Kyiv

[Member #4722]

Great Mamba tutorial for newbies. Agree with everything you said! Some guys don't like to put in this kind of work but for me part of the thrill is in the chase.

[Hedonist]

Many thanks. Excellent report!

The sort of engagement I intended to present is simply typical of what is possible to sometimes find on mamba. Ru. The mamba website has undergone changes over the last few years, and what was true yesterday, may not be the same tomorrow. Nowadays there are many agencies lurking behind many of the profiles, especially the ones listing "looking for a sponsor". In the profile. But then again, many of the individual girls looking for a sponsor also list it in their profiles. So you need to judge who you are dealing with, when you receive their replies, and the nature of their ensuing conversation, or lack thereof.

The prices on mamba. Ru have been written about many times in this forum. My impression about the current status is that it is still possible to find girls that are happy with $100 for several hours (2-3 hours at least). And that a portion of the girls will only be happy with $150 for several hours. And yes there are some prima donna's who try to demand $200. And there are a small number who ask for $300, or even $400. The trick here is to get them to agree to enough time together, to bring down the unit price to a more reasonable number. For example, although there are girls in the nightclubs and on escort sites, for whom the sum of $300 is the rock bottom price they will agree to for two hours, if you get a mamba girl to agree to a whole night for $300, then you have a lot of hours to be with her, at least be able to fuck at night and in the morning, and your price per hour goes down significantly. $300 for 2 hours is a rate of $150/ hour. But $300 for 10 or 12 hours, including sex at least twice, can represent a much lower cost per sex event. You can drag out the sex each time for several hours, with oral sex both ways, Cuny and BBBJ, 69, and fucking different positions, with really no time limit, two hour or three hour sex session, as your own physical limitations dictate. And do it again in the morning, if you are capable. So $300 for a night like that, really isn't such a bad deal, especially if the girl is a real beauty. So think about what's included, before rejecting a $300 demand on mamba out of hand. Because if you can get a night such as described from it, it may be very worth it.

That being said, I usually first establish that the girl's demand for $300, is intended as the price for a night. Remember, that $300 is the average monthly salary for most in Kiev. So the girl is probably just throwing out this big number as a gamble, in the hopes that a dummy tourist will say yes. Don't be that dummy. If she wants $300, then she must give on the amount of time, and nothing less than all night, with sex again in the morning, makes any sense cost-wise. If she doesn't agree thatvher price is for all night, then pass on her. But once she agrees that $300 is her price for the whole night, then deflect that with the following approach, and say that a first date is not appropriate for an all night date, and it is more appropriate that your first meeting be for a short meeting of several hours. Then you are in a position to offer only a portion of the all night $300 price, for a session of several hours in the evening. In this way you may wind up with a $300 demand girl, agreeing to $150 for several hours in the evening for first date. Once you have fucked a girl the right way, and IF she likes what you did with her and enjoys sex with you, you may be able to negotiate better terms on repeat dates.

However, all this being said, the price range I feel is achievable on mamba, based upon my experience, is between $100 to $150 for 2 - 3 hours.

And let me tell you why this is better than other mongering destinations. Let's take the FKK clubs of Frankfurt Germany, for example. These are my favorite other places to monger. The price at Oase is 50 euro for half hour, which is 100 euro per hour. Add to that the entrance fee of around 70 euro. So if you contrast that with the prices possible in Kiev, you will see that Kiev is about HALF the price of the FKK clubs. In FKK club an hour is 100 euro plus entrance fee. In Kiev, if you got a girl for) 100 for two hours, the price is $50 per hour, which is half the price of the prices in the FKK. If you got a mamba girl for a few hours for $150, then if she only stays two hours, it works out to $75/ hour, which is around 2/3 the FKK price. And if the Kiev girl stays with you more than two hours, like three or more hours, then the price in Kiev is very much lower than in the FKK's. I know I'm not being exact because the euro and the dollar are not equivalent, and other fine tuning can be applied to this calculation. But the point remains essentially true. Kiev is a cheaper destination than even the vaunted FKK's and the level of beauty possible to attain in the Kiev girls is just as good as in the FKK's. Ukrainian hot girls versus Romanian hotties. Who is to say which is better? I love them both. But for unit price, Kiev is lower cost. So I decidedly do not dismiss Kiev as a mongering destination, because of the beauty there and the intrinsic value in it as a mongering destination. Kiev does require more effort to succeed on mamba, than going in to an FKK, where the naked hotties are all around you for the picking. But prices are better in Kiev.

