartment for 2 days trip? all girls don't come home directly. mostly i got answer "lets start drining a cup of coffee". maybe only hardened girls accept to meet in flat?

this is bad idea to meet with them in cafe near flat and go directly home if you like? becasue i think it is easier to leave girl in cafe if you don't like her. in fact i wanted to fly again pattaya but 15 hours + 15 hours back total 30 hours trip i can't endure for only 3 days in pattaya. i will focus on kiev again.

of course it is not a bad idea to meet girls at a cafe near your apartment. you stated the reason. because it is easier to leave them there if you don't want them, than to send them away from your apartment. however, the trade off is that there is probably more time waste involved with unsuccessful dates at a cafe. also, i would re-examine your hesitancy to use your apartment. how hard is it really to say to a girl that you are sorry, but she looks nothing like the pictures of her on the computer, and you decided therefore to pass on having the date with her. she will ask for taxi fare, most likely. don't give more than 50 grivna for taxi fare. that is enough for most downtown taxi rides from any point a to point b. she probably came by metro, not taxi, anyways, or she has the agency driver picking her up. but there are girls who did come by taxi. and 50 grivna is a very small sum ($6. 25) , so it's worth it if it gets rid of the girl without a hassle.

my decision on a very short 3 night weekend visit to kiev, was to have the girls come directly to my apartment building. i gave them the address of the building, but not the apartment number. because i told them that the front door of the building is locked, and so i will come downstairs to greet them and take them into the building, and to call me when they arrive at the building. this gives me an opportunity to see them first, and if they really look bad, to make excuses and pass on them right there on the sidewalk. but i was lucky and most of the girls that came were pretty good looking, so i was very excited as i was escorting them up to my apartment, because i was thinking about that i will be fucking this sexy new girl in just a few minutes later. but i have also many times given my apartment number and let them come up directly sometimes too. meeting them at my apartment was simply easier for me, and i was happy i didn't inconvenience myself to go to some cafe just to meet them. i wasn't afraid of sending girls who were not sexy away, but it rarely happened. i basically fucked almost every girl that came to my apartment who was at least a 7. and i was lucky that the girls who came were good looking, with a nice body.

you write that the idea to meet at the cafe is coming from the mamba girl herself. that's interesting. usually a p4p girl wants to get directly to the business where she gets paid, and would want to come directly to your apartment to get it on. are the girls who are suggesting to you a cafe meeting, girls who have said to you that they will have sex with you for money, in prior messages? if having sex together has not yet been discussed between you and her, then it can't be assumed to be a p4p date. it may be a regular girl date, and that is why she wants to start your meetings at a cafe. if you have already discussed having sex in your mamba messages, or discussed paying her money to meet, and she is clearly a p4p girl, it may be that she is simply selective about who she lets fuck her, and doesn't accept money from trolls. she wants to know if you are safe and normal and not too unappealing for her. that's not the mentality of a hardened prostitute, as you correctly observe, but it is the mentality of a semi-pro girl who is dabbling in prostitution, and does not see herself as a prostitute.

during daytime you can also call girls from other internet sites like top-modals. com or minuet. biz or others mentioned in this thread previously. as well you can go to girl apartments with a taxi driver who knows where they are, who can interpret for you and speak for you and help communicate about prices or services, if you want. and you pick the girl based on how she looks. it might be possible to arrange take out from a girl apartment too. so there are other options aside from mamba for daytime fucking.

did you try suggesting to the mamba girls who want to have a coffee first, that you have coffee at your apartment, and that you wanted to be able to also offer them chocolates which you brought, and other refreshments. maybe that will sound nice and gentleman like to them and they will agree to come to your apartment.

but in the end, the answer is that, even though it might waste a little more of your time, it is not bad to meet at a cafe in the afternoon. but then you may as well try to do the speed dating thing and try to schedule the coffee meetings one after the other, at various different cafe's or bars. i wouldn't give a lot of time for these meetings, because all you want is to see what she looks like. you don't need to learn about her emotions and personality for a p4p date. you can always reschedule the later meetings if you meet the girl of your dreams on one of these coffee dates. bear in mind though that if she wanted a coffee date first, it is because she wanted the opportunity to screen who she fucks. so your fuck plans for her are uncertain until she says yes, to your invitation to go to your apartment.

