Kyiv

[LilJoey]

Hello, fellow mongers,

I will spend NYE in Kiev and due to lack of time but will to be entertained I think I just call through the list of girls like sexkiev or similar. Judging by recent posts one can expect that majority of girls will be of unacceptable quality, nevertheless I think I just use a taxi and be open upfront with agency operator, show up, check and decide until I end up with a girl I like.

Since business appointments should be done by Friday lunchtime, I think my time of research will be Friday afternoon and Saturday morning. PM if anyone needs anything or wants to team up or meet for drinks. (my background: life in Frankfurt next to FKK Palace, speak good Russian. 35y, drink 3 shots per night maximum)

Happy hunting everyone!

S

Good luck on your project! Don't forget to include in your mission list top-modals. Com "real photo" girls from where I have previously gotten two pretty good girls who used actual pics (no guarantees on real photos though) , as well as sending out a blurb to all mamba. Ru girls who you see are "online" when you login to come over if they are hot and want to start the new year off with a bang, and maybe some fireworks. These two sites have been producing some good results. Then there's sites like minuet. Biz and a bunch of others you can get by doing a Google search for "Kiev escort" or similar which are more of a gamble, some of which advertise lower prices 800 UAH or below. You may also want to ask somea taxi drivers if they want to take you on a tour of some of the local girl apartments to find the girl of your dreams. Good hunting, and look forward to reading your reports.

LJ

[AColonizer]

I wrote a wonderful algoritm that could solve any doubts. Unfortunately, something wrong about cookies, and it was deleted with the upload. Anyway, not be afraid of agencies, they treat customers as shit.

I know that if I pay for the girl I do not have to give her taxi fare, but what I am asking is that if I return the girl because I do not like what I see, how much is the taxi fare cost in Kiev?

[Stakan]

Hello, fellow mongers,

I will spend NYE in Kiev and due to lack of time but will to be entertained I think I just call through the list of girls like sexkiev or similar. Judging by recent posts one can expect that majority of girls will be of unacceptable quality, nevertheless I think I just use a taxi and be open upfront with agency operator, show up, check and decide until I end up with a girl I like.

Since business appointments should be done by Friday lunchtime, I think my time of research will be Friday afternoon and Saturday morning. PM if anyone needs anything or wants to team up or meet for drinks. (my background: life in Frankfurt next to FKK Palace, speak good Russian. 35y, drink 3 shots per night maximum)

Happy hunting everyone!

S

[LilJoey]

I know that if I pay for the girl I do not have to give her taxi fare, but what I am asking is that if I return the girl because I do not like what I see, how much is the taxi fare cost in Kiev?

First, when you originally posted this same question a few posts ago, you were wrong for being too lazy to read the thread where your question about taxi fare for an escort coming to your apartment has been previously discussed and answered.

Second, you were already answered but a few posts previously but apparently you cannot read even that far back, or perhaps you think your question merits being repeated or defended. It doesn't.

Third, your statement here is wrong too because there is essentially no difference between the two situations and you will likely be asked for taxi fare both by the girl being sent away, as well as by the girl who was hot enough for you and you chose to keep her and maybe even you just had a fantastic session with her. In fact, there is even more reason to give the beautiful girl who just gave you fantastic sex a taxi fare home as a sort of tip or thank you, because you might actually want to see her again and it will further the budding relationship between you and her, and she may give you her personal number and will come to you happily in the future at your beck and call, a worthy addition to your list of numbers of hot women you can call when you come to Kiev. But instead you chose to tell her no, you will not give her taxi fare of even 50 UAH ($6. 25 USD) , because you feel that the fee of for example 800 UAH ($100 USD) was too much for this beautiful girl to receive who just gave you an hour (or more) of fantastic sex. So you will show yourself to this girl to be a really cheap guy and I'm sure this will be a great incentive for her to come to you in the future. You will have displayed the full measure of your actual judgment or understanding of girl skills and you will reap what you sow.

