Kyiv

[Cruiser D]

1) No

2) No

3) No - Yes

If you give me $50 Hecker I'll tell you all the things you are doing wrong.

But you are right, the p4p girls are much less umm, desperate then they used to be. Sure wages are increasing but cost are far out pacing the increase. There is simply more demand for the girls, so the prices go up.

Here is a simple tip for you for free; meet the girls at a place close to your apartment.


And hey Mr. Editor, want to back away from that report of distinction button? I think it goes off every time you sneeze.

1. During the day there is no pick-up action.

2. During the night certain expenses are needed.

3. Good girls who one may meet in afternoon, evening are not very sexual and they seek real relationship not just one night stand.


EDITOR'S NOTE: I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here for more information.

[Doctor_Skank]

Any disco on a Thursday, Friday and Saturday night will give you plenty of choices. More upscale, more expensive clubs like Pa Ti Pa and Decadence will have better quality girls, but they'll also be more demanding. Cheaper discos will have some rabble, but the girls will also be more eager. Many of the girls in the cheaper clubs can't even afford to get into the likes of Decadence, so they're likely to be more impressed with you and your money, and be more interested in sleeping with you quickly.

Your chances of taking a drunken hottie home from an uppity club like Pa Ti Pa are significantly smaller than from some mid-range club like Caribbean. Your chances of meeting a row of stunners at a club like Caribbean are significantly smaller than at a club like Pa Ti Pa. If you want to take a bunch of 8+'s out on dates, and don't mind being jerked around a bit, then go to one of the more expensive clubs. If you want to just get laid a lot, and don't mind setting your standards lower, then go to the cheaper clubs. I guess I'm not even sure why I'm writing this, since this is pretty much common sense.

The best plan is to get to Kiev on a Thursday afternoon, hit up the clubs the next three nights, and collect enough phone numbers to last you all of next week.

Live and learn from 109. Simple truth.

[Hecker]

Three years ago the wages in Kiev were 150$ and in Ukraine 87$ per month.
Now average wages stand for 215$ per month for whole Ukraine and 350$ for Kiev.This means that now it is three times more difficult to get the same girl,somebody should make three times more effort and end with a girl less attractive than three years ago since now girls make more money(this makes them more demanding) and there are more ukrainians with enough incomes who can afford them.

Furthermore prices are now 40% higher than three years ago since there has been steady inflation of 10% on average in the last three years.However inflation regarding things having to do with dating(taxis,food in restaurants) has been higher and as a result somebody needs to spend double than in the past to get a girl that as I wrote before is likely to be of lower range in the same amount of time,let us say if for example in the past one got laid every three days with a 7-8,now because only of economic reasons he will be laid with a 5-6 every three days spending double money than before and spending much more on dates without result.

Rise of wages had the positive result that most beautiful girls are gathered in Kiev,raising the percentage of hotties.

On the other hand the inflation led some students being engaged in sponsoring in order to be able to pay the rent.

These two are beneficial effects for the mongers and tend to balance in some proportion the negatives,that is now some very top,stunning beauties are available who just were not there in the past but they can only be hooked by people with big budgets.

[Hecker]

Picking up in the streets during the day is rather difficult,almost impossible.All action takes place in the night in discos.

Internet is good option for dates arranged for afternoon.

I think in cheaper discos there are also good quality girls but in the expensive ones(Decadence etc) the density of beauties is higher,that is every girl is stunning.(I think they do not allow girls with average looks enter).

[One O Nine]

Thank you for all your comments about the cost of living in Kiev but where you find the girls to take out?

Any disco on a Thursday, Friday and Saturday night will give you plenty of choices. More upscale, more expensive clubs like Pa Ti Pa and Decadence will have better quality girls, but they'll also be more demanding. Cheaper discos will have some rabble, but the girls will also be more eager. Many of the girls in the cheaper clubs can't even afford to get into the likes of Decadence, so they're likely to be more impressed with you and your money, and be more interested in sleeping with you quickly.

