Phnom Penh

[MrClen]

So sad to hear all this negativity. Having just returned from a multi-week sex romp through PP, Siem Reap, BKK, Patt, and Phuket, allow me to post a counterpoint.

Maybe I'm a little different than most here. I don't have months and years to live in these places as an expat, which is why I rarely post. But when I go, I do my research and make it count. This site is a big part of that research, BTW, so I want to give back a little. Just so you know where I'm coming from, I'm supremely picky. I'm looking for 9's and 10's, and would rather go home alone than accept anything less than an 8 in the looks department. But I also want the whole package. I've zeroed in on a looker, only to abandon plans if she didn't seem too into me (or at least acted like she was). If the enthusiasm isn't there at the bar, it won't get any better in bed. With that in mind, I had no problems finding 9 ladies, all good experiences. Limited mostly by tiring myself out with other activities rather than lack of choice (because I'm not just there for the sex). Ok, I guess if you count the two-girl threesome in PP, I guess it's only 8 encounters. Haha. But still.

I'm also not cheap. I don't quibble over a few dollars, and I don't mind paying premium for a premium experience. But I also always make an effort to bargain. Since about 95% of the providers frankly don't interest me, the ones who do tend to make high initial offers. Are they making a high offer because they know they can command a premium, or are they just throwing that out there to signal that they're not that interested in going home with me? The way to find out is if they signal a willingness to make a deal and counteroffer, or if they stick to their guns. If it's the latter, then I'm probably dealing with someone who'd rather do something else than go home with me, and the limited hours of my night are better spent looking elsewhere than continuing buying her drinks.

With all that in mind, of all the places I went.

Least productive: SR. There is some talent, if you can call it that. But very few, and nothing that meet my criteria. Didn't take the tuk tuk drivers up on their chicken farm offers, because usually that kind of thing turns into a wild goose chase. I saw some at the corner bars off Pub Street who I could easily have joined, but. Nah. Still, SR was magical. Especially now, without all the crowds. Everything is open but no crowds at all. Angkor is Zen-like, as it should be. Spent 5 days there and loved every minute. Just not a great place for P4 P.

Most choice: Well, BKK, hands down. I mean, nothing compares with just the sheer choice, sheer volume of opportunity. I don't care what anyone says. If you can't find what you're looking for in BKK, then there's no pleasing you.

But of all the places I went, it's the PP girls I still fantasize about. They're not nearly as jaded as the BKK girls, and what they lack in experience and menu of kinks on offer, they more than make up for in enthusiasm. Frankly, I don't ask them to do anything unsafe anyway, because I think that's just dumb. I just want as GFE-like an experience, while still being safe. And tbh, I think Khmer girls are just better looking than Thai overall. But that's a personal preference I suppose.

Didn't need to venture out to Darlin Darlin or any nightclubs. I did walk to Cyrcee once, and didn't find anything interesting, so I walked back. Everything I wanted was right there on Streets 136 and 130. Right now the girl-guy ratio in PP is 10:1 or better, so if you want a 10/10, she's there, waiting for you. I quickly learned I need not be shy about going in to take a look at the goings on inside the bars, and walking right out if nothing interested me, rather than wasting my time. Frankly, most of the talent on offer is outside the bar -literally legions of them meowing their "hellos" at every passing guy. Of which there are so, so few right now, compared to BKK or Patt. And we're talking Friday, Saturday night.

Maybe it's rude to go in and look, and walk out without buying a drink, but whatever, I'm the customer. They know what they're here for and what I'm here for, so it's not the time to be shy. The only time it's really needed to go into a bar, is if you see someone outside and decide you want to get to know her over a drink. Better yet, sit outside so you can hear yourselves talk.

I will say this much. There is a best time, and it seems to be just after dinner, but not too late. You want things to get going, and the girls are usually having some dinner themselves early on. You don't want them to be hangry, because even bar girls need a break, right? At the same time, if you don't want to settle for just any warm body, the best of the lookers may be taken by later in the night. That's also why I'm a little skeptical of the strategy of going to the clubs later if you strike out. I mean, by then, you're also getting ladies who've struck out. Maybe I'm totally wrong and you get a whole different crowd. After all, I didn't venture that far. But it's hard to imagine how I could have improved on my choices from the hostess bars.

