Kyiv

[Member #2001]

I am sorry Snowey, but you are very wrong. Where I live you can get 2 girls for all nighters, in the states. I mean you are more then welcome to pay 300 dollars for an hour or two, but that im my opion is just plain wastefull.

It is very true that Ukraine is a very poor country, but the majority of the wealth is centralized in the capitol. Apartments for sale are about 1200 and 1700 per square meter in the dontown area, sometimes more that. The house I live in cost about the same, and I do not live in a slum. It is in a suburb of a major metropolitian city.

I use to pay about 6 dollars for pussy in Ukraine and they were not pad at all, real GFE. No rush, and they did almost everything I asked forl. This was not a fluke. I use to get that type of service all the time in Ukraine. All thie girls know, that in Kiev, because its the capatial (thats where the money is). and that there arr too many ineestranzi there, that they can pretty much charge what every they want to and people will pay it. At least the torist will pay for it, but. I dont know too many locals that would pay 300 dollars for a couple of hours of pussy. Really, I hear this and I really am in shock that people would actually pay that much money for something like that.

I read the Argientianian boards alot and for top grade pussy (model type), it cost about 150 to 200 pesos. Its like 50 dollars for an hour or too. I understand that the latin women there are hot, and totaly preformers. It really makes me wonder why forieners are so wastefull? I remember I did have sex with some escorts in Kiev a while ago and I though that was expensive. It was about 30 dollars. That was before all the ineestranzi came and destroyed the market. The sex I had was nothing special. I am not sure if it was just my bad luck or what, but I would only rate them as average. Who am I to say anything about it? I am gratefull for the Americians boosting the local economy, because I know that the average Ukrainian knows what its like not to have money, and knows the value of a dollar. Really, thes people can make something from nothing. Anything to improve the standard of living there is fine by me. I have a certian fondness for the people that live there. I just would never pay 300 dollars to anyone for sex, ever and I never will (well maybe if there were Janet Jackson or Penolobe Cruz, I might thingk about it).

Not even in a major city in the US would I pay such prices. Hell, I use to love Amsterdam, but even that is too expensive for me now. Besides, its like a fuck factory there. Most of the girls just want to kick you out after 15 minutes. I can imagine thats what the mentality will be like for the girls, in kiev soon. If people will pay crazy amounts of money for a few hours of sex, even if there is no garrentee that it will be a GFE, then I am afraid that Kiev will be just like other mongering place in westen Europe where the girls try to get rid of you as fast as possible. Its a shame, but if the girls can get it, then more power to them.

Just my opion.

[Iceberg Slim]

Snowy,

You may not be a natural linguist but you are definitely a cunning linguist. Thanks for the info.

[Snowy]

Chorfa1
I'm not a natural linguist and I found the CDs tough going and pretty boring as a way of learning Russian. I picked up one of the learn Russian books initially and just started learning words that might be useful. By doing this I got my vocab to 300 words fairly quickly or so and found that I was able to understand the gist of a lot of conversations when in EE and make myself understood. After that I started trading language lessons with some Russian friends living in London/Kiev/SPB and this improved my skills better than any other CD or book - it teaches you how to understand Russian speakers at natural conversation pace - Russians and Ukrainians just refuse to speak as clearly or slowly as those guys on the CD. bastards.

PP Tours
What you pay workers and what P4P costs just aren't comparable. I'm a bit bored of people quoting economic stats in relation to punting prices. P4P quoting works both ways - yes the average wage in Ukraine is much lower than other places in Europe/States, but then again the people coming into somewhere like Kiev also have a different frame of reference. An overnight in England costs $800 min, and $1700 is not a surprisingly high quote. With that in mind $2-300 sounds like a bargain - most of the pros are aware of this discrepancy. Pricing for out-of-towners is created by both demand and supply and the expectations of both parties. As long as there are enough people to pay $200 for a session, why should the girls charge less? I get as much out of my clients as I can too.

If you come to Kiev for P4P with the attitude that you'll just pay what you consider to be the appropriate price based on the average wage you'll have a fairly lonely time. You said that "a hundred bucks in Kiev will get you the best software engineer, with a PhD, and not for a night but for a week or two!" - ask him if you can fuck him for that money, and see what his response is!

