Other Areas

[Street Sleuth]

Further to the point that any of the small town girls can be bought, if one is discreet:

This goes to suggest that any dirt-poor girl will give it up for money, if things are discreet. I generally find the opposite to be true. The poorer people are, the less material wealth they have, generally speaking, the more pride they have - namely, because its the only thing they have.

Disagree? Go to any Indian or Chinese village, where the average income is less than $1/day, and try to get laid....

[Street Sleuth]

CD - no, I did not mean to suggest that all hot girls move to the big 3 cities - I meant (and think I made if fairly clear), that any hot girl WILLING TO WORK P4P would move to the big 3 cities. There are plenty of hot girls to be found outside the major cities (though not nearly as many), but they are likely not willing to do P4P. IF they were, they would have probably already moved to the big cities. I don't think this is that hard to comprehend, but if you want to keep arguing, just for the sake of arguing, please continue....

I also do not agree that all women in EE can be bought. This is a majorly false generalization. I'm not romantisizing, or defending EE girls. Just stating the facts - many girls are actually in fact much more morally grounded than Western women. For every 18 year old P4P in Kiev, there's a 22 year old virgin in the countryside, who won't give it up for any (reasonable) amount of money.

I've met many a young P4P in Kiev - most are from outside of Kiev, and all say they came for the same reason - they would never do what they do in their home town.

As for finding a Mammacka, or negotiating with taxi drivers, in offbeat towns - not really a possibility for non-Russian speakers, or those with minimal towns.

I stand by my statement - P4P is fairly minimal, and hidden, outside the major cities.

[Excess]

Doc

I was really just trying to illustrate the viewpoint of the Ukrainian guys I've made acquaintance with. They all seem to have the same outlook on their women........

Much merit in the discussion, but it also neatly if backhandedly points out why there are the 10's of thousands of girls/ladies in the Ukraine and elsewhere in the FSU paying their hard won 'dues' to be listed on the "Marriage Agency and Dating" sites looking for an escape from the males' mentality described.

Many have tried but few succeed as in most of life's endeavours.

[Bez Bezarra]

Doc

I'm in your corner, and our monger philosophies are concurrent.

I was really just trying to illustrate the viewpoint of the Ukrainian guys I've made acquaintance with. They all seem to have the same outlook on their women, and they were not drunk or jealous or broke or short on motivation or not getting pussy. I beleive they were speaking from experience and the general motivation of their women folk as it also relates to what they've been taught by other men folk about the culture of the motherland. If you think like a Ukrainian, you don't have the highest regard for the female gender.

This shouldn't surprise anyone, especially when you consider the same outlook of their Arab, Asian, and Latin counterparts, whose regard for women is markedly lower.

[Doctor_Skank]

And Doc, I wasn't trying to start a debate, but what ever you tried, you just didn't have all she wanted.

Believe ME, if you did, she would have given it up.

Don't forget the history of this part of the world. 72 years of totalitarian control without freedom preceeded by hundreds of years of serfdom doesn't just dissolve out of DNA in 20 years.

I hear you and I agree that there is a healthy degree of truth to that statement, but I am simply too romantic to believe that every woman can be bought.

Then again, I'm not exactly the kind to offer the kinds of sums of money that might make me "interesting" enough.

For me it's also a defense mechanism... the moment I become callous enough to think that all women can be bought is the moment I question the very nature of the game... and I fear that I'll lose interest in playing.

Seeing as I love the game the way it is and love playing it, win or lose, I'll happily stay in my naive world of pseudo-romance and appropriately applied bouts of genuine (even if usually temporary) affection.

[Bez Bezarra]

I like saying

all Ukrainian girls are for sale

all Ukrainian men are drunks

and all American guys are stupid.

Stupid is as stupid does, Gomer.

And Doc, I wasn't trying to start a debate, but what ever you tried, you just didn't have all she wanted.

Believe ME, if you did, she would have given it up.

Don't forget the history of this part of the world. 72 years of totalitarian control without freedom preceeded by hundreds of years of serfdom doesn't just dissolve out of DNA in 20 years.