As far as where to stay, just look no further than S&M, one of the best run hotels around. Great rooms, awesome pool, decent breakfast. And why deal with tuk tuks and waste precious hunting time going far away, when S&M is just steps away from guy heaven? Be warned though, they will be sticklers for ID's. The aforementioned two-girl experience had to be moved off-site, because they had fake IDs and the hotel wouldn't budge on their policy. The place turned out to be a $10 flophouse a few doors down (they explained it's usually $5, but $10 because I'm bringing 2 girls). Turned out for the better, as one of them was on her period (yikes!) and wound up making a mess on the bed. I am so glad it wasn't my bed! But both of them were beautiful. One was 8/10 (the one on her period), the other was just 10/10. I mean drop dead gorgeous. The first one was the only one who spoke any English though, and she negotiated the whole deal.

I really didn't encounter the whole phenomenon of girls who just sling lady drinks and don't go with customers. Everyone I met was more than ready. Frankly I didn't see a whole lot of Asian guys, so if they're waiting for the Korean that's going to pay $300 for ST, good luck nabbing him. There's literally hundreds of girls on Street 136, and maybe a couple of those golden geese will come by on any given night. The closest I came to encountering that attitude was a beauty who looked all of 18, if that, but was 23 according to her ID. She spoke decent English, university educated, and gave me the line that she rarely goes with customers, but I think she was just trying to raise her perceived value. I do think she doesn't go with all customers -bar girls can be picky too. She turned out to be the gentlest, most amazing GFE experience I had on the whole trip.

Costs: the least I paid was $50, the most was $80. All ST. Average about $60. Did I overpay? Yeah, probably a little. But so worth it.

First I agree with you! I would much rather spend my time and d0 llars on a pleasant, fun, girl, than bargaining with hard core bar girls no matter what her "skill" level happens to be. That said, my one and only PP experience, (so far), was during a semi business type where I went with some Korean friends. My go to experience is in the KTV's where you can have fun, drink a bit, play and get to know your choice or choices for the night. Yes it is more expensive than just getting a quickie off the street but I don't travel on a budget and don't think I have the mind set to negotiate pussy prices with a bar girl. This may have been ok when I was in my 20's and all I cared about was getting my tool wet, (note that I lived in BKK for one year then). I don't go KTV alone and most of my experience, for the past 20 years, has been in China. However Xi and his crackdowns have put some of the venues out of business but still available if you are known or have friends as your guide. A few of us on this forum still remember the "good old days", in ChangPing or ChangAn.

[BRCitizen]

Good post and congratulations on successfully navigating the scene.
...

But that is exactly the problem. We know it and the 10's know it, but the hardcore old slappers with aggressive attitudes don't always accept it. It's when they want the same (often unionised by the mama-sans) that punters start asking, Is this good value? Or bemused, they walk away.

Thank you. And of course the other part of the equation that some guys forget, is the customer. Okay, so it's a service industry, and they're there to make some money. But it's not all about money. As anyone who worked in the service industry can tell you, some clients are just pleasant to work with, and that's when you really like your job. Other clients are difficult, ornery, or just plain gross, and you'd rather not see them for any kind of money.

I try my best to be the first kind. You can't change your face or how old you are. But you can shower, shave, smile more, wear decent pants and shirt instead of cargo shorts. Just show like you're putting a little effort into the whole thing. Without looking too rich. There's a balance to be had.

[Meo Den]

So sad to hear all this negativity. Having just returned from a multi-week sex romp through PP, Siem Reap, BKK, Patt, and Phuket, allow me to post a counterpoint.

Costs: the least I paid was $50, the most was $80. All ST. Average about $60. Did I overpay? Yeah, probably a little. But so worth it.

Good post and congratulations on successfully navigating the scene.

