Kyiv

[Kirch]

Long-term prostitution with one man: a special case is the many girls in Kyiv, who do not prostitute themselves with many men, but who prostitute themselves with a series of rich men. The girls call these men 'my boyfriend' and insist that they are very much in love. If that were so, why do they live apart? In most cases the reason is that the man is married and thus places the girl in a centrally located flat to a) buy her and be) have a place to use her. It is a bit more difficult to find out about such girls, but it's also possible: clear signs are once again that she doesn't work, that she has a upscale flat in the center, that she goes all the time to expensive restaurants, that she lives alone and that she frequently travels outside of Ukraine (with her 'boyfriend' of course). Such girls have nothing to do all day, they go to the fitness studio, they visit café after café, they meet some friends and wait all week around for the time her sponsor comes to use her at his flat. Such girls will never have time to meet you for two reasons: the first is that in the evening they need to be available for their paymaster before he heads to his family's place, and the second reason is that usually his friends know about her and if she is found to meet another man for a date, she risks losing her job and flat. Only if such a girl senses that she is about to lose her current paymaster or that you are ready to take over as paymaster, she will become active and want to meet you; until then she 'is a busy girl', 'has so much to do', 'has so little free time', and so many other idiotic excuses why she cannot meet you, during the 23 hours of the day she has nothing to do.

Short-term prostitution with many men: another special case is girls, who have a series of boyfriends that change repeatedly and abruptly. These girls, like the ones above, have their own flat, they visit expensive restaurants etc. The main difference is that these girls rent their flats themselves, while the above live in flats owned or rented by their sponsor. To make sure that they have money for their flats they will continuously switch between wealthy boyfriends with the intent to secure money for rent and food. Relationships of 2-3 weeks are not uncommon and also these girls insist that they are in 'love'. These girls are most often the most diseased of the girls you can meet; while the long-term sponsored girls sleep with just one man and the full-time prostitutes use condoms with their clients, these girls sleep with their 'boyfriends' without condoms (they are in love after all!) and ignore the fact that such guys have a dozen 'girlfriends' at any given time. Also these girls might be in 'love' with many men at the same time. And if by the end of the month they did not manage to find their rent, you can find them at the-Lux desperate to sell themselves for the rent.

Mamba: mamba. Ru is where all prostitutes in Ukraine converge, looking for either a sponsor or for some quick hourly sex for money deals. A girl with a profile there is a prostitute; the few exceptions are in the single digits and leave the site quickly. Mamba is difficult to mine for information, but if you have the time it will yield endless information about professional hookers, the reason being that the girls while using fake names enter their true birthdays and use the same photos as on vkontakte. If you manage to find a girl you do like in real life on mamba, write her there under an assumed identity, and you can be sure to receive the prices, conditions and services she offers and also the list of her girlfriends she can bring along.

If you still want to date a girl, who fits all or some of the description above, feel free to do so. But be aware that she will be with you only as long it makes financial sense for her. Furthermore do yourself a favor and send her to the gynecologist before you sleep with her without a condom: vaginal bacteria are as common as iPhones with girls in the-Lux and furthermore none of them takes the anti-baby pill.

Per se these girls are not bad, but they are lazy. The reason these girls prefer to sell themselves is not, because they need the money, the sole reason is that they are too lazy to do any kind of work; work in any form is anathema to them, but at the same time they want a luxurious lifestyle without doing anything for it but pulling their legs apart and looking at the ceiling for twenty minutes.

If you wish to find a girl worthy of your affection and for a long lasting relationship, don't go out to the clubs mentioned at the beginning of the blog. There your chances to find a girl worthy of your time and energy are zero. Work and make friends with your work colleagues. They will take you along to their get-together, where you will meet their friends and their sisters. All of whom do work, all of whom will have little money, and among these you will find a beautiful, smart, sweet, wonderful girl that is neither lazy nor obsessed with money. Remember: any girl that has no job, but lives in her own flat is most likely to be a hooker. The girls you want to meet, date and love are those who study and work since they were seventeen years old.

