Kyiv

[Street Sleuth]

OK - couple more thoughts:

Agree with previous post - mortgage market still in its infancy. Until laws are worked out making the foreclosure process easier, clearer, and more certain, it will remain a small market.

The credit craziness is more on the level of auto loans, computer loans, washing machine loans, etc. High interest rates, lousy terms. The kind of stuff you generally find in the ghetto in the U.S. Sorry, but that's the way I see it.

I agree - credit is key for large purchases/investments (namely, real-estate). It is OK for autos. It is a lousy idea for consumer merchandise.

And I agree - real-estate has become a piggy bank for the wealthy. It has been a great investment. I suspect this will end real soon, and quite painfully for many. The reason why it can persist longer here (versus U.S.) is due to the very fact that real-estate isn't highly leveraged here. But all booms go bust, just the same.

[Street Sleuth]

Yeah, along with Uke Boy, I'll have to constrain myself. Banking/Finance/Real-Estate are my specialties....

I would agree, there is still general fear of depositing money in banks. The fears are well placed. I would not agree that the banks in Ukraine are in such good shape. As mentioned, the smaller banks are generally slush funds of the super rich and/or money launderers. The mid-sized to large banks make a profit by borrowing (deposits) at an average around 10%, lending around 15% (very rough numbers, depends on bank, currency type, and terms).

Ukraine banks aren't highly experienced in credit risk management. Additionally, they don't have a lot to go off of (no Experian, etc. in EE). Yes, yes, I know, banks in US are taking a beating right now, but overall, they're in better shape.

Simply put, I wouldn't put any large deposit in any Ukraine bank. Even the 'foreign' banks are really just Ukrainian subsidiaries of foreign banks - they are perfectly capable of going bankrupt, while their overseas parents take no loss/liability whatsoever (beyond equity they originally invested).

What does this have to do with mongering? Not much, so I'll stop there.

[Uke Boy]

The banking system here is typical of all businesses here, thoroughly schizophrenic and chaotic.

The locally owned banks are nothing but personal piggy banks for the wealthy to transfer and launder their ill gotten gains.

The banks now owned by foreign based banks (and many more are now coming into the market) do face problems since the legal system here is completely incompetent and corrupt with laws and taxes that do not promote actual business growth. That is why there is a flourishing gray market of doing business and a huge business in avoiding taxes.

The biggest problem for depositors is the pathetic level of insurance on deposits. Currently it is 50,000 grivna or $10,000.

Now I can tell you that many many people have much more than $10,000 hidden away at home. I can assure you that Mystery Tramp (now we are again on topic!) and her colleagues do exactly the same with their earnings. They and everyone else here all feel that this money is safer at home than at the bank. In addition, if the bank fails, chances are that the insurance system will not cover that loss.

As for mortgages and housing, that is another fairy tale.

In the new housing market, most apartments are built only when the builder has collected nearly the full price of the individual apartment from the buyer/owner of the apartment. This is a high risk investment for many people. Some get their apartments in about 2-3 years, others find out that the builder has laid the foundation, gone bankrupt and left with the tens of millions of dollars they all as a group invested. Unlike Russia where the law forbids such a possible scam, Ukraine in its infinite never-never land ways of doing things allows and even encourages such possible scams.

Because of this system, the mortgage system, while it exists, is still very much of an infant. I cannot say it is still-born but there are also real problems here for the mortgage holder. If the mortgagee wants to default on the mortgage, the present laws are so obtuse that even if the mortgage holder wanted and had most of the laws for eviction his way, he may well never be able to finalize that eviction based on other laws defending the rights of individuals to their homes.

In the secondary housing market, it is simpler. No mortgage. You pay the full price of the apartment in cash and it is yours. In most cases. Even here, there may pop up some people, usually distant relatives of the seller who may also claim rights to the apartment! But that discussion is for another time.

Evil, Citibank, Credit Suisse, ING and other such major western banks do not take deposits from normal folks. They take only corporate and commercial business. Privat as a local bank take such deposits, as does Rafaissen Aval, OTP Bank, Bank Austria and many others, including, of course, Oshchadbank.

[Maverick1]

I have had many people prefer other currency such as Dollars or Euros. I was told, but do not know first hand, the bank accounts are taxed for the money that goes through the acount. This would certainly make me think about how much I put in the bank, if any.

The country is going through some growing pains, prices are high because of EU investors but still has many old school Socialist tendancies.

While the lure of the west and joining the EU is appealing to the vast majority, it also appears that their neighbors to the East are still flexing and Putin is now looking at becoming Prime Minister. So much for term limits. Enough for me to think twice about investing.