I think perhaps the best part of your strategy was only focusing on exactly what you wanted. Those prices you paid look fair for GFEs with 10's; they would only be bad value if the women were unfriendly or unattractive. We have to allow for the fact that women who are younger, clearly prettier and just sweeter than the vast majority will know that they can command more.

But that is exactly the problem. We know it and the 10's know it, but the hardcore old slappers with aggressive attitudes don't always accept it. It's when they want the same (often unionised by the mama-sans) that punters start asking, Is this good value? Or bemused, they walk away.

You make a good point about how when women won't negotiate that they are quoting a fuck-off price. And it's always better to move on. Tell them what you pay before they can mention prices. Let them know your budget. It's called anchoring.

[BRCitizen]

So sad to hear all this negativity. Having just returned from a multi-week sex romp through PP, Siem Reap, BKK, Patt, and Phuket, allow me to post a counterpoint.

Maybe I'm a little different than most here. I don't have months and years to live in these places as an expat, which is why I rarely post. But when I go, I do my research and make it count. This site is a big part of that research, BTW, so I want to give back a little. Just so you know where I'm coming from, I'm supremely picky. I'm looking for 9's and 10's, and would rather go home alone than accept anything less than an 8 in the looks department. But I also want the whole package. I've zeroed in on a looker, only to abandon plans if she didn't seem too into me (or at least acted like she was). If the enthusiasm isn't there at the bar, it won't get any better in bed. With that in mind, I had no problems finding 9 ladies, all good experiences. Limited mostly by tiring myself out with other activities rather than lack of choice (because I'm not just there for the sex). Ok, I guess if you count the two-girl threesome in PP, I guess it's only 8 encounters. Haha. But still.

I'm also not cheap. I don't quibble over a few dollars, and I don't mind paying premium for a premium experience. But I also always make an effort to bargain. Since about 95% of the providers frankly don't interest me, the ones who do tend to make high initial offers. Are they making a high offer because they know they can command a premium, or are they just throwing that out there to signal that they're not that interested in going home with me? The way to find out is if they signal a willingness to make a deal and counteroffer, or if they stick to their guns. If it's the latter, then I'm probably dealing with someone who'd rather do something else than go home with me, and the limited hours of my night are better spent looking elsewhere than continuing buying her drinks.

With all that in mind, of all the places I went.

Least productive: SR. There is some talent, if you can call it that. But very few, and nothing that meet my criteria. Didn't take the tuk tuk drivers up on their chicken farm offers, because usually that kind of thing turns into a wild goose chase. I saw some at the corner bars off Pub Street who I could easily have joined, but. Nah. Still, SR was magical. Especially now, without all the crowds. Everything is open but no crowds at all. Angkor is Zen-like, as it should be. Spent 5 days there and loved every minute. Just not a great place for P4 P.

Most choice: Well, BKK, hands down. I mean, nothing compares with just the sheer choice, sheer volume of opportunity. I don't care what anyone says. If you can't find what you're looking for in BKK, then there's no pleasing you.

But of all the places I went, it's the PP girls I still fantasize about. They're not nearly as jaded as the BKK girls, and what they lack in experience and menu of kinks on offer, they more than make up for in enthusiasm. Frankly, I don't ask them to do anything unsafe anyway, because I think that's just dumb. I just want as GFE-like an experience, while still being safe. And tbh, I think Khmer girls are just better looking than Thai overall. But that's a personal preference I suppose.

Didn't need to venture out to Darlin Darlin or any nightclubs. I did walk to Cyrcee once, and didn't find anything interesting, so I walked back. Everything I wanted was right there on Streets 136 and 130. Right now the girl-guy ratio in PP is 10:1 or better, so if you want a 10/10, she's there, waiting for you. I quickly learned I need not be shy about going in to take a look at the goings on inside the bars, and walking right out if nothing interested me, rather than wasting my time. Frankly, most of the talent on offer is outside the bar -literally legions of them meowing their "hellos" at every passing guy. Of which there are so, so few right now, compared to BKK or Patt. And we're talking Friday, Saturday night.

