Odessa

[Doctor_Skank]

First of all I am happy to hear from Ca_T again and hear OES's version of the Eros75 story.

Ca_T's version, in which OES staff did all they could to satisfy Eros75's needs and help him as much as possible, does correspond with my experience with the level of service offered by OES. They did do all they can to help during my stays with them. You might remember that I also had a technical problem with an OES apartment during my last stay, however they fixed it the next day and in the mean time offered me an alternative shower to use. Having a technical problem (in my case no hot water) wasn't an ideal start from a holiday standpoint, but OES did do all they could to help... and technical problems occur regularly in Odessa. In hotels too, by the way. Having ANYBODY to contact in case of problems is a big plus in EE, having an English-speaking contact is a double plus.

Am sincerely sorry that fellow monger Eros75 didn't enjoy Odessa, but as I said before, it sounds like much of his "bad luck" was simply an aversion to Odessa itself and the women there and not directly related to OES.

Mongering in EE is an imperfect science and Odessa really isn't for everyone. Compared to other "provincial" EE cities though, at least in the summer Odessa does offer good entertainment value, at least I have always enjoyed myself.

When looking for an EE summer holiday destination, it should also be considered that in the summers, many of the larger EE cities, whether Moscow, Kiev or Kharkov for that matter, do "empty out" and many of the girls (especially students) go on extended holidays to the sea or to visit parents and relatives. Club action in bigger cities is actually better in the winter than in the summer... summer is off season in most places, whereas in Odessa it is high season. The same is true of Crimea.

As many mongers including myself have reported, Odessa is over-hyped in terms of freebie action... it's definitely there, but there is nothing "automatic" about it... and the game is played differently there than in most other EE places. Moreover, there are definitely a lot of Odessan girls who "play" with foreigners all summer long, it really is a summer hobby for many of them. It is actually quite easy to recognize their game once you've clued into a few signals. One of the signals is if they are overly friendly, dress stylishly, speak English well and give you their telephone number instantly... that's usually a sign that you are John #23, Marco #16 or Johann #34... also MANY if not ALL of the Odessan girls on love.mail.ru, flirt.com.ua have met foreign guys and are quite adept at playing... or simply bored with foreigners and prefer local men. You'd be insane to think that a really hot girl on one of those sites is only communicating with you and ís sincere in everything she says. Odessa is a fishbowl, it's like a village despite its million inhabitants.

For those who are serious about mongering in EE, I really do suggest that you learn some Russian as well. Most of us mongers are people who are fascinated (even obsessed) with Slavic women, particularly Russians and Ukrainians. It only makes sense that learning their language is going to be of great value in our mongering "careers"... and in my experience, at least 50% of my freebie scores only happened because I was able to speak Russian to them... and my Russian isn't perfect by any means, it's just good enough to communicate and that's all that matters.

As for success rates with local freebies, there are 1000 variables that are going to determine who is successful and who isn't, one significant factor being luck and another being resilience. It's not a contest (even though it sometimes feels like one) and for those who didn't do well in Odessa, you are in good company... it can happen to anyone. I've also had my share of unsuccessful missions. Just as easily however, you can suddenly find yourself in bed with a local cutie and quickly forget why you ever lost faith....

My summer wouldn't be complete without an excursion to Odessa, so I'll be back.... but will also know what to expect and what not to expect.

[Fido Dido]

5) The girls here can be very cold and distant on the outside, but they warm up if your approach is correct . . . . . 98% of the mongers who arrive in Odessa are really good and their success rate reflects it (it is always a learning experience for me!!!) Unfortunately, the remaining 2% are clueless and seem to screw it up for others.

CA Traveler, I don't want to interfere in your dispute with Eros75 about the appartment.
But I definitly want to give a reaction to what you are saying about Odessa being a good place for mongering.
Yes, in Odessa it is possible to have "freebies". But you have to stay a longer time and you have to spend quite some dates, time, money and effort. It is hard, hard work. Maybe if you live in Odessa it is good. But not for short time visiting (1-2 weeks).
Yes, I did see foreigners/tourists with beautifull women but those women were their "fiancees". They did meet through marriage agencies. And I don't think most members of this forum are interested in getting marriaged.

