Kyiv

[PhotoSlider]

How did I find all these 39+2 girls, one might ask? The very same shotgun approach, as explained in prior posts, and used by others.

I rely on established regular girls and grind through hourly call girls from agency consolidators casting a net, and sifting through. Mamba is just as good, I didn't get a chance to explore it.

I usually get phone numbers from 25-30% of hourly call girls, and transform into an LT regular no more than 5%. That means out 39 I kept 2. And it is precisely that - 2 new girls after my last visit.

Visiting only for 2-3-7 days means you will have much shorter data set, and more deviation from the average. Forum members witnessed my struggles one of the Friday nights when I had tickets to theater and literally nobody to go with. I ended up selling those tickets at the cost, having a failed threesome at midnight that transitioned into a passionate mating with one of those ladies, then having her again two days later and ditching for good because of too much drama and hustling. The road in Kiev is not always paved with roses.

Miracles do happen, and if you are lucky, you may find your jewel. We repeatedly saw Forum reports to that effect.

Longer visit and ability to discard bad ones easily, quickly recover and proceed, means you can establish a wider circle of more reliable young ladies.

I exchange contacts within Forum only after meeting in person in Kiev, and with those members that I already know. So please do not waste your time asking. You know my approach, perhaps you can execute the same.

[PhotoSlider]

Recollecting recent visit to Kiev, I tried to analyze it statistically, and here is what has been found:

5 weeks visit.

4 girls are my LT (long term) partners. Meaning I can always count on quality of their service, and they are happy to meet for reasonable compensation. All four I consider beautiful, especially judging by the quality of their service. One is model level in everything, yet she is also honest, sincere, good mannered young lady.

Separate slightly overlapping subset includes 8 girls. They are beautiful in the commonly accepted sense. To me they are strikingly beautiful, judging by both. Appearance and their exceptional personality.

Out of these 8 beauties only 2 are my LT partners. The other 2 LT partners are far from being ugly, and are chosen based on performance and behavior out of bed, manners and personality. LT to me means I can be with them 3 days and nights straight.

A 17 girls subset includes ladies that are either beautiful physically, are great performers, or both. 12 of these 17 are 8's or higher, 3 are 10's. Only 3 girls performed at level 7, 8 and 9 respectively. The rest to my taste were through the roof. Both 4 LT partners and 8 beauties above are included in this subset of 17, and 5 more girls added due to exceptional performance and personality. 3 girls I rated 6 by face, but one of them had great body and 21 (yes 21) performance. 1 girl was rated 7 mostly by face, had great body, and performed so great that I extended her for another hour within the first 15 minutes. She was the one I kicked out in the last October, and this time she courageously proved she is top notch in bed.

2 girls were kicked out for misbehaving. 1 girl stormed out in the middle of threesome (I didn't request anything outrageous, but she felt uncomfortable from the very start).

8 girls, including the latter 3 were poor choice one way or another: unacceptable attitude, MILFs with sagging breasts, overweight, bad teeth or skin defects. Not that many.

Many more girls were rejected during curbside casting in the taxi, as I usually had 2 girls delivered and picked only one. Do not take those into account.

In 5 weeks I had 39 different girls. Challenged by my Kiev friend, but definitely not trying to achieve any records. Half of those girls were definitely fuckable, especially after artificial celibacy in the West. That half was good one way or the other. Sufficiently hot looks, passionate, or both.

In my opinion the above provides representative set for statistical analysis.

There were also ladies that I refused to copulate with, or ladies that I met more than once and incurred certain expenses, but didn't engage sexually on some of those occasions due to logistical constraints on my side. The usual bandwidth availability and over subscription challenges of Kiev.

My rough estimates makes it about 75 acts of consummation with the above 39 ladies. 2 more I didn't touch on purposes, making it 41 that collected my money in some way.

Ranging from 30 minutes (to imminent kick out) to a few days in a single visit it averages out to 10 hours per single girl. Obviously a meaningless metric.

Similarly my hourly pay was 400 UAH on average, where hourly girls were between 1400 and 2100, and LT ladies were at the rate of 2-5 K UAH per 24 hours stay. Interestingly enough one single fuck across 5 weeks did cost me about 2000 UAH, because with LT partners it was no more than 2-3 times in 24 hours, as I am not that young.

There was one more LT candidate, gorgeous lady and great all around, charging only $150 an hour regardless of the length of stay, and allowing all I want plus more, but she travels a lot, and for the last two weeks 2 of LT ladies monopolized my apartment in an alternating pattern almost exclusively.

Conclusions:

4 or 5% of 39 girls are LT. All 4 are from prior visits to Kiev. Due to time constraints no new ones established.

2 more girls (39+2) were LT partners, I met and retired them for too much drama. 10 more LT and ST girls from the past I retired without meeting them.

8 or 20% of girls were beautiful.

