Kyiv

[Tomux 22]

Kiev dose not need to be expencive playground. But sure it cost. All is depended how you play your cards. As for my self I don't know a better place in Europe where I can go home with stunning girl even free of charge. And one thing is for sure, girls in UA know how to please a man. They basicly do anything for a man in bed, not to mention theyr looks and mental level. Thats whats kees me coming to Kiev, never ending adventure. What can be better then laying in bed with blondinka, drinking vodka and fucking. Tho my next adventure may happen in belarus or Usbekistan.
Going to Rio every night and taking a prostitute out without trying other options I will never understand. Its just simply burning money while supporting local mafia.

[SBTiger]

Based on all that I read I have not concluded that Kiev is easier (and definitely not cheaper) , at the end of the day we are only taking about P4P sex. I didn't read anywhere that you could pick girls on streets or bars or even mamba. (the below report by Climaxnow is another negative testament).

Yes, there are hot young women in many other genetically similar countries. But you cannot have them, dear monger. However, in Kiev, for a variety of reasons and factors, it is more possible to have sex with such young hot girls. That is the only point worth discussing for a monger.

I fully agree demand and supply setting the price. Supply seems to be low in Kiev- despite supposed abundance of woman. Many factors contribute to supply- Legal, cultural, economic system. Lots of Ukr woman would not prefer to work locally and prefer working outside of Ukr- for obvious reasons (In today's open world they can go out). You can find lot more Ukr woman in many outside places- incl Germany, Austria, Spain, etc etc (and at much cheaper prices). Have not been to Kiev so will not comment on local quality- I will take LJs word on quality. Kiev not being a major business or tourist or mongering location- demand definitely can not be high in Kiev. So higher prices in Kiev are simply lack of supply.

If the price is very low, it means that the market for that product will not sustain a price that is higher because the demand is not strong enough. In other words, if the price was raised too high for that market, no one would buy. There is so much supply. So some of those suppliers will lower their price and that will cause some to buy. The rules of supply and demand in a free market are economic laws of human behavior. The supply and demand of any commodity will find a point of equilibrium at the proper price. So the fact that the price is so low in Thailand can be a result of the fact that there is an over abundance of supply of hot young pussy for sex.

- Thailand survives (and thrives) only because of complete ease and cheapness, despite low quality girls. Hard to ever find a girl above 5 (Disclaimer- tastes and preferences vary).

As a mongerer- I look at ease, reliability, cost, legal issues:

- Cost- Just not of the girl- but also travel, hotel, etc etc. Understand hotels are not at all cheap in Kiev. Travel costs would vary, but Kiev not being a Int'l airline hub- for long distance travelers- It would always be a lot costlier. +/-$20 cost difference per hr of girl typically would not even matter if hotel is $50+/day more and airline is $300+ more, + local transportation, etc etc. The cost aspects of Kiev totally backfire when people would be expecting much lower costs and realize it is completely the other way around - so the reaction is WTF.

- Ease and reliability- Based on what I read I would rank Kiev much lower than many places. Mamba and websites seem to be extremely unreliable, you are left with these few high priced clubs. More ever, everyone prefers to go to places that they 'understand'- either language, culture, geo, or have first (or good 2nd hand) experience with area. Kiev is yet to build that critical mass of credible information. (LJ is working on it).

- Legal- I don't know if prostitution is legal in Kiev (someone can please clarify). But as a westerner- we are somewhat skeptical of overall legal system in FSU. (last thing we want to end up is some silly legal situation).

Demand / Supply- Places that are 'easier' there would be great demand, supply will come along (from all over). Overall prices often are much lower, also better quality and variety- with girls and brothels actually making more money (volume). FKKs and brothels in Spain etc are very easy examples - great service, variety, quality, overall environment and experience.

I do respect LJs views and can see where he is coming from- and admire his zeal. But in my situation (overall) I have a somewhat different take. I wish I was nearby and could utilize LJs help to settle all this first hand

I don't know the correct analogy to settle all this- 'distant hills are green', 'fools gold', 'whatever floats your boat',.., but nevertheless healthy and informative debate. Monger on...

my 2 cents

[Kirch]

Radio Hall is still on my to do list. Every time I was entering or leaving Mandarin I noticed all those beautiful girls outside waiting for taxi or entrance. It looks like only local people go there but I guess it's worth a try.