[Kiev Freak]

All women in this world want something from you, and that is sure!

If you think she is with you only because she has feelings for you, then you are totally wrong.

They all want everything from us, it can be money, safety, child, marriage.

But a girl will suck you dry until you have none, they will do everything to change you and make you her puppet.

No girl will stay with you only because she has feelings for you or whatever.

Ukrainian girls just care a little bit less about materials, because they have been living all their life in Ukraine, and they are not like our western girls who need this and that.

But marry to an Ukraine girl, then bring her to your country and see her changing in less than a year for sure!

That is why these days I think paying for pussy and getting what you paid for thats it, is not so bad!

Most people saying paying to get sex is weak don't know what they are talking about.

Most men with a girlfriend, meet her many times, offer her gifts, and then maybe sex, so whats the difference.

All girls want everything from you, and thats it, a working girl or not.

So I respect working girls, because at least they give the exact prices and do not play with us!

It is just the human nature, we are all greedy.

But a real man got to have his game right, and pay the less possible, or spend the less possible time with a girl to get what he wants, sex.

That become easier and easier with experience, it is all about methods.

Sex is really like a contract, you need to use your skills as much as possible to get it signed!

Or you just pay and thats it.

I used to only have sex with freebies and few p4p.

But these days I like p4p more than I used to.

Also p4p can take care of your * better than a regular girlfriend sometimes.

And that come from a man who get easy pussy and fucked a ton of beautiful Russian girls

Hi, you are absolutely right! I found a girl in mamba last year. She was from a small town 2 hours away from Kiev. I bought ticket, she came my home. We were togerther for 1,5 years. We spend crazy times together for first. 6-7 months. I thought i found an angel. Most time she was with me. I met her parents. Even I started to think marry with her. Every month I gave her about 300-500 USD, because she came from a long way for me. Of course pay for ticket as well. But she never asked me something. She wasnt greedy.

I was going to work, she stayed in home, waited me, cleaned home, made food. We went several times international holiday together. World was paradise for us. After some time, she started to talk with men during flights. Phone exchanged with men. She found other ukrainians in istanbul and also talked with them in internet. Step by step, she started to be getting a different girl. She started to not like the destinations we went for travel before (all was 5 star hotels in perfect places) . she , didnt want to come with me to travel. even she didnt want to come my home anymore.why ? i didnt understand it. because other men offered her better places. she admitted this later. Before she was saying how nice country Turkey and how nice people turkish people, later She started to said Turkish men animal, I was very bad man according to her view and I would want to make her prisoner in my home. Etc. She wanted golds, she wanted money, she wanted marriage, she wanted children. Etc. Last time I visited her (because she refused to come my home because she was very busy with her study) , she asked me to buy a home in ukrain for her. I was trying to understand what was happening. When she drunk, she told me everything, she had sex many time, she had many man for last 6 months. Etc. The angel, I met 1 year ago, changed and transformed a hardened pros. I believe this is not a story you heard first time. I feel myself very lucky because I get rid off from her without any damage.

You must be very very very careful if you think a serious relationship with a girl from FSU. If you found her in a small town, probably you will think she is an angel. She is not greedy, very femine, behave you very kind. Wash your dirty clothes. Etc.

However, they are tend to change after you bring them into your home country. And if your aim is serious relationship, or marriage and you think you you love her really, you must think triple before you lose your everything and try her minimum 1 year. Unless you know all about her family, unless you know their culture, their life style, and social structure very well, don't bring a girl to your home for a serious relationship. Or you will feel a pain in the arse.

[Uoykucf]

An interesting thought you raise. You say there is only value worth paying for if you cum, and in calculating the costs of p4p, it is only the cost per cum, that is relevant. But really it is a younger man's perspective. Or the perspective of someone who has the ability to cum many, many times, and far more times than he would ever consider paying for.

Do you really not see the "fun factor" in fucking a pretty young girl for a half hour, or an hour, in different positions, and hearing her pleasure, and seeing the look on her face and in her eyes, as you continue to do a job on her, that she has rarely experienced? (This is more for regular girls, than for the sex machine girls in an FKK who have done it all and seen it all).

