Kyiv

[LuisVega11]

Kiev, Ukraine. A critical social study of the Culture.

If you guys want to skip this, the PFP Trip Report is further down below. Just scroll down to find the beginning. I figured I would post this first as it reads better than the other way around.

The Good in Kiev.

I found Kiev to be a clean city (for the most part) with little pollution. The systems are advanced with a good level of technology, goods, and services. The cost of food and lodging I found to be very inexpensive. For example, I could buy a small 6-sliced personal pizza for $2.50 USD and a large can of beer (4%-5% alcohol) for less $1 USD at Dominos Pizza. Incredible! No wonder there are so many Ukrainians shit-faced drunk late at night LOL.

I stayed in a nice hotel for $40/ night USD. They had an intelligent, English speaking staff and a 24 hour restaurant. The hotel included free WiFi, a complimentary computer area, concierge, taxis, etc. A great value for sure. BTW I stayed at the Hotel Rus and I would recommend this hotel.

The infrastructure of Kiev was impressive. There were large sections of the Kiev that were from the pre 20th century and well preserved with beauty and elegance.

The systems of transportation I found to be efficient and cheap. Going underground to cross many roads was interesting. There was a second city (existing underground) with a metro and shops in certain areas of Kiev...

Some good point but a lot of generalization.

- Zero team work? Look what they did in maiden. It was the results of super be teamwork.

- 40 years old ugly? Go to Gulliver and top notch arena and you see amazing 40 years old that look like 20 years in a beach in Miami. The problem most of 40 years old now are born in communist era. The new generation born after 1990 will be amazing till 50 probably due to the extensive care of body. I live in europe and while the 40 years old woman dress better and are more beautiful in face probably, body is no competition. I had a girlfriend of 34 years old with dress size that in western world only have girl.

- English is not known extensively but not so bad. And if they like you they will even chat with translator. Probably they didn't.

- in Ukraine and soviet world think less act more. Their world is completely different from you and me. You must accept all the controversy there are there. You won't change them. It's soviet union! Materialism is so strong now, woman are always considered sex object by men, they know both and so everything, especially for a foreigner, will be related to that. They want be happy you want pussy. Simply. The game is obtain the maximum with less effort.

- you overpay everything because you didn't study a lot. Taxi are expensive in the street, but expensive to where? 200 gryvna all in all are 8 euro. And for 89 euro where you go in your us city? Use uklon and be happier. Even prostitute you paid a lot especially for service.

In my opinion Kiev is not for you.

[Jojosun]

QUOTE=Burn Notice;1917735]I am more a contributor on the China forum. I'm based in Beijing.

I just drop by to let you know folks that we got some amazing, I should say stunning Ukrainian girls that arrived at Chocolates and Maggie's bar in Beijing last month.

They all live beside the LG Tower not far from Silk Market. During the day many of them are at the Starbucks in the area.

I picked up one girl very hot by all standard, blond blue eyes, fake boobs nice tan. She is from Kiev and she was telling me that her family and friends don't know she is a WG in Beijing.

,they think she got a marketing job and a rich boyfriend. She explained to me that she never work as a WG in Ukraine, she is too proud for that. Her friends told me the same story.[/QUOTE]I used to go to Maggie's Bar (aka, Mongolian Embassy as it was the base for Mongollian girls) during the times I was in Beijing but I never met Caucasian girls there. You mean its now been overtaken by UA girls?

I also met few Russian girls who used to work in Beijing when they were on short holidays to catch some sun during the Winter in Sanya Bay and they told me it was also like a working holiday for them to escape the winter in Beijing.

There are also quite few UA Girls now working in Tokyo's hostess bars in The Roppongi district, also Russian girls not the hard hoes type and they all speak English. .

[Burn Notice]

I am more a contributor on the China forum. I'm based in Beijing.

I just drop by to let you know folks that we got some amazing, I should say stunning Ukrainian girls that arrived at Chocolates and Maggie's bar in Beijing last month.

