Kyiv

[Jojosun]

I completely agree. So here's my advice to average newcomers to Kyiv, who have a limited budget, regarding pricing for semi-pros from Mamba. Start with offer of $100 for 1-2 hours. If you like the girl and want to see her longer, offer $150 to extend to 3-4 hours. If the girl initially had an high opinion of her value and demanded $100 for a single hour and you agreed to that, then she probably won't agree to extend to 4 hours for $150. But you should be able to extend to 2 hours for $150, unless she had prior scheduling commitments. Next visit, try to get her to accept $150 for 3 hours, and eventually you might be able to push her to 4 hours for that amount.

Most semi-pros in Kyiv will be highly tempted by $150 for 4 hours from a repeat client who wasn't unpleasant, unless they are very short of time (university student, young child, full time job, etc). If shortage of time is the problem, maybe try to accommodate her schedule by letting her arrive in work clothes and relax a bit at your hotel or apartment before sex.

I'm aware that not everyone wants that much time, whereas I prefer longer sessions twice a week rather than shorter but more frequent sessions. Fire those newcomers who prefer shorter seasons, advice can be shortened to "offer $100 for an hour of sex"..

Great reports Kozerog, I really enjoy reading them and thanks about your.

Tip about the Keffir Drink for Health and Vitality, longevity.

It took me a while to find the Long Life drink in Houston as at first I had to find the Russian store,{ Baba Vega} there. IN London it's easier to find Keffir.

You really need to update Lonely Planet's Book https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...-a-shoestring. with your own latest experiences, doing Kiev on, US $ 40 a day all in Daily living expenses. Eastern Europe on a Shoestring.

BTW, the guide was so useful for me first time I used it very late 80's when.

I first did few EE& Central European countries on a solo backpacking trip starting with Prague but never made it to Kiev at that time. Eventually made it 20 years older and with a much deeper Pocket, LOL.

[Jojosun]

She left GIA before at least once. There also seemed to be a report of her showing up at the customer's with a serious hangover. She did a complete website pix makeover after that.

Either way, 33 years old is not exactly what some of us are after, even when the range of services is extensive.

I don't know if you were around at the time of River Palace years? At that time Valeria looked closer to 30 than 20 and had a different hair color. Spoke with her few times at the club, But never took her out as I wasn't attracted by her looks.

She also did Buddha bar later on along with few other girls from ex RP Club.

[Kozerog]

...To me the attraction of Kiev are the semi pros and the sponsoring game.

I completely agree. So here's my advice to average newcomers to Kyiv, who have a limited budget, regarding pricing for semi-pros from Mamba. Start with offer of $100 for 1-2 hours. If you like the girl and want to see her longer, offer $150 to extend to 3-4 hours. If the girl initially had an high opinion of her value and demanded $100 for a single hour and you agreed to that, then she probably won't agree to extend to 4 hours for $150. But you should be able to extend to 2 hours for $150, unless she had prior scheduling commitments. Next visit, try to get her to accept $150 for 3 hours, and eventually you might be able to push her to 4 hours for that amount.

Most semi-pros in Kyiv will be highly tempted by $150 for 4 hours from a repeat client who wasn't unpleasant, unless they are very short of time (university student, young child, full time job, etc). If shortage of time is the problem, maybe try to accommodate her schedule by letting her arrive in work clothes and relax a bit at your hotel or apartment before sex.

I'm aware that not everyone wants that much time, whereas I prefer longer sessions twice a week rather than shorter but more frequent sessions. Fire those newcomers who prefer shorter seasons, advice can be shortened to "offer $100 for an hour of sex".

Womaniszer recently, and others previously, have reported good experiences paying $50 for several hours with semi pros. However, I think "average" newcomers will be frustrated at the quality of girls they get at that price, which is why I recommended an initial offer of $100 for 1-2 hours. It is possible some of these men having success with $50 offers are younger and better looking than average clients, in which case girls may think "why not let him taste the milk and maybe he'll buy the cow?" In other words, reduced price in hopes of marriage aka the long game.

