Kyiv

[Cruiser D]

Bez, you need some new connections or to move to a better area. I'm still living the life in the US.

[Bez Bezarra]

You end up feeling worse after the sex than you did before.

This is almost always guarranteed in the land of freedom and democracy.
And that's if you can even get to the sex, at least in my neck of the south.

I make it a point to always seek out visitors from other countries, but
sadly they almost always have american-ized so much that they aren't
any better than their US counterparts.

For example, in massage rub-n-tug places, I found a brazilian and a korean
provider. I guess I caught the brazilian at the right moment of horniness,
and got in her pants without her asking for $250 up front, so afterwards
I just handed her $50 as a tip and walked out before she could complain.
That didn't include the $65 hour fee I paid at the front desk. Of course,
in this place, they expect you to get it over with in 5 minutes, 10 max.

Also found a korean who said absolutely no intercourse allowed or she'd
be fired, and absolutely no home visits to my place allowed either. Best
I could do was some DATY, she was very sweet and its a shame that
was all as she probably would be a great fuck. But alas, nothing better available.

So there's just no satisfaction to be had at home.

There were times in the 1980's and 1990's when some nice times could be
had in the US with the right connections, but those days is long gone. Very long gone.

So what's a monger to do? Read and study ISG, and grab my passport for
another road trip to Candyland!

[Doctor_Skank]

The myth of the expensive EE hoe selling herself for harsh necessity is BS. Those girls are not selling their ass for survival, they're selling it so they can buy BS status accessories (expensive mobiles phones, Prada shoes, D&G jeans, ect) and live a livestyle that would normally be out of their reach if they managed to do it and make month end without whoring. They become hoes just for the same reasons that some girls become escorts in western countries : because the money is good. And if they can stand having sex with old fat guys, the work really isn't that hard.

Getting us to feel sorry for them is a big part of their scam. I personnaly never felt and will never fall for this.

Some of you 'experts' seem to forget that prostitution is all about role playing. That's live theater, that's all.

Pro:

I like your analogy of prostitution being live theater. Respect. That comes pretty close to the way I deal with the individual pro. And is why I like to bring a video camera. I'll remember the term "live theater" next time I'm on the road...

But regarding the comments of my fellow mongers below, since when are we talking explicitely and exclusively about expensive hos? And since when are we wholly generalizing?

I also don't feel one damn bit sorry for those cold pros that scoff at a fair offer with the argument that "real men" can pay $500 etc or counter any small talk with "don't do this, don't do that and make up your fucking mind" all while looking at her D&G watch and texting her padrushka on a sponsered $500 phone. The vindictive mercenary-like pro doesn't enjoy my sympathies and experienced mongers avoid these girls like the plague anyway. I've seen Cruiser, 109 and a number of other experienced mongers "in action" at clubs and these girls don't stand a chance with them. I trust that most of the experienced ISG public behaves similarly.

By the same token, I believe if a girl is just trying to get ahead in life and afford some fun accessories so that she can live a glam lifestyle I am happy to support her... just as long as her price is fair and her service is good. Fair price is a relative thing and also dependent on the situation... market prices for the venue you met her in etc. etc. Just because you can bang a salon girl for $60/hour doesn't mean a RP girl has to accept the same tarif. If you want salon prices go to a salon.

Irregardless of where I picked up the pro though, I personally have very rarely been confronted by pros that complained or whined about anything. The vast majority simply did their job without complaint and most seemingly enjoyed the evening. Only after some candid conversations or some keen observation on my part was it apparent what was going on. The girls neither asked for extra money or support and certainly didn't ask for any sympathy. Hos are a tough breed. I've seen them deal with broken condoms, cold showers, utter exhaustion, theft by other mongers, fear and any number of other problems with a bravado and panache worthy of a SAS HRT.

I usually treat pros like girlfriends... as generous as I feel appropriate without overdoting and overspending. It's a system that works for me and one that gets the best response from them. As 109 said, after all they are also humans... and at the end of the day, women are women and its easier to love them than to fight them.

One of the golden rules of mongering is that there is a fine line between being a chump and being a champ.

But we are talking about hos in general and the notion that they all live happy lives as Gabbana-clad princesses is pure propaganda that some astonishgly inept mongers choose to believe, as it apparently matches their skewed outlook on life and disturbed relation to the female species. Some of the woman-hating comments here seem more appropriate in a Sharia textbook than a forum for educated mongers. I find it equally sad that some seem to have declared war on females and hold them responsible for all the frustration they feel in their lives. Sad indeed. Get a life or get a grip is all I have to say to those.

IMHO it is a relatively simple situation. Fuck enough girls and sooner or later you will have fucked some that are losing the game or most probably, never even really had a chance to win.