[Doctor_Skank]

The other thing you are forgetting, is rule number one, as explained to me by every Ukrainian guy I've ever met. ALL women in Ukraine, from 18 years to 118 years, can be bought and paid for.

I've heard this too... usually from Ukrainian guys that aren't getting any pussy at all and are jealous of guys that are... usually guys with zero money and no motivation in life to get ahead jealous of those with money and enjoying life.

Sure, money is an aphrodisiac... but not every Ukrainian woman can be bought. Believe me, I've tried!!

[Cruiser D]

It's kind of like saying - I really can't understand why good looking girls wouldn't want to move to Kiev, Moscow or St Petersburg to be a w hore, life would be so much better. Really, do I have to say anything else? Or are you saying all the good looking p4p girls eventually end up in these cities?

Bez, saying all Ukrainian girls are for sale is like saying all Ukrainian men are drunks (did they mention that too?) and all American guys are stupid.

[Bez Bezarra]

P4P outside of the main cities of Moscow, St. Petersburg, and Kiev is minimal, and hidden. Unless you are into the adventure of snooping them out (they do exist, but you have to dig real deep), then its a waste of time.

Basically, girls all want to move to the big 3 cities. Any young, decent looking girl can earn enough money in P4P to live in the big cities. Why would they stay in small/mid-sized towns, and generally continue to live a miserable life, when they can move to the big 3, earn more money, and work anonymously?

I think it really depends on what you mean by digging real deep. In the local newspaper, there is one agency advertising. When I asked 3 different taxi drivers how I can get a nice girl, they all gave me the same business card, and it was for that same agency. That's the agency I tried calling every night, and they always had the same answer, "only one girl available, 25 years old, 2 kids, 57 kg, take it or leave it!"

But where I think you are off just off track, is when you say "why would any hot girls stay in their smaller city?" Just walk around any city, and there are endless numbers of hot looking women, so they're not all going to Kiev.

The other thing you are forgetting, is rule number one, as explained to me by every Ukrainian guy I've ever met. ALL women in Ukraine, from 18 years to 118 years, can be bought. Its part of history, and that life is not gone, not yet anyway. So it really doesn't matter to them about going to Kiev so they can be anonymous, if you can be discreet, which in Ukraine ain't that tough, since nobody cares what anybody else does, then a little hanky panky sponsorship is no big deal. For example, I hooked up with a 19 year old through a mamachka a few years back, and she gave me her number. When I called and asked her to come back, she brought her own mother!! That's when I realized that it was her mother who answered the phone, that the girl didn't bring her mother, her mother brought the girl! In the doorway of the apartment building, her mother asked me to pay. I was worried that somebody would see me handing her the money, but nobody could care less what we were doing.

As far as wondering why they would stick around living a miserable life, most will tell you that its the only life they ever have known, and so to them its normal, not miserable.

[Eros74]

Uphigh you are very good, if you was able to resist 3 weeks in city like Nikolaev where I got boring in couple of hours last year.

Great report, I agree, but how do you kill the time waiting for the next sex session?!?

Maybe next time try to ask also to taxicar, when I went to Uzhorod, smallest then Nikolaev, I was totally satisfied and no hassles to get pussy by taxi, they pick up 3 girls in the front of my hotel, no need to call.

Do not you have some pics to share with us?

Cheers

[Street Sleuth]

P4P outside of the main cities of Moscow, St. Petersburg, and Kiev is minimal, and hidden. Unless you are into the adventure of snooping them out (they do exist, but you have to dig real deep), then its a waste of time.

Basically, girls don't want their friends/family to find out they are working girls - inevitably, in all but the biggest cities, they would find out.

Additionally, pretty much throughout EE, the locals all want to move to the big 3 cities. Any young, decent looking girl can earn enough money in P4P to live in the big cities. Why would they stay in small/mid-sized towns, scramble to find business (fewer available clients), risk their friends/family finding out, and generally continue to live a miserable life, when they can move to the big 3, earn more money, and work anonymously?

If you've been through working girl scene in the big cities, and as a general rule as the girls where they are originally from - they are rarely from the city itself.

[Qjump]

The hotel security, and the disco/cafe waiters knew some numbers to call. So again, how does one find these numbers to call??????