Fourth, I am choosing to answer you again solely to point out the folly of the thinking you expressed above for the benefit of other newbies who may still have hope. You however have found your mentor in Acolonizer, a true veteran, whose posts are always entertaining but whose viewpoint is far more cynical towards WG's than my own, so good luck to you, Jim, in that. Perhaps you will be able to see, as he claims to be able to see, how a girl arrived to his apartment, whether by underground or bus. I guess you will have to wait a while on the street in front of your apartment for a while in order to see this, because these girls are seldom on time. But you will at least be able to save the $6. 25 in taxi fare this way. I am usually just waiting upstairs inside my apartment, so I just assumed she probably didn't really come by taxi and that the request is just another angle they use to get a little more money out of us, and I made my decision about whether to give her taxi fare based on the factors I laid out in my last post. But don't stop here. Since you have found your mentor, click on Acolonizer's name and access his prior posts, as you will need more guidance on how to properly treat the WG's that come to your apartment, and who better to learn from if not someone who thinks similar to yourself. And not giving any taxi fare is just the tip of the iceberg as there is much more you can learn from him.

[Jojosun]

I know that if I pay for the girl I do not have to give her taxi fare, but what I am asking is that if I return the girl because I do not like what I see, how much is the taxi fare cost in Kiev?

.

The JOJO in me tells me 50 UAH.

Who am I 2 argue. .

If the the girl is from an agency, and you want to be on their books for future bookings, just give her 50 UA, and Bob is your Uncle.

Fat Assed Taxi drivers in New York expect 20% Tip on top of the Fare.

London Taxi drivers 10% on top of the fare and the other charges.

And here you are dealing with a Pussy.

[Stakan]

Hello, fellow mongers,

I land in Kiev tomorrow morning and plan to stay over the New Year Eve. Will be done with all business appointments by 18:00 Friday and due to lack of time (with only Friday evening and Saturday half day available) I probably will work through through sexkiev. Net list of girls. Thanks to this board (special thanks to LJ) I understand that one should expect 70% of the girls to be of unacceptable quality. I guess I'll just hire a driver for couple of hours, be open upfront with the agency operator and just show up, check and decide.

So that's the plan.

If anyone of you are in Kiev at the same time and want to team up or need help in Russian. PM please, I am open minded.

My background: spent 3 months in Kiev in 2005, live in Frankfurt (literally next to FKK-Palace) , speak & look Russian. 35y. O, drink 3 shots per night maximum.

Happy hunting everyone.

S

[Jim0129]

I know that if I pay for the girl I do not have to give her taxi fare, but what I am asking is that if I return the girl because I do not like what I see, how much is the taxi fare cost in Kiev?

Easy: nothing and never, rates include transport too. Maybe a tip for a very wonderful work, but it seldom happens! Men usually say too many words for silly things. Mongering is a hard art that requires smartness first of all. If men use penis instead of brain, then they never get a good result. I met too many girls asking for a taxi fare when I saw those girls coming to my flat by foot, by bus or by underground (and the same about going back). Wake up: taxi fare is a reason to get more money. And rates in Kiev are high and it is not necessary to be cheated also for a taxi fare!

[Polo79]

Did the Mamba Mambo last night. Pulled a nice girl. Jet black hair, blue eyes, and flawless skin. She wasn't the one advertised on the mamba ad but who cares if she's hot? Not me. We had a nice time. I think I wore her out. She must work out though because her muscle tone was excellent. She was a trooper and very friendly. I always try to share a glass of wine and some chocolates before we get started. They love the wine but always eschew the chocolates. It's amazing. Got to love these girls for zealously protecting their figures. They only will drink one glass of wine though. Not sure if they are just being polite by not drinking too much, or they want to avoid getting drunk.

[AColonizer]

Easy: nothing and never, rates include transport too. Maybe a tip for a very wonderful work, but it seldom happens! Men usually say too many words for silly things. Mongering is a hard art that requires smartness first of all. If men use penis instead of brain, then they never get a good result. I met too many girls asking for a taxi fare when I saw those girls coming to my flat by foot, by bus or by underground (and the same about going back). Wake up: taxi fare is a reason to get more money. And rates in Kiev are high and it is not necessary to be cheated also for a taxi fare!