It's also possible to get quality girls at lower prices if you speak Russian, since girls without English ability have limited access to foreign clients. (Most such girls are currently from eastern Ukraine, so Russian language currently more useful than Ukrainian.).

To repeat what I said before, independents and semi pros are likely to be flexible about giving extra time, especially to repeat clients who are not unpleasant, because of the time and effort involved in finding new clients. Another reason to prefer independents and semi pros to agency girls. Other reasons: girls receive entire amount of money paid rather than just 50% or less, and so are doubly motivated at a given cost from client's perspective; no agency keeping track of man's sexual activities, which I found annoying the few times I used agency girls; girls less stressed out because they can refuse clients they don't like and only one client per day in case of semi-pros and some independent pros (KEC aka Gia girls also only see one client per day, supposedly).

I'm using usd (rather than uah because the exchange rate is once again changing. Also, all these numbers are just ballpark figures. $100 = 2787 uah right now. Obviously, you could round to either 2500 or 3000 uah depending on various factors. Finally, as noted, this pricing advice is for men with limited budget. If budget unlimited, then just pay whatever the girl asks.

[Stefan 7]

Some girls at Rio do oral sex without condom, 2 girls even gave me their phone numbers and had meetings for $200 for 2 hours, I would rather do that than go the club.

[PhotoSlider]

I think I remember seeing her before at River Palace, 2009/10 as she seemed to be a regular. Now nearly 9 years older is at.

http://kievescort.club/girl/valeria4

She left GIA before at least once. There also seemed to be a report of her showing up at the customer's with a serious hangover. She did a complete website pix makeover after that.

Either way, 33 years old is not exactly what some of us are after, even when the range of services is extensive.

[Jojosun]

I think I remember seeing her before at River Palace, 2009/10 as she seemed to be a regular. Now nearly 9 years older is at.

http://kievescort.club/girl/valeria4

[Jojosun]

The rate in sept was around 14 grevnas to the or 8. 5 to the $.

10 days ago it was between 13 to 13.35, to the .

So 50 grevnas is about 3.75.

Frankly speaking, if it wasn't for the current favourable exchange rates and $ to the UAH and cheap airfares from london, I don't think, I would classify Kiev as a reasonable mongering destination.

I hope it is not going the same way as poland. As late as June 09, you could get 5. 10 zloty pln to the , now it is 4. 50.

This is, all in preparation for poland to join the euro system.

Then we can say goodbye to sex in poland, because prices will shoot up, and 100 zloty be will be quoted as 100 euro.

Some Polish hookers are already asking the golden figure of 100 Euro Ph.

What I said at the time, Nov 2009. To me the attraction of Kiev are the semi pros and the sponsoring game.

[PhotoSlider]

...Additionally, in so many years GIA never had more than 40 girls. Some left or were let go, new ones got hired, but exclusive nature of the agency ensured satisfaction at all levels: customers, providers, management and protection. That also supports Kozerog's statement that there is a sufficient pool of talented candidates willing to join, and measuring their ambitions and aspirations against girls compensation at GIA...

Now having said the above, I see a fallacy in my own reasoning.

Currently KEC-GIA shows 34 girls are employed, and 16 are available today.

What does it really mean that number of KEC-GIA providers never go above 40?

Is it because at this price range it matches the demand? Or because 30-40 girls generate the cash flow high enough to pay off all the parties involved?

The latter is hard to believe. Greed is never fully satisfied.

There were questions about branching out into Odessa and L'viv to generate even more revenue through local presence, and GIA answered in a standard manner: "GIA girls can travel to you anywhere, and customer covers the travel expenses, as Kiev is The HQ".

Maybe beyond 40 it is more difficult to manage? There must be a reasonable ratio of management overhead per actual worker bees head count, and desire to keep the former at a minimum.