They all live beside the LG Tower not far from Silk Market. During the day many of them are at the Starbucks in the area.

I picked up one girl very hot by all standard, blond blue eyes, fake boobs nice tan. She is from Kiev and she was telling me that her family and friends don't know she is a WG in Beijing.

,they think she got a marketing job and a rich boyfriend. She explained to me that she never work as a WG in Ukraine, she is too proud for that. Her friends told me the same story.

They started this job first in Dubai and now in Beijing. They are getting comfortable with and making very good money.

Now she is my regular every week. Because she work Saturday and she is busy non stop hotel after hotel until six in the morning. She show up around 6:00 and stay until Monday evening. Damage 3000 rmb per eek (around $450 US).

Be aware, if you come by, you might be able to get a taste of your favorite girls on tour! Oh by the way there is more in Shanghai apparently.

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[Riina]

To Tuggar and Vegas Jeff:

You guys are thinking to much with your assumptions and judgements. I prefer my brainless approach. The girls only want my money. The girls know I only want their pussy.

Now just go make it happen.

[Horny American]

Well, whomever I talked to that day flat out lied as the Star Bar is closed.

I can understand the lie as its against their best interest to steer away business.

That being said, Hotel Lybid is still very cheap ($21 night free WIFI and breakfast included) and centrally located. It seems that just about all of the personnel here is completely new from my last trip. That's still OK as both the bartender and the doormen have girls just waiting on call and it's mostly like ordering a take out pizza. Say what you want and in 30 min it's there.

I've also been working on one of the waitresses from the restaurant which I think can happen and should be much more the "girl next door" type.

Thanks, I actually called and was told it was open. Hopefully that is true but if not I can always hit other bars etc and like I reported before the doormen at Hotel Lybid can easily arrange ladies as well. My hottest one was arranged that way and she was cheaper than the dancers as well.

[Tuggar]

Hi,

I'm new on this site. I'm a 25 yo guy in Kiev right now. I'm alone here so if you want to meet for a beer or for a night out let me know!

I've arrived in Kiev a week ago and I'm impressed by the quality of women here. They are tall, thin, with model faces, toned legs and dressed sexy. Just go to Gulliver shopping center or to a random subway station and you'll see lots of hot girls. You'll be impressed trust me.

That being said, they don't look like they want to meet foreigners, especially the hottest ones unless you're willing to splash out some serious money.

Girls don't give lots of eye contact here in Kiev, I don't know why. Maybe they're shy, maybe I'm not attractive enough or maybe it's just the culture but I've found that during the day they tend to walk with their eyes looking straight ahead without looking at the men walking by, especially the hottest girls.

Ukrainian guys in Kiev aren't that bad. On average they aren't handsome but among the younger generation (18-25 yo) there are quite a lot of Ukrainian guys that look good and you'll see them paired up with the hottest chicks in Kiev. Moreover girls greatly prefer local guys rather than foreigners.

Before arriving in Kiev I read that girls here don't care about a man's look but I didn't find it to be true. It looks like that the hottest guys in Kiev are with the hottest girls. It's true, though, that money can somewhat compensate for a lack of look because you'll also see ugly, fat guys driving Porsche, range rovers, Bentley and Maserati with attractive girls.

Taxi drivers here will always try to rip you off, so download the Uklon app as soon as you arrive. Ordering from Uklon you'll pay the same as locals.

Few people speak English so be prepared for that. Being fluent in russian is a great advantage (I'm not) to meet girls.

Prices aren't that cheap. Rent prices for a nice apartment in city center (Arena City) are quite high, I'm paying 1000€ for 30 nights and it's one of the cheapest solutions I've found. Nightlife is also quite expensive considering we're in Ukraine.

To be honest I don't like Kiev very much, It seems to me that girls have no desire to meet foreigners. I'll head to Lvov soon and then to Odessa.

Good luck everybody.

[Jonathan Pine]

Kiev, Ukraine. A critical social study of the Culture.