Your chances of taking a drunken hottie home from an uppity club like Pa Ti Pa are significantly smaller than from some mid-range club like Caribbean. Your chances of meeting a row of stunners at a club like Caribbean are significantly smaller than at a club like Pa Ti Pa. If you want to take a bunch of 8+'s out on dates, and don't mind being jerked around a bit, then go to one of the more expensive clubs. If you want to just get laid a lot, and don't mind setting your standards lower, then go to the cheaper clubs. I guess I'm not even sure why I'm writing this, since this is pretty much common sense.

The best plan is to get to Kiev on a Thursday afternoon, hit up the clubs the next three nights, and collect enough phone numbers to last you all of next week.

[Hecker]

Maybe somebody who lives in Kiev has the choice to reject a girl asking for a present. However things are more difficult for the traveller who is short of time and with limited future alternatives. The girl can set him under great pressure and he is more willing to pay a cost to get her soon.

Picking up girls in public places like Kreshatik or metro is almost impossible. The rejection is instant. The girls seldom reply and usually tend to avoid somebody trying to speak to them. Situation is a little better in cities in province.

Internet is good but girls who use internet for dating are usually loners, shy and reserved. This does not mean they are not willing, they just act strrange in some cases.

Girls who visit clubs often are the worst. These are the ones asking for presents, ignoring boyfriend provocatively and doing what they have in mind. Owever they are the most easy to approach in Kiev and practically most of acquaintances takes place at night in clubs or bars.

Cafes are not very good since one has to find a free seat next to some beauty and next minute the beauty may go away. Sometimes during the night girls drinking beer sit or walk along big streets and many guys try to pick them. Chances depend on time, luck and mood of girl.

In general it is possible to find a girlfriend in Kiev very soon after one arrives even in two days but he should take into cnsideration that.

1. During the day there is no pick-up action.

2. During the night certain expenses are needed.

3. Good girls who one may meet in afternoon, evening are not very sexual and they seek real relationship not just one night stand.

Something about the expenses.

Three years ago wages in Kiev were 150$ per month. In all Ukraine the average was 87$ per month. Now the average wage is 215$ per month and in Kiev it has reached 350$. This means that the girls now in Kiev are 2-3 times more difficult since they used to be three years ago because they make more money and as a reult they have more demands and now there are more rich and middle income Ukrainians who can afford them.

This means that for the same girl one needs three times more money, that he should search three times more (more dates without resulat) and that he can have three times less girls than before.

If h puts the same effort as three years ago he will get a girl three times worse that is instead of an 8 he will get a 5, maximum a 6 in the same amount of time. All this is for interest for people who visit the city for a short time.

Furthermore since inflation was steadily 10% and over during the last three years he will need to pay 50% more at least to get the same result. In fact somebody pays now more about double than in the past because the inflation of things related with dates suach as taxis, drinks, food in restaurant was greater than 10% every year and most probably prices have doubled since 2003. (For example taxi cost maximum 20 grivnas then if you see reports of that time. Now it costs 30-40 for a short distance and even 50-80 especially for the tourist. For three dates one needs taxi 8 times and this makes a spending of 50-70$ everyday just on taxi a reality).

Foreigners can feel all these things when they come to Kiev and see their money vanishing quickly. An positive for mongers consequence of the inflation is that many students have difficulty paying the rent and so they tend to find a sponsor if their work does not compensate them much. In this case sponsoring is reasonable but can turn to expensive if the girl sees weaknesses in the foreigner. Struggle for everything is common and if alternative solutions are few the girls get the upper hand.

Of course if somebody does not care to spend 600-800$ for a weekend fun, Kiev can turn into a heaven.

EDITOR'S NOTE: I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here for more information.

[Cruiser D]

100 to 250 hrv for a taxi? Inside the city center a taxi (not a private car) will cost you 20 hrv. You can take a taxi anywhere the metro goes for a max of 50 hrv. 80-100 hrv will take you to Bovary or Borispil. I never took a taxi for over 100 hrv so I don't know where 250 hrv will take you. The metro costs what, 50 kopecks?