Apologies to Kozerog, as I go off on a tangent here, and away from his original subject of determining the reasonable price range. The thought of measuring up yourself back at 35 years old to the current partner as a marriage candidate is truly brilliant! It also relieves one of an actual obligation to marry a WG, quite a risky proposition indeed, but we are not 35 anymore, and can enjoy the ride as long as it is mutually beneficial.

...In other words, if you can offer somewhere upwards of $150 (4200 uah) per meeting of several hours, you should have no difficulty attracting high quality independents, assuming you are not an unpleasant customer...

Great concise statement, couldn't have said it better! And we are not talking about 30-60 minutes with a clock watcher. $150 per visit gives few hours of genuine GFE pleasure. It is not guaranteed, but if played properly, probability is fairly high. See the recent reports by NorskKing, Womaniszer et al. That is precisely why I travel to Kiev, besides the lower cost of quality living. $40 a day without girls is impressive. I'll try. My apartments in the past were in $120-150/ day range, with emergence of AirBnB it went down to $80-100 and now is at $50 downtown, very nice.

[PhotoSlider]

When I wrote 4 hour average, I was thinking most clients go 1-2 hours but then occasional clients go overnight or even several days in the case of a girl traveling with the client, which brings the average up.

You are absolutely correct, GIA-KEC price structure strongly encourages prolongation. Additional hours of extension cost progressively less and less:

Today going from 4 hours to 6 to 8 could be mere 25 USD per hour more. Extending 8 to 10 is 20 USD per hour more.

Extending 10 to 24 hours is only 3000 UAH more (less than 8 USD per hour). Unlike others, at night I do not sleep 8 hours straight, and after 3-5 hours of rest my requests for intimacy were not denied by those GIA girls that stayed overnight. They wake up and perform without any hint of complaint. Thus supporting Kozerog's point of view that providers value their employment with GIA.

The most affordable GIA girls today start at 4000. Two years ago my favorite one was at 3000. Exchange rate was roughly the same, definitely not 30% lower. Therefore GIA is even more expensive today. It seems that so far market demand supports their business model.

Additionally, in so many years GIA never had more than 40 girls. Some left or were let go, new ones got hired, but exclusive nature of the agency ensured satisfaction at all levels: customers, providers, management and protection. That also supports Kozerog's statement that there is a sufficient pool of talented candidates willing to join, and measuring their ambitions and aspirations against girls compensation at GIA.

For those more expensive GIA girls, that start at 6 K UAH for the first hour, extending 10 to 24 hours instead of additional 8 USD / hour makes it 13 USD. 23000 UAH for 24 hours is substantial chunk of money (almost a grand), but still only $35/ hour. And in reality I paid significantly (more than 3 times) less for GIA quality girls.

Going back to average length of stay stay with GIA girls. My last 15+ stays usually lasted anywhere from 2 to 11 hours. One of them resulted in calling up one more girl. 2 stays were for 3 days with 4-6 hour breaks for classes and finals at the University, and 1 stay was for 11 amazing days. Only one girl was so-so, but mostly due to her lack of confidence resulting in poor manners, she was 20 and still above and beyond being awesome in bed.

For the sake of statistical analysis I would treat multiple days stays as outliers. Then multi-hour stays average out to 6-7 hours. Perhaps I spend more than a typical GIA customer, but only management would know that.

Now, before we get into a pissing contest about GIA or Kiev or Ukrainian girls in general being mediocre, ugly, unattractive and all that bullshit, please read Kozerog's explanation on what female qualities are important to him personally. Some Forum members value tall and slender, some need BBBJCIMWS + Greek, - preferences and criteria are endless, and they do not always overlap. I tend to agree with Kozerog, and find it difficult to find a viable alternative to Ukrainian beauties, mostly due to their attitude, manners, style, as well as looks and certainly price.

