Phnom Penh

[WestCoast1]

True, and unlike you I would not be too thrilled about that. And if I was in Pattaya and caught some joker focusing on me with some girl, I'd walk right up to him, grab his camera and offer him one last chance to delete those pics immediately.

Fairly presumptuous. Offer him once last chance to delete those pics, and if he chooses not to? They belong to him. Its not like you're going to grab his camera and delete them or break the camera. How do you feel about Cambodian jail? Or getting your butt kicked by his friends later? Wendella, you mentioned the girl's right to privacy, but I have to tell you that is just a feeling. When in public (in any country) you have no legal right to privacy. Even in the US, where a majority of people (mistakenly) believe they have a right to privacy, you don't have that. Anyone with a vid camera can take your picture or video and do what they want with it. Papparazi have rights, too, including snapping a pic of a celebrity without her makeup in the grocery store and posting it online. There is little one can do about it. While I, too, share the feeling that 'privacy' should be a legal right, there simply is none. Several decades ago, a US supreme Court justice mentioned the right to privacy in a ruling, and the public gobbled it up, thinking they all had that as a right. He would, years later, say he regretted mentioning it (as there is no legal basis for such).

Basically, posting pics on the internet is an extra service that you're taking from her without her consent, and probably against her wishes, for free. It's not much different than doing anal on her against her wishes or having your buddy pop out of the bathroom unexpected. Only difference is that she's probably not aware you're taking this extra service from her.

In my case, that's not true. I rarely post a full facial shot, I tend to blot out the eyes, tattoos, jewelry, to hide her identity. However, I tell every girl I'm with (pro's or dating site contacts, girls from the mall, etc) that I will be photographing her. They ALL agree to it in advance. I never leave it up to chance that in the room she might say 'no' to pics. If they say, 'Don't put on internet, ' I tell them not to bother coming with me. I tell them I will use the pics how I please. As you have no idea what agreement I have with my girls, and you have no idea the agreement other guys have with the girls, what difference does it make to you what they post, unless you are being presumptuous (assuming)?

So I guess if someone got nude photos of you (or someone close to you) that showed your face, and posted those in a sex forum, that would be all good then?

You have asked the good question. The others have answered it. NO its not good if someone else posts my nude pics, because I didn't consent to it. However, all of my girls DID consent to it (see Indonesia and filipines photogalleries, hundreds of pics). You have NO IDEA what those girls consented to before writing this drivel. Post your pics as you would like to, and enjoy the pics of others. I read thru the last several pages in the Cambodia photogallery, and the last 20 or so of your (many) reports. Not a single picture posted: are you backseat driving?

[Member #4698]

RJ, I want to compliment you on the great photographs you post in the Thai Photo gallery and just now on this thread. Your Nana girl is spectacular and the pictures of the Soi 33 hostess illustrate the informational benefit of posting and why we post pictures. I have been to Soi 33 bars and found only a few of the hostess's worthy of a bar fine. Your photos prove beyond words that it is possible to find a nice women there. And isn't that the whole point of this forum? The free flow of information about the monger scene worldwide. But, I am afraid there is no argument, no matter how logical that will convince the naysayers and on the other side, no so called compassionate argument no matter how heartfelt that will convince us. Wendella truly believes what he is saying and he is entitled to his POV, but he comes very close to insult when he tries to make his case and he should be very careful of that. Look, if you strongly believe the photos somehow violates a girls right to privacy, than take it up with Jackson, although I doubt you will get very far with him on this. The girls tacitly give up their right of privacy when they pose for the pictures. No one is taking hidden camera shots. There is no coercion. It is their absolute right to refuse or to not permit naked shots. Asking them if they mind being posted on ISG is a negative leading question and a vibe killer. In order to create high quality pictures that capture a girl's sexiness and what she is about, she must be comfortable in front of the camera. Some girls take to being photographed like a fish to water, other girls are more wary. You have to make the shy ones feel comfortable in front of the camera and relaxed in order to get the good shots. The bottom line is if a girl asks me to keep her pictures private I comply with her wishes. The girls are always inquisitive about how their photographs look and I always show them the shots. If they don't like a particular shot, I erase it for them or try to persuade them of its merits. So the girls have a lot of say about their photos and exercise an important degree of editorial content by agreeing to pose in the first place, to pose naked, and approving of the final pictures. Add to that the possibility of any photo causing the girl real harm is so low (as has been pointed out by me and RJ) that it is effectively zero. What more can we say? The argument of how would I like my own naked pictures posted here is pretty farfetched. Maybe in another lifetime I will be reincarnated as a Thai Go Go girl posing for pictures taken by Wendella. That would be karma, baby. Of course I could always decide to work in a factory as millions of others do or maybe get lucky working as waitress in a coffee shop, but then I would not be making the big money in nightlife scene. Free Choice. It is all about free choice.