I saw a strong sense of Envy and emptiness in the pretty women of Kiev. Not all women were this way (obviously) but it was in the mood of Kiev. As someone who has spent extensive time in Medellin, Colombia I know about this very well and saw a direct parallel. What is sad is the women in Kiev are much better educated than the women in Latin America. I found the men to be macho as a counter to the women. Too many Ukrainians are focused on what others have (and not wanting them to have it) instead of better themselves and working together. This hurts the inner fabric of a society and makes them less productive and friendly. I also want to add that the women in Kiev age terribly as I saw tons of hot 20 year olds and few hot 40 year old. I saw mothers and daughters walking together and they looked tremendously different. ...................

VJ

Superb post, Jeff.

One of the best posts on the board. Regarding your observation about envy, there is an old Russian joke that goes something along the lines like this. "A genie grants some guy 3 wishes, asks him what he wants. Guy says a gold bar. Voila a gold bar appears! Guy's excited, says he now wants a mansion. Voila a mansion appears. Then the genie asks the guy for the third wish, but tells him that whatever he gets, his neighbor will get two. Then the guy says, "Well in this case, just poke one of my eye's out". This goes to show that there's a mentality that people would rather do something to the detriment of their self interest, rather than seeing other people become better off.

Yeah people age badly over there. 40 year old women already look so over the hill. They're kind of like flowers. They blossom early and beautifully. They also fade early. I guess it's kind of fair.

[TromsoMann]

Hello,

Hope you all are doing fine. I will be visiting Kiev from the 12th of August. I will be there alone so that's a bit of a drag. I have this idea of gathering 4-8 girls / women and arrange a great sexparty while I'm visiting Ukraine again. It would be great to find someone who is interested in this as well, then rent some great place, sauna or similar where we could organize this party? Let me know if you are up for it.

If you just want to hit the town together, that's fine as well.

[Vegas Jeff]

Kiev, Ukraine. A critical social study of the Culture.

If you guys want to skip this, the PFP Trip Report is further down below. Just scroll down to find the beginning. I figured I would post this first as it reads better than the other way around.

The Good in Kiev.

I found Kiev to be a clean city (for the most part) with little pollution. The systems are advanced with a good level of technology, goods, and services. The cost of food and lodging I found to be very inexpensive. For example, I could buy a small 6-sliced personal pizza for $2.50 USD and a large can of beer (4%-5% alcohol) for less $1 USD at Dominos Pizza. Incredible! No wonder there are so many Ukrainians shit-faced drunk late at night LOL.

I stayed in a nice hotel for $40/ night USD. They had an intelligent, English speaking staff and a 24 hour restaurant. The hotel included free WiFi, a complimentary computer area, concierge, taxis, etc. A great value for sure. BTW I stayed at the Hotel Rus and I would recommend this hotel.

The infrastructure of Kiev was impressive. There were large sections of the Kiev that were from the pre 20th century and well preserved with beauty and elegance.

The systems of transportation I found to be efficient and cheap. Going underground to cross many roads was interesting. There was a second city (existing underground) with a metro and shops in certain areas of Kiev.

I found the education level to be good through the high school level making some basic things fairly easy to do. I found many Ukrainians to be critical thinkers as well.

I found the women of Kiev to be beautiful and fit. The mid-level beauty of women was overall as good as I have seen just about anywhere with the top level women being stunningly gorgeous. The women in Kiev were right up there as being some of the most physically attractive as I have ever seen IMHO. All one has to do is take a walk down K Street at night to see what I am talking about.

Some of the best women I met would have made great companions. I found these women to be physically attractive and level headed. These women did not have an entitled attitude as well.

IMO Ukrainians are closer to escaping poverty than some of the Asian and Latin cultures I have visited in the past. I would not be surprised if Ukraine makes a cultural advancement in the future but I am not betting on it.

I met cool foreigners from Europe and Canada. These guys had great senses of humor, were humble, and critical minded. I laughed my ass off hanging with these guys and they made my stay in Kiev more enjoyable.