Thank you for a great report! Just one question, how much do you give a girl for taxi fare in Kiev? I am planing to go in the summer and I want to do exactly what you did!

[LilJoey]

Thank you for a great report! Just one question, how much do you give a girl for taxi fare in Kiev? I am planing to go in the summer and I want to do exactly what you did!

Jim, this question has been discussed numerous previous times in the Kiev thread. By asking this question, you are betraying the fact that you have not done sufficient research and reading of the earlier posts on this thread. To succeed at this endeavor, you must be adequately prepared. Don't worry, I will spoonfeed you the answer to your question here again because maybe it will help others who are lazy also. Not adequately preparing yourself with the knowledge contained in the last year's worth of posts to any destination when you have adequate time to do so, is foolish and will result in many mistakes being made which could have easily been avoided, and can drastically reduce your success and fun rate on a visit from what it could have been. I am saying these things to you, and at the same time to all those other newbies out there similarly situated, who are toying with the idea of a Kiev trip. Read the forum. Don't be lazy. Read the thread for a year going back. It will definitely pay off for you.

In the case of the Kiev thread, there had been a major change in the city's p4p scene which took place toward the end of the year 2010 when a particular WG ("working girl") hangout called the River Palace was towed away by order of the government. The River Palace had been a riverboat which had a unique nightclub / discotheque which was attended nightly solely by women who were prostitutes and the men who wanted to find a date with them. It was an environment which made finding a hot girl for the night as easy as shooting fish in a barrel. Nevertheless, your mongering skills were still called upon both to negotiate price as well as to steer you clear of the bad apples and to pick out the type of girl who would give the best GFE type session. But this environment made p4p an easy prospect, when all other means to find a girl had failed. It was the "good old days" in Kiev, fondly remembered by this writer from his novice trips to Kiev. As a result of this major change from the loss of the River Palace as a meeting ground for p4p activities, the monger community had to adapt to the new situation, and you will find, from reading the reports on this thread for the period following the demise of the River Palace, that it took some months before more clarity emerged on how best to pursue the hobby of p4p in Kiev in the post. River Palace era. My own posts began in or about March of 2011 in which I made some efforts at a detailed consolidation of the knowledge about p4p contained in the prior posts as well as from experience on the ground. So I suggest that from now until your trip next summer you make a point of reading this thread from at least March of 2011, copy and pasting good tidbits of advice into your own summary document to which you can refer later and reread until it sinks in. There is also much knowledge in posts from further back, but you have to start somewhere.

Let me give you a good example of a major pitfall which could definitely affect your trip, which if you failed to read the prior posts as I am recommending you to do, you would miss knowing about, and you would suffer the consequences. The year 2012 will see a major international sporting event take place in Kiev which will bring into the city tens of thousands of additional tourists, among them many men looking for some diversion into the world of Ukrainian p4p pussy. This is expected to have a major impact on inflating the pricing of p4p both in the period of the duration of this influx, as well as in the period thereafter, as the higher prices the girls will no doubt get will spoil them and raise their expectations, and we fear eliminate the possibility of low cost pussy in Kiev for a long time. You had best find out more about this sporting event to be held in Kiev and its dates by reading the prior posts about it, since your trip may well be affected by it. If not for this tip that I am giving you now to research this issue adequately, by failing to read the prior posts, you might have remained oblivious to this major problem that might directly affect your success at p4p. So read the thread adequately.