I see absolutely no point in P4P sex without cumming, especially without cumming in mouth and / or face.

For a monger in P4P, it's like a big budget film that goes nowhere.

You might as well go for some booze and drinks to lessen your urges and cool your head.

[Uoykucf]

An interesting thought you raise. You say there is only value worth paying for if you cum, and in calculating the costs of p4p, it is only the cost per cum, that is relevant. But really it is a younger man's perspective. Or the perspective of someone who has the ability to cum many, many times, and far more times than he would ever consider paying for.

Do you really not see the "fun factor" in fucking a pretty young girl for a half hour, or an hour, in different positions, and hearing her pleasure, and seeing the look on her face and in her eyes, as you continue to do a job on her, that she has rarely experienced? (This is more for regular girls, than for the sex machine girls in an FKK who have done it all and seen it all).

I thought I did until a friend, an expert monger in EE, reminded me that the girls should be serving you and NOT the other way around.

BTW, if she's been around the block for sometime regardless of her age, she has experienced such pleasures many times from other men; so you're not the first few but just one of them as they see it.

I bet if it weren't for calls for P4P, most of them wouldn't even answer their regular clients' phone calls.

There's only pay and sex but nothing else almost all the time in EE.

As someone had pointed out in an earlier post, you and many others fell into the illusion the girls given you.

[Uoykucf]

So for me, in a place like an FKK, where it is possible for me to fuck a lot of girls, I can therefore fuck many more girls than I have enough cum for, and I still enjoy fucking a pretty girl for the entertainment value of the visuals, that I will be able to remember and see again and again in my mind, and the pleasure feelings experienced during the sex, and the satisfactions of performing well and causing a young pretty girl's body to quiver in orgasm, and I definitely feel these things are worth paying for in p4p. So I disagree with what you wrote. How many times you cum, is not the only measure for p4p value. Some of the sessions may have been just for the pleasure of sex, even if one did not cum in the end, but chose to end the session at the half hour, or hour mark, for cost considerations. Because money too is not limitless, and with the amount of money available to spend on this entertainment, perhaps one wants to fuck more pretty girls, rather than keep going with the one same girl. It's a different area of this hobby, where the operational considerations are different than for other younger guys who can cum many times, but who are usually just able to fuck for several minutes (maybe 5 minutes for most average men, maybe 10 minutes) before the cum is forced from them in an orgasm.

I see that you like to pay to serve the girls.

I can tell you that the girls you serve are probably laughing with their friends all the way to the bank.

[Uoykucf]

Your feeling that some Thai women are as beautiful, or even more beautiful, than Ukrainian, or other EE women, is a purely subjective opinion. It isn't correct. Nor is it incorrect. It is merely a subjective opinion. Of course, since you feel that way, it is a great advantage that Thai pussy is very cheap.

My feeling that I prefer the type of beauty possessed by EE women, more than the beauty of Asian women, is also simply my subjective feeling. It isn't incorrect. Nor is it correct. It is simply how I feel. And is merely a subjective opinion. I believe it is shared by many Western men.

I'm not saying that I would not have sex with a pretty Asian girl. I have had and do continue to have sex with Asian women. It's just that I feel the beauty of EE women is more attractive.

I also like Latina beauty. But I still feel more attracted to EE beauty. For example, here attached is a Latina beauty that I met recently in Florida. No normal guy is throwing such a pretty girl out of his bed. I think she is more beautiful than actress Salma Hayek, whom she looks like a little. But here attached also are some photos of EE beauties. I just feel more attracted to the EE type of beauty. But it's just a subjective opinion and feeling. It's not something that I'm saying is more correct than your feeling that you enjoy beautiful Thai women just as much as Ukrainian beauties.

So enjoy the beauties you found in Pattaya, and enjoy how cheap it is. I still prefer Kiev and the type of beauty to be found in Ukraine, or German FKK's.

Happy Mongering wherever your heart takes you.

LJ

Your attached pics below contain sexy beauties which I prefer too except the 1st one.

[Uoykucf]

1) Sex is not always guarantee at night clubs and other bars with p4p. Sometimes they want too much money. Sometimes men / girl ratio is not good for us, but sometimes there are real gems as well. If you trip for 3 days, hang up in night clubs and you have nothing in midnight, you are already half drunk and only way to go a strip club.