It's right beside Mandarin and the Mandarin restaurant. So close that when you get out of the taxi the doormen will ask you what you're looking for and direct you to the right door.

I was at Mandarin on Saturday. Good number of people there, dancers were 6-8, not as good as what I've seen there before.

When leaving the club around 1am, there was an incredible mass of people around Radio Hall I assume waiting to get in. And yes, it was local-local-local young men and young girls. I'd say 25 and under crowd. But there had to be like 200 people outside waiting to get in. Anyway you can go to Mandarin and then just eyeball the situation over there but I think it's probably going to be very drunk. The drunk 25 year olds screaming at each other on Kreshatik is about all I want to deal with. I don't want to be packed into a club with them with that kind of density, and given international "club" standards I'm always worried in this kind of situation what happens with a fire, etc.

If you're under 30 though you could probably go in there and have fun, it reminded me of a place in Minsk where people were friendly and not eyeballing you like you were out of place though you obviously were.

[Kirch]

Totally agree! I was first time in Russia 1999. St Petesburg and Moscow full of stunning girls want to have sex and they did like they are your girlfriend. May be they asked for some money next morning and some didn't even. Those good old times are over! I guess you have to go to smaller cities but (as posted here thousend times) you have to speak Russian! But on the other side I remember Saint Peterburg 15 years ago meeting girls on the street when I was trying to find my way home to the Hotel late at night. We talked in sign language and had fun though. For myself, I adapted to the present time and be ok with what I have in Kiev. That's why I go to Rio, I ask the manager about 20 times every evening to send a girl to my sofa in order to get to know her. And I only take the onces that really like me or they are so stunning that at least it is an optic f.

I found Kiev to be a disappointment this year. Just could not find hot sex. It felt like the days before the internet review forums where it was a struggle to find a quality prostitute. It's not a big deal to loose a $100 on a poor performer but it will hurt if the girl is $200 plus and she provides bad service.

Anybody care to post a small list of other Ukraine cities that are cheaper and do not cross the line into shit hole?

[Climaxnow]

If you're under 30 though you could probably go in there and have fun, it reminded me of a place in Minsk where people were friendly and not eyeballing you like you were out of place though you obviously were.

The nightclubs were the other half of my "it was ok" trip. I either felt too old (Indigo, Arena) , tagged a monger by door person (decadence, skybar) , or contributed to the dick fiesta (D'Lux). No more the day of many girls waiting in face control. Only places comfortable were the three main prostitute bars. Vodka Bar, Shooters, and Caribbean.

Prostitute bar does not mean like Moscow Night Flight. Most of the women in these places would sleep for money if you have some game and met their criteria.

[Climaxnow]

I found Kiev to be a disappointment this year. Just could not find hot sex. It felt like the days before the internet review forums where it was a struggle to find a quality prostitute. It's not a big deal to loose a $100 on a poor performer but it will hurt if the girl is $200 plus and she provides bad service.

Anybody care to post a small list of other Ukraine cities that are cheaper and do not cross the line into shit hole?

[Protocol]

Anybody know anything about the nightclub Disco Radio Hall. I think its out of the center. I browsed the photo gallery and its packed with lots of hotties. Unfortunately, it is also packed with local guys. Seems to be the place where girls go to be out of sight of foreigners. Is it worth a trip? Safe?

It's right beside Mandarin and the Mandarin restaurant. So close that when you get out of the taxi the doormen will ask you what you're looking for and direct you to the right door.

I was at Mandarin on Saturday. Good number of people there, dancers were 6-8, not as good as what I've seen there before.

When leaving the club around 1am, there was an incredible mass of people around Radio Hall I assume waiting to get in. And yes, it was local-local-local young men and young girls. I'd say 25 and under crowd. But there had to be like 200 people outside waiting to get in. Anyway you can go to Mandarin and then just eyeball the situation over there but I think it's probably going to be very drunk. The drunk 25 year olds screaming at each other on Kreshatik is about all I want to deal with. I don't want to be packed into a club with them with that kind of density, and given international "club" standards I'm always worried in this kind of situation what happens with a fire, etc.