Now, I will discuss your specific question about what is the amount of taxi fee to give an outcall escort who shows up looking nothing like the picture on the internet you were promised on the phone was a true picture of her, and the girl who shows up is not to your liking in appearance, ability to communicate in the language you know, or in her demeanor, so you are going to send her away. The usual answer is that 50 UAH should be adequate. But I will fine tune this answer a little bit more. My experience in Kiev has been that when ordering a taxi from a reputable taxi company over the phone, to get from point A to point B in downtown Kiev, the fare has usually been quoted over the phone in advance as these companies do, in the range of 30 UAH. This is the price a local person would pay. Typically, when taking a taxi from my apartment to be dropped off at Rio strip club, taxis I grab at the curb or on the street, will demand a flat fee of 50 UAH. When leaving the Rio strip club with a girl and being directed into the cab of the taxi mafia sitting waiting in front of the Rio club, you will have to pay 100 UAH for taxi fare (as was the case when getting a taxi with a girl when coming out of the old River Palace, as well). This is the "strip club premium" that the local taxi drivers are alert to be able to charge a guy going to and coming from a strip club. Knowing these foregoing facts will allow you to appreciate that giving a taxi fee of 50 UAH to an outcall escort that you are sending away from your door because she is too far below expectations, is more than adequate for any trip from your door to another location downtown where she is likely to be coming from. If she came from a more distant location requiring in excess of 50 UAH in taxi cost in order to perpetrate this fraud upon you of delivering a substandard looking girl after promising to you the beautiful girl that was presented in her internet photos, then perhaps she should bear some of the cost and responsibility for the fraud she participated in. The likelihood is that there is in fact no taxi fee, and that a driver from her agency is waiting for her anyway. So the "taxi fee" is more than likely an attempt to extract something from you upon being sent away. So if you give 50 UAH (about $6. 25 USD) as the taxi fee upon sending a girl away, it is adequate under the circumstances.

However, even though a taxi fee of 50 UAH (about $6. 25 USD) may seem a small amount by Western standards, if you keep getting girl after girl who is too ugly, fat or old to consider keeping for sex, and you must send away many girls, this "taxi cost" will begin to add up to a major expense. The frustration with this and the reprehensible attitude of the escort agencies using fake pictures of beautiful girls and then sending ugly girls, has caused some mongers to have the opinion that they will not pay the taxi fee when an ugly girl is sent, when a pretty girl was promised.

Of course, if you refuse to pay the taxi fee to girls you are sending away, it will not be too long before you are black-listed by the escort agencies and they will not send any further girls to you. This will of course terminate your efforts to find a hot girl by accident using the internet escort agencies, which is the strategy being used by mongers who are ordering and sending away girls until one shows up that looks good. That is, unless you you can find an outcall agency that is unconnected with the agencies with which you have burned your bridges with already. Be aware, in this regard, that an agency may be using many different internet sites and telephone numbers, and you will have no way of knowing which websites and numbers are inter related and part of the same agency.

So it is a judgment call as to whether to pay the taxi fee to a girl being sent away or not, in which you must balance the degree of the fraud committed against you by the agency, versus the risk of being black listed by the agency if you repeatedly don't give the taxi fee when sending a girl away, and taking into account that the poor girl may herself not be in control of anything and is somewhat a victim of the agency also. When I say the "degree of fraud" I am referring to how ugly the girl is compared to her "true pictures" as promised by the agency phone girl. The agency phone girl will swear to being the actual girl who is coming to your door, and she will promise it to you in good English, but the lie will usually be exposed when the girl at your door can't utter a blessed English word.

My thinking is that it is quite understandable that young girls might not want their actual pictures on the internet, lest they be recognized and exposed in front of family and friends in what they are doing to earn a few extra bucks. So I actually have no problem with the use of sample pictures of a model that are not true pictures of the actual girl, as long as they are "representative" of the actual girl, although I would prefer actual pictures of the girl's body with her face blurred, because to me the sexiness of the girl's body is the major element contributing to a girl's "hotness"."Representative" pictures means that pictures of a skinny, young, pretty brunette, with a good sexy body, are being used for an actual girl who is in fact a skinny, young, pretty brunette, with a good sexy body. Why on earth would I have reason to complain if a skinny, young, pretty brunette, with a good sexy body showed up on my doorstep in response to my call, when that is what I was expecting to receive. I would even be happy if the skinny, young, pretty girl, with a good sexy body, was a blonde or even a redhead. What the fuck difference does it make?