Use your heads, and don't be deterred by the nay-sayers on this board.

LJ.

[Volpone]

Well done LilJoey. Good post that shows how much work is needed if you want to bang some real amateurs or non-pros girls.

Unfortunately I confirm the prices written here. This year I tried to get these prices lower with some new girls, very tough to bargain with them, nearly impossible.

In 2015 prices was around 1000-1500 UAH for 2 shots and around 2 hours with quite many girls on Mamba. Some girls agreed also for 800-1000 for 1 shot or one hour, but they usually prefered the other version. It's interesting to know that the haircut is still around 40-50 UAH, the taxi from the center to Borispol still around 250 UAH and the cleaning lady around 100-150 UAH. ONLY THE SERVICE FOR SEX WITH NON-PROS HAS RISEN A LOT. I can not imagine how high it will be in 2 years. We are going to end up paying 100 $ and more for 1 hour.

I would add to this excellent description, that it's important to chat and picking up some phone numbers before coming to Kiev. However don't think that your 10 or 20 phone numbers you collected will work when you are in the POOREST CAPITAL OF EUROPE. Some amateurs girls may change their mind when you are here or may not answer at all. They may call you on viber to see you in real and then they decide not to come. I hope you put your real photos on Mamba. They may also not come to your place, because they have enough sponsors, they don't need your help anymore or they just stop to do that activity for a while or for ever. I had about 10 new non-pros contacts before coming to Kiev this year, I met only two of them.

If you have pros contacts, they are more reliable, but be aware, that BBBJ is not included. That's an extra or some pros even don't do it. 69 might be included, but with BJ. (I am talking about the pros on Mamba, not the non-pros, the amateurs).

About the quality of girls, well, I would say most of them are just average, below average or a bit more than average, it means from 5 to 7 are most of the girls for this price: 100 $ for 2-3 hours. Once in a while you can get a 8, but really pretty girls tend to ask higher prices. Furthermore, as everyone knows here, they can work abroad now or they have other ways to trick the tourists and to get money without having sex.

Bargaining, getting the price down should be our main goal.

[LilJoey]

Good report, but I have to disagree with the part of Hot Girls in Kiev. Sorry, no agenda just speaking the facts. There are just not that many available anymore. As far as meeting girls on-line, that would take major time to find anything above a 6. If 99.5 of the profiles are fake, you are looking at several hours of work, at the minimum. Most guys just do not want to let other member know just how much time they are spending on this. Just not sure if the time is worth it, but I guess it works for you.

Strip Clubs are average at best in Kiev and expensive, but is an option.

Good idea about finishing your trip in Germany.

Good luck.

I am truly at a loss to understand why you have not been successful to find hot girls above a 6 in Kiev. Because my experience over the last years I have continued to visit Kiev every time I have a business trip to Europe has been just the opposite.

And I am now blessed with Contacts for so many hot girls to have sex with in Kiev, that it is even impossible for me to succeed in making time for even half of them each time I visit Kiev for a few days. So I end up having to blow off a lot of them saying that I have too many business meetings, or that I'm sick, or some other excuse, so they won't get too pissed at me, and tell them I will hope to see them on my next visit. Aside from my own limitations on how many hot girls I can fuck each day, I also want to leave some time for meeting new girls and fucking them. And all this Pussy has come to me from using mamba. Ru effectively.

And yes it is true, that in the few weeks before arriving in Kiev, you must spend time writing to different girls on mamba. Ru, in order to correspond with them, weed out the no good ones, get the girls' mobile numbers for Viber or Whatsapp if possible, and schedule meetings with them. But this time spent is definitely worth it IMHO.

Because the mamba profile pics are invariably fake, one step in the communication process must be to ask each girl to send her current and real photos.

Mamba use pointers.

For the sake of those of you struggling to use mamba to find hot girls in Kiev, let's review some basic pointers so that maybe you can get better results.

Mamba is a social website and has many users. In Kiev, a particular aspect of mamba is that girls looking for sponsors are using the site to find sponsors. As well, apartment brothels and escort agencies have also been using mamba to reach clients, because they became aware that many mongers are looking for P4P girls on mamba. This aspect of mamba having P4P girls on it is more pronounced on mamba in Kiev, and you won't find this phenomenon is many other locations in the world. But for Kiev it has been and remains a good resource for P4P.

Mamba has undergone changes over the years, but this only means that we must adapt ourselves and the manner in which we search for girls on the site. In the past girls looking for P4P clients simply wrote in their profiles that they are meeting with guys for material benefits, or some such language. Currently that is mostly not done, and P4P girls are putting in their profiles at the bottom the words "looking for a sponsor". They also have the option to simply leave that space blank. Or they can choose the option which says "not looking for a sponsor and not willing to become one".