Cheap living, good food, advanced systems, educated people, beautiful women, etc. This has to be paradise, doesn't it?

The Bad in Kiev.

I will start with something that is important to me personally. The English level is lacking in Kiev. I was expecting Ukrainians to have more basic English. I was told that in China and Kiev the majority of under 30's had basic English and this was greatly overstated in both places. In malls, restaurants, the common areas in the upper middle class and above, etc the amount (and level) of English is lacking. I was told (as a decent looking, middle aged American man) that the women would be strongly inclined towards me. I felt a slight inclination but was unable to communicate with the majority of people. As a social person I found myself greatly restricted. BTW talking through Google Translate is not my idea of socializing and many of the women who would have wanted to talk with me could not. The need for Ukrainian / Russian was greatly understated and IMO this could be a reason why less single men travel to (or return to) Kiev.

Although I found transportation to be cheap and efficient, I found taxi drivers to be dishonest and hustlers. When I took a taxi from my hotel to various places the cost was 60 UAH. When returning the taxis wanted 200 and I found it a negotiation to get a 100 fare with many refusing. Taxis instinctively said 200 most of the time no matter where I was when asking for the fare. I got in the habit of just offering 100. Also, night rates were higher (when getting a taxi off the street) and locals and foreigners confirmed as much. I found all of this to be a headache and cost ineffective. Maybe I could have got a taxi cheaper by calling the company directly or using a mobile app but I am not going to wait 10+ minutes when a taxi is waiting right in front of me and I shouldn't have to. If a taxi is willing to travel to my location to take me somewhere, a taxi sitting right in front of me should be happy to do it for the same price.

I saw a strong sense of Envy and emptiness in the pretty women of Kiev. Not all women were this way (obviously) but it was in the mood of Kiev. As someone who has spent extensive time in Medellin, Colombia I know about this very well and saw a direct parallel. What is sad is the women in Kiev are much better educated than the women in Latin America. I found the men to be macho as a counter to the women. Too many Ukrainians are focused on what others have (and not wanting them to have it) instead of better themselves and working together. This hurts the inner fabric of a society and makes them less productive and friendly. I also want to add that the women in Kiev age terribly as I saw tons of hot 20 year olds and few hot 40 year old. I saw mothers and daughters walking together and they looked tremendously different. This is far contrast from my previous location where the women of Spain aged very well IMO.

Kiev is a fashion culture. Ukrainians spend lots of money on clothes, especially shoes. Recently, I was in Sydney, Australia. Australia has the highest minimum wage in the World ($13 USD / HR). The average wage in Kiev is $300/ month. I bet many people in Kiev spent more money on clothes than Australians do. This is a terribly sad cultural retardation. The people in Kiev desperately need things other than expensive clothing yet their decision making is like unintelligent children.

I found many Ukrainians to have bad instincts with limited courtesy. Absent were the subtle movements (and the looking out of the corner of one's eye) to be courteous towards others. This was noticeable in many areas of life from walking through a door at the same time to people walking directly at one another with limited space. Subtle movements were replaced with abrupt last second adjustments with many times people touching one another. I became very friendly with the concierge at my hotel and we spoke multiple times daily. I would estimate that I encountered 50 people walking up to the concierge desk while I was talking with her. Not one time did anyone say excuse me or give me a courteous gesture. It was as if I didn't exist. This is a perfect example of the culture in Kiev. Although I saw a warmness and affection between couples and friends, I felt a general "coldness" and a "discontent / unhappiness" in the general culture of Kiev. I was not "moved" by the energy of the people and would have found it to be draining to be in Kiev for an extended period of time. Another important factor to consider is the weather is brutally cold for the majority of the year in Kiev.

