Phnom Penh

[Rick Rock]

To me, it seems like the general rule is that the more supply there is in a place, the lower prices will be.

Supply and demand is secondary. The American School of Economics, which has done such a good job the world over (see: 2008) , likes to pretend that's it's primary, but it's not.

The first thing that matters is reproduction. A person simply cannot sell their time / labor for a rate that won't allow them to eat, sleep, etc. (reproduce themselves and their availability). If you can't eat, you certainly can't work in a factory or a bar or anywhere else. After that supply and demand has a regulating effect.

So when talking about prices, you first have to consider how much the girl needs to house herself, feed herself, get around, get her clothes and nails painted, etc. While a Korean girl in a massage joint in NYC may need thousands per month for this kind of upkeep, a Khmer girl in Phnom Penh can do it for next to nothing. And that matters.

Now, you do have the "Big Willies," 5 day millionaires, the "elites", and those nicking UN / NGO / Charity funds for themselves for whom the money flows like water. Good for them. Of course the girls will go for what they can get. I would too. Glad some of that filters to ladies who need it to. But for the general monger, it's bullshit. Especially when you hear all the stories about the great value of Cambodia, including on this board, even recently. The reality simply doesn't much up.

A girl ten times poorer than a girl in the country next door wants the same rate for doing less. Something is really wrong with that picture.

New York has the biggest concentration of wealth in the world, plenty of full time big spenders, and yet there are hundreds of 7-9 Korean girls in their early 20's available at massage parlors 24/7 for $200 a pop. Average rent in Manhattan is over $3000 a month. What is it in Phnom Penh? So when they ask $50 for ST in Phnom Penh, it's really just insane.

And speaking of supply and demand, like I said, I was the ONLY guy in 90% of the bars I stopped in, early evening, midnight, early morning, didn't matter, and didn't seem to effect prices a lick.

With Thailand and Vietnam being right next door, the place just doesn't make sense for mongering.

[Rick Rock]

I'm talking about main mongering destinations, like Angeles City (ST 700 pesos on Raymond Street 24 hours a day for example. 1500-2000 pesos is for a LT in a bar including barfine, girl stays with you often approaching 24 hours). Manila has available girls as does almost any city, but it's not the main spot for foreigners to monger in the Philippines. AC is.

BKK isn't the main mongering spot in Thailand. Quite a lot of mongering there, but clearly Pattaya draws in a lot more punters. On Soi 6 (which even as one street has more bars than all of Phnom Penh combined) in Pattaya it's 1000 baht or less for ST on the spot. On Soi 7 and 8, it's easy to get LT for 1000. On Beach Road, freelancers go for even less. 500 baht short time all day. BKK also isn't comparable to Phnom Penh, because it has things like traffic lights, stop signs and even a train. Phnom Penh is more like an African city than anything approaching Bangkok.

HK you can get $33 ST all day and all night in walk ups which you can find on 141 etc. Thai girls, PRC girls. Many, especially Thai girls, none older than 25. Quite easy and quite possible. I know a place around North Point where there are 5 Thai girls working at all times, all under 25, $30 ST.

Phnom Penh, you go to Cyrcee, they want 15-20 + drink + barfine + ST room. You end up spending 30-40 for a blow and go, pump and dump. Take a short trip next door to Thailand, set up in Pattaya, pull LT from Beer Bars any day you want for 1000-1300 baht. Average income in Thailand is more than 200% what it is in Phnom Penh, so you explain to me how that works.

I think overpaid NGO losers and UN abusers have simply blown the prices completely out of proportion. Combine that with the dollar and you have a recipe for ST equaling an average month income.

[Wendella]

The prices just don't match the country though, place and simple, even at the rates you're saying.

Maybe a reason the prices don't match per capita GDP is because those aren't the factors that drive the market prices. I tend to think the prices are what they are because that's what the girls are able to charge and succeed at getting. Free market in other words. GDP not really relevant. The prices are set by the market that, and the market doesn't include the salaries of office workers, farmers, oil revenues, etc. But just the girls who are willing to sell and the guys who are willing to buy. The scene in PP is tiny compared to BKK and Pattaya. It's also developed a lot in the last 10 years to include a lot more higher end venues, and over that time places like Martini and Sharky have been displaced by a variety of places generally at higher prices.

To me, it seems like the general rule is that the more supply there is in a place, the lower prices will be. Lots of poor countries don't have much of a scene, and what they do have is not cheap.

Your overall impression that it's not worth a visit compared to Pattaya does seem right though. The place doesn't merit a visit if one is mainly after that one thing. If you happen to be in town, then it's acceptable. But definitely the situation is better in Thailand.

[RCA Knight]

Rick Rock, your average ST for Thailand, Phil, HK, are on the very very low end. I don't think it is the real overall average. For 30 USD or 900 bahts, I think in Capital Bangkok, you can only get older unattractive stand alone street workers, or Pattaya soi 6 or Beach walkers. In Manila as well. 17 USD can only get you the very bottom of the barrel in freelancer scene. For a decent girl in MBC, the average is more like 2000 pesos up or 50 USD. 33 USD in HK, the most likely choice is only the sex 141 type apartment older massage ladies with 30 min session. But the 33 USD average ST in Phnom Penh, you are talking about girls from karaoke pick bars, the freelancer are cheaper than that.