You talk about 98% of all mongerers in Odessa being succesfull.
But only seldom we see travel-reports with good, detailed information of proof of succes.
If we see posts bragging on succes then these posts have only general information and often they are from members who have posted only 2 or 3 times. Maybe, just maybe there are some posts among these who come from people who have a commercial interest in Odessa. Just maybe. I might be wrong.

In fact, we have had numerous emails and PMs asking if Eros75, Losos and others had visited the same city as they had visited!

If there are numerous people who have succes, how come they don't posts on this forum?
Only thing they do is write PM's to you? Are they too modest? Is being modest the key succes factor in approaching Odessa girls?

Oh yeah, I wouldn't count Loso among the "2% that are clueless and seem to screw it up for others".
Loso is a very experienced and determined mongerer. His information is always of the highest quality.

I would rather say that only 2% of the mongers who arrive in Odessa is succesfull instead of 98%.
The conclusion can only be that Odessa is definitly over-hyped.

Please do see these posts:
Lukasek: report 1 on Odessa: Lukasek in Odessa (intro)
Lukasek: report 2 on Odessa: The first day from Lukasek
Lukasek: report 3 on Odessa: The first week
Loso69: Loso in Odessa

[CA Traveler]

It probably has not been noticed, but I have purposely not posted over the past couple of months. I don’t plan to bore people with a long explanation, but rather share a few final thoughts with anyone who might care to listen.

While I operated my apartment rental business in Moscow, one of my greatest pleasures, besides being sandwiched between two blondes, was meeting and getting to know fellow mongers from all over the world. Many of those clients have become repeat clients, good friends and, in Anton’s case, a business partner. During that period, it was obvious whenever a client came to the FSU for the first time, but for the most part everyone seemed to be flexible enough to understand the environment and that even in the “capital” of the Soviet Union, where billions of rubles are spent to make it the “showplace”, it was still in a transition phase of development and, in fact, that was part of the charm.

When I first visited Spb, it was a city totally under construction in preparation for its upcoming 850th anniversary. Now, of course, it is a “show place” but even Spb has its decaying areas.

When I first visited Odessa directly from Moscow, I was amazed at the underlying beauty of the city, which I shared in earlier posts. Granted it is still in the middle of a long transition to its former self, BUT the city is magnificent in that it shows the three stages of the long crawl out of the dregs of the Soviet Union; 1) Decay, 2) Work-in-progress, 3) Full restoration.

Of course, one of the downsides of this crawl up the mountain of restoration is that you may have a decaying building right next to a beautifully restored 19th century building, BUT perhaps you have to be flexible and knowledgeable enough about the history and culture to appreciate the city’s progress.

At the same time, Odessa is not Kiev, Spb, or Moscow, it is not the primary destination of Ukrainian grivna for development projects. By all standards, Kiev is far along in the progress of development, as is Moscow and Spb.

Specifically to address the several negative comments posted recently, there have been hundreds of posts that discuss the terrible common areas in apartment buildings throughout the FSU. Eros75 makes it sound like he has frequently traveled throughout the FSU, i.e. Russia, yet he has no posts that I can find about RU. It seems that bedding a Russian does not make you culturally literate about the country and its quirks.

I began by praising my clients in Moscow because they were the highlight of my time there… Similarly, in Odessa the vast majority of our clients have been great guys with an understanding that Odessa is not Thailand and it does not offer the P4P opportunities of Moscow, Bangkok or other oft mentioned destinations. Nor is Odessa a western destination where most people speak English!

(That said, the vast majority of our clients have a great time and many have already returned for their second, third and fourth visits. Some have even purchased or are looking for an apartment in Odessa.)

In fact, I think all of this has been well documented, but in spite of the many posts stating exactly this, people continue to arrive with false expectations that… 1) every girl is available as a P4P partner, 2) average pay is so low that a girl will swoon over every westerner who waves a $50 bill at them, 3) A ho is a ho and once you pay them you own them, 4) there’s no need to do any homework, but still to expect to sweep an ODS girl off her feet because they live outside the FSU, 5) There is no need to learn even a few Russian words, etc.