Night Flight in Moscow and River Palace in Kiev are full of the mercenary-type pro. If you get the wrong one of these, you'll end up feeling worse after the sex than you did before. Get a good one AT A FAIR PRICE and you'll cherish the memories.

Napalm in the morning. Smells like victory.

"Damaged goods" pros are primarily found at the middle to low levels of prostitution and BY NO MEANS are they ALL damaged or living horrible lives. It is rare however to find one that can continue the job for any length of time without going cold or suffering a disturbed relationship to sex or relations in general.

In fact, THE SAME CAN PROBABLY BE SAID FOR MANY MONGERS.

I am by no means trying to take the high moral ground. I am a monger. I fuck women for money. I've fucked angels and devils. High-class hos and 80 IQ country girls from the port.
I've seen both ends of the spectrum and know that prostitution is a job for many, a lifestyle for some and for many others, simply a cruel fate based on economic necessity, poor career choice, abusive boyfriends or simple bad luck.

Denying the fact that many girls suffer from prostitution is silly. It is equally silly to say that all suffer... obviously many profit from it big time and go home laughing at the pathetic men that pay for the holidays, clothes, cars and presents for their real boyfriends.

I prefer my girls somewhere in between, and that's why I am generally quite choosy... often going to clubs and leaving alone because I didn't find anything I liked or any girl I got good "vibe" from.

It's all about keeping your eyes open. And if need be, wallet in hand.

[Prosal]

we re simply saying that high class prostitution is not all Versace dresses

The myth of the expensive EE hoe selling herself for harsh necessity is BS and nonsense. Those girls are not selling their ass for survival, they're selling it ONLY so they can buy BS status accessories (expensive mobiles phones, Prada shoes, D&G jeans, and yes, Versace dresses) and live a livestyle that would normally be out of their reach. They become expensive hoes just for the same reasons that some girls become escorts in our western countries : because the money is good, and if they can stand having sex with old fat guys, the work really isn't that hard.

Yet getting us to feel sorry for them is a big part of their scam. I personnaly would never fall for this.

Some of you "experts'" seem to forget that prostitution is all about role playing. That's live theater, that's all.

[One O Nine]

By the way: how did you meet all these working girls? Was it in your role as worker for the Salvation Army when you were trying to rescue them?

Oh Fido, you card.

Or were you "buying their bodies and thus leaving marks upon them"? And now your christian moral makes you feel guilty?

When did I ever say anything about Christianity? Or can you not imagine an atheist having morals?

Most women I met want something back in return for sex. If it is not money then it is a relationship they want in return. A relationship that might vary from sponsorship to marriage.

"All women are *****s", "pussified men of the western society", "men are victims in a divorce", and other golden oldies - non stop, every hour on the hour, brought to you by Fido Dido!

Do you have any original thoughts? All your arguments are either tired straw men that collapse under their own weight, or banal fallacies.

And of course, women do want something from you in a normal relationship. They're human beings, after all, and all human beings enter relationships to satisfy their own personal needs. What exactly would be an alternative? Women who fuck men because they consider men to be their superiors and accept sex as the inevitability? Ha! Even 30,000 years ago those kind of views would get you laughed out of the cave.

Anyway, to me the reason is getting more and more clear why in western culture (were guys have a mentality like "One o Nine") even unfounded aquisations of sexual harresment can have far going consequences for men!

Oh hey, I've been waiting for you to drag the staple of all intelligent discussions, the sexual harassment straw man! Do you need a few suggestions on other sweeping generalizations you can make? They're G-R-R-R-REAT for those situations when you don't have any arguments left on topic.

[Her555]

I will be in Kiev the begging of march, I wont to try from gia this four girls

1) lilia (blond and toll). 2) oksana (beautiful and toll). 3) yana (skinny, blond and sexy). 4) yulia (good reviews).

But the reel secret in injuying sex is the girl shad enjoy and shad be hot, can someone Tel me in their opinion the best one ?

Thanks in advents

[Robert1110]

Hello Mr Connection,

I live here in Kiev. We met maybe 2-3 years ago briefly at an office.

I want to talk to you, meet with you and participte in watching / learning how you go about this. I have had enough of the agency girls and meet most of my current GF's on the internet. I want to do the street scene. Contact me. I tried to send you a PM but it does not work for some reason. send me a PM with a way to contact you, I will send you my email and phone.

Thanks

[Cruiser D]

Fido, I always thought the myth of poor canine vision was just that but...