I think you should not bother to send any message to girls who list the third option, as there seems to be no point. You can choose to limit your searches only to those girls who list "looking for sponsor" in their profiles. That way you already know you are dealing with a P4P girl, which is helpful in drafting the wording of your messages. But I have found that lately, there is a higher concentration of agencies in this category, and also there are many P4P girls on mamba who do not use the "looking for sponsor" tag in their profiles because they want the plausible deniability of a profile that is not obviously a girl looking for P4P. So the only category to avoid is the girls specifically writing "not looking for sponsor".

(The reason I don't focus only on the looking for sponsor category is that it is infested with agencies or apartment brothels. And the mentality of the persons operating these mamba profiles is infected with the stupidity of Eastern European thinking in dealing with a commercial enterprise. So they routinely will not want to communicate with anyone who is not already in Kiev, on the idea that they don't want to waste their time on anyone who isn't ready to immediately book an appointment. The concept of customer service and marketing / advertising, and developing a customer base has not yet filtered into their pre-soviet socialist mindset, and such capitalist concepts like customer service are a waste of time in their view. I guess they do not realize that there are many potential customers they could market themselves to, by indulging in some communication, who are foreign travelers coming to Kiev and want to have a good time. And so as soon as they perceive that you are not yet in Kiev, they will lose interest in communicating with you, or they may block you, instead of having the brains to cultivate you as a client, and secure an appointment from you. Also because they use multiple listings of profiles on mamba and repetitive listings of the same profiles and therefore they always find themselves in communication with the same customers who are going thru the profiles and writing to different girls whose profiles they like. So instead of simply sending their number again. They will block you, and turn a customer they already had, who had taken their number for use when in Kiev, into a non-customer who will no longer call them because they blocked him and appear to be uninterested in his business. Anyways, the stupidity of the way the agencies handle themselves on mamba is not my interest, only to make you aware of their behaviors so you can avoid. Therefore, do not be perturbed or worried that the profile of the really beautiful girl blocked you for no apparent reason after a polite message, because if there was only one or two photos, and a behavior like that, it is most likely an agency, and not a real girl, and they recognized that they communicated with you before. So now they block you, insuring that you will never become a customer of theirs. Just move on from such economic stupidity, and don't worry about it or get insulted by it.).

Your initial message should contain a polite compliment, a statement that you will be in Kiev for business on a relatively near date not more than a few weeks in the future, possibly a statement that you are frequently in Kiev for business which means you can be a repeat client if service is good, and your desire to meet the lovely lady. If your objective is to isolate those girls interested in P4P, you can do one of two things. You can state that you are happy to help a girl and be a sponsor, if she needs help. Or you can insert a dollar amount you offer for a meeting. I have never put a dollar amount in my initial message, but some mongers on this board do that, probably to shorten the process, since only P4P girls will answer, and only those girls interested in that amount will answer. The girls wanting a lot more will not answer. I don't do it that way, because I want to be able to interest also those girls who do not view themselves as prostitutes, and who want to posture themselves as interested in a real relationship, albeit one with financial help. For this reason, I prefer to posture myself, not as a sex tourist, but rather as a guy looking for a nice girl who wants to make him happy and be friends, and that if I am together with a girl in such an intimate friendship, that of course I will want to help her with her needs. It puts everything on a higher plane for the girl, casting her as a nice girl looking for a friendship with a guy who will care about her and help her. She retains her self respect, and I get her pussy. So I find it more helpful to approach it that way.

You must send an initial message to many girls, because the response rate is dismal, and most will not respond. But some will respond. Your goal now is to confirm if they would like to meet. If they say yes, then the next step is to secure their mobile number. Their number is essential because instant communication via mobile phone is necessary on the day of the meeting, to inform about any delays in arrival time, or to give her instructions on how to find the correct entrance door to a building, or to find each other on the street or a public place, if you initially meet there. It is a disaster waiting to happen, if you cannot reach each other as she is in transit to the meeting. So I never agree to meet with a girl who can't communicate via sms, or viber or whatsapp, and I can use my google translate app to write messages to them in Russian language. Some girls will be resistant to giving their number and will tell you that you can communicate on mamba, or that you should write to them after you arrive in Kiev. They should obviously give their number, because you might call them, and at least they have a chance of you calling them for an appointment. But they are stupid in a business sense. This stupidity is not productive, and as soon as I get such a response I realize I will probably not be able to set up an appointment with that girl. They go to the bottom of my list of possibles, to be tried only if I have some spare time in my fucking schedule in Kiev with more interested girls.