Thats really what I am getting it it seems to be a closed shop, locals only need to apply.

[Bez Bezarra]

My business partner who is local has phone numbers for some pimps.

The hotel security, and the disco/cafe waiters knew some numbers to call. So again, how does one find these numbers to call??????

[Qjump]

Bez,
I agree in what you say on agencies, here in Donetsk I am yet to find one.
Ukraine has a funny attitude and apart from Kiev, they seem to be very low key to the point of silent on P4P.
Strange in a place where many girls I meet who speak english tell me they have been abroard working in many other countries. And strangely thye see nothing about it but yet here they play the innocent.
Recently I was out with a girl who wanted to speak in my dreadful russian instead of her perfect english as she did not want to explain to anyone how she speaks so good english.
My business partner who is local has phone numbers for some pimps who will send a girl at the drop of a hat, but I have not yet witnessed the action yet as everytime we plan it something stops us in business either I have to be somewhere or he does, I will report back as soon as I have witnessed it, I plan to take pictures also.
Even on the Lovemy website there are loads of P4P girls but again here in Dontesk there are some but will they reply? NO! the only ones that do are asking for phone credit up front just scammers basically.
If anyone has alink to a website to an agency here in Donetsk I will willingly test it out (for the good of the Forum you understand)
For dating freebies I have started a system of lunch dates as a first date then If i believe its going to get going they will get a dinner date, this week I have been busy every lunch. and its Dinner for one lucky contestant tonight.
She has asked to see my place already, that always helps!
Q

[Bez Bezarra]

Very good work son, for your Cherry-pop report!

Also, good to hear that you did not let your translator take advantage of your need. Just goes to show that while there are always those who attempt to take us for all we've got, there are also some who aren't greedy.

For example, I still rely and deal with one non-greedy "travel" agent in my base of operations that I met in 2000, and have worked with him and only him every year since then for certain requirements. By this time, I could certainly get some things done without him, but I am, if anything, loyal to my komrads.

Your difficulties are spot on, especially about lack of weekday daytime p4p company being available. This is the greatest challenge. One of the best surprises I EVER had though, was an agency I called every afternoon throughout the week, and was told every time that no girls were available, but just for the hell of it I called again on Sunday at noon, and lo and behold an hour later, 3 nineteen year olds showed up ready to tag-team orgy me into oblivion! I quickly figured out that, of course, they were at their institute classes Monday through Saturday, and only had time and opportunity on Sundays to earn financial aid. And yes, they were only asking about $35 each for the right to fuck my brains out, though that was the basic wham-bam package, no extras. And unfortunately, they declined my request for a full length lesbi-show feature video. I did however, take two of them on, though one at a time. By the time I had regained my ability to hook up with the third one, she was long gone. Oh well.

That's why, and I think the Doctor can agree, though he's usually mixing biznis with pleasure, that during those weekday afternoons, its best to pursue as many normal girls as possible, by just chatting them up in shops, cafe's, anywhere you spot a cute thing. The down side to that is speaking the language enough, so if you can't, its practically hopeless, because out in these cities and towns, the cuties speak no english. But if you can develop that strength, it does allow for other avenues.

HOWEVER, this difficulty of finding p4p in Ukraine cities during the weekday afternoons is NOT what you may find in glorious Mother Russia. There is, if you mongers are not aware, still a substantial difference between the real true motherland, and the FSU countries, and this is definitely one of those areas.

Perhaps we can get into a little discussion here, why agencies are so much more prevalent in Russian cities, but not in Ukraine? For one, I do not understand this. And I don't mean Kiev, I mean the other cities, though even in Kiev, where do the agencies advertise other than What's On and Kiev Post, who has, by the way, cut out 90% of their agency ads.

Can anyone explain why agencies have absolutely no advertisements in russian language papers, in a city of 3 million russian speaking Ukrainians?Yes, sure its easy to get into Ukraine, no invitations, no visas, no police registrations, but the p4p is so limited. And in Russia, and again, not Moscow or St. Pitr, the ads are NOT in english papers, they are there for the locals, NOT yankee and brit tourists.