[Evilz632]

Banks in Ukraine,

There are very good banks in Ukraine, but you are right, VERY many people just don't trust them for many reasons and until Ukraine's political future becomes clearer, people will continue to mistrust them, but with that said, the banks here are very good: Citibank, Credit suisse, Privat, ING etc. I know, I use them. And you are right, in the past, most people would try to keep their accounts in either Dollars or Euros, though they would get a higher return rate for keeping their accounts in Grivna. But for at least the past year or so, most people who knew what was going on started switching over to the Euro, and they are sitting pretty right now.

Most people who have large amounts of cash and don't want to keep their money in banks usually buy properties and cars, in Ukraine, as you all know, both retain their value quite well, and property has been one of the best investments over the past 10 years.

But as far hookers saving money, that would be a rarity, specially the ones you see hooking year in and year out, they do this because they are unable to save, it has nothing to do with being from EE, they are just irresponsible. But I do agree that with the coming of credit in EE, people are, in general, going credit crazy, like kids in candy stores. I personally think credit is a good thing, but only in large amounts, in small amounts , it turns countries into debtor nations like the USA and it's citizens into wage slavery candidates, and that is not a good thing.

Any intelligent hooker, is probably working part time to put herself through college or simply saving up to start a business or looking for a wealthy sponsor. Only the stupid ones are in the biz for years on end, because either they really like being whor*es or they are too stupid to get themselves out of their financial hole. Race doesn't really play a part, stupidity and immaturity does, and that isn't race specific.

Regards,

Evil Z

EDITOR'S NOTE: I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here for more information.

[Cruiser D]

unless i'm missing something street most people in the ukraine don't trust banks and really have a hard time getting their thoughts around the concept of a mortgage. as recently as what, 96 there was a bank crash in the ukraine - people still prefer to get paid in euro's or usd. i'm sure uke boy can give us the straight [CodeWord116] if he is so inclined and if it even matters.

[Europe Hunter]

Hi fellows,

I plan to visit Kiev in December and hence would like to find some female friends over the web :-) I would like to sign on to flirt.com.ua but I cannot translate the page with babelfish to English. I am little bit lost now because I can not read russian language. Maybe anyone can help and explain the steps I need to take to sign on. By the way - the page is free, isn't it? Or do I need to get a membership in order to contact the girls there?

Thanks a lot. Really appreciate it. Will report after successfull hunting :-)

Best Regards

EH

[Cumming To Kiev]

Just a quick one to add my two cents (or more like $200) to the Tanya thread.

When I was in Kiev last month (I'm here again right now by the way) I contacted Tanya from her profile on top-models.com. Ua and arranged for her to come to my hotel for a few hours of fucking. I got the call to say she was outside the hotel waiting for me, but when I went to meet her the girl there was not Tanya and did not do anal (my reason for meeting Tanya in the first place). I called Tanya and asked what was going on and she said that she was I'll (mysteriously she hadn't been I'll when I spoke to her an hour before! ) and had sent along her friend in her place. I said that I wanted to see HER and she said OK, but it would take her another hour to arrive. That fucked up my schedule for the rest of my day so I ended up fucking the friend instead. (She was OK, nothing special)

The next day I rang Tanya to rearrange. She was keen to come and meet because she said she'd spoken to her friend and had heard very good things about me (I think her friend enjoyed it more than I did! ). However she did say that she wouldn't be able to do anal with me because of what she'd heard about my size! Now, while my cock is bigger than the average mongering cock (20cm long and 15cm around) it's hardly the "footlong dick" that Evilz reckons she can take up her ass without flinching!

So if anal is your thing and you've chosen Tanya for that reason and you've got more than most in the trouser department, then don't be surprised if she wimps out of being sodomized by you!

[Street Sleuth]

MT already has a kid.

I can't say I know her well - very limited encounter - but a scary thought, just the same.

Alconizer - I generally agree, in that I don't have anything against the profession, or the women that practice it - but, in my experience, if a girl is in it too long, and too regularly (every day/night....), she ends up a bit twisted.

Lukasek - as for saving money, I think this is a problem with all peoples in EE. They live for the moment - get a paycheck, spend it all. They've become very credit-happy as well (they learn fast from the West....). This is one reason why EE seems so expensive to Westerners - although we can very well afford the best restaurants, hotels, cars, etc in EE, we're not of the mindset to spend every dime we have in a 2 week period....

[AColonizer]

From just a very brief encounter with MT - yes, she is a slim hot thing. But she is what I would consider a 'hard-core' working girl. There is no turning back for her. She is all about the money, and will likely never make it as a wife/mother.

This happens to the girls that go for too long in the profession, and become too obsessed with money for the sake of money.

Hi sleuth. I am not so sure like you because, ok, it is a reasonable logic that longtime prostitutes keep prostitute mindset for all their life, but it doesn't mean they can't have a happy life and a happy family, sometimes better than a normal girl. At last prostitutes find a rich man that can give them an unworried life (sorry for my english) and probably they will talk about their adventurous life to their nephews. To boldly go where no woman has gone before.