No one has yet to mentioned anything that you have been going on and on about. Myself, the good Doctor and 109 - who combined have probably fucked more prostitutes and women in general then you could think is possible in your dreams; are simply saying that prostitution in general and high class prostitution specifically is not all Prada phones and Versace dresses. There is a heavy emotional toll to be taken in most case. How do we the trio of whoring muskateers know this - because for the most part we are actually decent human beings who actually develop human relationships with the girls. We get to know their back story, keep in touch (sometimes REALLY in touch) and keep an active interest in what they are doing as people. And in 109's case he is such an out of control stud it's generally my job to keep the girls off him in clubs so he can move.

Now just stop going on and on about nothing and concentrate about your occasional whoring trips to Kiev when you can get away from the wife. If you continue on and on about this you Will crash and burn. If it will make you feel better we will say the real victims of prostitution are the girls and Fido Dido.

Happy?

[Fido Dido]

Well I've met a few more working girls than you
. . .
Selling one's body is not your average impersonal commercial transaction. Girls who can handle it are rare. It leaves a mark. You may not notice it every time, you may not notice it right away, not every girl will show it, but I've seen it many times. It's heartwrenching.

One O Nine. OK, you met a few more working girls then me. But that is for the Ukrain.
This discussion is more general then only the Ukrain.

By the way: how did you meet all these working girls? Was it in your role as worker for the Salvation Army when you were trying to rescue them?
Or were you "buying their bodies and thus leaving marks upon them"? And now your christian moral makes you feel guilty?

Prostitution is not sympatic. Prostitution is selling sex for money.
Most women I met want something back in return for sex. If it is not money then it is a relationship they want in return. A relationship that might vary from sponsorship to marriage.
I have no intention of starting whatever relationship. I also have no intention of lying neither, pretending to have a realationship and then dropping out. So for me prostitution is a good and honest solution.

Like I wrote: prostitution is not sympatic. Not symaptic for both parties.
Nevertheless, want prostitution to be as pleasant and beneficial for both parties as possible.
There is no joy in abusing a woman who is forced into prostitution for whatever reason.
But there is also no joy in being cheated by a prostitute who wants to have a maximum of money in return for a minimum of performance.

I am very suprised a discussion like this is going on at this forum.
Thought this forum was about prostitution and not about womens lib.
I am also pretty suprised the direction this discussion is heading towards.
Reminds me of the Oprah Winfrey Show.
Anyway, to me the reason is getting more and more clear why in western culture (were guys have a mentality like "One o Nine") even unfounded aquisations of sexual harresment can have far going consequences for men!

[Bez Bezarra]

Selling one's body is not your average impersonal commercial transaction. It's heartwrenching.

Its also one sure fire way a women with zero skills and zero chance of making more than the minimum amount of money in a low level job can support herself and her family.

Having met the majority of prostitutes who just got started working, I can say that in the beginning, its more about helping their families than buying fancy clothes.

[LifeSavour]

perhaps a reminder that we are not alone in this, and what we say, do, even think may come around to ‘bite’ us!

i was in club 44 having drinks with a very nice professional (as in career) 31 year old. it was our 2nd date. my mobile rings and i tell her its my friend rick (names changed to protect the innocent & guilty) i answer but ‘blow’ him off quickly to get back to better things! especially these nicely enhanced ‘water juggs’.

lili (name changed to protect the innocent) immediately says "i know rick, he’s american and has written me." of course, rick writes everyone i say. "he’s a sicko "wanted me to peeee on him!" replies lili.

oh no, not rick! i remark. she then insists its rick and describes his hometown and distinctive photos.

hmmm, i begin to smile & laugh to myself, its rick alright, rick2 – another guy i ‘mildly’ know – but yet have very intimate knowledge of!

yeah lili, your right he does like that! so will you oblige him?

she replied, ‘hexx no!

man, i laughed almost all night thinking just how much ‘stuff’ gets around in this town and how embarrassed rick2 would be if he happened to show up about then. i think we get somewhat ‘immune’ to this internet beast and think it is ‘static’ and not actually a living, breathing monster that can and will come around and ‘bite ya’ !!

ls guy

[One O Nine]

Lot of stories recently about how horribe life can be for a pro from Cruiser D and Doctor Shank. With all due respect, please could you answer the following questions?

Oh boy, gladly! Thought you'd never ask!

Situation: a guy pays $US 300 for a "River Palace" girl.
Question: is the girl a victim? or is the guy just stupid?

Depends on a girl, and depends on a guy. If the girl can handle the mental aspects of selling her body, and the guy treats her like a human being, and is not repulsive (or in rare cases like me happens to be breathtakingly gorgeous), then you bet the girl's not a victim. However if the guy is, like majority of her clients, an overweight slobbering middle-aged gentleman, and when he mounts her with all of his 300 lbs and she gets a face-full of hairy flabby sweaty manboob, you'd better hope the girl has the mental capacity to laugh it off and erase it from memory quickly.