For my female visitors average take home pay was anywhere from free to 300-400 USD. Mostly it was 2 categories: 75 USD for a one hour quickie, and 150-300 USD for 4-10 hours stay with MSOG, going out for a night on town, returning, Jacuzzi diving, and endless fun.

IMO bang for the buck ratio in Kiev is literally so much higher. YMMV.

[Jojosun]

First time I landed in Kiev in 2009 I had a walk along Kreschatick the main st there, bought a copy of the english newspaper there (Kiev Post) just to get a feel for the city and catch up with news and when I got to the last pages there was the Personal section full of ads for individual girls. At random I picked one girl called (Marina) and when she turned up at my hotel she was a solid 9 ,hot smoking girl. Speaking with her, it turned out that Marina advertised is the name of the agency she worked for and not her as she was a part time escort. When I returned to Kiev 2 months later I found out that a Pakistani businessman had bought Kiev Post and the first thing he did was to close Personals ads in there.

Then I got on Mamba and after a lot of prior research before I landed in Kiev (Operative word on Mamba, Prior research) and contact I met my present wingwoman, guide, scout, there when she was 22 years old looking for a sponsor and the rest is now history as I got my own circle of contacts (not for sharing).

As for Agencies, I wouldn't know what's the most reliable there at present But from feedback on here it seems the most reliable, albeit expensive is http://gia-escort.com/..

Top prices at the time were the same as now, $300 at Rio and around $200/250 at GIA. River Palace girls were around $,200.

The type of girls that appealed to me at the time were closer to UAH 800 an hour or $ 100 as the rate at the time was around 1 $=8 UAH.

I don't bargain or haggle with girls as my benchmark is $ 100 an hour in.

Kiev and I don't usually go for longer the first time. Still almost half the price of London &Houston for girls that take my fancy, usually Young Hot tanned Blondes similar to the ones below of Previous years that I had the pleasure with. https://web.archive.org/web/20130321...?girlid=479and.

https://web.archive.org/web/20120618...php?girlid=362

https://web.archive.org/web/20130213...php?girlid=473

https://web.archive.org/web/20130116...php?girlid=450

Any hot Kiev girl who are in looks similar and love a Binjamin for an hour or so will take my custom.

[Kozerog]

I do not think there is back log of hot girls lining up to work for GIA or other agencies,

What I meant was that the girls at the other agencies would mostly prefer to work for Kiev escort club aka Gia, but not all girls are accepted, thus girls at Kiev escort club do represent the elite among agency escort girls in Kyiv, and therefore their net earnings should give some idea of what it takes to attract elite independent escorts. Whether any escorts in Kyiv are "hot" or not is another story.

As an aside, I don't really want a "hot" escort. Rather, I want to feel like I am consorting with "quality" versus "trash". My criterion for "quality" is how would I feel if a girl were my wife back when I was 35 years old. Would I be proud to be seen in public with her? It's not just looks, it's also native intelligence, education, manners, and in general how the woman reflects on my judgement. By these criteria, my jewel rates as a 10. To put this in perspective, Laura Bush, wife of former USA president George Bush would also be a 10. Whatever Bush's failures of judgment elsewhere in life, no failure with respect to choosing a wife. By contrast, Melania Trump, wife of our current president is below a 10 by these criteria. That is, I would be somewhat embarrassed to have a wife like Melania, though the demonic part of me might get a thrill from "trampling on the bourgeoisie" (website doesn't accept the usual French version of this expression) by walking around with an obvious wh0 re on my arm. Obviously, my jewel is a wh0 re in fact, but then in my opinion all good women are wh0 res in the sense of wanting to use their sexuality to improve their position in life, so a non-issue. (Women who aren't wh0 res are fools, which is worse, because it means lack the sense to make use of their natural assets.) Indeed, if I were now 35 years old and wanted a family and was in a position to move to Ukraine at that age, I wouldn't hesitate to propose marriage to my jewel. (I'm not now and never was stupid enough to consider bringing a foreign wife back to the USA and face possible divorce r@pe.)