So we are comparing all these capitals, upcountry are a different story in these nations, My average in my experiences for a "doable girl" will be this (exclude bar fines if have any)

Phnom Penh 30-40USD.

Bangkok 1500-2000 bahts.

Manila 2000-3000 pesos.

HK 700-1000HKD

[Waste Mgmt]

Actually, I never brought up the prospect of leaving with them as I was usually still enjoying my first drink. Each and every time (except when I stopped on the bar on 51) they brought it up to me. So it wasn't a question of me just rolling in and treating it like a brothel. The prices just don't match the country though, place and simple, even at the rates you're saying.

Cambodia 159th in GDP per capita. Average monthly income = $30. Average ST $33 USD.

Thailand 94th in GDP per capita. Average monthly income = $683. Average ST $30 USD.

Philippines 133rd in GDP per capita. Average monthly income = $142. Average ST $17 USD.

Hong Kong 28th in GDP per capita. Average monthly income = $1353. Average ST $33 USD.

Does that seem right to you?

This place seems to be totally skewed on prices, probably largely because of the dollarized economy. I pay more for coffee and ST here than I do in Philippines or Thailand. From what people have told me, rent here for a Western style apartment is double what it costs for a new condo unit in the Philippines. Heading to the airport now to check out Bangkok. Want to get some enjoyment on my holiday. Enjoy your overpriced ST's and lack of sidewalks my friend.

All in good fun of course. The value just isn't there for me. I'll chalk it up to experience. Thanks for the help from those who offered.

I don't know where you got the $30 per month average income figure. More like $70 on the low end in PP. A maid in an ok hotel is making close to $100 with her tips, to put it in perspective.

I will agree that the quoted rates for 1 time customers is high. A fair share of PP bar girls are selective as to who they go with, just because of the pricing. They don't have to fuck every night. The other poster was right- it's different than Thailand or many other places where the girls would prefer you make up your mind quick, take them short term so they can get back to the bar and get another. A lot of girls in PP want or need to be somewhat comfortable with you before they go. Honestly, the only place I ever even talk price was Martini. Might be a good idea with the more hardened lot in HoD too. Besides that,"up to you" is the standard reply I used to get anyway, so I quit asking. I prefer the girls who don't talk money up front. My experience is that the more obsessed with the money aspect up front, the worse the performance, GFE, and the more likely a bullshit reason to leave early after the first pop. I've never had a girl upset with $30 in the morning.

[Rick Rock]

Actually, I never brought up the prospect of leaving with them as I was usually still enjoying my first drink. Each and every time (except when I stopped on the bar on 51) they brought it up to me. So it wasn't a question of me just rolling in and treating it like a brothel. The prices just don't match the country though, place and simple, even at the rates you're saying.

Cambodia 159th in GDP per capita. Average monthly income = $30. Average ST $33 USD.

Thailand 94th in GDP per capita. Average monthly income = $683. Average ST $30 USD.

Philippines 133rd in GDP per capita. Average monthly income = $142. Average ST $17 USD.

Hong Kong 28th in GDP per capita. Average monthly income = $1353. Average ST $33 USD.

Does that seem right to you?

This place seems to be totally skewed on prices, probably largely because of the dollarized economy. I pay more for coffee and ST here than I do in Philippines or Thailand. From what people have told me, rent here for a Western style apartment is double what it costs for a new condo unit in the Philippines. Heading to the airport now to check out Bangkok. Want to get some enjoyment on my holiday. Enjoy your overpriced ST's and lack of sidewalks my friend.

All in good fun of course. The value just isn't there for me. I'll chalk it up to experience. Thanks for the help from those who offered.

[DiscoBaby]

Sounds like a good idea. Obviously you and Phnom Penh don't get on very well!

After reading your posts, I went to about six different bars, on Streets 104 and 118, to reassure myself that what you are saying isn't strictly true.

My approach is to take a bit of time with the girls in each bar. PP is not like Pattaya, girls here sometimes don't like the "hello, how much for LT" approach. Sometimes you need to slow down a bit and talk to them. After half an hour of them chatting to you and getting to know you a bit, they will ask a much lower price.

On my visits I was quoted $30-$40 for long time (from good-looking girls, not slappers). Plus the $7-10 barfine. One girl did ask for $50 but came back down to $35 when she realised I wasn't going to fall for her high first offer.

Very true. I think the girls just try it on right away if they think you are a bit new to the scene. One thing I tend to do when I get an over-inflated price, I walk away from the girl to another place in the bar and check out the others around. 9 out of 10 times, they come back with a better price.

[Guitar7997]

As with most hostess bars, the best time to go for the biggest selection of girls and when they are most wide-awake, is from about 7. 30pm. But if you want a more fun atmosphere, still with loads of girls, go to the bars from 10. 30pm onwards.