Gifts? Normal girls do not take gifts for sex. If she needs a gift to get in the mood she is a semi pro or she really doesn't like you all that much.

[Robert1110]

I just have to disagree that "normal" girls require a phone or some other equally expensive gift BEFORE sex.

I think this is very misleading and dangerous "information". It only perpetuates the false understanding that "normal" girls require expensive gifts before sex. You are being taken advantage of, to put it mildly and, you are misleading others.

This actually reveals why these women date you. It is for your money and your apparent willingness to part with it so easily.

[Robert1110]

2. If a girl drinks in club you will have to pay about 50$ every 2 hours for your and har drinks and maybe the drinks of her girlfriends and this does not always garantee a lay with her or them later. In fact if you meet a girl in an average popular club and beginn to spend on her drinks it is likely she will date you next days but in order to become her lover she will ask for a present usually a mobile phone or something worth about 200-300$. You are supposed to pay for this, it is considered normal to buy a gift for her before. I am talking about normal girls, freebees not about pros.

This is a good topic. I'd like to discuss the gift "before". I do not like this. It does not gaurantee sex. The lady can disappear with a phone or a pair of boots. When they ask for anything other than the cost of my meeting with them, I tell them not until they are my girlfriend. If they walk, they were not going to put out anyway, IMHO.

Any comments? We want sex, they want money (in one form or another) who decided they get what they want first without any promise of getting laid?

I live here and routinely have ladies that range from will not accept a taxi home after sex, if the metro is running, to 100-250grivna. Anything above that and we're getting into the pro's. I have to include that I do not do the clubs and bars. It is mostly online or meeting on the streets, not k street.

I have a car and pick up girls with their hand out for a ride. Of course never ask for anything more than a phone number.

I did not see the "quote" feature until after this was posted (new here, sorry). The top papragraph should be in quotes.

I will add to this. In my opinion, any man who buys a phone or anything over the cost of a cafe or restuarant meeting is, well, a fool.

Do you think these ukrainian men are buying anything over $50 for a lady they are not having sex with? Do you do this back in the USA? The women do this because many american men who come here are stupid enough to actually think this (buying a phone or some other expensive gift) BEFORE sex is a requirement. I bet this man, if he has bought these gifts, is not telling us about the women he bought gifts for and did not get laid. In fact, I think it is misleading and dangerous for someone to come here and post as if it were a fact that we are to buy expensive presents for these ladies before sex. These women do this because so many american men are foolish enough to do this.

But, of course, as we all know, there is a sucker born every minute.

It is a pity these suckers then act as if they are some sort of authority (on something other than being a sucker).

I ought to have one of my girlfriends date this guy. I need a new phone.

[Robert1110]

2. If a girl drinks in club you will have to pay about 50$ every 2 hours for your and har drinks and maybe the drinks of her girlfriends and this does not always garantee a lay with her or them later. In fact if you meet a girl in an average popular club and beginn to spend on her drinks it is likely she will date you next days but in order to become her lover she will ask for a present usually a mobile phone or something worth about 200-300$. You are supposed to pay for this, it is considered normal to buy a gift for her before. I am talking about normal girls, freebees not about pros.

This is a good topic. I'd like to discuss the gift "before". I do not like this. It does not gaurantee sex. The lady can disappear with a phone or a pair of boots. When they ask for anything other than the cost of my meeting with them, I tell them not until they are my girlfriend. If they walk, they were not going to put out anyway, IMHO.

Any comments? We want sex, they want money (in one form or another) who decided they get what they want first without any promise of getting laid?

I live here and routinely have ladies that range from will not accept a taxi home after sex, if the metro is running, to 100-250grivna. Anything above that and we're getting into the pro's. I have to include that I do not do the clubs and bars. It is mostly online or meeting on the streets, not k street.

I have a car and pick up girls with their hand out for a ride. Of course never ask for anything more than a phone number.

[Toptraveler1]

Thank you for all your comments about the cost of living in Kiev but where you find the girls to take out?