2) stip clubs like mandarin, Rio and dolls always provide 100% guarantee sex because they have "pick up" service. But also 100% all in condom. No cim, cif. And probably no DATY. This makes all too mechanic for me. Yes, there are really stunning girls. But all in condom. Therefore primarly target is pick up gems from a night club or find in mamba.

3) Mamba girls are not always shown up, or they come too late (almost one of 3 girl don't come the time we appoint.) this costs time. Too much time. I read your post. You say in one day, you can meet 2, maximum 3 mamba girls. The problem is you cannot know how they look until they come to your room or cafe. Of course you can send her back if you don't like. But again, time is our main cost here. Because we don't live in Kiev. Every minute you can't find girl, your fixed costs are increasing. So my primarily purpose, find girls, pretty girls as soon as possible.

You are right – fixed costs in Kiev are high, i.e. nice accommodation on Kreshatik street and restaurant/quality western food are expensive. The more days you stay the more you pay.
Once you arrive in Kiev, time starts to cost money. The longer time it takes to get girls you want = more money. So spending more money to get a quick pickup in clubs, etc is not necessary more expensive than spending a lot of time picking up girls elsewhere because of the daily fixed costs.
By the way, spending a lot of time does NOT guarantee getting the girls you want; so it could end up costing more than the clubs.

Either you'll pay. LOL

[Uoykucf]

I forgot to mention again, that if you are looking for more certainty, have a look at the Gia escort website. They use photoshopped but true pics, and state their services clearly for each girl. They are priced a little higher though. But maybe on a very short term visit, it will serve your purposes.

Photoshopped pics are NOT true pics. LOL.

Because photoshopped pics can be far from reality. LOL

[Kiev Freak]

That does sound convenient, although even hanging out at the club for 2 hours isn't that attractive to me. I have become lazy and spoiled over the years! Thank you for this information.

For convenience, this is hard to beat. I have read both good and bad things about Gia, but it certainly appeals to me. I like the idea of just arranging for someone to come to me, and then I don't have to do any 'work' to make it happen. Also, seems cheaper then going to the club. But, I am wary of some of the comments in the forum.

Do you think the Gia is generally a reliable service, but maybe people are disappointed in the girls sometimes. Or, is it a scam organization that is to be avoided? I just love the idea of making a call and having a girl sent over.

Thank you!

GIA is not SCAM, but crazy expensive. The general idea is why you come to Kiev if you can pay 300$/h for gia girls ? you can make it in ypur home country too. Some girls charge 300usd really according to Gia website. And girls don't make always the service they advertised on their site.

[Kiev Freak]

I forgot to mention again, that if you are looking for more certainty, have a look at the Gia escort website. They use photoshopped but true pics, and state their services clearly for each girl. They are priced a little higher though. But maybe on a very short term visit, it will serve your purposes.

LJ, you recommend meet with mamba girls in cafe or apartment for 2 days trip? All girls don't come home directly. Mostly I got answer "lets start drining a cup of coffee". Maybe only hardened girls accept to meet in flat?

This is bad idea to meet with them in cafe near flat and go directly home if you like? Becasue I think it is easier to leave girl in cafe if you don't like her. In fact I wanted to fly again Pattaya but 15 hours + 15 hours back total 30 hours trip I can't endure for only 3 days in Pattaya. I will focus on Kiev again.

[KenD03]

I think Kiev Freak's post here was aimed at you, but I'll toss in some detail. The strip club Rio is behind the Taras Shevchenko Ukraine National Opera and directly across the street from the German Embassy. Many, but not all, of the girls dancing there are available. I believe the place opens at 4pm, but I'm not sure what the depth of talent looks like at that time. If you show up at 7pm you can have a drink or two and perhaps have a girl out the door before 9pm. The advantages and disadvantages of this option are covered in many posts on this thread. The highest ask I had from a girl there was $400 for what amounts to around three hours; the lowest, and most typical, ask was $300. I think my costs of just being in the club (drinks, dances, chatting up girls over drinks, tips) ran a little above $60 / hour minimum. You can just signal a girl who is dancing you are interested, many speak pragmatic English. I typically came in after 8pm or so; not sure how it will work showing up earlier. For your circumstances, this may be the most convenient path.