[Rjsss212]

[QUOTE=Westcoast1; 1240177]RJSSS, learn to use the 'end quote'. This:

[QUOTE=Wendella; 1240101]Please. I'm sure not. And if I'm not, the guy who does that sure isn't.

[QUOTE=Wendella; 1240101]should be:

As in:

Please. I'm sure not. And if I'm not, the guy who does that sure isn't.[/ QUOTE]

I didn't know that and was disappointed in the result as well. But then you got the opportunity to "learn" me, didn't you.

EDITOR'S NOTE: This report was edited to correct sections of the report that were obviously written by bypassing the Forums Text Cleanup Script. Please read the Forum FAQ and the Forum's Posting Guidelines for more information. Thank You!

[WestCoast1]

RJSSS, learn to use the 'end quote'. This:

[QUOTE=Wendella; 1240101]Please. I'm sure not. And if I'm not, the guy who does that sure isn't.[QUOTE=Wendella; 1240101]

should be:

Please. I'm sure not. And if I'm not, the guy who does that sure isn't.

as in:

[QUOTE=Wendella; 1240101]Please. I'm sure not. And if I'm not, the guy who does that sure isn't.[/ QUOTE]

[Rjsss212]

[QUOTE=Wendella; 1240101]I haven't posted in the Thai section in a long long time (Last time I went to Thailand was about 5 yrs ago). Don't remember posting about this over there, but it's possible.

So where are you getting your statistics? [QUOTE=Wendella; 1240101]

I ask them all. Just a few years ago I was able to come 6 maybe 7 times but alas no more. Now 3 maybe 4 if I push it and I only take girls long time so that leaves a lot of time (too much actually) to talk.

[QUOTE=Wendella; 1240101][if Jackson would let me, I'd insert a winky smiley face here] I have no idea how many working girls have computers and internet. I have seen plenty of them in internet cafes though. They use dating sites for sure. I've also come across plenty of reports (right here on ISG) of guys letting the girls get a look at ISG and other sites like it. Right here in this thread we have Cambodian touts come on and post sometimes, so we know they're aware of this site at least. So right off the bat, I'm not exactly trusting your analysis.

But none of this actually matters much, the question is whether they have a right to privacy or not. It's a pretty basic human right.
[QUOTE=Wendella; 1240101]

Hmmm, you use the term too loosly.

[QUOTE=Wendella; 1240101]And the person who should be judging what the boundaries of their privacy are is they themselves, not some snap-happy sex tourist.
[QUOTE=Wendella; 1240101]

I'm hardly 'snap-happy' whatever that means.

[QUOTE=Wendella; 1240101]But don't try to persuade me about it, go ask them if they think they have a right to not have their pic posted on the net. Are you against letting them have any say in it? And if they say they're against it, is it still ok?
[QUOTE=Wendella; 1240101]

No, its not.

[QUOTE=Wendella; 1240101]To me, this one seems blatantly obvious.
[QUOTE=Wendella; 1240101]

Hmmm, personal opinion. Nothing obvious about it.

[QUOTE=Wendella; 1240101]If some guy posted a picture of you naked in the act on the internet, you'd want to kill him.
[QUOTE=Wendella; 1240101]

TOO hypothetical. Was I forced forced? Then, yes, I'd be angry. Did I pose? Then no, I just made a bad decision. If I posed naked for someone how could I be pissed if they used them at their discretion? I've walked the length of Soi Cowbow at least 500 times in front of guys taking pics, video, missionary's preaching, news reporters, etc. Doesn't bother me at all.
[QUOTE=Wendella; 1240101]

It seems to take some impressive mental gymnastics to then presume that it would be a total non-issue for the girls.
[QUOTE=Wendella; 1240101]

Nope, no double gainer here – see below.

