Kyiv

[CallSign Papa]

I travel ther usually during the summer, I wear sunglasses so its not easy for anyone on the streets to see that I'm not ukrainain.

Trust me, you might think you blend in, but ukrainians can spot you as a foreigner with one glance, from your hair to your shoes. Even your sunglasses will give you away. And I love Ukraine and think most Ukrainians are a good bunch, but I sure wouldn't want to look like one.

[AColonizer]

my posts are about reality only. we should teach by masters. all the rest people are just sillies pretending to be mongers. but money is not the first problem. the first problem is the mindset. the difference between expensive bad results and exceptional cheap results is just the mindset. that difference is very real!

moreover, the sex is an art, and that is not (condomed) vaginal sex only. it is like to drive a car by the first and the second speed (manual change) , that is not a correct drive indeed! and if men want just vaginal sex, then they can get easy and cheap by any woman, with no expensive travels and fetishistic payments.

i know what you are saying and i agree in small amount, in an ideal world. but it's not ideal.

i have to juggle 3 gf, one very serious. so often i have to blame work and send gf home before being left with a window of opportunity around 2300 or later. going to sauna or parlour is often not possible then. calling previous conquests is possible, but likely not producing instant results. topmodals et al in the shady website world is likely to send shit girl (s) at that time of night and you may have to wait an hour even if you are very firm on the phone when you call.

really, clubs are convenient way of seeing a lot of girs and getting a take-out very quickly.

i can go into a club and maybe pull a freebie but never within 45 minutes to be able to leave with her.

and saying all p4p girls do anal and swallow is just wrong. everyone knows this.

incidentally i don't give a monkeys' wotsits if the girl swallows or not, as long as she takes it in her mouth. i don't need the spunk back so she can spit away.

and not everyone likes anal. only very occasionally do i indulge in back door action.

[Muddy7]

I really want to go to KIev but am a bit worried since I can't speak Russian, How safe is it if you don't speak the language?

I have traveled to Kiev there 7 times, no major problems.

Only one minor issue I had in my first trip, the same old cash on the ground do you want to split it.

I travel ther usually during the summer, I wear sunglasses so its not easy for anyone on the streets to see that I'm not ukrainain.

I have been to several smaller cities too like odessa, nikolaev, sumy, dnepropetrovsk, kharkov, no problems at all

[Member #4276]

OK. This sex forum and I don't want to discuss this issue anymore!

[Member #4276]

Your English is terrible for a Harvard man! (smiley)

Another thing is that, If you want to prepare a case in any business subject don't hesitate, tell me and I will send you my case analysis (SMILEY!)

But, you will also prepare. OK? And we will compare whose English is terrible (SMILEY!).

[Member #4276]

Your English is terrible for a Harvard man! (smiley)

Send me your e-mail adress and will send you my scanned diploma!

[LilJoey]

If Turkey's currency would be Euro, yes these prices are normal. But we use Turkish Liras. 1 € = 2, 3 TL. And minimum wage in Turkey is €356 / month (Even in sunk Greece is €600). How can we pay such high prices like €250 / h? European tourist pay this money when they come to Turkey. Lets say 1TL = 1€. Do you want to pay 575€/h to escorts in European countries (250€ = 575TL)? But €100 is normal for you right? 100 TL is also normal for us. Thats why I am telling 10 years ago, I was able to get $100 / night in Kiev. Now, I could not afford to go to Kiev.

All in all, do not increase the prices in Ukraine. It will be good for all of us. I am working in Istanbul and have a MBA degree from HARVARD (1998 Graduate). But I earn only 700€/month. Don't laugh. You, all Europeans, fucked our economy. But nothing to do.

Please negotiate with the girls to decrease the costs.

According to www.xe.com The rate of exchange for Turkish Lira (TRY) is (800 UAH/$100 USD = 176 TRY. 600 UAH/$75 USD = 132 TRY. 400 UAH/$50 = 88 TRY. The $400 USD that one would spend to take out a Rio strip club girl is 706 TRY.