That does sound convenient, although even hanging out at the club for 2 hours isn't that attractive to me. I have become lazy and spoiled over the years! Thank you for this information.

This year, or at this time of the year?

I am not there, and have not been there since April, but when I go, I think of Gia as my upper end providers. You usually get what you see, although, yes, the photos are a little photoshoped. I just noticed that several of their girls are at only $150, which is usual for them. If they are at $150, the girls on the street must be down to $50! I hope the pattern holds until I return.

Any comments?

For convenience, this is hard to beat. I have read both good and bad things about Gia, but it certainly appeals to me. I like the idea of just arranging for someone to come to me, and then I don't have to do any 'work' to make it happen. Also, seems cheaper then going to the club. But, I am wary of some of the comments in the forum.

Do you think the Gia is generally a reliable service, but maybe people are disappointed in the girls sometimes. Or, is it a scam organization that is to be avoided? I just love the idea of making a call and having a girl sent over.

Thank you!

[LilJoey]

hi lj, i don't say kiev is hard nut. but, if your time is limited, it is not always possible to find girls easily. why?

1) sex is not always guarantee at night clubs and other bars with p4p. sometimes they want too much money. sometimes men / girl ratio is not good for us, but sometimes there are real gems as well. if you trip for 3 days, hang up in night clubs and you have nothing in midnight, you are already half drunk and only way to go a strip club.

2) stip clubs like mandarin, rio and dolls always provide 100% guarantee sex because they have "pick up" service. but also 100% all in condom. no cim, cif. and probably no daty. this makes all too mechanic for me. yes, there are really stunning girls. but all in condom. therefore primarly target is pick up gems from a night club or find in mamba.

3) mamba girls are not always shown up, or they come too late (almost one of 3 girl don't come the time we appoint.) this costs time. too much time. i read your post. you say in one day, you can meet 2, maximum 3 mamba girls. the problem is you cannot know how they look until they come to your room or cafe. of course you can send her back if you don't like. but again, time is our main cost here. because we don't live in kiev. every minute you can't find girl, your fixed costs are increasing. so my primarily purpose, find girls, pretty girls as soon as possible.

if you have about 1 week minimum, and you can really make speed date with mamba girls, you are very lucky man because other days you will be very busy. but short time visits, this is not easy to find pretty girls always. i'm gointo to kiev for only 1 days, next weekend, saturday morning arrival and sunday night back. because i don't have time. i make a list with mamba angels. and night will be go directly strip club because saturday night, all clubs will be full full and probably competition will be high. this kind of short trip, believe kiev not good idea. but it is still only option for me.

i forgot to mention again, that if you are looking for more certainty, have a look at the gia escort website. they use photoshopped but true pics, and state their services clearly for each girl. they are priced a little higher though. but maybe on a very short term visit, it will serve your purposes.

[LilJoey]

hi lj, i don't say kiev is hard nut. but, if your time is limited, it is not always possible to find girls easily. why?

1) sex is not always guarantee at night clubs and other bars with p4p. sometimes they want too much money. sometimes men / girl ratio is not good for us, but sometimes there are real gems as well. if you trip for 3 days, hang up in night clubs and you have nothing in midnight, you are already half drunk and only way to go a strip club.

2) stip clubs like mandarin, rio and dolls always provide 100% guarantee sex because they have "pick up" service. but also 100% all in condom. no cim, cif. and probably no daty. this makes all too mechanic for me. yes, there are really stunning girls. but all in condom. therefore primarly target is pick up gems from a night club or find in mamba.