And if you are really desperate for intimacy, then don't bother to go to the-Lux or Safe, or the like: go to Rio Strip Club next to the opera: there girls are friendlier, more honest, younger, available, cheaper and cleaner.

[Kirch]

If you are still unsure if a girl you met is a prostitute or not, then it is time for some research. Go to vkontakte to check the girls profile out. If you do not have vkontakte then this blog will be of little help to you as you haven't really arrived in Kyiv yet (www.vk.com). Find the girl: if she did not give you her full name, her birthday and first name will suffice. Girls have a habit to have much more racy and revealing photos on vkontakte than on facebook. An added bonus is that vkonakte's privacy measures are sloppy and friendlists are not hidden.

Travel Photos: First thing you do is to check out her photos: a lot of professional underwear and bikini photos are already a bad sign. A lot of travel photos from all kinds of exotic destinations all over the world are even worse. If you work in a normal job, if you are from a normal Ukrainian family you do not have the means to travel the world. You get 2-3 weeks of holiday a year and a holiday in Egypt, in Turkey or some bus tour of Western Europe is the maximum you can pay from your salary. Holidays in expensive and faraway places: e. G. Maldives, Dominican Republic, India, Thailand, Australia, etc. For example are always paid for by clients, or rich boyfriends (more about rich 'boyfriends' below). Repeated trips to the United Arab Emirates are an especially auspicious sign of travel prostitution; namely sex for a holiday. Trips to Israel, Dominican Republic, LOS Angeles, New York, etc. – maybe some ignorant local boys believe the girls' stories that male friends invited them to join them on these short trips, just because these friends are just very friendly; but you should not: if a Ukrainian girl is invited to visit the Bahamas it is only because the inviter can invite himself to all orifices of her body in return.

Type of Photos and Posing: One of the typical things girls from poor backgrounds will post are a ridiculous amount of photos showing them indulging in luxury. These photos are meant to showcase their coolness, and their friends in their little villages might be impressed by them. However when doing research these images are quite helpful as they show so much more than these girls intended. Images of a girl sitting in a luxury car means just that this is the car of the man that ordered her; Images of a girl in a flat with view of Central Park, just means that in this flat she will soon be used by the owner of the flat; Images of a girl putting a spoon of caviar in her mouth just means that she will soon swallow another reproductive liquid next; Images taken inside a Rolls Royce do not mean that it's her car, they just mean that she is dumb and poor and that this drive to her client is the first time she has come close to luxury. Photos on yachts and in private jets just showcase the type of a client a girl usually services and what prices she expects to be paid for having no dignity. The same rule applies for photos taken in airport business lounges and hotel rooms; none of these girls can pay for these amenities and you need to understand, she is just showing us her commute to work and her workplace.

Friendlists: Luckily vkontakte doesn't hide friendlists. One can only hide up to 15 friends. If one has been to Kyiv for some time one knows directly or indirectly a large number of prostitutes. Therefore after you have checked out her photos look at the friendlist: often you can find a 10-20% of the girls in a friendlist to be known prostitutes. One girl, who works and studies, might know at maximum 2-3 girls, who are involved in the trade. But when a girl has over 10 prostitutes in her friendlist then it is safe to assume she knows them from common work experiences. Another telling sign is the amount of much older foreign men a girl has in her friendlist on facebook – if the amount is more than 50% of all male friends, she is managing her client base through facebook.