You think it's only Europeans spending money in Turkey? Don't be naive. There are plenty of very wealthy Turkish men who adore the blonde and gorgeous pussy from Ukraine and Russia and will pay those high prices in Ankara, Istanbul, and Anatalya. Did you look at the links to the websites I provided in my previousl post? The girls look unbelievably good. As well, there are many Arabs and Africans with money to blow in their pockets who come to Turkey and who place a high value on the fair skinned beauties from the EE countries, and are willing to pay for it. No, it's not the guys in your sector of the hard working population. It's oligarchs and tycoons from government, big business and mafia types who are spending those amounts of Euros on the high priced escorts. That's why these girls travel to places like Turkey, Dubai and Cairo. Same in Ukraine. Or Bucharest. There are local men with lots of money. In Kiev, the majority of the men who are customers any given night in Rio strip club are local Ukrainians or Russian men who are from the higher economic echelons.

But don't despair. Because there are lower priced girls in places like Kiev, you might succeed in getting a pretty girl for 100 Turkish Lira (TRY) (around $56 USD) from mamba. Ru or other websites. Or try in Poland where prices are also pretty low. Or you might save up a little and go to the FKK's in Germany where many of your young Turkish countrymen on sport-fucking expeditions are to be seen in large numbers cavorting with the girls there.

Everyone negotiates for the lower price when possible. But part of negotiating hard, is being prepared to walk away, and often-times doing so. Then the message gets across. However, when a guy is in Kiev for a very short period, he can only press that approach to a certain point, because he doesn't want to go home empty-handed. So it comes out that he will agree to the best price he can get within the time alotted for the negotiations. That's just the dynamics of the negotiation.

So you are free to come to Kiev and try your hand at negotiating as best you can, and only agreeing on the price you want. There are many others who feel the same way as you do, and they negotiate hard and don't pay high prices in Kiev. Their results may vary from the guys who pay the higher prices, but they get what they want in the end also.

There is a low end market as well as a high end market, as in many places. The girls who have the looks for it, of course, want to stay in the high end market. It's their economic choice. That's why most of the really hot girls stay independent and work in the nightclubs as free agents asking the highest prices they can. They only come down in price when there are no takers and the night is almost over. In a situation like Rio strip club there really is no negotiation and you will have to pay the stated price as a premium in return for the ease and efficiency of choice and the high level of selection.

But there are lots of girls in Ukraine who are not hardened professional WG's only looking for high end customers. There are plenty on non--pro or semi--pro girls who would appreciate a little entertainment, and won't cost you a bundle. Also, in the population there are many, many beauties. And they will give a chance to guys much older than them. So it is worth it to try in a place like Kiev to get hot girls for free or for a lower price, because it is possible to succeed at this with effort.

[Climaxnow]

If Turkey's currency would be Euro, yes these prices are normal. But we use Turkish Liras. 1 € = 2, 3 TL. And minimum wage in Turkey is €356 / month (Even in sunk Greece is €600). How can we pay such high prices like €250 / h? European tourist pay this money when they come to Turkey. Lets say 1TL = 1€. Do you want to pay 575€/h to escorts in European countries (250€ = 575TL)? But €100 is normal for you right? 100 TL is also normal for us. Thats why I am telling 10 years ago, I was able to get $100 / night in Kiev. Now, I could not afford to go to Kiev.

All in all, do not increase the prices in Ukraine. It will be good for all of us. I am working in Istanbul and have a MBA degree from HARVARD (1998 Graduate). But I earn only 700€/month. Don't laugh. You, all Europeans, fucked our economy. But nothing to do.

Please negotiate with the girls to decrease the costs.

Your English is terrible for a Harvard man! (smiley)

[CheekyDancer]

T very GF.

Very cold in Kiev but in day time is sunny. Night time very hard weather. I met already 4 girls. 3 from Mamaba first one, beautiful 9 with green eyes good sex but not very GFE. Covered BJ. Second one is tall blonde 9 a very GFE bbj cim. Third one I met last year in Caribean. I bed her last night after a long way. A 10 super beautiful well educated and interesting girl. I brought her some gifts with me. And I gave her $ to make some shopping. Today a very GFE 8 girl bbj Cim and a strong anal.