To repeat again, Odessa is not a first line of the monger kingdom, but rather a reasonably priced place you can visit and, at the same time, be surrounded with beautiful women at clubs, cafes and on the street. IF you have the moxie to make it happen, it is really up to you. As a rule of thumb, if you can walk into a bar/club in most cities and have the personality to get close to a woman and either leave with her or with her phone number, AT LEAST 30% of the time, you will do OK in Odessa and will have a ball. Why? Because you obviously enjoy the hunt and understand that you can’t bag a keeper if you don’t make it happen yourself!

If you can’t answer that honestly, then you should not plan to visit Odessa and have a FREE bed partner…

The other unusual thing about Odessa is that the working girls let you know if they don’t like a client. In fact, I have never seen it happen as often as it did in the past two months from mongers who made unreasonable demands and in fact had a difficult time finding P4P AT ANY PRICE! Why? Simply because they were jerks and behaved in ways that forced these normally flexible girls to draw the line! In other words, a loser in their home country is probably going to be a loser in Odessa!

Ironically, when VinceV made plans to visit, I held my breath because I knew he had a rep of ripping off other’s information, including mine, and I fully expected him to be very high maintenance! HOWEVER, he had a great time and didn't require a lot of hand holding because he was personable and made friends, even if he didn’t speak Russian. I admit I was surprised, but some of the recent posts by less successful mongers have highlighted that you can’t judge a person and his personality from their posts!

As doc stated, one's perspective would have probably been different if they had been able to keep their bed occupied without help. In fact, that makes the FSU crummy hallways seem petty!

At the same time, it is a bit of a stretch for another member to pu-pu VV’s report when that member has recently posted a report where he has bent the truth to such an extent!

As it stands, we can pretty much peg the guys who will do well when they visit Odessa. Surprisingly enough, it is not the “Brad Pitts”, but rather the personable guys who enjoy life and are flexible enough to absorb the character of Odessa and Ukraine as a new experience and not a place where you can bag a dozen birds a day for $100.

That said, it doesn’t matter if the guy is white, brown, black or yellow, it is his personality that will win out in the end.

Specifically, I find it hilarious that any one who has traveled very much in Asia would dare to call Odessa a shit hole! A walk through almost any city in China, most cities in Thailand or Cambodia, and, yes, even Hong Kong, specifically Kowloon, will deliver negative sensory stimulation that will not be approached in Odessa unless you happen to be crawling around in the gutter by a dumpster.

In fact, we have had numerous emails and PMs asking if Eros75, Losos and others had visited the same city as they had visited!

OTOH, I apologize if I led anyone to believe that Odessa was a monger’s paradise… I don’t believe I did, but there's my mea culpa. Perhaps the key is being a local, but I can tell you that last winter, I had 2-3 girls ringing my door bell every night, and it wasn’t because I am such a handsome devil!

At the same time, it was stated that “there didn’t seem to be many younger girls with older guys”! In fact, I spent 5 weeks last summer with a Ukrainian girl 37 years younger than I am… Perhaps that wasn’t enough of an age difference for some!

First point, don’t plan to visit Odessa if “taking photos is more important than sex” with the working girls or if you think every girl is a ho or if you think you can bed as many as you can for $50 or less each.

Secondly, just because you don’t embarrass yourself, don’t think you’re not embarrassing your friends and companions.

Lastly, if you stay with us and if you have a problem, you must tell someone. If no one knows there is a problem, it is difficult to fix it. This is Ukraine and local Ukrainians do not normally do more than they have to. In fact, the OES staff is the best there is and for Eros75 to embellish his story with distortions does no one any good.

Specifically, Eros75, I know for a fact that the OES staff bent over backwards to make your stay pleasant. On top of that, even when you were upgraded to another apartment, you were given both free services and a further reduction in your rate with little appreciation on your part.

I guess the good thing is that the bad apples will soon dry up and return to Thailand so that all of the returning visitors and others will not have to endure their sour attitude!

To all of my past clients and our many great OES clients, we want you to know that we appreciate your business and will continue to work to improve our service in the future. I think they will all agree that we may not be perfect but we do respond to a problem to the best of our ability... if it is known.

[Ash1001]

Doc Skank and Prosal - thanks vm for your perspective on the provincial town issue.