Check-ins: thanks to smartphones, there is an inflation of girls checking into places: be it restaurants, clubs, bars, airports, etc. And they are some of the most revealing information one can find: girls that regularly check into expensive restaurants do so to announce their presence and current availability to their usual clients. As no Ukrainian girl has the means or the will to pay for diner in such a place herself, they fully expect some sucker to read the check-in and go to the place to pay for diner and extra for sex-services afterwards. In earlier times girls, instead of checking in, used to send sms announcing 'I am in the center. Let's meet at Safe in 20 min' and were actually angry if you dared to not rush there to pay diner for her and the friends she brought along to dine on the sucker's expense too. So check her profile for check-ins: lots of visits to Safe, SkyBar, Byblos, Velour, and the-Lux, especially during the week tell you all you need to know. Also check with whom they visit these places: checking in with a known prostitute is not uncommon. Furthermore check-ins at airports during the week for 2-3 day trips are not friends inviting her over to Cannes to go shopping with her at Burberry, but a client in need of a quality body.

Photos of flats: Rent in Kyiv is expensive. Even if one works full time it often is not enough to rent one's own flat. So check profiles on vkontakte for photos of flats. The dumbest girls take an excessive amount of themselves in their flat; very commonly in front of the mirror, an iPhone in hand, showing off new dresses, shoes, fur coats, etc. That they were tipped with. A luxury flat in the center can mean only one thing: a full-time prostitute or a wealthy, married sponsor, who pays for that flat in exchange for exclusive access to that girl's body.

[Kirch]

I have posted this about 7 years ago. I found it somewhere in the internet. It is still so much truth about it, I still have to laugh reading this.

If you've just arrived in Kyiv, chances are that you will quickly be informed by helpful work colleagues and business partners about the places to dine at and the places to party. They are but a few and they are full of stunning girls. So let's start our checklist by assuming you just went out for the first time and met this nice English-speaking girl, with an amazing body, who was so sweet with you:

Where did you meet her? If it was at the-Lux, SkyBar, Dante Park, Arena, Avalon, Shooters, Byblos, Serebro, Velour, Buddha Bar, Mokko, Richelieu, Ok Bar, Safe (to name just some of the worst places to meet a girl) , there is a strong likelihood that this girls is a hooker. If you met her at the-Lux, don't kid yourself – that's a *house with 80% working girls swarming its three floors. SkyBar is the same, but just on one floor, while Dante Park has a slightly lower hooker level, but still there are 2 chances out of 3 that she was there to work. Arena and Avalon have a lower class of hookers, but an even higher percentage of hookers than the-Lux. Shooters is a special case: students go there to dabble in their first sex-for-money experiences and also girls to ugly to pass the face control at the top clubs. Byblos, Serebro and Velour are the places where rich Ukrainians pick up their sex-snacks and so the chances that she speaks English are low, but she is likely to charge you premium prices for being so daft to have picked her up there. For a long time Buddha Bar used to be the prostitution center of Kyiv, but lately management has been clamping down strongly on the amount of hookers allowed to enter. Mokko, Richelieu, Ok Bar and Safe are favorite hangouts for some of the most expensive ladies one can find in Kyiv; sipping on one coffee for the whole evening and waiting for some rich man to invite them to share dinner with him and later share his bed. Safe and OK Bar are by far the worst offenders in this regard and any girl going there regularly is a girl to avoid. All these places have in common, that none of the girls can afford to actually be there, and if she is there it is so to find a man to pay for her: there and hers truly too.

What day of the week did you meet her? Has it been a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday? Remember that any Ukrainian girl, who studies or works will only in the rarest of circumstances go out during the week. Students at Ukrainian universities have an immense work load and must be at class early in the morning; therefore they do not go out during the week and if they do, they will be with a group of friends and head home early. Girls who work, work long hours, need to be at work early in the morning and receive paltry salaries – hence they sleep on weekday evenings and do not have the money to go out to such expensive places. A girl that can go to clubs and restaurants all days of the week is most likely there to sell herself, especially if she is still there after midnight.