3) mamba girls are not always shown up, or they come too late (almost one of 3 girl don't come the time we appoint.) this costs time. too much time. i read your post. you say in one day, you can meet 2, maximum 3 mamba girls. the problem is you cannot know how they look until they come to your room or cafe. of course you can send her back if you don't like. but again, time is our main cost here. because we don't live in kiev. every minute you can't find girl, your fixed costs are increasing. so my primarily purpose, find girls, pretty girls as soon as possible.

if you have about 1 week minimum, and you can really make speed date with mamba girls, you are very lucky man because other days you will be very busy. but short time visits, this is not easy to find pretty girls always. i'm gointo to kiev for only 1 days, next weekend, saturday morning arrival and sunday night back. because i don't have time. i make a list with mamba angels. and night will be go directly strip club because saturday night, all clubs will be full full and probably competition will be high. this kind of short trip, believe kiev not good idea. but it is still only option for me.

let me respond to you, point by point:

my trips to kiev have only been short 3 or 4 day weekend stopovers, so i am in the exact same boat as you are. therefore:

1.) entirely agree. the nightclub scene, although it has been reported to have girls available for $200/2hours, and cheaper, and even $100 for multiple hours, nevertheless is a scene that is very inefficient for bringing home p4p hotties to fuck each night on a guaranteed basis, for various reasons, including that sometimes identifying the girls who are p4p is not as easy as you thought, as well as the price negotiation which consumes time, and more time with each successive girl it must be engaged in, as well as factors you mentioned. therefore, when i don't have anything else already lined up as a backup, i would not put all my eggs in the one basket of nightclubs on all three nights of my weekend visit, but rather limit it to not more than one night trying at the nightclubs. the other nights, during those early times when i did not have sufficient very pretty mamba contacts with whom i could pre-arrange meetings, i would go to rio strip club.

2.) mostly disagree. i only agree with that part of what you wrote that stated that stunning girls are available at the strip club for take out. i disagree that getting take out is 100% guaranteed, since due to the fact that the girls are not required to go out with a customer if they don't want to, and it is their choice, it means that it depends on whether they like you, and there is some good chemistry between you, and of course also on how much they need the money at the time. so it is decidedly not a point and click service, in which you get to take out whichever girl you want. it depends in part on whether you can get that girl to like you, in part. so the factors of success include your own charm and game, your looks, your hygiene and grooming, your nice smell or your odious body odor. the foregoing introduces an element of uncertainty. so it is not guaranteed 100% scoring. also not every girl does take out, and some girls, including some of the best looking girls, are dancer only. then there is the language issue, where some of the hottest girls come from hinterland small towns where they grew up never dreaming to meet western sex tourist men, and therefore never bothered applying themselves in their english studies at school, and they are now adults who cannot speak english, who don't feel comfortable going home with someone they cannot communicate with. so you are out of luck with them too. nevertheless, there have always been sufficient other hot girls to serve my purposes. but i would not go so far as to say scoring is a 100% guarantee. it is just very, very likely if you follow some basic pointers i have outlined in various of my prior reports, or you are naturally not a guy who is truly clueless, and can figure things out fairly quickly on your own.

i also disagree with what you wrote about service from girls at strip clubs being only covered bj service, and probably not daty. you have only to read my prior reports, as well as the unbiased reports of others to know this is not an accurate statement. i have had bbbj and daty, with many of the girls i took out from rio. i also had girls who refused bbbj and only did covered bj. i only had one girl, out of all the many girls who i have taken out from rio, who refused daty. and only one girl who initially required me to devise a covered solution for daty, but now let's me lick her pussy naturally as much as i like to. and one girl who said she's very sensitive and doesn't enjoy it, but let me do it anyway, and she was too sensitive, so i discontinued it. all the rest of all the girls i have fucked from rio, allowed and enjoyed daty. so my opinion on daty is the opposite of yours, and i think that rio girls will probably allow daty, if past actual experience is the measure.

as to bbbj versus covered bj, the true picture regarding rio take out girls is a little worse than as to daty. but i still think it has been something like 50/50 for me. so i disagree with your statement that rio girls are 100% covered. this kind of thing depends on your hygiene and smell, as well as your charm and game, and the chemistry between you and the girl. the more she likes you, and the more she enjoyed your daty, the more likely you are to receive a natural bbbj. another factor is whether she's very new at the club, or has been working a longer time there. i have found that the newer the girls are, the more likely natural bbbj is likely. and the longer they have been working, the more stuff they hear about, and the more likely they are to try to take precautions, and only want to do covered bj's. but it is definitely something that depends on each individual girl. you cannot generalize. my internal debate has always been whether to try to ask the girl about it up front while still in the club before i decide whether to take her, or whether to let things play out naturally and hope she will simply go with the flow in the heat of passion or sexual fun. asking up front runs the risk of getting the answer their brain says is prudent, rather than the answer that comes when she is enjoying sex with you and having fun and more inclined to please you.

so i think the numbers about bbbj from rio girls are more like 50/50, if my own actual experience is a measure.

i don't know about cim or cif because it's not my thing, so i never tried.