[QUOTE=Wendella; 1240101]But really. I'll be the first to admit, if I see an interesting post with a pic attached, I'll probably take a look.
[QUOTE=Wendella; 1240101]

You don't probably look – you open the photo thread like everyone else – hypocritical maybe?

[QUOTE=Wendella; 1240101]I feel a bit guilty if I do, but I do look. I can recognize that it's not exactly kosher and still go ahead and do it. Some guys seem to need to rationalize everything they do as moral and of utmost integrity.
[QUOTE=Wendella; 1240101]

Your morality is personal not universal.

[QUOTE=Wendella; 1240101]That just seems weird to me. Just admit the obvious: it's cleary not a good thing, posting nude pics without consent. What, you're a 100% good person?
[QUOTE=Wendella; 1240101]

Nope, I'm anything but a saint. I've done things that would make your toes curl. BUT I don't fuck people (in the figurative sense).

[QUOTE=Wendella; 1240101]Please. I'm sure not. And if I'm not, the guy who does that sure isn't.
[QUOTE=Wendella; 1240101]

So posting pics with a consent form make me a bad person? See below.

Your response to my post employs the same skewed perspective and selective logic as your argument. You've cherry-picked the parts you like and deem 'rights' where you see fit and discarded the rest at your convenience..

I'm guessing you come from a western country. Well in your country they have deemed prostitution illegal and immoral. And, have determined that in fact humans can not make rational decisions when 'easy' money is involved and CAN NOT choose how to use their bodies and have a 'right' to be FORCED not to engage in this 'easy money' endeavor and these countries enforce it legally.

Yet you discard this rational as an impingement of personal freedoms and have elected to engage in what YOU feel is more 'rational' application of human rights by engaging in prostitution simply because that is what YOU think is a personal 'right'.

Even though it is not legal in Asian countries either. How convenient.

Yet by that same logic, when a girl willingly poses for pictures, is outrageously compensated (by local salary standards) and suffers no subsequent harm or damages you suddenly imbue her with your own imagined 'rights'. When in fact she simply MAY HAVE made a bad decision, and as we know decisions have consequences.

Only in the western world where lawyers rule are people absolved from their bad decisions and in fact made to be martyrs as you have made her. IF she were harmed in any way then she should simply choose differently next time – simple. Are you a lawyer?

Now if she were forced in some way it would be a different story. But in actuality she was anything but forced. She actually seemed to enjoy herself and was not forced in any way. She enjoyed my booze, laughed a lot and enjoyed (apparently) the fine hotel amenities, came to orgasm and was paid an outrageous amount of money (by local standared) – hardly a travesty and WILLINGLY posed WITHOUT qualifying what use the photos would be put to. In fact she did not want to leave!!! When she posed she made a V with her index and middle fingers (as is popular in Asia) and put her tongue in between as if to suggest an act of female to female oral sex. Hard to force someone to do that!

I am a gentleman.

IF she had said no pics then I would not take them.

IF she said no internet then I would not post them.

SHE DID NOT.

So now, absent any prior objections and in the harsh light of day, you want to imbue her with your imaginary 'rights' when in fact she was well aware of what she was doing, well compensated and in hindsight MAY HAVE made a bad decision.

If she had entered into a legally binding contract for a restaurant lease and realized later that nobody ever walks past the corner she chose for her restaurant and that she made a bad decision would you absolve her as well as having 'rights' not to make such a bad decision and void the lease? Of course not.

In the United States it has been determined that you are not responsible for watching where you walk. If a sidewalk has a large crack and you trip and fall it is not your fault but instead the sidewalk owners fault. Is it a basic international human right to be careless in where you walk or careless in the decisions you willingly make?

I guarantee you IT IS NOT!

People are responsible for their actions unless they were deceived or tricked. The bargirl was neither.

So how you apply your 'rights' seems strictly an arbitrary decision made by you and / or your culture AND at YOUR convenience.

The bar girl was just that – carless in her decision to pose at worst AND she suffered no harm except in your mind.