I mentioned the critical minds of some Ukrainians and their intelligence level. Why are they not more productive and the standard of living not higher? I found a teamwork attitude to be lacking in Kiev. There wasn't an energy of productivity in Kiev yet the people were generally serious. I noticed underemployment in Kiev. I saw many people with mindless jobs relative to their intelligence level. I saw many others working too hard (using their minds) with little reward or compensation. A spoke with a number of young professionals and all of them wanted to leave Kiev. I have never seen any culture where people wanted to leave to this degree. This strengthens the First World and keeps Ukraine down. This has to be somewhat demoralizing for the culture at large. How are businesses going to come to Kiev, creating jobs and providing tax revenue for the government?

Kiev's business culture is awful. Relative to the IQ level and technology this could be the worst business climate in the World. Kiev is a Second World country that is producing at a Third World level. I observed a ton of anti-business policies and attitudes in Kiev. I didn't let these things bother me (as I rose above) but these things would have gotten to me with time. There is almost a sense of vindication in the people when explaining why something can't be done as well.

I was ready to leave Kiev after a week and wouldn't have wanted to stay another day. With this said, there is no other place I would have wanted to stay (during that week) if I had to do it over again. This was personal as something happened to me mentally while I was there. A completion of a puzzle of sorts took place during this time.

I hope you gained something from my social study of Kiev, Ukraine.

Kiev, Ukraine. PFP Trip Report.

When I arrived in Kiev (and saw the women) I said to myself, "Why aren't there more sex mongers here? The women are beautiful!" I was soon to find out the reason why.

In countries like Kiev (where taxi rates are cheap) I always use taxis to get on my feet. I met two English speaking taxi drivers who showed me around. They were honest and knowledgeable. These guys were great and I was comfortable with them. I paid between 300-500 uah depending on the time (1-3 hours).

I was in Kiev for one week. I went to Buddha Bar, Shooters, Rio, and 3-4 strip clubs (sorry I don't remember the names). I also went to about 10 mps / casas. I walked K Street (with a taxi driver) and went to a few local bars as well.

The Kiev pfp scene is hardcore and expensive. Let me give an illustration. When taking a taxi from my hotel to the mall, the rate was 60 uah. After giving 70 upon arrival, the drivers responded with a smile. When trying to get a taxi to return (from the streets) they wanted 200 and acted as if 200 was nothing. The pfp scene was full of the taxi drivers asking for 200. Where were the 60 taxi drivers (the humble, unjaded hookers)? Get the picture.

I had sex with 2 women (one woman twice) and the sex with one was really good and the other was great. The cost was 2500/ HR ($100 usd) and 2000/ HR ($80 usd) respectively. Both included BBBJ. One session was 4000 for two hours which included BB everything. My favorite got sick or I would have had more sessions with her. There were smoking hot hookers amongst the rubble but all had bad attitudes. Many of the newer hookers were standoffish as well. If I were in a picture taking contest (to impress my friends or have memories of pretty women) I could have pulled the hot ones and you guys would have said "ooh and aah" but f*ck that! I also won't let the good sex I had with two hookers bias my overall opinion in Kiev's hardcore / cold pfp scene. If I were in Kiev for months I could have built a roster of BB everything hookers with seeds planted with taxi drivers and other hookers for new ones as well. This is a "home game" and most guys have limited time and these boards should reflect the short term visitors to a locale IMHO (a few days to a few weeks).

I had 4 Thai massages and they were great. The cost was 430 for 40 minutes and 680 for 2 hours. For 3 of the massages I paid an extra 200 for HJ's with one woman refusing. I received 2 massages from one woman, fingering her and rubbing her clit during the HJ. These sessions couldn't have been better. This woman was warm and playful which was a huge difference from the cold hookers in the pfp scene. I was completely satisfied with the Thai massages.