3.) when i said i could do 2 or 3 mamba girls each day, i was speaking of myself, because these girls are girls i know already, and just simply have to arrange a meeting with. it is of course different when depending on the interview process. during the interview process that someone new to kiev must endure to find good girls, you can do certain strategies that will increase your sex. waste of time, as you correctly say, is your enemy. so you can summon multiple girls to appear at your apartment in closer succession, one after the other, or even a few of them simultaneously, on the pretext of making a "party", and then simply choose to send away those who don't make the grade, and fuck those who are doable. i have so many times recommended looking for internet girls like from mamba, or top-modals, during the daytime hours, and then going at 8pm or 9pm to rio, or to a nightclub, whichever you like better. my experience has been that the girls who have come to my apartment have mostly been at least doable, so i fucked them. only a minority of girls had to be sent away. i really don't understand why you are having such difficulty in getting laid in kiev. the likelihood of getting a supermodel from an internet site is low however. but that is why you go to the strip club or nightclub at night for, to pull out a really hot girl. it could happen during daytime exploits also, but it is a welcome accident if it does. so if you're holding out for a supermodel to come from mamba, then i understand why it takes so long. just lower your daytime internet requirements to girls who are a 7 or above, and you should be preoccupied with fucking mamba girls in no time.

[Kiev Freak]

it is true that in certain environments, a man will behave different sexually. i find that in kiev, i feel satiated when i have sex with one girl in the afternoon, and another girl later at night. so i don't always chase after additional girls each day, although theoretically i could. it seems i am satisfied with two girls a day, although on some days, when i have the opportunity to do it, i will have an additional girl come to my apartment in kiev, just for the fun of it. doing two girls a day, for a man of my age (over 50) , is not a big challenge. there are other guys on this forum in the same age bracket, who do a whole lot more fucking than just two girls each day. usually the girl for the daytime afternoon hours is from the internet (mamba, top-modals etc.) , and at night sometimes lately, also a mamba girl, and sometimes a girl from a strip club. or one can get girls from a nightclub too.

so your statement that in six days it would be "amazing" if you could have sex with 7 girls, is difficult to understand. since you obviously have the capacity to have sex with 14 girls in that period, as you did in thailand. so it seems that your difficulty was in obtaining the actual girls to fuck, not the fucking itself. but why should it be so difficult for you to get girls to fuck in kiev? they are all over the place and internet.

you should read my discussion of how to handle interviewing and fucking mamba girls, which you can find a link to on the reports of distinction thread. in a 3 day trip, it is not a good idea to do the cafe interviews by speed dating all afternoon, as it wastes too much "fucking time". instead, just have the most promising mamba girls come to your apartment, and send away those who are not doable, but fuck those who are sexy enough to fuck. it's cheap at $75 or $100 or less for an hour. sometimes a really pretty girl will show up, and you will keep her contact info for future use.

if you really want a non stop sexathon with many girls, the best place is in an fkk club. go to germany for this. see the fkk thread. there it is most usual that i fuck three, four or sometimes five girls in one day. it's because the pretty naked girls are all around you in the fkk club and coming on to you to come and fuck them. they will even suck your cock in the kino trying to get you into a room. if you like the beauty of eastern european women, there is no need to seek a fuckfest in thailand with asian women who don't have the same kind of beauty. you can have a fuckfest of amazing proportions in the fkk's.

the only reason for dragging your ass all the way to thailand is if your desire is for the cheapest sex, and that matters more to you than beauty. because the fkk's are more expensive.

hi lj, i don't say kiev is hard nut. but, if your time is limited, it is not always possible to find girls easily. why?

1) sex is not always guarantee at night clubs and other bars with p4p. sometimes they want too much money. sometimes men / girl ratio is not good for us, but sometimes there are real gems as well. if you trip for 3 days, hang up in night clubs and you have nothing in midnight, you are already half drunk and only way to go a strip club.