Now, there have actually been more than one delusional poster on this forum who have gotten it into their head that if the girl is not the actual girl in the picture, as promised, that she should be sent away even if she is a very pretty, sexy, very hot girl. Guys who think this way don't "get it". Perhaps they think that they will teach the "lying" escort agencies a lesson and if enough girls are sent away then the escort agencies will see the "error of their ways" and it will reform the agencies to be good henceforth and only use actual pictures, or at least admit to us on the phone that the photos are only simulation and representative of the model being sent. Such thinking is naive and betrays a total lack of street smarts. It will never happen. The only thing that will happen is that the delusional monger who sends away the pretty, sexy hot girl who showed up on his doorstep, will not have sex with that pretty, sexy hot girl he could have had sex with. I say he is delusional because he has forgotten the reason why he came to Kiev, which was to have low cost sex with pretty, sexy, hot girls, and instead he has gotten himself caught up in some deluded crusade to reform the internet outcall agencies to his own detriment, a task which is not worth wasting a second on. A more practical, goal oriented monger, would not entertain such nonsense, and would nail every sufficiently pretty, sexy, hot girl who presents herself for nailing, unless her price was too high, or her demeanor and personality too difficult. 'Nuff said on this, as my words are not for the guy who would think of sending a hot girl away, but rather are more for the benefit of those who are still in learning phase and open to insight.

So to get back to the original point, the only reason I would recommend considering not paying the taxi fee, would be when the departure from the truth was so egregious, that it displays utter contempt by the escort agency for you as a potential customer. This would be the case for example, when instead of the pretty, sexy, skinny, young brunette with the hot body in the advertised picture they claimed was a true picture, the agency sent you instead a very fat or very ugly woman. But for girls who are in between, meaning they are just average looking and not enough to your taste to waste your precious Kiev time on, as you are looking for a hotter daydream, more like the picture you saw on the internet, then I would take the risk of being black-listed more seriously and consider paying her the taxi fee upon sending her away. But even if you are sending a girl away, before you resort to non payment of taxi fee, I would recommend trying the following two things. First, I would show the girl who showed up the picture of the girl on the internet you were promised to receive by the agency. She has surely never seen it before. There is a possibility she may know of a girl at her agency that is more in tune with your desires and may be able to speak to someone back at the agency on your behalf to send that girl. This has actually happened to me, so I don't make this up out of thin air. Furthermore, I would get on the phone with the agency phone girl and call her on the misrepresentation about the girl's appearance, and say you have a girl here at your door who is simply not up to par and it is necessary to send her away, and obviously they are using fake pictures and lying about it, but that if they are willing to work with you and have someone who is a skinny, pretty and hot young girl, with a good body, then maybe you will work with them, and could they please send over their best two or three girls for you to choose from and you will pick one or two of them. These steps are surely worth trying before one resorts to simply sending away girls with no taxi fee, risking being blacklisted eventually.

The foregoing goes for all internet escort calls, whether from mamba. Ru, or top-modals. Com, or any other website advertising girls for 800 UAH ($100 USD) or a lower rate such as 600 UAH or 500 UAH per hour. There are reports of guys getting more than one hour for the 800 UAH fee, or getting the second hour for only a few hundred more grivna, so that the net result is an hourly cost significantly lower than $100 / hr.

There are also internet websites with ads for girls at the 1200 UAH ($150 USD) per hour price range. One might consider such ads, especially if they will discount the multiple hour rate, such as accept less for the second hour so that the total price will net out at closer to the $100 / hour zone.

Then there are internet agencies in Kiev asking for higher prices per hour, such as 150 EURO or 200 EURO per hour, which are rates that are very high for the Kiev local market, and are more international type rates that are usual for such escorts in western european countries. Such high prices are akin to the $300 / hr or $400 / hr being demanded by some of the Kiev hotties in the nightclubs like D'lux and Buddha Bar. The only justification for succumbing to such a high price is if one has struck out in all other avenues available in Kiev to get very hot women, (and their are plenty of hot women available in the $100 / hr zone in Kiev) , and / or one feels a desperate urge to simply have a supermodel to satisfy one's desire for such a creature, regardless of cost. There are no reported experiences, however, to justify an expectation that internet agencies in Kiev charging 150 Euro / hr or 200 Euro / hr will deliver the girls they have pictured in their internet websites. And it is entirely likely that they will deliver the same type of girls the lower priced agencies deliver, only they will do it at the higher price, so the joke is on you. For all we know, it could be the very same agency which has two different tiers of prices in two or more different websites that all advertise for the same actual girls, just at different prices. However, there is a possibility that this is not the case.