Good time until now and no surprises. I think it is a low season for girls so it is a chance to find beautiful girls with reasonable prices. Usually I don't pay more than 100 $ may be extra for anal if requested.

Usually I look the semi pro or normal profiles and not the pink ones with hight green indicator of chatting on Mamba (a probable agency or Salon). Photos will follow after I go back home.

Are you still here in Kiev. I am here until the 18th. I came to meet a freebie from Mamba. I am getting the impression it could be a no go. I will know more after I meet her again this afternoon. If its a non starter I am up for a few beers and some mongering advice on Kiev as I am somewhat of a Newbie. I just spent a few days in Stuttgart at FKK Paradise which was a blast.

[Member #4276]

If Turkey's currency would be Euro, yes these prices are normal. But we use Turkish Liras. 1 € = 2, 3 TL. And minimum wage in Turkey is €356 / month (Even in sunk Greece is €600). How can we pay such high prices like €250 / h? European tourist pay this money when they come to Turkey. Lets say 1TL = 1€. Do you want to pay 575€/h to escorts in European countries (250€ = 575TL)? But €100 is normal for you right? 100 TL is also normal for us. Thats why I am telling 10 years ago, I was able to get $100 / night in Kiev. Now, I could not afford to go to Kiev.

All in all, do not increase the prices in Ukraine. It will be good for all of us. I am working in Istanbul and have a MBA degree from HARVARD (1998 Graduate). But I earn only 700€/month. Don't laugh. You, all Europeans, fucked our economy. But nothing to do.

Please negotiate with the girls to decrease the costs.

[LilJoey]

I agree some points of Acolnizer. $300 / night is still expensive. Rich Americans and Europeans did this. They offer $300 / h so prices getting increased.

Think about I am from Turkey, but when we compare with default Greece, still I cannot afford Kiev girls. However. 10 years ago, yeah I can book a girl very cheap prices like 100$/night.

Your opinion is also not based on the actual facts. These Russian and Ukrainian girls are being spoiled more by rich Turks in your own country. Why don't you take a look at the links for these EE girls traveling into Turkey for the high 250 Euro / hour to 350 Euro / hour rates being paid to them in Turkey. See http://openadultdirectory.com/escorts/Turkey/

A rate of 100 Euro / hour, factually is a base rate (+- a few euro) in many European countries, although locals can sometimes beat such a price. It's worth quoting from my first post to put some perspective on this."Consider the following rates from all over Europe. The fixed rate for an hour of time in the Frankfurt FKK's is 100 Euro, but the entrance fee of 75 Euro must be considered and factored into the costs too. Assuming many guys will do at least three girls during a visit, if you spend three hours with three girls at the FKK, for example, your net rate is $125 Euro per girl / hour at the FKK. Budapest prices with girls from websites like www.redzone.hu Or www.rosszlanyok.hu, after adding to the basic fee, any fees for extras to get GFE type services, came out to around 25, 000 HUF a few years ago which was around 100 Euro. Vienna escort agency rates can be found in the range of 150 Euro for the first hour and 110 Euro for the subsequent hours. The various Laufhaus' in Vienna have hourly rates not too different, as one can determine from the abundant postings on the kontaktbazar. At. The Vienna FKK Goldentime has slightly higher rates of 60 Euro per half hour, or 120 Euro / hr. Plus entrance fee. In Madrid at Flowers Park, the prices asked recently were 150 Euro / hr which can be negotiated down to 110 Euro or maybe 100 Euro. I had a one night stopover there facing the prospect of no more play for a while after that, so I splurged and did a 1. 5 hr duo there for 150 Euro each girl, which equals a rate of 100 Euro / hr for each girl. In Warsaw on odloty. Pl the prices seem to be 300 zloty / hr (around $100 USD) or 200 zloty / hr (around $66 USD). I haven't investigated everywhere, but the center of gravity for prices in Eastern Europe seems to be in the 100 Euro / hour – 130 euro / hour range."