Although I'm definitely curious about Nikolaev, I think that in the depth of Winter staying in Odessa will just be more pleasant - it's a sophisticated town with good restaurants and bars and a generally upmarket feel. You could enjoy yourself even with no sex materialising (just kidding - it's not THAT great )

I think I'll check out NIK in early summer, say May. Perhaps run-down, post-industrial grimness won't feel so bad when the sun is shining!

Nikolaev, by the way, is the #1 town for marriage agency "socials" (once again this is something I've only heard). I wonder how this would affect the general attitude of the girls and their approach to foreign men? It'd make them savvier & more jaded, no doubt?

[CA Traveler]

at his request, i'm posting this response to eros75 from anton since he is not able to post it directly...

i am sure ca traveler will respond also, but i wanted to reply…under my real name: anton olff… as eros75 - i will not disclose his name. he gets the benefit of anonymous posting and can therefore say anything, make false statements and accusations about me and my staff.

from the standpoint of a business owner, it is always disheartening to hear that a customer or client has had a bad experience…whether they have contributed to this in some way or not. when you are in the accommodations business, you try all possible ways to make a client happy, regardless of his personal needs and quirks. most of the time, we have succeeded. in this case, we clearly did not.

there are times however, when everything you do is not enough. moreover, there are always people whom are never satisfied, whether due to unrealistic expectations, an individual personality, lack of experience in russia or ukraine, attitude, etc. eros75 fits that bill.

in any case, i would like to address comments made by eros75, so that the readers on this website can have the facts to make their own judgment. moreover, i would love to hear from others who have stayed with us. my email is: anton@theodessagroup.net

what strikes me most about reading this posting are some of the general statements of eros75. at the very least, they tend to be contradictions to much of his diatribe:

“in the van the girl gave me an odessa map with their ad bragging their services, i was interiorly laughing, afterall i’m not here for the quality of their services”

“even the apartment is quite nice and spacious, but what a point to have a castle in a shithole”

our apartments may indeed be “castles in a shithole,” to paraphrase eros75. one could argue that much of the fsu is a shithole. what we have been trying to do…and we are not completely there yet…is renovate and rebuild the so that it is not in the case. this country and this region, have a ways to go before that is the reality. most buildings (quoting eros75, “ as in all the former ussr city is horrible and falling apart”), the entrances, the courtyards, the exteriors, the staircases… all need major work, including the building where eros75 stayed upon his arrival.

as for personal safe, odessa is safer than most cities in the world. eros75 seems to be a little disturbed by the fact that other people live in the building, and somewhat frightened by the prospect of living next to apartments housing young jewish female students.

as for accusations made by eros75 about my conduct and that of my staff, i am shocked by his statements. i would like to respond every point…but it would quickly become a flame war which is inappropriate for this forum. however, i would like to make several points…

some facts:

1) both my staff and i went out of our way to accommodate eros75 at all times. no one bullshitted him or lied as he states. i am personally insulted not only by his comments, but by his omissions: for instance, the best girls whom he had with were women i had referred to him.

2) in spite of 100% occupancy, i suggested and arranged for him to move closer to his friend and at the inconvenience of a personal friend who i had to accommodate elsewhere. i did this out of pity for someone i considered lost and confused and perhaps in need of a little hand holding.

he is also confused about the prices he states (i guess our office manager masha, the “pawn” that eros75 calls her from the beginning of his post, lied to him too.) if he likes, i can post his confirmation and invoice on the internet for all to see. he was never quoted orally or in writing: $95 per night for any apartment he stayed in.

moreover, as courtesy to his friend, he received a discount when he booked and received an even more generous discount when he transferred to a larger more expensive apartment at our main location on deribsovskaya…. plus, a partial refund as another gesture of goodwill.

in addition, he complains about internet service not being in the apartment, but he never booked it or asked for it. on top of that, i gave him our optional high speed internet service…free of charge!!!


some other minor points:

our van is not rotten, nor dirty. in addition, our driver is one of those rare finds in this part of the world: a non-drinker and a clean freak.

on several occasions, eros75 rejected the help of our staff who tried to help him after he called the office requesting it. he also rejected my assistance, and interestingly the help of a fellow monger and neighbor who offered him candles when the power went out temporarily. if your cock is your brain and guide, then please don’t insult those who have tried to help you.


some advice for travelers to odessa, and indeed the fsu in general:

1) arrive with an open mind. if you are the type who cannot accept the challenge of being in a developing country or city, go to a more developed destination. also, there are some people for whom apartments are not a good choice. hotels are a better option for these types of travelers. however, it most cases, plan to pay more for everything.