In answer to your question about what a good night in Kiev costs - $30-40 will give you a great evening out - entry into a club or two, pay for the taxis, allow you to buy a few drinks for you and a new friend or two. You can do it for less, you can spend a lot more - depends what you want to do.

Typical P4P price from River Palace/Moda - $150 as standard - $50 either way depending on the time of the year, number of foreigners around, time of the month (if the girl needs money for rent, she won't blow a chance for a good earner - if she's had two $300 clients the last two nights, why would she screw a tightwad for $100 or less?). This sort of money may get you an all nighter or just a couple of hours - depends on the girl and your negotian skills. Dial in escorts are $70-100 for a couple of hours.

On the other hand the frebbie scene is fantastic if you're prepared to put the effort in and learn how to press the right buttons with the locals. Each country has cultural differences which are worth learning about to get to this aim...which is why talking about these sort of things across the forum is not BS!

[TheGuyFromNY]

I learned Russian with Pimsleur. Works great to get started and learn enough to get around.

[Vegamars]

You're exactly right! The big cities on the east close to the Russian border such as Donetsk, Lugansk, Dniepropetrovsk, Zaporojzhe and Kharkov are much more interrelated with Russian.

Out of these places, especially Dniepropetrovsk and Lugansk are quite interesting and attractive in terms of hot girls.

[Best Sex]

In most of hotels in Kiev, you will encounter problem with security when you want to bring a girl into the hotel.

The best option is to rent private apartment. There are so many apartment rental business in Kiev. Some of them give you official receipts for you to use for your business trip.

If you want to rent very nice apartment in the center of Kiev, ask me the phone number. I don't know if I can post the number here.

[Iceberg Slim]

I really appreciated the discussions on the importance of learning Russian to score with girls.

Can the distinguished members of this forum share your experience on how you learned the language and how long it took you? Any particular programs.

Thanks

[Roger Mellie]

Vegamars,

I can say exactly the opposit thing about Kharkov. If you try speaking Ukrainian in Kharkov, people will think you are a lower class cleaner or something similar from the western Ukraine. Kharkov, Donetsk, Dnepropetrovsk and all the big industrial cities east of Kiev are practically 100% Russian speaking.

[Vegamars]

My point for Ukrainian was not for Kiev as I've pointed out.

If you happen to pass through Lvov or any small city around, just ask any native citizen what he or she thinks about Russia, nothing to be ashamed of or to take personally.

What I've reported is all out of observations and perceptions from a wider angle, I don't intend to influence anyone with my personal thoughts and that's why I've never talked about some really surprising unexpected unpleasent incidents that have taken place in many countries.

Of course this point is worth mentioning in terms of mongering in the right manner.

Otherwise, everything would be so straightforward throughout every location in CIS and we would need just one single forum..

[Jetlagged]

Aynak,

The President Hotel lobby bar is full of hookers from about 10 onwards. For this reason bringing in girls is discouraged but $20 to security will cover that. Have a word with the security guy manning a pedestal desk beside front door first.

The girls who look after the rooms live on the floor level they work on. Some are very pretty and will do the deed for half the price the hookers want.

[Snowy]

Ahh, the good Doctor! I think you wrote everything I wanted to say in response to Vegamars, although somewhat more eloquently.

I sometimes wonder if I'm going to a different Kiev, and indeed Ukraine, to the one Vegamars inhabits. His point about Ukrainians having a negative attitude to Russian speaking foreigners, is just not relevant to this forum. I do a limited amount of business and consultancy throughout Ukrain and, from an international perspective, its English first, Russian second and probably French, Spanish, Italian and numerous other languages before Ukrainian gets a mention. It's not expected by anyone. In Kiev especially, Russian seems to me the main social language spoken by the locals - they may do business in Ukrainian, but they socialise in Russian.

Throughout Ukraine, the dislike of Russians does not impact on foreigners unless you speak and act like a native Russian; you simply won't be classified in the same group. It just ain't an issue!