Therefore, a rate of $100 USD / hour in Kiev for a professional WG who is a 8 to 10, is lower than 100 Euro / hour and is not a bad price in comparison to what is going on in the rest of Europe. And as we know, in Kiev, it is possible to get girls for $75 / hour or even $50 / hour. However, it is unlikely that they will be as hot at the girls one can take out of Rio strip club for the $100 / hour rate (3 hour minimum). Take a look at the fat, ugly slobs offering themselves for 300 UAH / hour on top-modals. Com and you will get the idea. Perhaps some mongers delight in having sex with a fat or ugly Ukrainian woman for 300 UAH / hour (about $38) , but guys like TheKnight are not interested in such women. So if he gets a truly hot girl for $300 for the whole night, you need to divide that sum by the actual number of hours to realize the truly low rate he paid. For example, if she was with him even for 6 hours, it means his effective net rate was $50 / hour, which is pretty low. It is possible to do even better than that with semi-pros who once they like you will stay for significantly longer time without commensurate increase of money requested. Not so with the more professional WG's who always look at the clock in terms of their services. From the perspective of the foregoing actual realities, I'd say $300 for a whole night for a hot girl on an 8 to 10 level, is a home run.

What's the point of bemoaning how things are now, based on where they were 10 or 20 years ago?

LJ

[Member #4276]

I agree some points of Acolnizer. $300 / night is still expensive. Rich Americans and Europeans did this. They offer $300 / h so prices getting increased.

Think about I am from Turkey, but when we compare with default Greece, still I cannot afford Kiev girls. However. 10 years ago, yeah I can book a girl very cheap prices like 100$/night.

[TheKnight]

I should repeat my last post. Mongers can find young, beautiful, piggish and smart girl for cheap, it is not easy, but you can (WE CAN motto).

That's only a waste of money and a spoiled of a country, the payment of any sum to girls (and to their pimps / lovers) , you know well that's the best way Ukrainian women become like Western women.

Moreover, for what? For just pussy and oral with condom, no french kisses,"no no you are hurting me" comedy? No. 300$/overnight are absolutely absurd. At least anal sex and swallow sperm. All (but actually all) sex providers are used anal sex and swallow sperm. When a girl denies that, she is trying to fraud my brain before of my wallet!

Therefore it is wise to be cynical and humble. OK, a one-week holiday is not enough. Therefore it is necessary to prepare a day-by-day program. It is necessary to think a lot as being at war: money against sex. Plan A, B and C. All means are good to get the wanted result. If this time was not good, then we try to understand what was wrong. And always reduce the loss of money. Kiev is funny also without P4P.

N. B. When a penis needs to ejaculate, a lot of girls get a high score.

I know what you are saying and I agree in small amount, in an ideal world. But it's not ideal.

I have to juggle 3 GF, one very serious. So often I have to blame work and send GF home before being left with a window of opportunity around 2300 or later. Going to sauna or parlour is often not possible then. Calling previous conquests is possible, but likely not producing instant results. TopModals et al in the shady website world is likely to send shit girl (s) at that time of night and you may have to wait an hour even if you are very firm on the phone when you call.

Really, clubs are convenient way of seeing a lot of girs and getting a take-out very quickly.

I can go into a club and maybe pull a freebie but never within 45 minutes to be able to leave with her.

And saying all P4P girls do anal and swallow is just wrong. Everyone knows this.

Incidentally I don't give a monkeys' wotsits if the girl swallows or not, as long as she takes it in her mouth. I don't need the spunk back so she can spit away.

And not everyone likes anal. Only very occasionally do I indulge in back door action.

[AColonizer]

I should repeat my last post. Mongers can find young, beautiful, piggish and smart girl for cheap, it is not easy, but you can (WE CAN motto).

That's only a waste of money and a spoiled of a country, the payment of any sum to girls (and to their pimps / lovers) , you know well that's the best way Ukrainian women become like Western women.

Moreover, for what? For just pussy and oral with condom, no french kisses,"no no you are hurting me" comedy? No. 300$/overnight are absolutely absurd. At least anal sex and swallow sperm. All (but actually all) sex providers are used anal sex and swallow sperm. When a girl denies that, she is trying to fraud my brain before of my wallet!

