Kyiv

[PhotoSlider]

I pay typical foreigner prices (about $150 per 4 hour session with my jewel, or $300/ week, plus bonus at my discretion). What I hate is when girls think I'm trying to get sex for free or cheaply in Kyiv.

Your prices are reasonable, not cheap, but very much reasonable for both, consumer and provider, taking into account you do not see your lady every day, and she doesn't stay overnight. Yet I would consider that typical foreigner on average pays considerably higher.

You are unique in many ways. During my last trip I tried to implement some of your principles, and without limiting me, it cut the expenses in half.

[DramaFree11]

I have written on GIA a lot, you can look at some of the past points. It should only be use for 2 things:

1. First is you are in Kiev for business quick trip, definitely works great for that.

2. If you are planning on living in Kiev or staying for long periods of time. As others have said get there phone numbers and negotiate. Not sure that is as easy as they say, but you try. Also you need to remember these girls travel a lot, so you probably need 2 or 3. That is going to take some serous time and big budget.

If you are planning on visiting for 4-7 days and plan on using High End Agencies, it is just a waste of money. You can go to many other destinations and hook up with actual real models for the prices guys are paying in Kiev, now for High End Escorts. Anything above $150, for multiple hours in Kiev, is way too much to be with 6's and that is what 90% of them are, maybe a couple of 7's. 6's are very attainable in Kiev, anything else is very difficult for foreigners.

[Kozerog]

So, the essence of the story: fortified demarcation line and two separate lives, and no overlap.

For those who have wives, families, jobs, etc, I can see the rationale, but since I have none of those reasons for hiding what I do, I'm sorely tempted to be fully open.

Civilian girls in Kyiv are very suspicious and assume the worst anyway. At my social activities, girls frequently ask where I'm from and why I'm in Kyiv. Some roll their eyes upon hearing that I'm a "tourist", other put on a disgusted face, others seem excited and attracted by the idea that I'm "one of those guys".

I'd actually prefer everyone knew for certain that I was a monger, as long as they also knew I pay typical foreigner prices (about $150 per 4 hour session with my jewel, or $300/ week, plus bonus at my discretion). What I hate is when girls think I'm trying to get sex for free or cheaply in Kyiv.

[PhotoSlider]

...A phone number / email can tie you to your real name and if you happen to put your dick in crazy, she will be able to reach out to your friends, your work, or post on your Instagram or wherever...

"Happen to put your dick in crazy." What a wonderful way to explain what happens in Kiev, and not always stays in Kiev!

One day, out of the blue, Kiev friend of mine had a question from one of his mistresses:

- Facebook suggested you to me as a friend!

Well, fortunately she was not a crazy, but she surely had her fun, as he looked totally surprised and lost. But she continued:

- I see you are married. How wonderful! Can you tell me a little bit about your wife? What kind of person is she?

And she had the most mischievous smile on her face. Well, he declined any further conversation on the subject, and she treated him in the most gracious way, as she thought that continuing relationship ultimately was to her benefit. But the moment was rather unpleasant. For him. She enjoyed it to full extent.

I also know a guy, that was fired from his lucrative Microsoft job in Bellevue / Seattle after a crazy contacted his employer.

So, the essence of the story: fortified demarcation line and two separate lives, and no overlap. Like between North and South Korea.

I would never give an escort or Mamba girl my Instagram, but I am pretty popular photographer on Instagram and this has worked well for me on Tinder. Interesting Instagram = interesting foreigner.

I keep two separate Instagram accounts with different pictures. It definitely grabs girls attention, and in my case not as much my pictures. Girls want to be followed, get attention.

On a separate IG related subject. Today had a request for funds from a lovely lady with supposedly a serious sickness. A little later she posted her new pictures, looking great and everything. Now, about 20 hours later she is miraculously cured. Go figure! Must be one of those cheaters, that are on every corner in Kiev, those vultures waiting to rip you apart and eat alive. Got to stay vigilant, and the best way to fight their attempts is not to go to Kiev at all, and forget about sex for the rest of our miserable existence!

[TinyHippo]

Privacy may not be an issue, but reasonable precautions do not hurt.

1. Separate monger-phone. Physically separate, with no contacts overlap between the two, and no information exchanged via email. The reason is simple: Google, Skype, Facebook, Instagram are intrusive, they constantly hunt and collect information, but what is worse, they reveal it to my contacts.

In the past Gmail and Google Hangouts chat have been offering contacts from the list of my Kiev girlfriends. That is not my list, but theirs. Through the Skype I could see my girlfriends escort agencies names.

It went as far, as for one of my friend's in Kiev his escort learned his real life last name and more through Facebook, suggesting her to connect with him based on his personal phone number.