I found a similar situation existing in Prague some years back when I investigated that sex haven. After finding out that GFE sex that included OWO (oral without, I. E. Uncovered blow job) and DATY, as well as the other elements of GFE, with very high level beautiful girls was simply not available at the stripclubs in Prague, as well as not easily available at clubs similar to the vaunted K5 and others, and satisfied that the privat apartments didn't have the level of beautiful type models I was looking for, I tried some of the higher end agencies operating in Prague with very good results of amazing looking girls providing great GFE sex, but it cost a pretty penny.

So before dismissing the high end agencies in Kiev charging 150 Euro / hr or 200 Euro / hr entirely from consideration, if there is a monger out there who was prepared to pay $300 or $400 per hour demanded by a supermodel type in D'lux nightclub, it might be worthwhile for such a monger to investigate whether these types of very hot girls were available through high end agencies of Kiev as well, with any consistency. However, in the case of high end priced agencies in Kiev, I would not give them more than one chance to produce a supermodel, as advertised, to my door. If any bullshit is encountered in this, they will have revealed themselves as the same "bait and switch" scam artists as are the lower end agencies in Kiev, uniformly.

The only reason I have not investigated such high end agencies in Kiev myself yet, is because I remain satisfied with the level of beauty that I get with many girls at Rio strip club who are available for $100 / hr rate with a minimum of three hours per booking, for a total of $300/3hours. So I have not felt the need to entertain the demands of the hotties available at the nightclubs where I can see what they look like, nor the high end internet agencies where the girl is an unknown until she shows up.

As for a general survey of the available options in Kiev and detailed explanations of how to go about it all, well, that's what reading the prior posts as I recommended is all about.

Happy Hunting.

LJ

[Jim0129]

Thank you for a great report! Just one question, how much do you give a girl for taxi fare in Kiev? I am planing to go in the summer and I want to do exactly what you did!

I think I first went to Kiev around 2004/5 and I fell in love with it the first time I walked Kreshatyk. I've been back many times, pretty much always through work, but the one thing that's never changed is that buzz I get when I talk my first stroll along that busy, girl filled street.

Having just spend 10 day here (including a brief sojourn to Rovno. See Other Areas thread) , I was keen to try as much non-P4P action as I could lay my grubby hands on. Being there for 10 days meant that I could play the long game, which (unless you're Brad Pittski) is essential for results. I made a number of contacts through Mamba, but my real successes were actually girls I'd gone on the odd date with on previous visits and we'd just lost touch. Twice I met with girls I'd had dinner with before (with no results) , and twice I got luckier than I could have hoped.

First a detour. I didn't dabble much in P4P, but what little I did do (forgoing my usual favourite hangout D'Lux) was on Mamba. This site has always been 95% bait and switch when it comes to girls interested in sex for denghi, and it really is a lottery as to what's going to turn up at your door (and FYI, they ALWAYS promise that it's their photos, because mostly, they aren't going to the one showing up at your door, so what do they care about lying for?).

"our game".