Situation: a US-guy gets a divorce. Has to give up half of his possesions. Has to pay allimony and is only sparsesum allowed to see his children.
Question: Who is the victim? The girl or the guy?

Oh woe is us, poor men of the 21st century. Where hath the good times gone, when women knew their place, stayed in the back of the house, cooked, cleaned, and spoke only when spoken to? How dare they think that they are entitled to anything at all when leaving us - moreover, how dare they even consider the possibility! Why can't they just feel deliriously happy that a man invites them into his household, and count their blessings till their final breath that some man out there decides to marry them.

In a divorce, everyone is a victim, to a certain degree. However in cases when the husband was an irrational mysoginistic dimwit, the wife is certainly better for it, and the more she can get out of him, the better, I say.

Situation: I have met only few working girls in the Ukrain. In Kiev I did met Yana from GIA. I think she is a nymphomatic. Nothing bad with that. To me she is a nice girl. I pay her good money. I do like her. She is not stupid. Studying law. Tells me she passes all exams with good degrees. She likes luxuary. Showed me the nice and expensive clothes she is wearing. Dolce & Gabbana, Versace, Prada. She is nice and sweet. But she also is business like. No minute for nothing!
Question: you want me to feel guilty?
Answer: sorry don't feel so!

Well I've met a few more working girls than you. I've seen quite a few cases of a girl who just couldn't take it mentally, and as I'd see her again and again over the course of several months or sometimes years, I'd see them deteriorate from vibrant young women to absolute wrecks, hollow shells, with no more dreams or desires or thoughts. Their clientelle are collectively responsible. She sees the nice guys she enjoyed being with and felt a connection suddenly ignore her, pretend she doesn't exist, and go with other girls; she sleeps with men who treat her like a sub-human; she'll have an occasional creep who'll rob her or rough her up; and after a while she'll develop a very skewed worldview where she'll think of herself as disposable and worthless, and of men as hearless decieving animals.

Selling one's body is not your average impersonal commercial transaction. Girls who can handle it are rare. It leaves a mark. You may not notice it every time, you may not notice it right away, not every girl will show it, but I've seen it many times. It's heartwrenching.

[Fido Dido]

Who was looking to moralize this? I
. . .
I could go on and on about this but I'm guessing at least 70% of the people reading this forum want to ignore the ugly truth.

Lot of stories recently about how horribe life can be for a pro from Cruiser D and Doctor Shank. With all due respect, please could you answer the following questions?

Situation: a guy pays $US 300 for a "River Palace" girl.
Question: is the girl a victim? or is the guy just stupid?

Situation: a US-guy gets a divorce. Has to give up half of his possesions. Has to pay allimony and is only sparsesum allowed to see his children.
Question: Who is the victim? The girl or the guy?

Situation: I have met only few working girls in the Ukrain. In Kiev I did met Yana from GIA. I think she is a nymphomatic. Nothing bad with that. To me she is a nice girl. I pay her good money. I do like her. She is not stupid. Studying law. Tells me she passes all exams with good degrees. She likes luxuary. Showed me the nice and expensive clothes she is wearing. Dolce & Gabbana, Versace, Prada. She is nice and sweet. But she also is business like. No minute for nothing!
Question: you want me to feel guilty?
Answer: sorry don't feel so!

[Cruiser D]

Wrong VV.

The girls at RP are doing mostly CBJ's now too.

Prostitution - Morals. I promise, this will be my last words on the subject (for a while) You guys either have no clue as to what is really going on or you really don't want to. Whatever it takes to help you sleep at night next to your wife...

[Uke Boy]

Cruiser,

I do not want to turn this into a real estate thread for Hedonist and others moving to Kiev, therefore I will be brief.

With modern luxury housing now going up like mushrooms most everywhere, finding quality and comfort are no longer the issues they once were. It is now just a matter of price. For older building with the so-called "Euro-remont" one bedrooms in the center expect to pay anywhere from $1500 and up, new buildings and apartments are $2000 and up. Prices are going up every day, it seems.

You won't find anything decent in the city for less unless you are local with connections. Unrenovated studios are going for $500-$750 and more depending on location.

As for location, Pechersk and Lypky are the two best in my opinion. Close enough to Khreshchatik and even River Palace but far enough away from them if you want to have a normal life as well. Podil is fine, slightly less costly and it has its own charms. Forget about the Left Bank area, just a bedroom community with nothing to do there except Hydropark in the summer.

Otherwise, if you take a map of Kiev, stick a pin on the center of Khreshchatik and draw a semicircle away from the river and a distance all around of no more than 3 miles/5 kilometers, then just about anything in that semicircle should meet all your needs.