I real doubt many guys are doing more then 1-2 hours with the GIA girls, they simply can not afford those rates. Agree multiple hours is the best deal, but way too much for Kiev.

When I wrote 4 hour average, I was thinking most clients go 1-2 hours but then occasional clients go overnight or even several days in the case of a girl traveling with the client, which brings the average up.

[DramaFree11]

The consensus in this forum is that the kievescort. Club (formerly Gia Agency) girls get 40% of the gross price and see at most one client per day. If we assume each meeting averages 4 hours, with gross price of $550 (price of Ada, first girl in English lineup), then girl gets $220. We can further assume girls only get work orders for 3 days per week on average, if on call 6 days (some weeks they will work every day, such as during the football championship, other weeks will be very slow). It is also the consensus on this forum that girls are anxious to work for this agency, so that they usually have a backlog of applicants, and the girls there are high quality. This puts an upper limit on what TYPICAL high quality escorts in Kiev can earn of about $660 per week, or about $30000 per year, assuming 45 working weeks and 7 weeks down time due to illness, vacation, etc.

ATYPICAL escorts, with an especially photogenic face or otherwise appealing profile that men go wild for, might earn considerably more. And sky is the limit if a girl catches the fancy of one of the local oligarchs or some oil sheik.

As I noted previously, I paid my jewel 4000 uah per 4 hour meeting, or about $150 (exchange rate was slightly different then), plus I gave her a bonus at the final meeting which brought average price per meeting to about $190. So that's close to $220 per meeting I'm assuming Kiev escort club girls make on average. I consider my jewel equal in looks to a typical Kiev escort club girl, though it's her personality that primarily attracts me at this point..

Agree prices are not going down and I think $150 is a good price for multiple hours in Kiev. I think process will continue to rise for girls.

I do not think there is back log of hot girls lining up to work for GIA or other agencies, I would say there is not enough girls to fill there needs. There is just not a lot of hot girls running around Kiev. Look at the girls at Rio very average.

Also, I think most guys are in Kiev because it is cheap and they do not have a lot of money, I real doubt many guys are doing more then 1-2 hours with the GIA girls, they simply can not afford those rates. Agree multiple hours is the best deal, but way too much for Kiev.

[Kozerog]

...I don't think the prices for non-pros will get down in Kiev. They might even be more expensive next year. Contrary to the escort girls or the pros, the non-pros get the full amount of what we paid. So if we hire a pro for 2500 pocket, she will get only around the half. If we hire a non pro, she will have 2500 Uah in the pocket.

Here you can read what a girl told me on viber:

"I bought new car for 5 month and I am going to buy a new apartment in 1 year, so yes, I find lots of men who are happy to pay high price for high quality". 80% of girls work for agencies. I don't. So I can take 1000 Euro if I want". She wants 150 euro for 1 hour = 4500-4600 UAH.

The consensus in this forum is that the kievescort. Club (formerly Gia Agency) girls get 40% of the gross price and see at most one client per day. If we assume each meeting averages 4 hours, with gross price of $550 (price of Ada, first girl in English lineup), then girl gets $220. We can further assume girls only get work orders for 3 days per week on average, if on call 6 days (some weeks they will work every day, such as during the football championship, other weeks will be very slow). It is also the consensus on this forum that girls are anxious to work for this agency, so that they usually have a backlog of applicants, and the girls there are high quality. This puts an upper limit on what TYPICAL high quality escorts in Kiev can earn of about $660 per week, or about $30000 per year, assuming 45 working weeks and 7 weeks down time due to illness, vacation, etc.

ATYPICAL escorts, with an especially photogenic face or otherwise appealing profile that men go wild for, might earn considerably more. And sky is the limit if a girl catches the fancy of one of the local oligarchs or some oil sheik.