[LilJoey]

But I did I eventually did get a hankering for a hot girl to just show up, fuck and then disappear (something non-P4Pers don't usually accommodate). So I decided on my last night run an experiment, I would call a number o girls from Mamba and only let one in if the photos were really hers. I was willing to tit about all night if necessary (The Expendables was on tv, I had beer, it was warm inside). As I was in a good mood, I decided to offer rejected girls taxi money. So how did it go? First girl, supposed to be blonde. 21, beautiful and slim. What I got was more like 41, chubby and slightly greying! She was sent away. Second girl, supposed to be 23, tall, slim, brunette, gorgeous. What I got, tall, horse like, big boned. She was sent away. Third girl, supposed to be 21, tall, slim, brunette, beautiful. What I got tall, slim, brunette, beautiful. But not the girl in the photos. So what a quandary. Should I continue the experiment or cash in and enjoy the night. Yes, doesn't take a brain surgeon to work that one out does it. 800 for 2 hours. Whilst I can't remember her name, I did get some photos (see photo thread) , she was 21, had good english and apparently was genuinely bi. She asked if I wanted her gf to come over too, I did, but when she called her friend was busy. Ah well, nearly. We had a few drinks, relaxed and eventually went to the bedroom where she performed admirably. Beautiful body and a great ass. Definitely recommended. As always I was incredibly sad to be leaving and very apprehensive about how soon I can get back. My advice would be to make the most of it before the Euro's start, no telling how that will impact the city in terms of "our game".

For all those p4p'ers out there, CallSign Papa's methodology is exactly how to handle Mamba. Ru, and a good illustration of the odds. I have stated many times before that although the pics on mamba are mostly fake (there are a small minority that have true pics) , you will probably have an experience similar to Papa's, with a few dogs showing up that must be sent off, and then you will soon enough get a hot girl showing up at your door. In a population where girls in the age bracket of 18 to 26 are mostly slim (ukraine doesn't seem to have the obesity problem in the degree that exists in the USA, judging by what one can see just taking a walk on Kreshatik) and a genetic pool with a tendency toward a very nice basic female shape, you are statistically likely to encounter hot girls in that age group if you persist. The common denominator that will produce a fair sampling of the population is: young girls who need money. This common denominator cuts across the population and includes all types of girls. So out of a pool of young girls who need money, you are bound to encounter a fair number of hot ones. It's simple statistics. My only comment is that I would use mamba during the daytime for experimentation and building up a black book with some good numbers of hot girls you can call on in future trips. Also bear in mind that with mamba, it is possible to get such hot girls at a very low rate. Papa reports paying 800 UAH, a standard rate used by many outcall escorts from mamba, but it was for TWO HOURS, meaning he paid 400 UAH per hour, or $50 an hour for a hot girl. That's a low rate, well below any other European city standard rate which hovers in the 100 Euro per hour zone.

However, my view is that during the nightime there are better p4p options such as Rio or nightclubs like D'lux or Buddha Bar, which offer other entertainment value, can yield much more beautiful girls, and are more fun environments compared to waiting in your apartment.

$$$$ USD. Debit Cards. X-change?

Few weeks ago I read in the news about limits on getting CASH!

Have to be registered or have documents?

Whats up?

Will my debit card 'spit' out grivnas!

Need to prepare. Thanks!

LS Guy

LS:

I was just there during the weekend at the end of November, and had no problem using my debit card to withdraw as much cash as I needed from various bank ATM machines, as well as the ATM machine inside Rio.

Well GT in Brüggen is IMO not at top at the moment.

Villa Vertigo has on the other hand a solid line-up with some Baltic / Russian girls.

I'll prefer Palace over Oase girl-wise.

Nille, thanks for the heads up. I also like Palace in Frankfurt and have developed a strategy which works for me in dealing with the sharky type girls or upselling of extras. But I can't say for sure which club has the better line up between Palace and Oase. I have found great girls at both. In the weekends I've been in Frankfurt I usually try to hit both, as Oase is close enough. Also, if I really don't like the line up at one of those clubs, I am not beyond simply leaving and heading for the other club, choosing to pay an extra entry fee, rather than ruin a weekend.

I'm planning a trip to Europe for weekend of February 16 to 21, and since I will be in Kiev at the end of March (March 28 to April 4) I am probably going to use the February trip to get to Frankfurt, or maybe try Berlin this time (or both). I also am considering stops in Zurich or Madrid, simply because the airfares come out lower when I fly into and out of those cities. I haven't decided on an itinerary yet, and it also depends on if some of my friends are coming with me this time or not, but if I get up to the Cologne area, I would probably try to hit both Goldentime as well as Villa Vertigo. Thanks.