2) learn some russian. the days of bagging “regular girls” cause you are an english speaking foreigner are over. as for pros…better to go to moscow, bangkok or rio. however, if you are prepared to do a little work to bag some of the most beautiful women on the planet, then this…and the rest of ukraine…are your place.

3) some asian men do very well here. if you are asian however, as eros75 is…don’t expect the girls here to fall at your knees. there is still prejudice and if you don’t have the personality to overcome this obstacle, then you will be disappointed (could this have something to do with the perspective of eros75???)

we have had african-americans, japanese and chinese men stay with us who have very done well here. again: if you are a loser in your own country…or you have a fragile ego, then don’t expect the results to be different here. go to bangkok instead. the girls here are easy. however, they have a modicum of self-respect and aren’t as hungry as girls from southeast asian villages or the slums of the third world.

4) plan your dates with “regulars” before your arrival…and overbook.

5) the girls here can be very cold and distant on the outside, but they warm up if your approach is correct. eros75 is half-right when he says you have to treat them badly to score: “nice guys don’t get laid.” on the other hand, you have to know how to treat women. 98% of the mongers who arrive in odessa are really good and their success rate reflects it (it is always a learning experience for me!!!) unfortunately, the remaining 2% are clueless and seem to screw it up for others.

6) dress nice!! sorry eros75, you are very wrong about that one. i am a very poor dresser myself and i know that i have lost a few hot prospects every now and then because of it. people here are very status conscious and clothes are one way to express it.


lastly, keep your expectations in line with the reality of traveling to the fsu.

[Avi27]

I just remmembered: On the train from Kharkov I saw a girl from kiev-x.com.

It seems that the nice girls are going to Kiev for open and close.

[Avi27]

I went to kharkov for hunting.It was not so great maby because I staid only 2 nights.
I saw some sw but I rate them as 5-6.couldnt find clubs like the RP in kiev or even close to it.

In my opinion its a waste of time going there for hunting.

Good Luck

[Prosal]

D.S

You're spot on. In Chisinau, as in Bucarest, one of the most important rule is to have ENOUGH time (three to four weeks are ideal). I guess it's the same thing EVERYWHERE in EE.

Cheers

[Doctor_Skank]

Prosal:

If you have the urge to check out the provinces, then go for it... maybe it is your paradise...

I do suggest you plan in a couple of days longer than you would for Moscow or Kiev... it takes a bit longer to "get the ball rolling" in the provinces and there are the various disadvantages I listed before (among others) but if you can get good mojo going, it can pay off big time.

Just don't expect it to be a simple case of:

"Kharkov: Kiev without the foreigners"
"Nikolaev: Odessa without the attitude"
or
"Donetsk: Moscow without the traffic"

The differences are less superficial... then again, if you've been to Chisinau, you know what to expect...

[Prosal]

My experience about EE is limited to Chisinau and Romania, but despite all the real disadvantages listed by D.S, and without being controversial, those 'mid-sized' provincial cities are IMO still VERY interesting hunting grounds.

What seems to me evident is that those cities are HUGE. Kharkov has 1 500 000 inhabitants, compared to, let's say, the 600 000 inhabitants of Chisinau urban area. Almost three times more girls to chase (in Chisinau the girls are already PLENTIFUL and it has been for me a very, very, very good freebies hunting ground). Also how many mongers go to Kharkov (or Dnipro, Donest, ect, all cities of 1 000 000 inhabitants or more) compared with the HORDES of sex-tourists invading Chisinau ?


Just my two leis


http://www.citypopulation.de/Ukraine-Cities.html

[Doctor_Skank]

Tom73:

I don't think we met, which is too bad because I am sure we would have had fun having a couple of drinks and chasing skirts...

Thanks for your "insider" comments on Odessa.

Ash1001:

Just like Tom73, I doubt that Nikolaev is simply "Odessa without the attitude", but can't speak from first hand experience. Have been to plenty of other provincial towns though and have been saying all along that I don't think they are really better than the big cities for mongering. Some guys say the provinces are heaven, my experience has been inconsequential ... moments of spectacular glory mixed with a lot of moments of mind-numbing boredom.