What does she do in life? One of the first questions to ask is what a girl does in life; if she answers 'Student', 'Looking for a job', 'Undecided', 'Model', all alarm bells should start ringing at once! Students (see above) neither have the time to go out nor the money; a girl who doesn't work in Kyiv cannot survive in this city (unless her parents are rich– see point below); and if she claims to be a model then this is code for 'I think I am a model, because I am a tall and thin hooker!' Kyiv is a city with thousands of models, none of which earns enough money to pay for even a flat. True top models do not stay in Kyiv, they quickly move to fashion capitals in the West, where they can make more money. 'Models' in Kyiv are tall, thin girls, who sometimes dabble a bit in modeling, but as there are so many of them, none can actually earn her living and 95% of them also work in other ways with their bodies.

Maybe her parents are rich? Well, they might– and there is an easy way to find out: 'Do you have a car? ' if she confirms ask what car it is. A girl from a truly rich family will have her own car and not just some cheap little Japanese one, but a Lexus or Mercedes jeep or even a Porsche Cayenne. But then a girl from such a family wouldn't be found at a place full of hookers like E. G. Safe. She would be at one of the luxury restaurants foreigners don't even know about, and she wouldn't speak with you. Chances are high that a girl going out to the above mentioned clubs and talking to a foreigner with a car in the 50 k $ range got this car as a gift from one of her wealthy married lovers. But if she doesn't have a car and doesn't work, then she is very likely a prostitute. No middle class family in Ukraine has the means or the inclination to allow their daughters not to work after university, and if a girl doesn't have a car and doesn't work, then her source of income is between her legs, which pays nicely for life in Kyiv, but won't earn her enough for buying a car.

Phrases and keywords to look out for: There are phrases that if uttered are a clear sign that you should move on. The most obvious of them are: 'I like generous man' means 'I look for a sucker to pay for everything! '; 'I am not a girl for the average man! ' means 'My body is only for men from 100 k $ disposable income p. A. And up!' 'I am a popular girl!' means 'I already have a lot of clients, so if you want me – start the bidding! '; 'This is a real Gucci / Prada / etc. Bag / watch / etc. ' means 'See what other men paid for me, top them or I will move on. ' and my favorite 'I am not a prostitute' which actually means 'Your offer is to low!'

Other things to look out for: To much makeup, to low cut dresses, breasts hanging halfway out of the bustier, navel piercings – many hookers dress like hookers; but the most common single identification symbol is: not all girls in Kyiv with an iPhone are hookers, but all hookers in Kyiv have an iPhone! Always the newest model and always nearby to show they have it; naturally they had it presented to them by one of their clients, because none of them ever spends her own money on anything.

[PhotoSlider]

...My advice. Go to Ukraine, make some contacts and be a good customer. I can guarantee you there will be girls begging their friends to have you. It happens for me like all the time with Ukrainians and I live in Chicago.

My expat friend has a nice residence and stays in Kiev most of the time. One of the nights we met for a late dinner, and I was going to order a call girl afterwards. Offered him to partake as well, to which he wearily responded:

- Thanks, but I am afraid I shall pass.

- How so?

- Well, I just returned from having both Svetlana and Oksana at their location. You know them.

- Yes I do.

- Right. I had them both, and as you might have noticed, Svetlana's ass is not for faint-hearted. She is rather demanding young lady.

- That she is indeed)) Did you change the condoms while switching between them?

- Yes I did. And the night before that full-bodied Ruslana invited her best friend Natasha, who just separated from her husband, and told her how happy she is with me. So went to hammam for a few hours, where I had them both as well, and they finished a bottle of cognac between the two of them, I didn't drink, and they took turns draining my energy. I am sorry, but I will pass tonight.

And the moral of the story is exactly as Riina pointed out: Treat them Ukrainian ladies nice, and they will not leave you sleeping alone.

[GDreams]

I think I need to alter my approach and not be so honest, what do you think?

I have not been to Kiev for some time. When I was working in Africa I went a lot, racking up about three years of my life spent there and marrying a local. I kept it very simple. Put down the relevant info on your profile and send a message like. 'I will be in Kiev in 2 weeks, do you want to meet?