LJ

[Polo79]

I am a first timer in Kiev taking in the beautiful sights and sounds. I was in RIO two days ago and it was quite a good show but I didn't see one yet that I wanted to spend 300 on. I've been trying mamba but it's hit and miss but its been mostly miss. I'm learning the ropes.

If anyone can PM recommendations for profiles on Mamba, it would be greatly appreciated.

I'll be in Kiev through the first week of January. If anyone wants to catch a few beers in the downtime, send me a PM.

[Misc123]

I think I first went to Kiev around 2004/5 and I fell in love with it the first time I walked Kreshatyk. I've been back many times, pretty much always through work, but the one thing that's never changed is that buzz I get when I talk my first stroll along that busy, girl filled street.

Having just spend 10 day here (including a brief sojourn to Rovno. See Other Areas thread) , I was keen to try as much non-P4P action as I could lay my grubby hands on. Being there for 10 days meant that I could play the long game, which (unless you're Brad Pittski) is essential for results. I made a number of contacts through Mamba, but my real successes were actually girls I'd gone on the odd date with on previous visits and we'd just lost touch. Twice I met with girls I'd had dinner with before (with no results) , and twice I got luckier than I could have hoped.

First a detour. I didn't dabble much in P4P, but what little I did do (forgoing my usual favourite hangout D'Lux) was on Mamba. This site has always been 95% bait and switch when it comes to girls interested in sex for denghi, and it really is a lottery as to what's going to turn up at your door (and FYI, they ALWAYS promise that it's their photos, because mostly, they aren't going to the one showing up at your door, so what do they care about lying for?).

I spent the majority of my time in Kiev going for dinner for regular girls, (5 dinner dates. 3 coffee dates = 3 over night stays from two girls, and one afternoon adventure with a third, them's good odds). Two of those girls I saw on numerous occasions and both mostly involved us being naked inside 4 minutes. If only I could have got these two together. Clearly the benefit of non-P4P dates is that if they don't like you or aren't into you in some way, they aren't going to be getting undressed near you anytime soon. That means if they do, they're going to REALLY into it (as only ukrainian girls can be, for me).

But I did I eventually did get a hankering for a hot girl to just show up, fuck and then disappear (something non-P4Pers don't usually accommodate). So I decided on my last night run an experiment, I would call a number o girls from Mamba and only let one in if the photos were really hers. I was willing to tit about all night if necessary (The Expendables was on tv, I had beer, it was warm inside). As I was in a good mood, I decided to offer rejected girls taxi money.

So how did it go?

First girl, supposed to be blonde. 21, beautiful and slim. What I got was more like 41, chubby and slightly greying! She was sent away.

Second girl, supposed to be 23, tall, slim, brunette, gorgeous. What I got, tall, horse like, big boned. She was sent away.

Third girl, supposed to be 21, tall, slim, brunette, beautiful. What I got tall, slim, brunette, beautiful. But not the girl in the photos. So what a quandary. Should I continue the experiment or cash in and enjoy the night. Yes, doesn't take a brain surgeon to work that one out does it. 800 for 2 hours.

Whilst I can't remember her name, I did get some photos (see photo thread) , she was 21, had good english and apparently was genuinely bi. She asked if I wanted her gf to come over too, I did, but when she called her friend was busy. Ah well, nearly.

We had a few drinks, relaxed and eventually went to the bedroom where she performed admirably. Beautiful body and a great ass. Definitely recommended.

As always I was incredibly sad to be leaving and very apprehensive about how soon I can get back. My advice would be to make the most of it before the Euro's start, no telling how that will impact the city in terms of "our game".

Hello, Callsign Papa. Good report. Do you think it is possible to PM me the mamba brunette girl's contact info. I will be there in Kiev in early January.

Thanks.

Miscgk

[CallSign Papa]

Hopefully Grivna and not euro or dollars?

Thanks. Was indeed Grivna Gergiev, have now uploaded some photos of her.