After getting a girl's mobile number for Viber or Whatsapp, you need to ask to see their real photos. You want to see both face and figure in a standing photo, optimally.

The girl may ask how much financial support or sponsorship you will give. Again, you need their real photos, because this in part, depends on the level of the girl's beauty. You can say that you can't say yet exactly, because you haven't met yet, and you don't know how she really looks, or how good she is to be with, or how long the meeting will be, etc. But you can mention a range of possible gifts, you might give to a beautiful girl.

My price range is $300 for the night, including night and morning sessions. I mention that when I want them to hear the larger number so they can Be more interested. But I always say that the first meeting should not be all night, and rather should be a shorter meeting of several hours (2-3 hrs) for which a gift of $100 is good, and if the girl is a great beauty the gift can be up to $150. You can try to be cheaper than this, if you want. But I think for me it is OK to give $100 for several hours, which is half or less than half of what I pay in German FKK's. Also, this is only a range of gift amounts before meeting and seeing the girl in real life.

In negotiating price, remember that if the girl is fixed on receiving a certain dollar amount as a minimum, you can still win if you get her to stay more time, for more sex, reducing the per hour rate. Often a girl wants a certain amount for an hour. But she cares more about the amount of dollars that will go into her pocketbook, than she cares about her time, especially if she is not a pro. Remember salaries in Kiev are between 4000-8000 uah per month. 4000 uah is $150 which is a month to half a month salary for many in Kiev. So she will not quibble about staying for 2 hours, or maybe even 3 hours for that amount.

Once you get a conversation on Viber or Whatsapp going with her, and get her photos, and discuss the gift amount for a short meeting of couple of hours, you can discuss date and time of an appointment at any juncture you want. It pays to stay in touch with a nice message periodically until your arrival.

You should develop as many such Viber or Whatsapp Contacts for meetings as you can before arrival in Kiev, at least 15 or 20 numbers, as some may not be reachable, or be away, when you want them. Also video calls are available on these apps, so you can really see them as they are. If the girl is willing to do a video call.

This process is not really hard to do, and is similar to the kind of time many travelers invest into researching what to do for tourism in a destination they are traveling to. This is not rocket science. So it should be possible for all of us dummies to get contacts with hot girls on mamba.

Good luck guys.

LJ.

[Volpone]

I see you don't have PM currently. So from relaxkiev I've got a few numbers for places that have multiple girls. I'm sure I could ask them to send a few girls over to choose from. But how would you get numbers to call for the apartments? I have my taxi take me there at the moment, I could ask for their number when I'm there I guess.

Easy. There are some websites mentionning phone numbers of many private flats in Kiev (and in the whole of Ukraine). Just read it, make a phone call, get the address. Once there you call again and she will tell you which "padiezd" to enter and the name of the apartment. That's what I did in Kiev and many times in Kharkiv.

[Rugan]

I don't waste time on travel to apartments, and I gamble with them babies coming over to my place for casting outside, in their own transport vehicle. Ask for 2-3-4 to deliver, take 1 or 2. This way sometimes they are students, and pay their own rent, and not agency's. Had better price to earnings ratio on average.

I see you don't have PM currently. So from relaxkiev I've got a few numbers for places that have multiple girls. I'm sure I could ask them to send a few girls over to choose from. But how would you get numbers to call for the apartments? I have my taxi take me there at the moment, I could ask for their number when I'm there I guess.

[Rugan]

So why sex in flats is so expensive in Ukraine?

I think that's a very interesting question and I'd be interested in the forum's opinion on that.

My assumption is that prices depend on the customer rather than the apartment. If that wasn't the case they would be pricing themselves way above what the local market could afford. They don't seem to be particularly geared up for foreigners. So I assume they do a lot of local business. If I was a local in Kiev and able to pay the kind of prices I've been charged in the apartments then I imagine I would have much better options. Given the general openness of Ukrainian girls to earn a bit of cash. If I was living there long term there is no way I would need to pay $150 for an uncovered BJ or pay per hour.

However, unless it's a well oiled operation, my instinct is that the prices in the flats are fixed and the same for everyone.

It would be interesting if someone living in Kyiv and experienced with the apartments vs someone travelling through compared the prices they paid in any given particular apartment.