I say that unless you were there to hear it then the tree, when it fell, made no sound and bothered no one.

RESPECT!

EDITOR'S NOTE: This report was edited to correct sections of the report that were obviously written by bypassing the Forums Text Cleanup Script. Please read the Forum FAQ and the Forum's Posting Guidelines for more information. Thank You!

[Wendella]

W,

I haven't posted in the Thai section in a long long time (Last time I went to Thailand was about 5 yrs ago). Don't remember posting about this over there, but it's possible.

So where are you getting your statistics? [if Jackson would let me, I'd insert a winky smiley face here] I have no idea how many working girls have computers and internet. I have seen plenty of them in internet cafes though. They use dating sites for sure. I've also come across plenty of reports (right here on ISG) of guys letting the girls get a look at ISG and other sites like it. Right here in this thread we have Cambodian touts come on and post sometimes, so we know they're aware of this site at least. So right off the bat, I'm not exactly trusting your analysis.

But none of this actually matters much, the question is whether they have a right to privacy or not. It's a pretty basic human right. And the person who should be judging what the boundaries of their privacy are is they themselves, not some snap-happy sex tourist. But don't try to persuade me about it, go ask them if they think they have a right to not have their pic posted on the net. Are you against letting them have any say in it? And if they say they're against it, is it still ok?

To me, this one seems blatantly obvious. If some guy posted a picture of you naked in the act on the internet, you'd want to kill him. It seems to take some impressive mental gymnastics to then presume that it would be a total non-issue for the girls.

But really. I'll be the first to admit, if I see an interesting post with a pic attached, I'll probably take a look. I feel a bit guilty if I do, but I do look. I can recognize that it's not exactly kosher and still go ahead and do it. Some guys seem to need to rationalize everything they do as moral and of utmost integrity. That just seems weird to me. Just admit the obvious: it's cleary not a good thing, posting nude pics without consent. What, you're a 100% good person? Please. I'm sure not. And if I'm not, the guy who does that sure isn't.

[Bumholes1]

The official Government eVisa website I use is:

www.mfaic.gov.kh/evisa/

In 2008, when I last got a eVisa, they still stuck a full page sticker in my passport. Don't they anymore nowadays?

Bumkoles, if you have a source of eVisa without the sticker, please post the website openly and your reward will be great (unlimited supply of beautiful ladyboys, next time you come to PNH)

DCups attention!

Read the above website carefully!

1. EVisas can are for single entry only.

2. You can get them only at international airports and at selected Points of Entry by Road.

From Vietnam, the ONLY one seems to be Bavet (Svay Rieng) , on the road from HMC!

I'll be in PNH around February 15.

If you are still there, maybe we can meet for a beer and discuss Titanic Tits and Beautiful Booty

The government web site quoted is the one I use.

Your point 2 is incorrect. You can only USE them at international airports (PP and SR) and at SOME overland crossings (Poipet and Koh Kong)

You are provided with an e mail visa which you print 2 copies of. One is taken upon arrival and the other on departure, Nothing is stuck in your passport. You just receive entry and exit stamps.

The e-visa is single entry, costs $25 and must be used within 3 months of the date of issue.

Thanks for the offer of ladyboys Daddy San. Unless desperate I think I will stick to the Khmer lasses!

[Rjsss212]

Very restrained and polite response, so I'll try to do the same.

W,

I think your perspective is skewed and the needle on your moral compass is mis-alligned.

Simply, your argument is not practical but academic.

I have heard this same argument many times, and maybe even by you, in the LOS thread mostly but it applies to all of Asia and most ofthe world as well.

You might have a better argument if ALL the world spoke the same language which they don't and IF there was a real chance that poor, uneducated sex-working girls in Asia or anywhere else had computers and could navigate English which they don't and can't.

Many Asian working girls have no or basic English skills at best (most don't) and almost ALL have no writing skills. When asked for a number and a name it usually takes them 40 seconds to write it in pigeon scratch and many times they cross it out and start again becauseit is hard for them.

How many have computers? 1% MAYBE? Are they surfing English websites? No, they are surfing in their language if they surf at all. Most don't. If they do they go to sites they know or which benefit them in some way. Does ISG offer a translated version with little flags in the upper right hand corner? No.