[Hecker]

Dr. Skank's observations are on the point. Sometimes it is enough to visit just a cafe with a girl. Of course these are the nice girls who do not hang around in clubs, discos etc. Dr. Skank seems very experienced and has certain ways to reduce the costs. I tried to figure out the situation for somebody who comes for first time and has limited experience.

I am impressed by Dr. Skank's knowledge of Slavic soul and his insightful remarks in all of his posts. Not only does he know exactly what is going on but he can make things work.

In order to impress a girl, I would visit a restaurant with her. Food and restaurants in Kiev are of average quality but they charge the same as west european ones. However the girls appreciate this more than their european counterparts. There are also very nice girls who do not want you to spend much on them and make every effort to reduce costs of you, are grateful to you for every little expense you make for them, they are diamonds of slavic soul. These girls know the value of money and try to protect you against anyone overcharging. The problem is that the usual tourist is not attracted or does not meet these good girls and instead he gets involved with girls in clubs etc who most of the time need a sponsor for their drinks and high-life. They do not hesitate to present him their girlfriends and propose to him a threesome relationship. However this means double expenses for him and better control for them. The time he is not with them they do not care what he is doing. They find it natural if he has other girlfriends since attraction by girls is regarded normal. Harem in these countries is something inevitable since there are many eager girls and few guys with money who can afford them. So she thinks since he is going to have more girlfriends why not introduce him to my girlfriend as to make her a favour and keep more control over him. This is a simple form of the dynamics but Dr. Skank has a deeper knowledge of the situation and can handle it more efficiently. In fact many times in Kiev I lost control which I usually kept in other places. Drinking last quantities with beauties in every place has surely to do with that.

I will describe an experience I had three years ago when I first came to kiev and stayed one week to show how was the situation then and how much it has changed. The second day walking in Kreshatik in midnight two beautiful girls (one blond, 174, slim, green eyes, typical slavic face, one brunette) stopped me and told me. Please could you give us 10 grivna? I could not believe such beauties were asking for money. I told them, what for? They told me, we want to go to the disco and we have no money for the taxi. I told them, O, K, why not going to disco with me? They answerd you may come with us. So we took a taxi and they asked the driver to go to disco Savak (dog). I thought it was a funny name for a disco. When we arrived in a dark area the girls asked for cigarettes and I bought them one packet. Then we entered the disco. What I saw is difficult to describe. Although it was Wednesday night there were people mostly girls dancing. Disco was dark, music strange, girls asked for a shampane, took my by hand and sat with me. With two slavic beauties and some hot girls around the spirit was good. The shampaigne cost 40 grivnas and the girls were grateful, they were in heaven. Then one of them introduced me to another girl who was dancing in the club, not very beautiful, a brunette with devastated face. The brunette asked me to dance with her. In the same time I noticed one girl in another company starting kissing deep tongue her girlfriend. Then she moved to the next girl and did the same. Then she kissed one more girl and she came to me. In front of the other girls she kissed me with tongue. It was a sensual experience. Next minute I saw an Ukrainian guy having a girl lying in front of him on the dance floor calling me to join him toughing her. I started dancing with the brunette that the girls I entered with introduced to me. Soon the lesbian who had kissed came to us and the brunette put her hand under her blouse and started playing with her tits. The lesbian had an expression of full satisfaction. I could not believe what was happening, how natural everything seemed to these people. After the dance I sat again with the two girls I came with. Then the brunette came to me and told me if I gave her 50$ she would sleep with me in the night. I told her I would like to stay a bit more. This because I had noticed a tall beauty, about 180cm dancing feverishely. She belonged to the company of the lesbian. I sat next to her, she told me she was a model. After a while we started dancing, she danced amazingly and after some minutes hot french kissing began. After dance we sat next to each other. Then the girls I came with decided to go home. I said them good-bye gave to them 10 grivna for the taxi and then kissed one of them in the mouth. They gave me their phone numbers and looked at me in the eyes. When I moved back I sat next to the model and started kissing her again. The brunette who made the proposition of 50$ told me she could not wait anymore we should go to hotel. I told her I needed to stay a bit more. Then she went into arguing with the model. The model told me to fix the situationI gave the brunette 20 grivnas for taxi to go home and she was happy, she told me you are a genleman. Then I got back to the model again who introduced me to another blond beauty friend of hers. I was between two hot girls having the one in my lap. Sensations were sharp but when I proposed her to come to hotel she refused and told me maybe tomorrow. We took a taxi with her friends which brought me to the hotel, she gave me her number and I went for some sleep deeply impressed by the unexpected night experience.