17 or almost 50% were beauties and good in bed or cute enough and great performers.

3 were rather terrible.

8 (including 3 above) or 20% were bad. 5 of them or 13% I still had. No comment on my reasons behind it.

50% of girls were doable in a very much enjoyable manner.

In general the above set represents my typical visit for the last two years. No outliers, no regrets. Not too homogeneous, enough dispersion / diversity to entertain to highest extent.

What would I do differently? Perhaps exclude some hopeless drama actresses from the very beginning. I am an OK judge of character, and with some of them intuition told me not to engage, yet I did. Probably mostly for vanity sake and out of research curiosity. Kiev girls are also great with selling the promise of immense happiness around the corner.

I would also stay more frequently or longer with 4 of my LT partners, but one of them had college finals away from Kiev. I also like variety. No regrets in that respect, as variety means trial and error. Even some of the known in the past change, wear out, and become less analogue (sincerely passionate), more digital (fake, going through the motions).

Hope this is useful, or at least entertaining.

[PhotoSlider]

I never used Gia or KEC (Kiev Escort Club) myself, but it is clear they are the same because some articles/testimonials at their recruiting agency (https://www.aemal.org/) still use Gia, though most were updated to use KEC. Those articles/testimonials are very much worth reading, BTW, for insight into the mind of the very talented original mamasan/owner. I suspect she long ago made her fortune and decided to finally call it quits after the police bust last year. Whoever replaced her probably lacks her long-term vision and just wants to milk the business for as much as possible as fast as possible.

I used ex-GIA model last time in mid-June 2019. And ordered from GIA directly in November 2017.

Good HR link, never knew it existed. I suspect I know who performs casting.

Anyway, I might have presented somewhat distorted reality. My apologies, and as always, thanks to Kozerog for providing a clear no-BS explanation.

KEC is GIA that has been transformed in May-July of 2018 after widely publicized police bust. In that respect KEC is the same. KEC business policy though is near-sighted, and targets short term visitors. Perhaps they make, or expected to make more money that way, difficult to figure out.

Seems there's a niche for KEC. Girls like Oksana, Masha, Marta have been with KEC and GIA for many years now. Oksana is a classic example of KEC lying, because she is positioned as 21 years old, and she was 21 in September 2016 at GIA. KEC management would say that girls conceal their age for privacy reasons, but that's BS, because KEC has copies of their passports. Lie is a lie.

"Verified" Pictures where girls hold a piece of paper with a recent date handwritten is a KEC innovation. Doubtful value really.

GIA has been around for many years, but recent offerings proliferation through Viber, WhatsApp, Telegram and IG made a dent in GIA / KEC profits. Now KEC tries to squeeze more. Requirement to work 5 days a week seems new, in the past GIA ladies reported in the morning if they were willing to work (needed money) today. That's what one of good GIA girls back in 2016 explained to me: "When I need money, I just call". She used her money making pussy as an ATM, and felt great about it.

I can recall maybe one or two Forum reports in the last year of someone using KEC services. We used to have many. Last good ones were in 2018 prior to bust.

[Kozerog]

Maybe you have better sources, Stefan, but it seems that a year ago KEC has displaced GIA management. Protection and ownership could be the same.

I never used Gia or KEC (Kiev Escort Club) myself, but it is clear they are the same because some articles/testimonials at their recruiting agency (https://www.aemal.org/) still use Gia, though most were updated to use KEC. Those articles/testimonials are very much worth reading, BTW, for insight into the mind of the very talented original mamasan/owner. I suspect she long ago made her fortune and decided to finally call it quits after the police bust last year. Whoever replaced her probably lacks her long-term vision and just wants to milk the business for as much as possible as fast as possible.

[PhotoSlider]

And myself will fly there tomorrow. Yeeeah.

And something tells me you will not be suffering either.

Please report on your achievements.

[Michi T]

There are 2 gentlemen visiting Kiev right now, ..

And myself will fly there tomorrow. Yeeeah))).

[VivalDim]

Hi guys,

I was in Kiev last week and had good fuck with mamba girls and 2 from apartments. I'm already thinking of my next trip, do clubs in Kiev worth the visit? Any good addresses?

[PhotoSlider]

KEC is gia.

SSDD. Same Shit, Different Day. But devil is in the detail.

IMHO customer service was noticeably better at GIA. Placing the order is a challenge today. Not so trustworthy feedback on KEC website from fake customers, positioned as real, but frequently written by KEC management. Description of options again and again not matching what actually happens with the girl. Prices went up significantly. There is no option for using KEC apartment.

Maybe you have better sources, Stefan, but it seems that a year ago KEC has displaced GIA management. Protection and ownership could be the same.

I believe GIA was better, especially 3 years ago in 2016, than KEC is now in 2019.

