North China - Beijing

[Bad Boy Billy]

I have an upcoming short visit to China which is more or less completely open in terms of where I go ........Any thoughts or suggestions for other destinations with WG clubs?.........I know HK and Shanghai are possibilities, but I've been to both cities and I'd like to visit somewhere new.

IMHO. For non-Chinese speaking Western guys who want the bar type pick-up scene then only SH and BJ offer this. SH has Manhattan, Judys, Bar Rouge, Revolution, Luna (Xin Tian Di in general) , Zapatas, old Bourbon St whatever it is called now etc.

BJ has Maggies, Chocolate, Pig, Hollywood, Den, Suzy Wongs etc.

IMHO very little price difference between SH and BJ. Major bar in both cities - Manhattan in Sh and Maggies in BJ the w.hores want RMB1, 000 ea - Viets in SH. Mongols in BJ.

YES YES many other breeds available - Ruskies in both SH and BJ want RMB2,000+ LT.

Jsxyz I assume you are a take out / take back to your hotel type of guy?

I know of no other city that will give you a number of pick-up options from open FL bar types of outlets. Dongguan in south mainly take out from BBS no on site drinks etc.

Does that help? I often find myself in similar situation. 2 or 3 nights where I can go where I please. Tianjin was good 5 to 8 years ago. Nanjing was good 5 to 8 years ago. Alas now seems only SH or BJ.

[Jsxyz]

Since the quality and service at Maggie's is being discussed.

I've visited BJ twice in the past year, the first time visiting Maggie's but not partaking in any services; the second time indulging twice. Once mediocre and once the quintessential "Mongolian treatment" with a lovely slightly older woman who stayed all night, had breakfast with me, and never discussed $$. Even with such limited experience I do get the sentiment of the current discussions; I've been in Maggie's maybe 4 or 5 times in those two visits and I've never been knocked out by the available talent. Still, I quite like the setup, and therein lies my question:

I have an upcoming short visit to China which is more or less completely open in terms of where I go (I'm meeting up with my S. O. Who will be in Eastern China on business, but before I meet her I'm planning a few days somewhere else). What are some other cities that have clubs like Maggie's and The Pig? I'm not at all into BBS, and KTV I think is out for a non-native laowei with essentially zero Mandarin. I really enjoy the atmosphere of a bar where I can get easy take out if something tickles my fancy, but where I can just drink at semi-reasonable prices in peace if that's the way my night is going.

Any thoughts or suggestions for other destinations with WG clubs? I know HK and Shanghai are possibilities, but I've been to both cities (though with the S. O. So haven't partaken in extracurriculars) and I'd like to visit somewhere new. Also I think both of those options are going to be top-shelf in terms of $$$, more than even BJ I suspect.

Many thanks in advance!

[DavidCanada1979]

I agree with this 100, hard to get value (even in China) when the starting rates are now $1000 RMB.

Clearly a number of brothers have similar feelings about Maggies. But I would like to clarify the point I tried to make in my original post.

I never said MAGGIES was almost dead. I said the LEGEND of Maggies was almost dead.

I have NEVER had a bad experience with a Mongolian. I do not subscribe to this bullshit theory that you never ask price as price is understood. Crap. Never EVER in my life have I ever engaged the services of a w. Hore without 100% clarification of what price and level of service will be provided. And if said level of service is not forthcoming then level of payment may well be revised. Economis 101. And the Mongols are smart enough to understand this.

When I first started going to Maggies it was RMB500. Then RMB600. Then RMB800. And now RMB1, 000. 500 and 600 rates were in old Maggies. If you are not a long standing visitor to Maggies having been to both old and new Maggies pre-Olympics. Then you may not understand the thrust of my post.

Pre-Olympics at both M1 and M2 there was a month by month continual turnover in supply of fresh young Mongol students coming and going for 1 to 2 to 3 to 4 week periods to earn a few sheckels for their studies. These were genuine 'part timers'. They would offer a level of fresh enthusistic service that I had experienced nowhere else in the world. And they were intelligent. The whole experience was unique.

Come the Olympic crack down and the freedom to easliy visit, easily find customers, easily ply their new found trade was swept away from these girls. And hence so did the supply of girls coming into town. What we were then left with was basically the same talent pool. Who have been progressively getting older and older by the year. And some of them were well past their use by dates pre-Olympic period IMHO.

So whilst Maggies still does exist and prosper to some extent. My view of the 'Legend of Maggies' is DEAD. That is I cannot visit every 6 or 8 weeks and find a fresh young talent supply ready to please. Many of whom I would never see again. Rather I am confronted by the same old line up of 'town bikes' visit after visit after visit.

I have no problem paying RMB1, 000 at the drop of a hat. I happily pay RMB1, 500 for a superstar. Hell I paid RMB2, 000 in November for a certain superstar who I have wanted to peg for quite some time. But I really get disappointed if I have to settle for the same old tired line-up of 'matress workers' and no choice of a sweet young new thing.

I will be back in BJ maybe late this month. Definitely late March. And I will definitely be trawling Maggies nightly. But IMHO this is now Maggies 3. God I miss Maggies 1 a Maggies 2.