EDITOR'S NOTE: I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here for more information.

[Street Sleuth]

My prior post was tongue in cheek (though I assure you the phenomenon is indeed real!).

However, in all seriousness, we can debate prices in Ukraine, and different lifestyles/strategies yield different living costs but, lets be clear, for the sake of the uninformed (those who haven't yet been to EE), Ukraine, and EE in general, is NOT for those on tight budgets.

[Street Sleuth]

"I think your estimates are too high. You don't need to spend $50 on a date if you don't want to. Go to a cafe instead of a restaurant. Ukrainian girls don't eat much anyway."

Its a puzzle I have yet to solve. Why is that when I go out alone to a restaurant in Ukraine, the bill typically racks up to around $15, but when I go with a girl (that weighs on average 50 pounds less than me), the bill typically racks up to around $60?!

[Doctor_Skank]

I totally agree with dr.Skunk estimations.In order to get freebees in Kiev one needs minimum 250$ everyday,that is 100$ for staying and his expenses during the day and 50$ for every girl he laids.In order to get laid sb needs three dates with the same girl and successful dates are 1 in every 5,that is he has to spend at least 300$ on other girls before he gets laid with one.

All these come from observations.

Three years ago it was the same but the dates cost much less,one third maybe than now.So the loss was not so high.

One should also count that he will be overcharged on everything from taxi to drinks in club,so he will spend another 150$ on overcharging just to get laid.

I think your estimates are too high. You don't need to spend $50 on a date if you don't want to. Go to a cafe instead of a restaurant. Ukrainian girls don't eat much anyway.

Overcharging? Foreigners are charged exactly the same for everything as the locals in clubs and restaurants. The only difference might be taxis and pro sex, but that's up to you and your ability and willingness to negotiate. I personally don't haggle over 5 grivni ($1) with a taxi driver and don't lose sleep over $20 with a pro. The main factor in overcharging is language. Its like a surcharge for ease... if you can't speak the local lingo, you have to accept what's available to foreigners, and the locals will try to overcharge for sex and some services. But restaurants and bars? Foreigners pay exactly the same as everybody else. If you are getting ripped off there you are doing something seriously wrong.

2-3 dates is normal for getting laid... but dates don't have to cost much. The ONLY thing that matters is getting them back to your apartment... how you do that is up to you, but you really don't need to go to dinner 2 or 3 times. You'll just get fat and bloated doing that all week. Cafes and walks in the park do just fine too...

The last freebie I banged in Kiev. Total damage: 2 dates and about $30... the majority of which were my mojitos and black russians.

My estimates of $100 a day running cost (not incl. apartment) are based mostly on my own expenses... the majority of which are drinks in clubs for me. That's just a personal choice... nobody is forcing me to drink and rarely do I have to buy girls drinks... most don't drink much anyway.

Whenever out on the prowl you are going to have operating costs. If they are too high for you, seek other ways to entertain yourself. I find creating a fun atmosphere is the most important thing when dating and picking up girls. Realistically though, the costs are not going to be incurred inherently by the girls. They are low-maintenance. Creating atmosphere is what costs a bit... but why go to the club and not spend money? Drinking and partying at the club is fun... but if its too expensive for you, arrange dates on the net or meet girls on the street and meet them somewhere less cost-intensive.

Mongering is an expensive hobby.. it involves flights, entertainment, paying for pros and hotels/apartments.... but if you are own a tight budget, there are ways to avoid excess costs.