[Stefan 7]

AFAIK GIA doesn't exists anymore, and KEC is not nearly as attractive.

KEC is gia.

[PhotoSlider]

...by my estimates less than 50% of visitors to Kiev leave satisfied. And of those less than 10% leave reports. Therefore 1 out 20 posts a happy report...

There are 2 gentlemen visiting Kiev right now, and without a doubt both are having a blast there. One of them in the past shared his exclusive sources with me, and I was stunned by his beauties and their manners!

The other gentleman may post a report when he gets back home and recovers from festivities. From what I've seen so far in his private communication to me, the girls are exactly as I promised few months ago: 2-3 no lower than 8 or 9 in the first 2 days or so upon landing.

Correspondingly, both of these gentlemen received few snapshots from the fun I had upon arrival mid May. The metaphor stays the same, - "I thought I had died and went straight to Heaven!

Why did these three including myself succeeded? For many reasons: traveling to Kiev frequently, loving it, working hard on procurement, being realistic and honest, being sufficiently handsome and attractive in manners and appearance, not thinking of Kiev as of the place full of cheaters and scammers, not begging for failure, but not expecting an easy and guaranteed success either.

One out of these 3 will not post any reports, just like many other successful visitors. That is why I am saying 1 out of 20 visitors posts happy reports. It doesn't mean only 1 out of 20 is happy. Happiness is in the eye of beholder. Some guys are happy with take out from Rio, others do not mind KEC, I hear certain clubs provide good degree of success.

I do not think I could crack Prague or Barcelona that easily, but to each his own.

Cheers!

[PhotoSlider]

2 Drama: I never blocked anybody, including you. Nor did I complain to Admins. Likewise, I could do just fine without your seal of approval and proofreading my posts. Forum can judge on its own.

Indeed, it would be great if after 3 years of not visiting Ukraine and Kiev in particular you could find peace and move on from this thread. Newbies in Moscow Forum may need your protection.

Thanks for extending the olive branch, no hard feelings.

[DramaFree11]

Kozerog is a great source, he does a great job about talking about the hardwork, cost and time that is takes to meet for girls in Kiev. Newbies need to read all his reports, before booking a trip to Ukraine.

Also over the last 2 months P.S, reports have improved 1000% he is now talking about both the good and ugly in Kiev. This is all I ask for. We do not have a lot in common and probably will never agree on a Lot, but if he keeps this up, no need for me to post on the Kiev page. I have also learned a few things from him, so that proves you can learn something from everyone. Maybe he can even unblock me.

I will only correct obvious mistakes, exaggerations and lies. I have moved on to better destinations.

[PhotoSlider]

I agree with you. You are right. But you are wrong in one detail. You appeal to people who come from the Western world and call on them to break the rules that exist in their world.

Or one might rephrase that I call on them not to impose their Western world rules on the country and City that they visit.

If they want to play by the rules of their Western world, then German FKK and Thailand are much easier.

This Western world is full of restrictions, prohibitions and convention. Dating in the street in the West is not always good for you to end. This can lead to problems. Even in Poland, dating in the street is dying these days. Many women make a gloomy face. And walk past you. . This is the influence of the West. You say that people take an example from Jymondor. But who is Jymondor? This is a Ukrainian who lives in a rich country. In Canada. This is not a Western person. He knows the language and mentality.

And that is one of many reasons why he is more successful than others.

And who is Steve 69? This is not quite a systematic person for the West. Yes, he is American. But this is not a typical American. Not every American dares to approach a young girl in the center of Kiev. It is not always easy even if you are Ukrainian. Not because that you are afraid of accusations of sexual harassment, but simply because you are afraid that you will get an offensive refusal. Like a male. The woman will tell you. No, no, . And if you are not Ukrainian, but a Swede or German or Canadian? You are brought up in a completely different environment. Where is very bad legislation for men and any stupid girl can create problems and troubles for you. What you offer to these guys is quite rational and this is a good way to search for pussies in Ukraine. Ukrainian girls are not used to shouting about sexual harassment and react to it normally and without problems. Often they just smile and give you a polite refusal. Without hysterics. But this is impossible simply because it is impossible for most western guys.

And that is why by my estimates less than 50% of visitors to Kiev leave satisfied. And of those less than 10% leave reports. Therefore 1 out 20 posts a happy report.

Even for a Ukrainian guy it's not so easy to turn to a beautiful young girl on the street. Otherwise, the escort Gia agency would stop its work. Useless. What do you think, every guy can go to such girls on Kiev street. Like these photos.

AFAIK GIA doesn't exists anymore, and KEC is not nearly as attractive.

Approaching girls in the street is not for faint-hearted. Especially those in Kiev.

I approach hourly call girls after fucking them on my premises. And get their phone numbers. Not always, but sufficiently enough. That is easier. But I cannot resist myself, and also keep hunting wherever I am.