Sure there are some advantages in mongering in smaller towns:

* generally lower prices on everything, including p4p sex
* much less competition from other foreigners, some girls are attracted to foreigners
* women who may be looking to "escape" the boredom and hopelessness of their shitty towns
* almost all strip clubs are pickup joints for pros, as are saunas
* student towns have lots of 18-22 year old women
* one GOOD pro contact can keep you supplied with pros for your entire stay

That is about it... but for some mongers, that's exactly the right mix.

The disadvantages are, among others:

* lack of p4p infrastructure, much of "the game" is unadvertised
* generally dismal, depressing life during the week... only club action in on weekends
* clubs very limited and generally dominated by local wanna-be mafioso
* Russian language skill (or good contacts) a must to really crack the surface of "the game"
* you may attract negative attention from the locals, especially if non-white
* lack of accessible apartment services (they do exist in every city, but Russian is often required)
* hotels not girl-friendly and either expensive-n-shitty or cheap-n-super shitty
* due to student girls busy schedules, in-week dating often difficult and many girls leave on weekends

For the more comfort-oriented monger, the provincial towns are really not a good bet.

An adventurous freebie-chaser may find heaven in the provinces, I have usually found a wash-downed version of the capitals. Interesting, but no real advantage compared to Kiev for example... at least in the short term. Being in the provinces usually starts to pay off after about 7-10 days... before that there is a lot of "run around" getting settled, finding and milking contacts, making dates and getting girls to come to your apartment. You have this in Kiev as well, but in Kiev you also have easy access "crap-shoot" p4p options to fall back on and there is freebie club action 7 days a week. Going "provinicial" can pay off big-time if things go well, but it can be mentally and physically draining, especially if you are alone.

We've met and I know you are a fit and confident guy, so I don't doubt your ability to handle Nikolaev, but do wonder if it's going to be much better than Odessa or even Kiev in terms of freebie action in the winter. I'm kind of hoping you give it a try and give us all a good report on how it goes for you... am curious like the rest of ISG on how well you do...

[Eros75]

Bez

Don't change my words to your own, don't be a dumb coward by copying and change the meaning of my words, if you have something to say...say it with your own words, don't be a pussy coz there is already a lot on this site...I value much more friendship than pussies coz pussies you can get anywhere...but I'm talking something you surely don't know....by your reaction I won't be surprised if you are involved in some ways to OES business

Eros75

[Sevastopol1]

Are you aware that Xmas is celebrated in January and the days you mention are just normal days?

Hmm, I have perhaps been a little hasty in booking my flight down to Odessa for the Xmas period. But I had four days to kill and did NOT want to be in London. Maybe I should have chosen Istanbul or Dubai? But hey, that's a whole new thread

I'm a frequent visitor to Kiev and am usually impressed by the openness and friendliness of the women I meet - it's almost as if the big city attitude is working in our favour. I just thought I'd do S Ukraine in the Winter as it will be warmer, and I'm curious about what ODS will be like off-season.

I've only been to ODS twice, the first time being in October 2004 when the tourist season had just finished. There were a lot of students around and no obvious tourist contingent. BUT speaking Russian, I discovered, was the make or break factor - you would be blanked if you started your chat up in English.

I'm taking Russian lessons and should be able to hold a meaningful conversation now

So, do you think Fri 22nd to Tue 26th Dec in Odessa will be the safer bet? Or should I take a deep breath and try Nikolaev? Advice please.

[Bez Bezarra]

Eros75

Well we really all are Sorry about your bum man,

I am sure you will find lice in your thing

Can you hear Akroyd and Steve Martin joking with the accents
in those "two wild and crazy guys"!

[Bez Bezarra]

Guys,

I was the worst thing that chicks jump on

I had tons of girlfriends in Bucharest and read carefully I dont brag

I paid to have danger and bulbs.

I ease it in but he kept shitting me so my anger is quite understandable.

me and my friend when we don't score we enjoy talking coz my friend's a guy

but I was complaining as I did everywhere I have been in the world
and have been completely spoiled by my special friend with me in Ods…
without him in Ods would be worst.

Eros75

Time for some new friends?