2) stip clubs like mandarin, rio and dolls always provide 100% guarantee sex because they have "pick up" service. but also 100% all in condom. no cim, cif. and probably no daty. this makes all too mechanic for me. yes, there are really stunning girls. but all in condom. therefore primarly target is pick up gems from a night club or find in mamba.

3) mamba girls are not always shown up, or they come too late (almost one of 3 girl don't come the time we appoint.) this costs time. too much time. i read your post. you say in one day, you can meet 2, maximum 3 mamba girls. the problem is you cannot know how they look until they come to your room or cafe. of course you can send her back if you don't like. but again, time is our main cost here. because we don't live in kiev. every minute you can't find girl, your fixed costs are increasing. so my primarily purpose, find girls, pretty girls as soon as possible.

if you have about 1 week minimum, and you can really make speed date with mamba girls, you are very lucky man because other days you will be very busy. but short time visits, this is not easy to find pretty girls always. i'm gointo to kiev for only 1 days,next weekend, saturday morning arrival and sunday night back. because i don't have time. i make a list with mamba angels. and night will be go directly strip club because saturday night, all clubs will be full full and probably competition will be high. this kind of short trip, believe kiev not good idea. but it is still only option for me.

[LilJoey]

One measure is how many times you cum in the time you paid for.

It's how many times you cum with all the girls really count, NOT how many girls you fuck, in a day. Cost per cum is the ultimate measure of cost effectiveness in P4P.

In many places in EE, WGs also use the cum rule. If you lick pussies, you are servicing the girls, and it should be the other way around.

An interesting thought you raise. You say there is only value worth paying for if you cum, and in calculating the costs of p4p, it is only the cost per cum, that is relevant. But really it is a younger man's perspective. Or the perspective of someone who has the ability to cum many, many times, and far more times than he would ever consider paying for.

However, there may come a time in your life, when your body is no longer able to supply limitless quantities of ejaculate within a time span reasonable to pay for in p4p. There will then be a physical limit to how many times per hour, or even per day, you are capable of cumming. It may happen that you will reach a stage in life, or in your aging process, where you only have a limited number of cumms in you per day. When that happens, if you are still pursuing the mongering hobby, your perspective will change, and you will begin to understand that there is a high entertainment / enjoyment factor of penetrating your penis into very beautiful pussy, and fucking the daylights out of said pretty girl, maybe making her orgasm and scream and cum all over your penis, as you continue to penetrate her in various positions, and this will make you feel great and very happy, even if you choose not to cum, for the reason that you want to be able to do the same thing again in a short while, to another pretty girl, and if you let yourself cum now, you will not be able to, because your body's recharge time (that's the time you need between one cum and the next) is not as short a time as it used to be, and you have a limited number if cums each day. When that happens, sportfucking without cumming will acquire a value to you, and if you want to enjoy it, you will see the value in it, and that it is worth paying for.

So for me, in a place like an FKK, where it is possible for me to fuck a lot of girls, I can therefore fuck many more girls than I have enough cum for, and I still enjoy fucking a pretty girl for the entertainment value of the visuals, that I will be able to remember and see again and again in my mind, and the pleasure feelings experienced during the sex, and the satisfactions of performing well and causing a young pretty girl's body to quiver in orgasm, and I definitely feel these things are worth paying for in p4p. So I disagree with what you wrote. How many times you cum, is not the only measure for p4p value. Some of the sessions may have been just for the pleasure of sex, even if one did not cum in the end, but chose to end the session at the half hour, or hour mark, for cost considerations. Because money too is not limitless, and with the amount of money available to spend on this entertainment, perhaps one wants to fuck more pretty girls, rather than keep going with the one same girl. It's a different area of this hobby, where the operational considerations are different than for other younger guys who can cum many times, but who are usually just able to fuck for several minutes (maybe 5 minutes for most average men, maybe 10 minutes) before the cum is forced from them in an orgasm.

Do you really not see the "fun factor" in fucking a pretty young girl for a half hour, or an hour, in different positions, and hearing her pleasure, and seeing the look on her face and in her eyes, as you continue to do a job on her, that she has rarely experienced? (This is more for regular girls, than for the sex machine girls in an FKK who have done it all and seen it all).