BTW, girls on your photos look great!

[PhotoSlider]

Older generation in central and eastern Ukraine spoke Russian as first and often only language, so many young people still have to learn Russian to talk to their parents and grandparents, regardless of what language they use in school.

Good analysis. Agree with 99% of your statements. Some comments for the sake of discussion.

Younger generation is more likely to understand rudimentary Russian, and use parents as the communication link with grandparents. This is the same as second generation immigrants, - those born in England or US, and speaking, writing and reading in English. They also understand those very 500 words in the language of their parents, but read with great difficulty, and cannot write. That younger second generation of immigrants speaks English back to their parents, even if parents insist on preserving their native language. Children understand the subset, parents may not speak English that great, but both manage while bridging two cultures.

I didn't hear college students frequently using Ukrainian in ordinary conversation even 2-3 years ago. Now it's everywhere. They still speak and really well understand Russian, and do not mind switching to Russian altogether if they realize it is easier for me. Residents of Kiev go as far as suggesting me to switch to Russian, when they hear how badly I struggle trying to speak Ukrainian. The latter happens even if their first language is Ukrainian (Lviv, Vinnitsa, Chernovtsy).

Whereas with Lithuania, etc, older generation spoke Lithuanian, etc as first language.

Ukraine is indeed unique in that respect. Russian became dominant. Perhaps only Kazakhstan is similar, where title nation used to be a minority. Even Latvia is transitioning.

Also, Lithuania, etc can afford to replace Russian with English because Russia is and will continue to be a minor trading partner compared to the EU (or China in case of Mongolia). Whereas Russia will resume its economic importance to Ukraine as soon as the war is over

One scenario to end the war would be Russia taking over most of Ukraine. Hopefully not. There will be too much bloodshed on both sides. My expectation is an equivalent of Gaza Strip for decades. Is Israel in the state of war?

and everyone knows that, which is why those Ukrainian parents you mentioned want their children to master both Ukrainian and Russian.

They teach because more people worldwide speak Russian than Ukrainian. On post-soviet territory Russian is lingua franca. Even Lithuanian business partners visiting Kiev speak Russian, not English.

Those parents also took into account English classes quality as the primary criteria for choosing school.

Bottom line is that most young Ukrainians (especially central and eastern Ukraine) will be able speak / understand intermediate Russian for decades to come.

Agree, except those that came from part of Eastern Ukraine annexed by Russia are frequently traumatized, and for LT I eventually chose to avoid them. Young girls from Western Ukraine are pure and innocent.

Though when speaking, they may increasingly mix with Ukrainian. So I see no reason to learn Ukrainian rather than Russian, for someone planning to only visit Kyiv. I do see reasons to learn maybe 500 most common Ukrainian words that are different in Ukrainian and Russian. Adding those 500 words should allow reading Ukrainian, for those who can already read Russian.

Totally agree with that statement. 500 is a good vocabulary in any language. Make sure you make it 500 phrases, not words. And preferably phrases related to romantic situations. Might as well call it mongering.

Or forget Ukrainian. You will be fine with Russian only for few short visits.

[Michi T]

I agree with you. You are right. But you are wrong in one detail. You appeal to people who come from the Western world and call on them to break the rules that exist in their world. This Western world is full of restrictions, prohibitions and convention. Dating in the street in the West is not always good for you to end. This can lead to problems. Even in Poland, dating in the street is dying these days. Many women make a gloomy face. And walk past you. . This is the influence of the West. You say that people take an example from Jymondor. But who is Jymondor? This is a Ukrainian who lives in a rich country. In Canada. This is not a Western person. He knows the language and mentality. And who is Steve 69? This is not quite a systematic person for the West. Yes, he is American. But this is not a typical American. Not every American dares to approach a young girl in the center of Kiev. It is not always easy even if you are Ukrainian. Not because that you are afraid of accusations of sexual harassment, but simply because you are afraid that you will get an offensive refusal. Like a male. The woman will tell you. No, no, . And if you are not Ukrainian, but a Swede or German or Canadian? You are brought up in a completely different environment. Where is very bad legislation for men and any stupid girl can create problems and troubles for you. What you offer to these guys is quite rational and this is a good way to search for pussies in Ukraine. Ukrainian girls are not used to shouting about sexual harassment and react to it normally and without problems. Often they just smile and give you a polite refusal. Without hysterics. But this is impossible simply because it is impossible for most western guys. Even for a Ukrainian guy it's not so easy to turn to a beautiful young girl on the street. Otherwise, the escort Gia agency would stop its work. Useless. What do you think, every guy can go to such girls on Kiev street. Like these photos.

Yes, to some extent. In my home country, dating on the street and other public places is very difficult. Even in Poland you often get gloomy faces. Well. In Ukraine, still very possible to get girls from public places. I am talking about civilians, not "money for sex" girls.