As I noted previously, I paid my jewel 4000 uah per 4 hour meeting, or about $150 (exchange rate was slightly different then), plus I gave her a bonus at the final meeting which brought average price per meeting to about $190. So that's close to $220 per meeting I'm assuming Kiev escort club girls make on average. I consider my jewel equal in looks to a typical Kiev escort club girl, though it's her personality that primarily attracts me at this point.

In other words, if you can offer somewhere upwards of $150 (4200 uah) per meeting of several hours, you should have no difficulty attracting high quality independents, assuming you are not an unpleasant customer for some reason (bad hygiene, rude, rough in bed, demand services the girl does not offer, etc).

Meeting length is something high quality independents should be flexible with, since acquiring and traveling to clients is very time consuming. That is, $150 for 4 hours is normally better for an independent than $100 for one hour, assuming most of the 4 hours is talking. Low end agency girls are another story, since they see multiple clients per day and agency takes care of acquiring clients and arranging transportation.

My experiences negotiating with mamba girls this past summer, even though those experiences never went anywhere, suggests $100 (2800 uah currently) per meeting should be sufficient to attract high quality semi-pros, and possibly $50 if you are a more attractive client (age closer to 40 than 60, better looking, repeat customer). This is in line with prices in Womaniszer's reports.

Bottom line, I don't think the girl asking 150 euro for one hour is unrealistic, but you certainly don't have to pay that price if you don't want, since other girls are definitely available for less: either lower price per meeting or more hours per meeting.

Also, as NorskKing pointed out, Kiev is very cheap for things other than escorts. My living costs were about $40 per day this past summer: $25 apartment, $7 food, $8 social activities, medical tests, dental cleaning, phone service, etc. Nothing for transportation since I walked everywhere, other than final day taxi to airport.

[DramaFree11]

I have been reading a lot of post lately about Kiev being not as good place as it was few years ago for mongering.

Many of you have discussed this very much (and thank you for your contribution and openness) and many have given reports that Kiev is not as cheap as before. Let us all consume the fact that it is in fact not as cheap as it was few years ago. Let us not discuss this anymore and take it as an obvious fact from now on.

But I think Kiev (I don't know other parts of Ukraine) is still comparable cheaper than any other country in Europe for many things (lets not talk about Maldova).

1) Erotic massages are still cheap (IMHO), they are everywhere in Kiev and the service is good. You can even get classic thai massage so cheap, get that stiffness out of your system for as low as 15 $ in some places.

Well said, there are many things to do in Kiev and agree very cheap.

[NorskKing]

I have been reading a lot of post lately about Kiev being not as good place as it was few years ago for mongering.

Many of you have discussed this very much (and thank you for your contribution and openness) and many have given reports that Kiev is not as cheap as before. Let us all consume the fact that it is in fact not as cheap as it was few years ago. Let us not discuss this anymore and take it as an obvious fact from now on.

But I think Kiev (I don't know other parts of Ukraine) is still comparable cheaper than any other country in Europe for many things (lets not talk about Maldova).

1) Erotic massages are still cheap (IMHO), they are everywhere in Kiev and the service is good. You can even get classic thai massage so cheap, get that stiffness out of your system for as low as 15 $ in some places.

2) oh my gosh booze is cheap, just don't drink them at super touristy clubs. I drank three bottles of Champagne in my apartment just because they were super cheap to buy in stores.

3) Hiring a female tour guides is still cheap, if you are travelling alone, spice up your getting to know Kiev (worst cast nothing will happen, you will still have good company.

I am not talking about escorts here, since this is now discussed enough, some ask way too high, some ask reasonably, some are ugly, some are OK, some scam you, some don't. All depends on how horny you go there and if you are thinking with your dick instead of your head. I do agree that the escort scene (pro, semi-pro, mamba) is little pampered and girls are now trying something that guys thinking with dicks are entertaining. But do not decide to come there just for the escort scene.

One last thing, If you are coming to Kiev, hoping that the escort scene is cheap, then you will be disappointed. There are so many other things to do. Why do you want to miss out on all that fun.