Maybe it's rude to go in and look, and walk out without buying a drink, but whatever, I'm the customer. They know what they're here for and what I'm here for, so it's not the time to be shy. The only time it's really needed to go into a bar, is if you see someone outside and decide you want to get to know her over a drink. Better yet, sit outside so you can hear yourselves talk.

I will say this much. There is a best time, and it seems to be just after dinner, but not too late. You want things to get going, and the girls are usually having some dinner themselves early on. You don't want them to be hangry, because even bar girls need a break, right? At the same time, if you don't want to settle for just any warm body, the best of the lookers may be taken by later in the night. That's also why I'm a little skeptical of the strategy of going to the clubs later if you strike out. I mean, by then, you're also getting ladies who've struck out. Maybe I'm totally wrong and you get a whole different crowd. After all, I didn't venture that far. But it's hard to imagine how I could have improved on my choices from the hostess bars.

As far as where to stay, just look no further than S&M, one of the best run hotels around. Great rooms, awesome pool, decent breakfast. And why deal with tuk tuks and waste precious hunting time going far away, when S&M is just steps away from guy heaven? Be warned though, they will be sticklers for ID's. The aforementioned two-girl experience had to be moved off-site, because they had fake IDs and the hotel wouldn't budge on their policy. The place turned out to be a $10 flophouse a few doors down (they explained it's usually $5, but $10 because I'm bringing 2 girls). Turned out for the better, as one of them was on her period (yikes!) and wound up making a mess on the bed. I am so glad it wasn't my bed! But both of them were beautiful. One was 8/10 (the one on her period), the other was just 10/10. I mean drop dead gorgeous. The first one was the only one who spoke any English though, and she negotiated the whole deal.

I really didn't encounter the whole phenomenon of girls who just sling lady drinks and don't go with customers. Everyone I met was more than ready. Frankly I didn't see a whole lot of Asian guys, so if they're waiting for the Korean that's going to pay $300 for ST, good luck nabbing him. There's literally hundreds of girls on Street 136, and maybe a couple of those golden geese will come by on any given night. The closest I came to encountering that attitude was a beauty who looked all of 18, if that, but was 23 according to her ID. She spoke decent English, university educated, and gave me the line that she rarely goes with customers, but I think she was just trying to raise her perceived value. I do think she doesn't go with all customers -bar girls can be picky too. She turned out to be the gentlest, most amazing GFE experience I had on the whole trip.

Costs: the least I paid was $50, the most was $80. All ST. Average about $60. Did I overpay? Yeah, probably a little. But so worth it.

[Jimmy Boy 99]

He's not mentioning it in the post but I guess he's talking about San Paolo in Brazil.

Yes, he confirmed he was talking about Rio and Sao Paulo.

[The Cane]

What then Western Monger? Whence shall ye roam? Axel Heyst whispers tantalizingly of an alternative- a last redoubt for the Horny Western man- which I believe to be Brazil. I concur with the implications of his post- that in Brazil the primary market remains the local man, and so the scene remains healthy and robust with or without infusions of cash from the foreign Hobbyist. I only hope Rio does not become overrun with Westerners as Colombia has and is able to retain its charm- but let's be realistic.

It's too late bro! The cat has long been out of the bag regarding the delights of Brazil. If there's any consolation for the Western monger, it is that Brazil (and Latin America as a whole) shall remain within his sphere of control since the Koreans and the Chinese are not about to be arriving in droves anytime soon. Why, for many of them (Asians) Brazil is literally on the other side of the world! I as a monger cede Asia to the Asian then, but I stand ready to defend my backyard territory. Besides, I'm not attracted to most Asian women anyway hehehe! Give me the white girls and the Latinas LOL!

[SouthEaster]

I agree that over time, including the reintroduction of the Chinese plague, that the scene will continue to alienate the western monger but as mentioned earlier, there is a whole scene in Cambodia that caters to locals and very few westerns ever get to experience it. Some of the high rollers that have millions and like to show off may be spending 200 bucks for a girl, but if you think the average Cambodia male is paying that, think again. Can we please roll the clock back around 20 years? Pretty please?