If the answer is yes then ask for a phone number. If you are going to ask anything ask what are some nice restaurants, what are your favourite places to visit etc. I still use that approach for other areas I visit and it still works. Most guys never turn up so girls will often do not want to invest time unless you arrive. When you arrive be prepared. Out of 10 girls 5 will not show up, 2 won't like you, 2 you won't like and there will be the one you hit it off with! Enjoy!

[DramaFree11]

Kozerog once mentioned something about grinding through a junk heap to find a gem. Well, it works the other way too. Girls have to grind their way to a good sponsor. As a foreigner making contact outside the country, you're automatically categorized under the junk pile.

My advice. Go to Ukraine, make some contacts and be a good customer. I can guarantee you there will be girls begging their friends to have you. It happens for me like all the time with Ukrainians and I live in Chicago.

Traveling from Sweden, to Kiev will be a major down grade. Let's try to give some constructive feedback.

[Riina]

I think I need to alter my approach and not be so honest, what do you think?

Kozerog once mentioned something about grinding through a junk heap to find a gem. Well, it works the other way too. Girls have to grind their way to a good sponsor. As a foreigner making contact outside the country, you're automatically categorized under the junk pile.

My advice. Go to Ukraine, make some contacts and be a good customer. I can guarantee you there will be girls begging their friends to have you. It happens for me like all the time with Ukrainians and I live in Chicago.

[FuckedUpSwede]

I have read a good portion of the thread with great pleasure. I live in Sweden, as my avatar suggest, and I am not a seasoned monger.

Kiev is a short, and cheap, flight from Stockholm. I have never visited Ukraine before, I mostly travel inside Sweden for work and sometimes to the European cities for work and for leisure. I am 45 years old and reasonably fit.

I created a profile on Mamba. I put in a phrase in English telling that I am a businessman travelling in Europe that want some intellectual, and maybe, physically stimuli when travelling thru Kiev. I told my real age, told I am a bit overweight (80 kg /174 cm), high income (I suppose I have in comparison to Ukraine), put a nice photo of myself in a swimming pool drinking a Pina Colada and gave it a shot. I sent out a generic "Hi" to approx 20 females from 25-45 that accepted my age and spoke English (according to their profile).

Most did not answer at all, some put me on ignore and a few answered with bad English.

One that answered was 35 and directly started to try to control me, asking for photos in different angles and asked why I was bothering her. I told her that I wanted some company when in Kiev and she sent me a Viber number and told me to contact her when in Kiev.

The others spoke such bad English so I just deleted them. I do not only want to fuck, I want to hang out with them for a day and see Kiev.

Round 2.20 new candidates, same outcome. One with reasonably good English and also interest.

She is 40, lives with her grown up son in a 25 sqm apartment in a grey suburb earning $300 a month just covering rent. A bit old but looked nice and I told her I want to meet her and walk around Kiev for a day including lunch and a fancy dinner. I thought she would be super happy with this deal. No fucking was ever mentioned. Just walk around for a day with a nice gentleman from Sweden. She answers "I not have shoes for walking" "you buy shoes" "I have size 35" and then sends me a link to some shoes for 6800 UAH. I tell her, perfectly true, that I am not a poor guy, I earn over average in Sweden, but I drive around in a old Toyota and live in a small house in the woods. She replied with some rude comments and I ended conversation.

I think I need to alter my approach and not be so honest, what do you think?

[Michi T]

I feel lack of time is every real monger's obstacle to finding value and quality abroad. The hunt for relationships takes time and their's a pace that can't be forced.

Having enough time, no pressure, is a "must".

[PhotoSlider]

I feel lack of time is every real monger's obstacle to finding value and quality abroad. The hunt for relationships takes time and there's a pace that can't be forced.

Golden words! That's why I do not go for 3-4 day trips anymore. Even 2 weeks is not enough. That could also be why AFAIK expats do not post here on our Forum. They establish relationships and stay happy without listening to nonsense about how terrible Kiev is.