I found the "mood" in the pfp scene to be full of pros having bad attitudes with the majority being unattractive and overweight. These places had a professional feel, limited availability, and were not comfortable places to relax. There was very little "horny" in the eyes of the hookers in these places. I received strong eye contact (at night especially) from regular women that I couldn't communicate with while the hookers were not warm or horny. They acted as if the money was nothing when all I would have had to do was have decent Russian / Ukrainian and I would have done very well with the local non pfp women in the streets (especially K Street). Don't forget the average salary in Kiev is $300 usd / month. The hookers acted as if $80/$100 USD / HR was nothing. If the average salary was $3000 usd / month their attitudes might have been more tolerable. After talking with non pfp women at their jobs daily (who were working for measly sums) I found these hooker's attitudes to be intolerable.

I found it difficult to have private conversations, with other hookers surrounding me and listening in, which was uncomfortable. This setup (within the places) was the norm and not the exception. When I asked to have one minute to ask a question (and give them my rap) I felt awkward with the mood changing many times. A common response was "Why don't you take me to the room and we can talk there". At 2000+ uah per hour I wasn't planning on talking too much in the room and guessing whether a hooker was going to be nice in Kiev's cold / hardcore pro pfp scene. Don't forget Kiev's pfp scene was full of local women and not hookers on "business trips" from other countries. These attitudes from local hookers was an uncommon, unpleasant surprise.

When I mentioned BBBJ, I have never seen such abrupt responses. If the hookers were horny, unjaded, and not defensive they would have accepted BBBJ (in a second) from a guy like me. I was just a number to them. Don't forget there were nice looking women with good attitudes in the streets who would have loved to have a beer if I had better Ukrainian / Russian. I would have done better with Ukranian / Russian in Kiev than with my Spanish in any Latin Country IMSO. BTW I am 42 years old (look about 35), am well groomed, look decent, in good shape, and am a very social person. I have A level street game and my friends challenge me to talk to random women all of the time. These attributes were worth very little for pfp as the language barrier was significant and the hookers were too hardcore and jaded to be reachable.

I met a number of girlfriend quality women (at their jobs) who greeted me with smiling faces who were very open. These women told me about their lives and how their days were going each time I saw them. They weren't just going to hop into bed with me nor would I expect them too.

Speaking to taxi drivers and foreigners visiting, I was told the internet was hit or miss. Many fake profiles and hookers posting their best pictures which didn't reflect reality. I know something is there (especially considering the cost standpoint) when cutting out the middle man.

I do want to clarify that I was not on a PFP trip but was doing more of a social study of different places to live for months per year. Kiev fell short of expectations as there was less English than I expected as well as many other problems with the culture itself.

I want to add that I was thoroughly impressed reading the posts in Kiev's thread. I saw critical posts (without being jerks to one another) from many BM's expecting to see 2000+ posts next to the names. Instead I saw 20 to 200. Impressive fellas!

I hope you guys gained something from my report. I received my PFP info from ISG's threads. I know the owner of another site and posted this report over there so I figured I would post it here as well.

Good luck to all.

VJ

[Russel4339]

Thank you Luis.
Personally I don't buy into this idea that the bigger spenders spoil the market for everyone else. Ukrainian girls are smart enough to know you charge the rich guy more than the poor guy because there are not enough rich guys to go round. What I do think has happened and has not been commented on is that $ P4P prices have not decreased to reflect the devaluation of the Hryvnia. For a Ukrainian $100 is now worth more than it was 2 years ago and yet $ prices for girls have not changed. This means a girl in Skybar or Avalon only has to get one guy to pay 300 plus and she's set for the month: the rents paid. That I suspect is what's affecting supply. It's not that people like me are paying more it's because we're paying the same but in $.
.

Yes. But you need consider where the prices where four years ago when it was 8 UAH /$ - the prices have not tripled to reflect this devaluation of the UAH against the dollar. (I would say that they have doubled or gone up 2. 25 x).

Also. UAH rates tend to be seasonal. The UAH right now is in summer mode at 25 UAH / However, if it is a typical year. The UAH will be at 27-28 UAH by mid October and I don't think the prices will change much to reflect this either. So come in the winter and you will be happier. .