I learned this a long time ago in the 90's. I left my phone in the glove box while my girlfriend sat in the car while I went in a shop and then my other girl called. My GF answered the phone. That was some drama for sure.

A phone number / email can tie you to your real name and if you happen to put your dick in crazy, she will be able to reach out to your friends, your work, or post on your Instagram or wherever. I go as far as to make exclusive pics for Mamba / Monger Apps just in case Google Images reverse search works. Girls often do not even delete their Whatsapp / Viber messages. I once canceled a Mamba appointment and then wrote the girl six months later and she sent me a screen shot of me writing that I was canceling our appointment! It blew my mind. So as Slider said, be sure to keep two phones. This is also really handy because you can just turn off your Monger phone when you do not need it in use or when you are back home.

I would never give an escort or Mamba girl my Instagram, but I am pretty popular photographer on Instagram and this has worked well for me on Tinder. Interesting Instagram = interesting foreigner.

[PhotoSlider]

...Well we differ, and that's good. What a boring world if we were all the same!...

This is one of my favorite posts on this Forum!

The art of civilized dispute, and respectfully disagreeing.

To be continued for sure!

[PhotoSlider]

Yeah and it counter balances well with older guys that already have money and are no longer interested in economic slavery.

Mister Riina knows a thing or two about worldwide mongering! Even under the most hostile circumstances he found prosperity in more than one way.

[Riina]

Western world for Ukrainian girls with their life habits is a jail, just like for many of us, international mongers. And I am not talking about them Ukrainian girls being lazy, and not willing to work. It is about personal freedom, and enjoying their youth, of being loved and admired for looking so hot. Instead of accumulating debts and criticized for behaving too sexy.

Yeah and it counter balances well with older guys that already have money and are no longer interested in economic slavery.

[DramaFree11]

I'm referring to a girls friends. They all have friends looking for greener pastures. I meet some young hot Ukrainians sometimes and I have no chance with them specifically. But they got girlfriends that would kill to come to my country. When they connect me to a FB link of a close friend, first thing I say is boys should help girls and start inferring sponsorship to grab attention. Plus the hot chick I never had a chance with now has a motive to stay friends with me. Try it. It works.

The truth is most girls that land in America eventually become disgusted with Western culture.

Nice, Report, I met several that went to America, and almost 90% failed, for one reason or another. Back in the day the number was lower, now they are more spoiled and have more options, I would say the chance of success are very slim, just to different of life, that being said if they put in the hard work, they could adapt fairly quickly, just not that difficult if you prepare and are not afraid of hard work.

[DramaFree11]

Just finishing my second trip to Moscow in the last 2 months. I probably met 40-60 new people throughout my trips. Probably 8-10, where from Ukraine. Even though I am trying to avoid Ukraine like the plague it follows me everywhere.

All said that Ukraine was finished and there is no future there. One of the girls told me that 70% of her friends had left the country, some come back for Visa reasons, but are trying to leave the country full time now. She said that the people that our left can not leave because of age, have figured out how to make a decent living in Ukraine or have failed in there travels. Take this for what is worth, but you need to think about this when you are planning a trip to Kiev, it is only going to get worse.

When I lived in Kiev all people talked about was leaving the country, that was 4 years ago, I can only imagine what it is like now.

This post, is appropriate for today discussion. Others are posting about people wanting to leave Kiev, it is a huge problem, it is important for Newbies, to understand how big of an issue this is. This one of the main reasons for the decline of Kiev and in influx of S. Tour.

[DramaFree11]

I try to explain to girls and boys in Kiev that there is no better City than theirs in the whole wide world. And those, that were not much outside of Ukraine, are perplexed. They keep telling me: "Everybody wants out, and you go against the flow".

Yes I do.

Where else can I satisfy my lowly instincts and insatiable thirst for beauty to such a full extent except Kiev? Where else my buck can go such a distance?

People have been leaving Kiev for year, I use to tell them the same thing. There is no future there now, they want a better life. I know this is hard to understand, but this is the truth, I am have reported on this several times.

[DramaFree11]

Ukrainian or any?

I try to explain to girls and boys in Kiev that there is no better City than theirs in the whole wide world. And those, that were not much outside of Ukraine, are perplexed. They keep telling me: "Everybody wants out, and you go against the flow".

Yes I do.

Where else can I satisfy my lowly instincts and insatiable thirst for beauty to such a full extent except Kiev? Where else my buck can go such a distance?

Western world for Ukrainian girls with their life habits is a jail, just like for many of us, international mongers. And I am not talking about them Ukrainian girls being lazy, and not willing to work. It is about personal freedom, and enjoying their youth, of being loved and admired for looking so hot. Instead of accumulating debts and criticized for behaving too sexy.