Therefore it is wise to be cynical and humble. OK, a one-week holiday is not enough. Therefore it is necessary to prepare a day-by-day program. It is necessary to think a lot as being at war: money against sex. Plan A, B and C. All means are good to get the wanted result. If this time was not good, then we try to understand what was wrong. And always reduce the loss of money. Kiev is funny also without P4P.

N. B. When a penis needs to ejaculate, a lot of girls get a high score.

I don't mean to be smart but $300/400 for a girl that stays overnight seems fair to me. Assuming Knight scored a 9 or 10, that comes out to be about a hundred an hour. I just can't imagine a quality girl giving it up for half.

How does one find these $50 an hour models in Kiev on a one week trip?

[Sponsor74]

100% you need boots LJ. I've been out here a while and even with boots you're slipping all over. They do a remarkable job cleaning the snow from the roads and pavements, but even so the damp, and occasional thawing of snow (even at. 15c the direct sun and a bit of rock salt can cause some melt) means there are frequent pools of sheet ice. Take a scarf to wrap around your face if you plan on walking outside for longer than 2 or 3 mins, it's been a bit windy and humid a couple of days which is a lethal combination in. 20c temps.

Not much new info but I've been doing some research on some of the lesser visited places in the centre. I convinced a Nosorog girl to see me outside the club, so that's a possibility. Another night saw a visit to Solid Gold. Again I was the only punter in there during my half hour in the place. Also went to the two clubs attached to hotels Ukraina (Velvet) and Dnipro (Millennium) , and Penthaus on Red Army Street with the infamous dwarf in the fake lift which goes nowhere.

Here's a table of my findings:

CLUB ENTRY PRIVATE DANCE TAKE OUT COST.

Nosorog (all venues) 100 200 (promo) and / a.

Solid Gold 100 300 $400.

Penthaus 100 300 $300/2500.

Dnipro 100 400 $400*

Velvet 100 500 and / a.

In Velvet only 1 of the 7 girls was doable, really there's no reason to visit here ever. Had private dance been 200Hrv I would have taken a dance and given my number to Emma, but I had a tea, stayed to watch all 7 girls dance and left spending 120 Hrv.

In Penthaus I went to takeout one girl specifically. I bought the girl a drink and then just as we were discussing her leaving she said she had to leave as the guy she plans to marry (a punter) had just come in. She was not lying. Poor guy, she was very willing to leave and told me he has been in 3 times this week and would not be in tomorrow if I wanted her. So he is engaged to Kristina and he still has to pay to see her in a nightclub! I was annoyed at the time, but sought solace at Rio in the arms of Veronica. She was quite good, owo, we got on well but I did not send SMS after getting her number, just don't have desperate need to see her again.

Solid Gold. Supposed to be $400 for 3 hours and $500 for longer. $300 option for 2 hours was not offered.

In the event after $400 I took Vika and she stayed until morning and did everything. I should not pay this price but advantage with such a quiet club is girls are fresh, eager to please.

Dnipro I went with friend for whom I was a guide. 7 girls here too, but not great lineup. But the little man was in the mood for more action, and I justified paying over the top with telling myself I would get another 19yo eager to please and an extra $100 saved the walk or taxi to Rio, another entry price and probably a drink and another hour of my time til I could leave Rio with a girl. I asked Devochka the cost of takeout to confirm prices were same as my inspection visit last year, but she said discuss with lady. So I said let's go and she said $500. Stupidly I said "no it's only $400" instead of opening with $300. She immediately agreed $400 and I stipulated 4 hours. Once back at the apartment she really got into the sex but denied OWO or DATY and kept trying to stop me touching her. So the outcome was I banged my nuts off, didn't respect her, made her stay til I emptied my load for a 4th time (after a 30-min snooze between rounds 3 and 4 because she was that boring and uncooperative!)

Thanks for your information during this cold February, I wonder how is the street action? The main street near to Mc Donalds girls outside or where are they in this cold weather. Bars and Discos are not my favorites because too much professionals there with standard prices in warm or cold weathere. Therefore, I still prefer the girls outside walking on the street and looking for contacts?