[SouthEaster]

I agree that over time, including the reintroduction of the Chinese plague, that the scene will continue to alienate the western monger but as mentioned earlier, there is a whole scene in Cambodia that caters to locals and very few westerns ever get to experience it. Some of the high rollers that have millions and like to show off may be spending 200 bucks for a girl, but if you think the average Cambodia male is paying that, think again. Can we please roll the clock back around 20 years? Pretty please?

[AggieDad1]

There are a few broader trends that can be laid over the granular observations of changes on the ground- I think the most profound of which is the rise of local economies in the Asian region. For example, a trip to Angeles City in the Philippines will reveal a scene that has become completely dominated by Korean clientele, and one can see the handwriting on the wall that the Chinese monger in Cambodia, and the Indian monger in Thailand are ascendant and will gradually come to dominate those cities as the Koreans now do in Angeles.

Aside from the obvious marginalization of the Western customer base, this change brings with it a different attitude towards the hobby which is evident in the posts below. The Western monger comes alone, looking primarily for sex. Asian mongers (Chinese, Koreans, Indians, Japanese) operate in small groups of men (3-4) and the primary goal of the evening is fraternization and the strengthening of business ties with the second goal being sexual gratification. The "hostess" bar lends itself to this conceptualization, and we see a broader trend towards drink buying in all markets as the primary earning strategy as this customer base gains clout. Enter the Drink Queen.

To state the obvious- with China now re-opening, Phnom Penh will be swept clean of the Western monger and the scene will come to be dominated entirely by Chinese tastes and attitudes and business catering to this customer. Pattaya might hold out a bit longer as the Indian economy is still gathering strength and not as developed- but the trend is clear.

What then Western Monger? Whence shall ye roam? Axel Heyst whispers tantalizingly of an alternative- a last redoubt for the Horny Western man- which I believe to be Brazil. I concur with the implications of his post- that in Brazil the primary market remains the local man, and so the scene remains healthy and robust with or without infusions of cash from the foreign Hobbyist. I only hope Rio does not become overrun with Westerners as Colombia has and is able to retain its charm- but let's be realistic.

For a few more years at least Pattaya will remain viable, but let's be realistic about where this is all headed.

China's reopening will take time. While the recent announcement gives hope for a return to pre-covid times, what eventually happens is yet to be determined. What the Chinese government says and what it actually does is often at odds with each other. The average Chinese business man lost money during the pandemic like most business men everywhere. Still there are a lot of government officials in China that made fortunes during the pandemic and the question is will they be allowed to travel freely.

As for other areas you mentioned. Thailand and Philippines both have areas outside Angeles City and Pattaya where the monger can go and have success. I was recently in Hua Hin in Thailand and had a good time.

[RakSopheni]

I know you guys prefer BKK and or Pat over Phnom, but Thailand is going downhill too. Tell me I am wrong, I would love to hear that I am, but I have not been to LOS since 2019 and I keep postponing my return because, while Thailand was closed thanks to Covid, I found a better destination where the girls are unspoiled and where I can walk into any brothel or bordello and every girl in the place wants to show me a good time. My new preferred destination ain't cheap, but it is very, very good. Like the good old days in Phnom or BKK.

There are a few broader trends that can be laid over the granular observations of changes on the ground- I think the most profound of which is the rise of local economies in the Asian region. For example, a trip to Angeles City in the Philippines will reveal a scene that has become completely dominated by Korean clientele, and one can see the handwriting on the wall that the Chinese monger in Cambodia, and the Indian monger in Thailand are ascendant and will gradually come to dominate those cities as the Koreans now do in Angeles.

Aside from the obvious marginalization of the Western customer base, this change brings with it a different attitude towards the hobby which is evident in the posts below. The Western monger comes alone, looking primarily for sex. Asian mongers (Chinese, Koreans, Indians, Japanese) operate in small groups of men (3-4) and the primary goal of the evening is fraternization and the strengthening of business ties with the second goal being sexual gratification. The "hostess" bar lends itself to this conceptualization, and we see a broader trend towards drink buying in all markets as the primary earning strategy as this customer base gains clout. Enter the Drink Queen.