OK, so they have no computer and surf in a café. Are they paying good working girl money to TRY and surf sex sites in English? No they are not. There are billions of sites, millions of sex sites, hundreds of sites like ISG. How and why are they getting to the ISG site? Because some idiot monger shows them? Sure, possible because as we well know there are a lot of idiots that read this site but really at the end of the day that situation is a one off if it happens at all.

Don't believe it?

Then tell me how many actual cases have you heard of that an Asian working girl found ISG for one? And secondly how was she or how many were actually hurt in ANY way? And please don't say if its 1 it's too many. Please tell me how many you've heard of? You've been around, had many hundreds and probably thousands of working girls as have I and most serious mongers – please tell me how many? You can't.

If one did and was uspet how long would she be upset? Certainly not past her next BBBJ's right? And how was she hurt? Was her current or prospective Cambosian, Thai, etc. Boyfriend upset? HE's the same as she is and probably couldn't turn on a computer so how was her life affected?

Lastly, you suggest that they might post our picture if taken and how would we feel.

Well this argument is like comparing granny smith apples to durian seeds.

Because – if some girl posted my picture in a Cambodian language only, working girl website – which would be the Cambodian / Thai, or whatever, equivalent of ISG, it would be an EXTREMELY small audience in a language only understood by a few. Who would care? There are thousands of trade industry publications OR even better, if your picture was posted in a small local Russian language newspaper, read by 15, 000 in a small Russian town like Vladivostok, how would it affect you? That's about the equivalent of what the ISG site is in the world.

So in the end, isn't yours just a case of the 'falling tree in the forest making a sound' argument.

[Daddy San]

The official Government eVisa website I use is:

www.mfaic.gov.kh/evisa/

In 2008, when I last got a eVisa, they still stuck a full page sticker in my passport. Don't they anymore nowadays?

Bumkoles, if you have a source of eVisa without the sticker, please post the website openly and your reward will be great (unlimited supply of beautiful ladyboys, next time you come to PNH)

DCups attention!
read the above website carefully!
1. eVisas can are for single entry only
2. you can get them only at international airports and at selected Points of Entry by Road.
From Vietnam, the ONLY one seems to be Bavet (Svay Rieng), on the road from HMC!

I'll be in PNH around February 15.
If you are still there, maybe we can meet for a beer and discuss Titanic Tits and Beautiful Booty

[Psychman]

very restrained and polite response, so i'll try to do the same.

me either. maybe i'm just a 5 or a 6. but, if they did, would you let them? or what if the hotel had a hidden camera?

true, and unlike you i would not be too thrilled about that. and if i was in pattaya and caught some joker focusing on me with some girl, i'd walk right up to him, grab his camera and offer him one last chance to delete those pics immediately. but there are some big differences in that situation: 1. like most members here, i don't stroll down walking street nude; 2. that's a public place-legally speaking, he as a right to take my photo there. a hotel room is not a public place, a person is entitled to expect privacy in a hotel room, and especially if they're nude.

true, but for a person to have ethics, they need to have one set that they abide by that pertains to themselves and also others. if they have one set of rules for themselves but it doesn't apply to others, that's what being unethical means. only reason i said anything was because that guy who posted on this said there was no 'moral reckoning' on this, that it's 'all good'. he's backing off now and just saying it happens and there's nothing anyone can do to stop it. ok but that's also true of all theft, [CodeWord123] and murder in the world, it doesn't make it ethical.

it sounds like you make some attempt to do it right. tho i'd say if you want to put them up in a public place like this on the internet, then you should ask. not just presume they know. if it was back in your own country, the girl would probably be able to take you to court for doing that. a bedroom is not a public place, and nudity is as private as it gets. and if she was a hooker, she probably could get some street justice instead, and i don't' think you'd find too many people thinking you were wronged if you got beat up over something like that. more like you were asking for trouble and got what you had coming to you.

that's not exactly my presumption. more like, they are human. maybe they know already, or maybe not. your assumption is that they know the pics will go on the internet, but there's only one way to check and prove that assumption is correct: ask. if they say it's ok, it's ok. if they say it's not ok, its not.

basically, posting pics on the internet is an extra service that you're taking from her without her consent, and probably against her wishes, for free. it's not much different than doing anal on her against her wishes or having your buddy pop out of the bathroom unexpected. only difference is that she's probably not aware you're taking this extra service from her.

wendella- thank you for your excellent post- spot on in all regards.