I think the key point from a mongering perspective is the one Doctor Skank makes about showing some respect and it is always - always! - well received. Every girl I've met in Ukraine finds it hysterical that I speak Russian (I have a shocking accent when I speak quickly and sound like the guy from the CD when I speak slowly). Even if we communicate in English, they'll always be a point where she'll teach me a few Russian phrases. Any "relationship" - even in the P4P arena - is better when there is a degree of equity. The attitude of the girl is just better, she gets to feel a bit superior (or it shows some vulnerability on your half), she is more relaxed and it works....for me....although apparently only with girls "of lower class and quality". Man alive!! I can't actually believe you wrote that trash - I'm stuck in London for a while and I would chew my arm off this evening for any of the girls "of lower class and quality" I've met in Kiev, and I'm a picky bugger.

I won't be in Kiev for a while, but now it's easy for fellow WSGers to recognise me - I'm the English bloke in the club, speaking a bit of Russian, with some hideous, lower class chav on my arm!

[TheGuyFromNY]

I stayed in the Dnipro just a few weeks ago and they now also look for $20 at hotel security if you are bringing a girl up to your room at night.

[Vegamars]

Other than Premier Palace and Dnipro, you'll encounter some kind of problem for bringing a girl in, which is not so difficult to settle down.

Especially in hotels like Ukraina and Kreshatik, the hotel security tries to take control so that you'll be dependent on the private room service within the hotel.

[Doctor_Skank]

Vegamars:

I have been to both Russia and Ukraine and yes, they are different. And the same.

Everybody has different methods of wooing girls and consequently various degrees of success.

Since this forum question was posted as information for newbies to Kiev however, I maintain that you are still better off knowing Russian than not knowing it. I think this is obvious.

In areas of Ukraine where Russians are particularly despised you may not want to speak Russian, granted... if however they don't speak English... especially a factor in smaller cities without a large student or well-educated population... they will speak Russian with you if it is the only method of communication.

Moreover, I also didn't detect the kind of hatred for the Russian language that you seem to have experienced. Admittedly however I haven't been to Lvov or the western areas of the Ukraine that you have travelled and cannot comment on that. In the center, east and south however Russian is widely spoken and accepted without a hint of animosity.

In Kiev in particular, and that is what we are talking about especially for the tourist monger, you are better off with Russian than without. It isn't absolutely necessary (especially with pros) but certainly helps.

If I can get away with speaking English with girls, I will. Obviously it is easier for me. But when making no headway with English whatsoever or a girl doesn't seem responsive to English, knowing Russian will definitely help get your foot in the door with some girls who are either not able to speak Russian or are not willing/confident enough to try their English. And besides, it maybe just me, but I think it is a sign of respect to at least try to speak a language that they understand. Making an effort, no matter how pathetic, is appreciated and may get you that indicative "fuck me" smile that you are looking for.

I've had to speak Russian to Ukrainian girls on many occassions... communication just wasn't possible with their miserable or non-existent English. Perhaps I have been only speaking to uneducated trash (your definition)... they still looked pretty damn good though.

And understanding each other, as you put it, is a form of communication. Granted communication is accomplished through many methods... but in 99% of the cases you are still going to have to speak to the girl and if all else fails, god forbid, speak a language she understands. In many cases, it isn't English.

You are obviously doing well with your method of avoiding speaking Russian and thankfully this will work with enough girls to keep you and most mongers happy. I still maintain that speaking Russian, even in the Ukraine, will open new doors and avenues to you and most certainly open a few sets of long slender perfect legs as well.

You will continue to do whatever works for you and your comments and advice are appreciated by myself and many others.

Newbies however would still be well-advised to learn some basic Russian (don't waste your time on Ukrainian unless you are planning on spending a lot of time in Ukraine) to help them achieve their goals and if nothing else, make them feel more comfortable in a country in which the ridiculous notion that "everybody speaks English" is an illusion.

[Vegamars]

The situation in Ukraine is a little bit different than it is in Russia.

The hate against Russian and the preference of Ukrainian on especially the western part of the country including Lvov symbolizes their independence against Russia.

If you try to speak in Russian in Lvov for instance, it could be difficult to get a reply at all.

The official written language is Ukrainian in the whole country and recently all students in university have had the choice of selecting between Russian and Ukrainian as the language of education.

Hence, if you really wanna express a girl in Ukraine, you could try to learn some Ukrainian.

In my opinion, the language barrier is not a problem that will interfere with communication cause our real aim is not communicating at all.

At times it's much better ro understand each other..