[Riina]

I believe there exist very high quality girls In Kyiv, at half the price of Moscow, but they don't come handed to you on a silver platter. You have to work for them. If you don't put in the work, you get the bad results DramaFree11 complains about in this thread and CzarNicholas complains about in the Moscow thread.

I feel lack of time is every real monger's obstacle to finding value and quality abroad. The hunt for relationships takes time and their's a pace that can't be forced.

[PhotoSlider]

This is so symbolic! One guys says:

- Dreams are your reality.

The other responds:

- Think what you want.

Is there a fool-proof way to assess the qualities of lady in question, those qualities that truly matter to a particular customer? Is there a role model lady that would satisfy the strictest requirements by everybody?

VK pix may not be as glamorous, but I tend to be on Michi T side, as obviously Julia made him proud and happy. IMO that is most important. She is not with MisterXXX, and as much as he is entitled to his opinion, and freedom to express it, unless he met her face to face, it doesn't matter.

I wouldn't call the girl ugly, and bottom line, as they said in "Pulp Fiction", personality goes a long way!

I had repeated visits from a young student, she took a train ride 3 hours one way, but that's beyond the point. Now looking at her pictures, I know MisterXXX would surely disapprove of her. Yet, currently she is my favorite. Does it mean I am omnivorous, indiscriminate? Well, that maybe I am but she is special in many ways even outside the bed, and the manner, in which she behaves, touches my soul beyond any hope for my recovery in the nearest future. To most on the Forum her photos would not mean anything, and to me she is the most beautiful. Her legs are so long, her smile, her eyes, and the way they change when we discuss something of extreme interest to both of us, her smile, and our first kiss at the small cafe, and how later in the cab it went slightly longer, and then deeper, and then I asked her:

- Do you want to come to my place? If you don't, that will not change anything.

And she responded in shy but persistent voice:

- Yes, I do.

How can you discern, recognize all of this magic in the picture posted on our Forum?

Pointless argument. Dreams are our reality indeed, and we'll think what we want.

[DramaFree11]

Had a great week in my home town with the girl from Kiev. Not a working girl, a normal girl which I met in real life.

Happy new year to all of you!

Nice looking girl, good job!

[DramaFree11]

And I've never been there myself. Also, I'm not really questioning DramaFree11's views. It's just seeing how he flips from black to white when going from Kyiv to Moscow is mind-boggling. I should have read the Moscow thread long ago, and highly recommend that thread to others here, just to get some perspective, even if you never plan to visit Moscow.

My own views about the mongering scene in Kyiv are much closer to those of PhotoSlider, with the caveat that he has a lot more energy and experience than me and probably most average guys. That is, I believe there exist very high quality girls In Kyiv, at half the price of Moscow, but they don't come handed to you on a silver platter. You have to work for them. If you don't put in the work, you get the bad results DramaFree11 complains about in this thread and CzarNicholas complains about in the Moscow thread.

Sorry, I have to completely disagree, again. There is zero comparison. I will agree Kiev is Cheaper, but not by much anymore. Hard work pays off, that is why am successful in both Moscow and Parts of Mexico. You might want to read all my posts. Lived in Kiev, no way I can have the quality of girls that I am now having in both Mexico and Russia now. Please read all my posts. I am very critical of Kiev, because of the details you guys leave out about Kiev. (Too Many Sex Tourists, Scams, Lies, Lack of Quality Women, the City is dead after 9 pm.) I have always K said that Kiev is average with bellow average night life. If that is what you are looking then go. Why fly around the world to bang 5-6's, I can have that in America for free or all day in Mexico.

Again, I ask you guys to think about newbies, the details some leave out about Kiev is amazing.

[Michi T]

Had a great week in my home town with the girl from Kiev. Not a working girl, a normal girl which I met in real life.

Happy new year to all of you!