[Rugan]

Ladies in Kiev are some of the best around the world in selling that make-believe. You seem to enjoy it, Rugan.

Yes, I certainly do. I don't tend to have sex with hookers because I find the experience a bit odd if the girl isn't in to it. I tend to find the girls who can suck cock for hours and just spend a lot of time with them. So, yes, the Ukrainian GFE approach I am really appreciating.

I don't waste time on travel to apartments, and I gamble with them babies coming over to my place for casting outside, in their own transport vehicle. Ask for 2-3-4 to deliver, take 1 or 2. This way sometimes they are students, and pay their own rent, and not agency's. Had better price to earnings ratio on average.

Interesting, I'll PM you.

If we go beyond apartment girls, someone wise here defined assessment criteria, that girlfriends use:

1. Does he love me?

2. Does he take care of me?

The latter is only in present tense. Neither "Did he? Nor "Will he? But "Does he- right now, or is time to move on to next?" A promise of bright future plays some significance, yet they are good mind readers.

Good tip, cheers.

[Horny Monger]

I prefer mongering in my US city over Germany any day. At least at home, I have the power of the review forums to find new girls eager to suck a dick.

One can never beat the home turf advantage!! Don't even mention all the money one can save on airfare and hotel!

[Horny Monger]

I disagree. The German scene is infested with nasty Romi. Few Uki have working rights in Germany. Even if you find them, they're likely spoiled. I prefer mongering in my US city over Germany any day. At least at home, I have the power of the review forums to find new girls eager to suck a dick. That includes Uki that never worked, unlike the worn out skanks in FKKs.

I think you are confused or didn't read his post carefully. He wasn't talking about only Germany's FKK but the whole scene in Germany and the whole western Europe.

[Riina]

Germany and other western European countries are definitely the way to go; top girls from all over the world incl. Ukraine are there. Why waste time and money.

I disagree. The German scene is infested with nasty Romi. Few Uki have working rights in Germany. Even if you find them, they're likely spoiled. I prefer mongering in my US city over Germany any day. At least at home, I have the power of the review forums to find new girls eager to suck a dick. That includes Uki that never worked, unlike the worn out skanks in FKKs.

[Uoykucf]

Agree with your post 100%, with the exception the girls are way better looking in Germany, there is no comparison. It is very hard and it takes time to find anything above a 6 Kiev In Germany and other destinations, they are all over the places. There is just not that many Top Level Girls in Kiev and there has not been for several years.

Now if your into girls coming and hanging out at your apartment, then Kiev, but that takes a lot of time and energy with all the scams.

Germany and other western European countries are definitely the way to go; top girls from all over the world incl. Ukraine are there. Why waste time and money.

[CallSign Papa]

How feasible is it to find a girl for sex after trying for a whole afternoon? Besides, what's the best strategy? Look for likely prostitutes and just make an offer in the first message, like "$X for the night, do you agree?

There are easily 500 posts in this thread alone devoted just to strategies for meeting girls on Mamba. Are you that dumb / lazy / obtuse that you can't use the search function?

[Uoykucf]

Good report, but I have to disagree with the part of Hot Girls in Kiev. Sorry, no agenda just speaking the facts. There are just not that many available anymore. As far as meeting girls on-line, that would take major time to find anything above a 6. If 99.5 of the profiles are fake, you are looking at several hours of work, at the minimum. Most guys just do not want to let other member know just how much time they are spending on this. Just not sure if the time is worth it, but I guess it works for you.

Strip Clubs are average at best in Kiev and expensive, but is an option.

Good idea about finishing your trip in Germany.

Good luck.

I'll say: "There are just not that many available anymore. As far as meeting girls on-line, that would take major time to find anything above a 6. ".

Everything you wrote is true to reality!

[Japansh]

Thursday, got text message from Mr. Zuma girl who was apologizing and begging me to gave her another chance told her I'm really busy will let her know if I will have time. Met around 5 pm with a girl from Zaporozhye, took her to Alaska for a nice dinner, she was really impressed and happy. Turns out she's former miss Ukraine contestant and model, I didn't believe her till she showed me her pictures and posters. She was in Kiev for few days and was heading to Istanbul where she works with local model agency. I offered to spend rest of the evening with me in my apartment and she asked 400 $. After some jokes and negotiations we agreed on 250 $. She had some restrictions such no cum in mouth and face and no anal besides these it was total GFE experience. Had 2 pops and sent her home.

I am in Kiev now, if anyone can help me connect with this girl. Form Zaporozhye I will be extremely grateful, drinks and dinner on me if you are in Kiev.