If you're under 30 though you could probably go in there and have fun, it reminded me of a place in Minsk where people were friendly and not eyeballing you like you were out of place though you obviously were.

[Chazman1]

Looking for a wingman in Kiev. Anyone in town? Here for 4 days. PM me.

Cheers

[LilJoey]

That you shall find out for yourself, my friend.

Looks like you're a face man. I tend to look at beauty on an overall level, that is face and body together.

Only talking about faces: Below is just IMHO.

This is all on a general level.

I do agree that more Ukrainian girls tend to have beautiful face. Actually, more precisely is that Ukrainian female faces have more of the desirable features of a beautiful western European female look. Some Czech girls' faces have the same features of a beautiful western European female look, also. Generally, Czech girls have the EE / Czech look and are slim. Face-wise, Polish girls in general look less attractive than the Czechs overall. Many Russian girls have beautiful faces too; thus face-wise look better than the Czechs and Poles. Personally, I don't care for Romania and Bulgaria (darker, whether hot or not) ; so I haven't been there yet.

If you really want high density of beauty, go to Hollywood California, especially at night in the hot clubs; they're loads of them!

Why are you and Global Surfer so exercised over pinpointing where on the globe the higher female beauty density might be? Milan1's statements remain accurate, despite all that you have written. He wrote:

You missed a major point: The density of beautiful women is nowhere in Europe (or even the world) higher than in Kiev. For the taste of a common Western monger, Ukrainian women should appear by far more attractive than Thai girls. In addition, girls from Thailand are usually quite passive, where Ukrainian semi-pros from Mamba or discos are more pro-active.

Let's examine these statements one by one. He wrote,"The density of beautiful women is nowhere in Europe (or even the world) higher than in Kiev." This is language commonly used in advertising products, and indeed is calculated to be slightly deceptive to the consumer who is not paying attention to the words. But an intelligent person knows that there is a difference between the statement "Kiev has the highest beauty density" and the statement "no where else has a higher beauty density than Kiev." Now put on your thinking caps, gentlemen, and learn to improve your reading comprehension, and understand the meaning of words.

So the fact that other countries like Russia, Belarus, Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, Czech Republic, Slovak Republic, Hungary etc. All share the same EE genetic heritage of Ukrainian women, and many hot women abound in all these countries, is a truth that no one is debating. Milan1 merely stated than no where else is better than Kiev. In other words, Kiev is at the top level in this aspect. But yes, everyone concedes there are also hot women elsewhere. All your words to establish this are not necessary, since no one said otherwise.

And it also depends very much on which cross-section of the population you observe and examine. If you want to see "hot body" and "beautiful", go look at the girls from ages 18 to mid-20's that are going out to nightclubs on a weekend. There you will see, in whatever country you are doing this, the best and the most good looking cross-section of the female population of that society. They are mostly still slim and skinny at that age, and the natural shape that their genetic heritage passed on to them is there for you to examine in all it's glory. So of course, at our age as mongers, when we behold the abundance of girls who are young, hot and beautiful, in the nightclubs of every society, it will make our heads spin and our loins yearn for times past, whether it is in L. A. Or in NYC or London, Paris, Amsterdam, Vienna, Berlin, Warsaw, Moscow or Kiev etc. Hot girls are hot girls in every locale.

The more important point you boys are glossing over and not touching on, is that in a place like Kiev it is possible to have both a p4p sex experience, as well as even a freebie sex experience, with many more of these hot young girls, than you could have in other places. Yes, there are hot young women in many other genetically similar countries. But you cannot have them, dear monger. However, in Kiev, for a variety of reasons and factors, it is more possible to have sex with such young hot girls. That is the only point worth discussing for a monger.