To state the obvious- with China now re-opening, Phnom Penh will be swept clean of the Western monger and the scene will come to be dominated entirely by Chinese tastes and attitudes and business catering to this customer. Pattaya might hold out a bit longer as the Indian economy is still gathering strength and not as developed- but the trend is clear.

What then Western Monger? Whence shall ye roam? Axel Heyst whispers tantalizingly of an alternative- a last redoubt for the Horny Western man- which I believe to be Brazil. I concur with the implications of his post- that in Brazil the primary market remains the local man, and so the scene remains healthy and robust with or without infusions of cash from the foreign Hobbyist. I only hope Rio does not become overrun with Westerners as Colombia has and is able to retain its charm- but let's be realistic.

For a few more years at least Pattaya will remain viable, but let's be realistic about where this is all headed.

[Thehedonist]

Care to tell us that destination?

He's not mentioning it in the post but I guess he's talking about San Paolo in Brazil.

[Volterra]

Of course it is both impolite and ineffective to tell people how they should spend their money.

But regarding 'just make more money at a faster rate', that doesn't work.

As distasteful as it is, the Realpolitik of the P4 P environment isn't about how much money the punters have, but how much the girls have.

When BJs are $500 it will be a question of whether you want to use two condoms or three.

And Financial Domination (FinDom) is a real thing. VolCels getting off on paying money for absolutely nothing other than to be abused.

Gentlemen (Meo Den, Kazeu, Axel, RakSopheni), thanks and I'm in agreement. It's the typical 'gentrification' effect of the mongering community, and I also sense (though don't have the current deep knowledge of Cambodian society) that there are deeper social reasons, as Axel points to. My wider dismay and alarm (greedy and lust driven, FinDom style, I confess), is that I may be missing the chance to jump on the few remaining bargain boats just as I start to gather my retirement pennies and plan my post-career party.

It seems that covid may have accelerated the process for girls no longer accepting peanuts for sex (even if they don't have a lot of money) in many jurisdictions. And in any case, they are definitely not interested in blind, innocent service with a smile as we approach 2023. You're right, even though I'm in Thailand right now, these gogo girls are completely blank and disinterested. Even if getting sex is still easy and affordable, for the moment, it's just not the same fun as a couple decades ago. Last night, I just gave up after see more hot girls barely moving and yawning on the dance stage. And the freaking tourist guys were like an alien invasion movie. Look, I'm one too, but I just can't account for the ape-like approach these guys have (and they look like glorified chimpanzees, I must say, LOL).

Better enjoy the last bastions while we can! Unless, by some divine intervention, there are new low-cost pleasure centres waiting to show themselves in the 2020's! Thrust ho!

[Meo Den]

Unfortunately this is the fate of all things good. When too many people know about the good things they become shit. The internet has just sped up its demise. This website does not help in the long run and also serves to ruin our playgrounds forever. But we cannot control what other people do with their money. To even suggest it seems to be taken badly by many on this site who retort with something along the lines of its my money and I will spend it how I damn well please. The only way to win is to just make more money at a faster rate than anyone else and then at the end when all these people have ruined things at least you can still afford the hobby and perhaps sadly say "I told you so".

Of course it is both impolite and ineffective to tell people how they should spend their money.

But regarding 'just make more money at a faster rate', that doesn't work.

As distasteful as it is, the Realpolitik of the P4 P environment isn't about how much money the punters have, but how much the girls have.

When BJs are $500 it will be a question of whether you want to use two condoms or three.

And Financial Domination (FinDom) is a real thing. VolCels getting off on paying money for absolutely nothing other than to be abused.

[Meo Den]

Care to tell us that destination?

Did you read his post?

[Jimmy Boy 99]

Snip. I found a better destination where the girls are unspoiled and where I can walk into any brothel or bordello and every girl in the place wants to show me a good time. My new preferred destination ain't cheap, but it is very, very good. Like the good old days in Phnom or BKK.

Care to tell us that destination?