[Horny American]

No offense, but I take it that you do not know much about strip joints. The strip joint makes most of it's money off of the alcohol (huge markup) and the fee's charged for you to see the dancers in the main room. It's already been reported how much higher their prices are for the alcohol too. They are nearly double the prices of the hotel bar and you know the hotel bar is still making a profit as well.

The dancers make almost nothing out in the main room which is why they ask for either tips while dancing or for you to go for a private dance which is where they make the majority of their money. Not all of the dancers are even interested in going upstairs with patrons. Last year the sexiest one of didn't do it at all and even the bartenders and doorman said you would just be wasting your time if you tried to get her. That she could not be bought, she only did dances and that was it.

Nearly all my negotiations for the dancers actually took place either in the hotel bar or even outside when they were not dancing. The dancers are often charged a fee by the house just to work there as well. That is why they are serious about making money when they are working. It is very easy for the club to make money if they get one or several men inside drinking and get lap dances. I'm still sure that the club makes much more money on the weekend than the rest of the week combined.

Bottom line: The club hires girls to get guys in. You're charged a cover charge, you're charged for pole dancing show etc, you buy massively overpriced booze. It's very easy for guys to spend more than they intend with sexy girls and alcohol combined. Business men and tourists make up most of their trade not locals.

Not to mention the private lap dances in the back room where action can take place as well but again most dancers will ask if you like them etc and if you want to take them up to your room and suggest for you to buy them a drink in the hotel bar to get to know each other first before settling on a deal.

That sir does not make sense. What's the incentive for the strip club to find girls, give them a venue, and then offer them to you for $100? Are they slaves?

[KareteKid90]

Hey,

Coming soon I will go to Kiev, you think Mamba girls are trustable? Anybody experienced something bad with Mamba?

The other question, apartment or hotel is better in terms of bringing another person?.

Thanks,

Kid.

[Riina]

Most of the dancers came down to $100 or less for a visit upstairs.

That sir does not make sense. What's the incentive for the strip club to find girls, give them a venue, and then offer them to you for $100? Are they slaves?

[Vaape Camhel]

I am preparing for my trip to Kiev in mid August. Just like Mr HornyAmerican says, I'm betting on friendly doormen as backup. A Andrew Jackson could open few doors. ? I booked hotel Ukraine suite. So far mamba got me quotes ranging from 50 to 200 usd. Couple of very interesting birds there. I'm on my thirties but I would prefer to get laid without going any noisy clubs.

Does anyone know when universities academic term begins in Kiev. I went through couple of uni websites but didn't find anything. A walk near any university could be worth while. Actually I'm going to see Chernobyl, but afaik lobby bar of Polissya hotel in Pripyat isn't popular among WG's anymore.

[Horny American]

Well, I can only say per my own experiences and I also believe that since it's obvious I'm not local etc (very little Russian etc and dress / talk like an American) that the dancers all asked for higher than normal amounts. One very hot girl stuck to her $200 asking price no matter what and since I didn't give in I didn't get to try her. Most of the dancers came down to $100 or less for a visit upstairs. Most of them preferred a CBJ and then CFS and the number of pops depended upon the girl. A few said just one pop but most allowed two. Several even offered all night pricing as well.

The best deals though were arranged by the doorman that I friend. The girls he arranged were just $80 and that included multiple pops and pictures as well. I could've got an even lower price but I wanted the pics for a souvenir. One girl I saw twice since she was pretty cute and just great in bed. Since she was a very nice girl that seemed to be just trying to get by I'll keep all the pics of her face and the action shots private and just show pics that don't identify her.

Note: All the doormen and even the dancers preferred to negotiate in US Dollars which didn't really matter to me but thought I'd point it out.

Hi Horny American,

That was a piece of very useful information.

I think I'm going book a room at this hotel. I was wondering how much do those dancers from the strip-bar want for their services up at the hotel room? And by the way are those girls shown by doormen worth to try?

P. S I know that it's just the matter of taste, but I prefer girls with tattoos, they turn on me on somehow.

Looking forward to your reply.