The only other statement made by Milan1 that I want to comment on is his statement,"For the taste of a common Western monger, Ukrainian women should appear by far more attractive than Thai girls." I think this is obviously true. If you really think that most Western European men prefer the type of beauty typical of Asian looking Thai women to the type of beauty personified by EE beauties to be found in places like Ukraine, then the only way to settle such a matter is to conduct a poll. But the price of sex in each locale should tell you something. If the price is very low, it means that the market for that product will not sustain a price that is higher because the demand is not strong enough. In other words, if the price was raised too high for that market, no one would buy. There is so much supply. So some of those suppliers will lower their price and that will cause some to buy. The rules of supply and demand in a free market are economic laws of human behavior. The supply and demand of any commodity will find a point of equilibrium at the proper price. So the fact that the price is so low in Thailand can be a result of the fact that there is an over abundance of supply of hot young pussy for sex. But it also can partly be a factor of the level of demand for that type of pussy, with the beauty characteristics of such pussy playing an important role in creating that demand. So the fact that Ukrainian pussy costs more than Thai pussy, may create an inference as to the way men generally regard the beauty level of each type of pussy. It's not the strongest argument, because there are many other factors that could influence the price of Thai pussy aside from beauty, but it is an inference one can make. I personally agree with Milan1 that EE beauty is more attractive to me than other types of beauty. But it is subjective. And I believe that most Western men would see things the way I do. But it is really a moot point. Those who like the look of Thai women more than they like EE women from Kiev, will simply go to Thailand to monger, and will write on the Thai thread how much they like it. And those who enjoy Kiev more, will monger here and write about it on this thread. What does praising the beauty of Thai women on a Kiev thread accomplish? It doesn't change my opinion of what I consider beautiful subjectively. You will find no converts here. The only factor that may attract some is the low prices, but as for beauty, a Kiev monger knows where it's at already.

My own two cents.

LJ

[Horny Monger]

In which certain western European capitals exactly have you seen as many beautifull women in the streets as in Kiev? I'm very curious, maybe I have missed something LOL. As for density of women, it is true that in Ukraine the density of beautiful is more than most (IMHO) countries in EE (and most probably in the world). I have been to most of the countries, including chzech republic and Slovakia (hot girls, but not as many beautifull faces as in Ukraine, not even close) , Poland (hotter girls than in Chzech republic but less than Ukraine) , Romania and Bulgaria (darker, but not as hot) , Russia (a lot of beauties, but not so many as in Ukraine-even many Russians admit that Ukrainian women are more beautiful than Russian. Is it true that beauty is in the eyes of beholder and more exactly in the eyes of the beer beholder, and its true for all places in the world.

That you shall find out for yourself, my friend.

Looks like you're a face man. I tend to look at beauty on an overall level, that is face and body together.

Only talking about faces: Below is just IMHO.

This is all on a general level.
I do agree that more Ukrainian girls tend to have beautiful face. Actually, more precisely is that Ukrainian female faces have more of the desirable features of a beautiful western European female look. Some Czech girls' faces have the same features of a beautiful western European female look, also. Generally, Czech girls have the EE / Czech look and are slim. Face-wise, Polish girls in general look less attractive than the Czechs overall. Many Russian girls have beautiful faces too; thus face-wise look better than the Czechs and Poles. Personally, I don't care for Romania and Bulgaria (darker, whether hot or not) ; so I haven't been there yet.

If you really want high density of beauty, go to Hollywood California, especially at night in the hot clubs; they're loads of them!

[Ronaldinjo]

More accurately, beauty is in the eyes of the beer holder.

Global Surfer is right the density of beautiful woman is irrelevant. There are beauitful women there but not any more than other major EE capitals or certain western european capitals. Actually, I was disappointed after all the hypes on this board.

Like I said, I've been in Kiev when the weather's nice and warm and sat on the benches on Kreschatik street many times, where many women walked by with little clothing, but I tell you the number of beautiful women sighted by members of this board are greatly exaggerated. Maybe in the darkness of the night after a couple of beers and drinks, suddenly many more beautiful women appear before mongers' eyes. As they said, beauty is in the eyes of the beer holder. LOL.

In which certain western European capitals exactly have you seen as many beautifull women in the streets as in Kiev? I'm very curious, maybe I have missed something LOL. As for density of women, it is true that in Ukraine the density of beautiful is more than most (IMHO) countries in EE (and most probably in the world). I have been to most of the countries, including chzech republic and Slovakia (hot girls, but not as many beautifull faces as in Ukraine, not even close) , Poland (hotter girls than in Chzech republic but less than Ukraine) , Romania and Bulgaria (darker, but not as hot) , Russia (a lot of beauties, but not so many as in Ukraine-even many Russians admit that Ukrainian women are more beautiful than Russian. Is it true that beauty is in the eyes of beholder and more exactly in the eyes of the beer beholder, and its true for all places in the world.