[Eros74]

From just a very brief encounter with MT - yes, she is a slim hot thing. But she is what I would consider a 'hard-core' working girl. There is no turning back for her. She is all about the money, and will likely never make it as a wife/mother.

This happens to the girls that go for too long in the profession, and become too obsessed with money for the sake of money.

SS I agree, I did not met MT but many like her, I guess what they will end to do when will have 40-45 yo?

I think only few of them save enough money for the moment they will be too old to be still in the business, so what other chances? Marry the first one who will take her?

[Cruiser D]

MT already has a kid.

[Street Sleuth]

From just a very brief encounter with MT - yes, she is a slim hot thing. But she is what I would consider a 'hard-core' working girl. There is no turning back for her. She is all about the money, and will likely never make it as a wife/mother.

This happens to the girls that go for too long in the profession, and become too obsessed with money for the sake of money.

[It Travel]

First off I don't think MT will have sex uncovered, let alone anal sex uncovered. First thing she told me was we always use a condom except for oral. Second thing is that antibiotics don't protect you. Sure they can cure some of the minor STD's but Herpes is a gift for live and HIV is a gift for death. So don't bring antibiotic bring condoms. If you really want to have unprotected sex and who ever you are with is OK with it then got to a clinic and both get tested for HIV virus and Herpes. There are tests that look for the virus and not antibodies. This means it can detect them much closer to when a person was infected. It is not fool proof but it is a lot safer than just hoping she is clean.




Can you blame them for lying? I am that every guy they meet tells them some lie or another. I know that some times I do, especially if they ask where I got their number or name. I don't say ISG, I say my friend "John". As for falling in love with a prostitute I know some people who have, one of which is very happily married with a baby. I know her and she is very nice. I know others as well that are quite happy in a monogamous relation ship with an ex-prostitute. But you have to be smart enough to be able to sort out which ones are just in it to take your money and which aren’t. And a key thing is that you must be able to forget what they used to do and NEVER remind them or use it against them in an argument.

OK, enough of my being preacie. Back to talk about sex with beautiful women...

PIT

Right... MT does only covered, but BBBJ and CIM are usually OK...

I think that's all...

Antibiotics... leave them home... and as PIT is saying brig plastic and lubricants (preventing from bleeding too!!)

And marrying Mystery Tramp... Mhhh fucking her is OK, but the girl is not so clever and most of all, you will marry a corporation... ya you have anal corporation, pussy corporation... and a lot of share holders in the corporation... At least 20 memebers here nailed her, most of them got back too and nailed her again, so why ruining her with a marriage. She wants to save money and go to Germany... could be a star in a FKK...

Just my two cents, knowing the girl well

IT

[PassinThrough]

Which antibiotics I have to bring to have an anal sex without condom with her?

First off I don't think MT will have sex uncovered, let alone anal sex uncovered. FirAs soon as we met and started messing around she told me that she always use a condom except for oral. Second thing is that antibiotics don't protect you. Sure they can cure some of the minor STD's but Herpes is a gift for live and HIV is a gift for death. So don't bring antibiotic bring condoms. If you really want to have unprotected sex and who ever you are with is OK with it then got to a clinic and both get tested for HIV virus and Herpes. There are tests that look for the virus and not antibodies. This means it can detect them much closer to when a person was infected. It is not fool proof but it is a lot safer than just hoping she is clean.

2. I will go to Kiev again on 10 November because I need a emotional break-up in my gray life. I don't know about you but I go with prostitutes NOT because I like prostitutes or I am perverted but ONLY because I need something different of gray people around here. I felt in love with Victoria, a nice prostitute in Kiev: I am silly, aren't I? I need to have sex like a pig but I need to love her. I don't know about you but the first person, that I find, is the right person for me. So it has happened with victoria. I met other girls in kiev, normal or prostitutes, but nobody has more feeling with me than victoria (except for Mystery Tramp, if she likes, I can marry her but she is not my ideal beauty) I know it is hard (or silly) to fall in love with a prostitute, I know she says to me a lot of lies (like all prostitutes) but I will try to get a glad life to her (with me). The hardest trouble in prostitutes' mindset is life = money and so my task is to change her mindset.

Can you blame them for lying? I am sure that every guy they meet tells them some lie or another. I know that some times I do, especially if they ask where I got their number or name. I don't say ISG, I say my friend "John" then give a vague description of a guy. As for falling in love with a prostitute I know some people who have, one of which is very happily married with a baby. I know her well and she is a great person and wonderful mother. I know others as well that are quite happy in a monogamous relationship with an ex-prostitute. But you have to be smart enough to be able to sort out which ones are just in it to take your money and which aren’t. And a key thing is that you must be able to forget what they used to do and NEVER remind them or use it against them in an argument.

OK, enough of my being preacie. Back to talk about sex with beautiful women...

PIT