[Titanio]

Guys, what is fastest / cheapest / best way to get from PP to Ho Chi Minh, please (on a Sunday)? Fly or boat or bus? Any info appreciated.

Mehkong Express Street 102. They do a daily trip. Best bus company in PP and very reliable.

[Bumholes1]

How long are the lines to get a visa-on-arrival at airport, please, and how much is it (from US). Still $25? Thanks for your help!

E Visas are the way to go. $25, and no full page sticker to fill up your passport.

Unfortunately not available for all overland crossings, where you can be scammed in to parting with payment in Thai baht of 1000 or more.

[Bartchamdo]

Guys, what is fastest / cheapest / best way to get from PP to Ho Chi Minh, please (on a Sunday)? Fly or boat or bus? Any info appreciated.

Bus is quickest and is generally preferred. For some odd reason that short flight is more expensive than you'd think. When you account for times to and from the airports involved and the extra cost it usually works out to be much cheaper to take the bus and it takes only a bit longer. I'd recommend a specific bus company, but haven't done the trip enough times to have a solid opinion. Others can advise you.

[Betong]

FYI visa on arrival can be quite a long wait.

I've been through a dozen or more times, most recently last week, and it's never taken more than about 20 minutes. By Cambodian standards that's a model of efficiency.

Another question! Who flies first class one hour from BKK to PP?

People who want to get through immigration asap?

P. S. For anyone really in a hurry, I think they still have the e-visa thing online.

[Wendella]

very restrained and polite response, so i'll try to do the same.

i never had a girl ask to take my picture. have you?

me either. maybe i'm just a 5 or a 6. but, if they did, would you let them? or what if the hotel had a hidden camera?

then there is a possibility of your image showing up on youtube.

true, and unlike you i would not be too thrilled about that. and if i was in pattaya and caught some joker focusing on me with some girl, i'd walk right up to him, grab his camera and offer him one last chance to delete those pics immediately. but there are some big differences in that situation: 1. like most members here, i don't stroll down walking street nude; 2. that's a public place-legally speaking, he as a right to take my photo there. a hotel room is not a public place, a person is entitled to expect privacy in a hotel room, and especially if they're nude.

we live in a world with hundreds of different sets of values.

true, but for a person to have ethics, they need to have one set that they abide by that pertains to themselves and also others. if they have one set of rules for themselves but it doesn't apply to others, that's what being unethical means. only reason i said anything was because that guy who posted on this said there was no 'moral reckoning' on this, that it's 'all good'. he's backing off now and just saying it happens and there's nothing anyone can do to stop it. ok but that's also true of all theft, [CodeWord123] and murder in the world, it doesn't make it ethical.

i always ask my ladies if it is alright with them to take pictures. some girls say no and i put the camera away. some girls say ok, but ask me not to show the pictures on the internet. yes they know about the internet. i agree and honor this request and do not post the pictures.

it sounds like you make some attempt to do it right. tho i'd say if you want to put them up in a public place like this on the internet, then you should ask. not just presume they know. if it was back in your own country, the girl would probably be able to take you to court for doing that. a bedroom is not a public place, and nudity is as private as it gets. and if she was a hooker, she probably could get some street justice instead, and i don't' think you'd find too many people thinking you were wronged if you got beat up over something like that. more like you were asking for trouble and got what you had coming to you.

so i think your assumption that these are naïve innocent girls that need your protection from predators with cameras is false.

that's not exactly my presumption. more like, they are human. maybe they know already, or maybe not. your assumption is that they know the pics will go on the internet, but there's only one way to check and prove that assumption is correct: ask. if they say it's ok, it's ok. if they say it's not ok, its not.

basically, posting pics on the internet is an extra service that you're taking from her without her consent, and probably against her wishes, for free. it's not much different than doing anal on her against her wishes or having your buddy pop out of the bathroom unexpected. only difference is that she's probably not aware you're taking this extra service from her.