[Horny Monger]

Beauty is in the eyes of beholder.

In my experience, may Europeans prefer Filipina or Thais, whereas may Asian would prefer European.

Passive or active is also relative. Common complaint about CIS is that they rarely stay overnight.

Excluding top-model, escort-model and mamba, Ukrainian women are cheaper in Dubai / Bangkok / KL thank in Ukraine.

Ukraine, Belorussia, Poland, Check and Russian Slavs are ethnically same people hence density of beautiful woman is irrelevant.

One relevant thing I forgot to mention was the expensive hotels in Kiev.

I am not trying to promote Thailand over Ukraine but simply try to state the fact that different people have different choices.

More accurately, beauty is in the eyes of the beer holder.

Global Surfer is right the density of beautiful woman is irrelevant. There are beauitful women there but not any more than other major EE capitals or certain western european capitals. Actually, I was disappointed after all the hypes on this board.

Like I said, I've been in Kiev when the weather's nice and warm and sat on the benches on Kreschatik street many times, where many women walked by with little clothing, but I tell you the number of beautiful women sighted by members of this board are greatly exaggerated. Maybe in the darkness of the night after a couple of beers and drinks, suddenly many more beautiful women appear before mongers' eyes. As they said, beauty is in the eyes of the beer holder. LOL.

[Horny Monger]

You missed a major point: The density of beautiful women is nowhere in Europe (or even the world) higher than in Kiev. For the taste of a common Western monger, Ukrainian women should appear by far more attractive than Thai girls. In addition, girls from Thailand are usually quite passive, where Ukrainian semi-pros from Mamba or discos are more pro-active.

There we go again.

Oh, really? I've been in Kiev when the weather's nice and warm and sat on the benches on Kreschatik street many times, where many women walked by with little clothing, but I tell you the number of beautiful women sighted by members of this board are greatly exaggerated. There are beauitful women there but not any more than other major EE capitals or certain western european capitals. Actually, I was disappointed after all the hypes on this board. Maybe in the darkness of the night after a couple of beers and drinks, suddenly many more beautiful women appear before mongers' eyes. As they said, beauty is in the eyes of the beer holder. LOL.

However, this I do agree with Milan1: "Ukrainian women should appear by far more attractive than Thai girls." But then again in the darkness of the night, beauty is in the eyes of the beer holder. So who knows after enough beers and drinks.

[Global Surfer]

Thanks for the response.

I have always wanted to visit EE. But strangely, there are some countries / cities for which the forums consistently post reports or discussions about STDs, or something going around. The Phillipines is numero uno in that regard. I also noted Kiev as another. Just curious.

And BTW, was the gonorrhea the drug resistent type? Or did the penicillin clear it up?

STDs in almost all countries are under reported.

It should be of concern only if you are planning not to use condom.

In the presence of condom your risk is reduced as condom burst rates is around 1. 5 to 3%

The real risk, in my opinion, is HIV, Hepatitis B and Hepatitis C.

You can get vaccination against Hepatitis B only.

Sub-Saharan Africa has the highest rate of HIV only to be followed by Central and South Africa.

Ukraine has highest rate in Europe

[Global Surfer]

Here is link to list of Victoria Secret Models of last decades.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_von_Victoria

%E2%80%99s-Secret-Models.

Do you know how many of same are Thai? Yes. Zero.

So, one must have a very ideosyncratic taste to prefer Thai over Eastern European women.

It's true, Thai stay more likely overnight, but just because the alternative would be to sleep in a tiny flat without AC and 3 room mates, and most of them are masters in turning away from you.

You can rarely find any EE women in Thailand, and if there are definitely not cheaper than in Kiev.

Of course density matters, the price is the equilibration between demand and offer.

It is true, Kiev hotels are expensive, but that can be circumvented by appartments.

You can find Ukrainian, Russian, Kazak, Uzbek, Columbians and Africans in Thailand.

For beuty just look at the result of Miss World contest and you would realize how many Ukriaians (Slavik) has won