Rose bar has 25+ girls, Golden Vine and Zapata about 22 each, so I'm sure you'll find someone that you want to take back to your hotel! Expect to pay $30-40 for all night from these bars, plus the $7-10 barfine.

AussieGuy100, thanks again for another dose of generous information. With other board members assuring Golden Vine, I think that is the first place I ought to visit. With so many bars in PP, I just wish my trip could be longer.

[AussieGuy100]

Same shit tonight. Girls on 104 giving lot of attention, groping, kissing, etc in bar, but when ask about going out they want $10 barfine + $30 barfine for "two hour or until you cum". Talked them down to 25 and 20, but still too fucking much. 20+10+short time room you're talking 1100 baht, and an average month income here. Same as I'm paying in Pattaya and Angeles City and this place is twice as poor. The prices just don't make sense, especially since once again I was the only punter in all 4 bars I visited. I chose no one. Fuck this place. I got mislead on the value here. I'm going to Bangkok tomorrow, getting out of here earlier than planned.

Sounds like a good idea. Obviously you and Phnom Penh don't get on very well!

After reading your posts, I went to about six different bars, on Streets 104 and 118, to reassure myself that what you are saying isn't strictly true.

My approach is to take a bit of time with the girls in each bar. PP is not like Pattaya, girls here sometimes don't like the "hello, how much for LT" approach. Sometimes you need to slow down a bit and talk to them. After half an hour of them chatting to you and getting to know you a bit, they will ask a much lower price.

On my visits I was quoted $30-$40 for long time (from good-looking girls, not slappers). Plus the $7-10 barfine. One girl did ask for $50 but came back down to $35 when she realised I wasn't going to fall for her high first offer.

I do know that quite often Americans are quoted higher prices here.

There are also plenty of hot freelancers around Sorya Mall on St 51, and at Pontoon after 11pm, who will happily go with you all night for $20. Martinis is also occasionally a good hunting ground for cheap but decent FL's but it is a bit hit-and-miss on quality. It sometimes takes a couple of visits to score a real gem.

[Loso69]

I was the only punter in all 4 bars I visited.

That should be a clue Why do you keep going back to those bloody hostess bars? PP isn't Patty or BKK. There's no need to buy LDs or pay BFs. The freelancer scene is where the value is. Go to the mall, the Heart or Pontoon!

Loso

[Rick Rock]

Same shit tonight. Girls on 104 giving lot of attention, groping, kissing, etc in bar, but when ask about going out they want $10 barfine + $30 barfine for "two hour or until you cum". Talked them down to 25 and 20, but still too fucking much. 20+10+short time room you're talking 1100 baht, and an average month income here. Same as I'm paying in Pattaya and Angeles City and this place is twice as poor. The prices just don't make sense, especially since once again I was the only punter in all 4 bars I visited. I chose no one. Fuck this place. I got mislead on the value here. I'm going to Bangkok tomorrow, getting out of here earlier than planned.

[Tiger 888]

You will get a better exchange rate in PP than in Thailand for your baht. On street 136 near the Central Market (just before all the pharmacies) there are money changers. Try a couple of them to compare, the spread is actually quite good.

I doubt that. The spread for THB / USD at Superrich in Bangkok is sometimes just 2 Satang. Right no Buying 31. 35, selling 31. 37. (sorry, the spaces in my numbers are automated and unavoidable).

http://www.superrichthailand.com/editor/rate.html

[Rick Rock]

I stopped in a bar on 51st yesterday, might have even been at Pit Stop. Don't remember the name. Two different girls said 50 LT. Same thing at the various random bars I stopped around 104 and the River. As far as I know, none of them were famous. I was the only punter in every single bar I stopped in except one, started around 7 and ended around 3 am.

I just find it weird that I get a lot lower quotes from girls of the same quality or better in a hardcore (and more expensive) mongering location like Pattaya than here.

[Hatguy]

Don't get me wrong, I had fun with the girls. But $50 LT is fucking ridiculous in Cambodia, where according to all sources I come across, average income is $30 A MONTH.

Is this REALLY the standard asking rate here?

Is there no LT to be had for $30 or less anymore (from girls actually worth fucking of course)? I guess the stories I heard were from a part time.

You can get them for $30 LT. I had one in particular which I REALLY liked from Pitstop bar. She is now out of the game. But you have to stay away from the big and famous places. Ie. The ones on THIS VERY BOARD! Haha!

Mind you it also will depend on whether the girl likes you. I had one girl (albeit in a different country) come up to me while I was sitting at the bar and tell me she REALLY liked me. This turned out to be true. The GFE was great and since she was HOT I really got off on it. The same thing can be said for the above one from Pitstop. She really liked me as well. Did not want to leave and snuggled up to me in bed really nice GFE!

[Rick Rock]

Don't get me wrong, I had fun with the girls. But $50 LT is fucking ridiculous in Cambodia, where according to all sources I come across, average income is $30 A MONTH.

Is this REALLY the standard asking rate here?

Is there no LT to be had for $30 or less anymore (from girls actually worth fucking of course)? I guess the stories I heard were from a part time.