For us, mongers. Kiev is an illusion of another reincarnation, of becoming young again.

Completely wrong most are lazy and average looking, sorry the rest of the post is correct. These girls would actually have to work 40-60 hours a week, like everyone else, in the Western World. And they do now want this lifestyle.

[PhotoSlider]

The truth is most girls that land in America eventually become disgusted with Western culture.

Ukrainian or any?

I try to explain to girls and boys in Kiev that there is no better City than theirs in the whole wide world. And those, that were not much outside of Ukraine, are perplexed. They keep telling me: "Everybody wants out, and you go against the flow".

Yes I do.

Where else can I satisfy my lowly instincts and insatiable thirst for beauty to such a full extent except Kiev? Where else my buck can go such a distance?

Western world for Ukrainian girls with their life habits is a jail, just like for many of us, international mongers. And I am not talking about them Ukrainian girls being lazy, and not willing to work. It is about personal freedom, and enjoying their youth, of being loved and admired for looking so hot. Instead of accumulating debts and criticized for behaving too sexy.

For us, mongers. Kiev is an illusion of another reincarnation, of becoming young again.

[PhotoSlider]

Just to clarify, that $2000 for test driving 20 is above and beyond 20 * $150 = $3000 that I pay my current regular for 20 meetings. So $5000 total for 20 test drives, though actually might be more like $6000, since not all the KEC girls are $250 for 2 hours. Many are $350 or higher.

Switch to Russian version of KEC website. In UAH it is cheaper, than in USD. For example 1 hour for new girl Bogdana 250 USD is translated to 7075 UAH on English version. And 6000 UAH on Russian version.

Customers asked WTF? And received the usual bullshit response from management about the price in UAH being for regular frequent customers and so on. AFAIK, it is not enforced. Higher price may be asked if customer doesn't speak local language. With me though length of stay has been discussed, not the payment, unless I asked for special discount. Their 500 UAH discount is next to worthless anyway. I liked GIA progressive rate scale better. KEC tweaked it, making less beneficial to prolong.

[PhotoSlider]

Here's a question for fellow mongers. Obviously, at some point the man has to get the girl's number, but what do you guys think about giving her your number and / or Instagram initially, if she seems reluctant to give hers? With a civilian, that would be very wimpy and guarantee nothing ever happened. But paying client maybe is different? (Privacy not an issue for me...).

Privacy may not be an issue, but reasonable precautions do not hurt.

1. Separate monger-phone. Physically separate, with no contacts overlap between the two, and no information exchanged via email. The reason is simple: Google, Skype, Facebook, Instagram are intrusive, they constantly hunt and collect information, but what is worse, they reveal it to my contacts.

In the past Gmail and Google Hangouts chat have been offering contacts from the list of my Kiev girlfriends. That is not my list, but theirs. Through the Skype I could see my girlfriends escort agencies names.

It went as far, as for one of my friend's in Kiev his escort learned his real life last name and more through Facebook, suggesting her to connect with him based on his personal phone number.

I do not simply switch SIM cards. I have physically separate monger-phone with separate AppleID, GoogleID, different Instagram, non-Google email and more. This phone may simply stay on WiFi in a flight more, no money needed. I go to Kiev once or twice a year, and so far didn't lose Kyivstar phone number, even when funds are depleted. Everybody does it while away from Ukraine.

I have not been in situations when my phone number or email could have been used against me with malicious intent. The worst was email about a year ago, asking for bitcoin deposit, threatening to reveal an erotic video featuring me as a villain, or maybe a protagonist. Still salivating in anticipation to submit it to Adult Video Academy Awards.

Any other threats? Please do share.

2. With the above said, I do not mind giving out my non-personal Kiev Instagram, and mongering phone number.

As you said, girls are reluctant to give theirs. Here is my trick: I do not ask for girl's phone number directly. But I give her more than my phone number. I hand over her my smartphone, and ask to dial herself, so that she would know my number, when I contact her. It is essentially the same, but psychologically makes it easier. Then my chances of her responding are higher. I scan right away for her presence in Viber, WhatsApp, Telegram, and ask what the preference is in terms of her own privacy and convenience.

I also say the proverbial "Prefer to pay you directly instead of agency" blah-blah-blah.

Instagram is similar. Most of the girls are addicted to it badly. They want everybody to see thousands of their selfies, and admire their beauty. Again, show her your souped up Kiev Instagram, demonstrating what an interesting person you are. Let her browse, she may ask for permission to follow you.

After that the question is. Do you have time for constant IG junkies and Viber chats? That is the main drawback. Other than that, IG and Viber allow to block pesky abusers.