[Bad Boy Billy]

Clearly a number of brothers have similar feelings about Maggies. But I would like to clarify the point I tried to make in my original post.

I never said MAGGIES was almost dead. I said the LEGEND of Maggies was almost dead.

I have NEVER had a bad experience with a Mongolian. I do not subscribe to this bullshit theory that you never ask price as price is understood. Crap. Never EVER in my life have I ever engaged the services of a w.hore without 100% clarification of what price and level of service will be provided. And if said level of service is not forthcoming then level of payment may well be revised. Economis 101. And the Mongols are smart enough to understand this.

When I first started going to Maggies it was RMB500. Then RMB600. Then RMB800. And now RMB1, 000. 500 and 600 rates were in old Maggies. If you are not a long standing visitor to Maggies having been to both old and new Maggies pre-Olympics - then you may not understand the thrust of my post.

Pre-Olympics at both M1 and M2 there was a month by month continual turnover in supply of fresh young Mongol students coming and going for 1 to 2 to 3 to 4 week periods to earn a few sheckels for their studies. These were genuine 'part timers'. They would offer a level of fresh enthusistic service that I had experienced nowhere else in the world. And they were intelligent. The whole experience was unique.

Come the Olympic crack down and the freedom to easliy visit, easily find customers, easily ply their new found trade was swept away from these girls. And hence so did the supply of girls coming into town. What we were then left with was basically the same talent pool - who have been progressively getting older and older by the year. And some of them were well past their use by dates pre-Olympic period IMHO.

So whilst Maggies still does exist and prosper to some extent. My view of the 'Legend of Maggies' is DEAD. That is I cannot visit every 6 or 8 weeks and find a fresh young talent supply ready to please - many of whom I would never see again - rather I am confronted by the same old line up of 'town bikes' visit after visit after visit.

I have no problem paying RMB1,000 at the drop of a hat. I happily pay RMB1,500 for a superstar. Hell I paid RMB2,000 in November for a certain superstar who I have wanted to peg for quite some time. But I really get disappointed if I have to settle for the same old tired line-up of 'matress workers' and no choice of a sweet young new thing.

I will be back in BJ maybe late this month - definitely late March - and I will definitely be trawling Maggies nightly. But IMHO this is now Maggies 3. God I miss Maggies 1 a Maggies 2.

[Hendrik]

Interesting to read the reactions to Hendrik's post.

I am also surprised that many of you make similar experiences. I was probably hoping that it was just me making bad choices or having bad luck during the last months.

... had some of the most amazing nights of my life with Mongolian girls and never ever negotiated or even talked about price, not one runner. Never paid more than1000 discretely in the morning and without prior consent they never left before a nice joint breakfast. The key is how you treat them. I could repeat all I wanted, as much as that I got preferential status aka they skipped other appointments for me.

That's exactly what I am missing!

Anyhow, it's a conundrum because until the guys who pay start to do so, the ladies who sell will evaporate to other clubs and other cities. But many of the guys want the real young ones and those are just not available at M's. C'est la vie.

At any rate, I still enjoy the music there, and it's still a great place to drink and watch people.

I also hear complaints from the older girls that times have changed and the business is not as it used to be. On the other hand, Maggies is still packed at least during the week-ends, and I do see girls regularly leaving with male company throughout the night.

I am just wondering if there is not a way to stop this downward spiral by supporting the good girls and not paying attention to the others ones. I am not suggesting to explicitly start mentioning names again on this board on order to protect the girls, but if all of us started giving clear feedback to the girls on pricing and performance, I am sure that it would quickly make the round amongst the different tribes and eventually force them re-think their business model.

I would hate to see Maggies just becoming a nice bar with great music, that is open until 5am.

[Beijing Fox]

Interesting to read the reactions to Hendrik's post.

I have not been a proactive visitor / client to Maggie's since the Olympics. So I cannot comment on the current situation, but I was a 'regular' (= 2-3 times a week) before the Olympics.

When the problems started, I happened to find a steady 'solution', which is still ongoing.

Already then, there were a couple of bad apples, initially asking for 2, 000 etc. In advance and then leaving after the first shot. However those bad experiences were always compensated by other stellar ones.

If those are not longer to have, then really, Maggie's is dead.

RIP.

I agree with you

[El Frances]

This overpaying situation was clear to me 2 years ago and I was flamed when I said it then.

Maggies is dead but its been dead for years now. Ever since the price went up from 600RMB. I only ever saw one decent looking girl in there although admittedly I rarely went there because the place was a joke. Pay way over the odds and wait around until 2am to get any action. Talk about dictating terms!

I agree with you

[FernandoAlonso]

Funny,

I also rarely go there but had some of the most amazing nights of my life with Mongolian girls and never ever negotiated or even talked about price, not one runner. Never paid more than1000 discretely in the morning and without prior consent they never left before a nice joint breakfast. The key is how you treat them. I could repeat all I wanted, as much as that I got preferential status aka they skipped other appointments for me.

True is nevertheless we live in a crackdown and a economical crisis and finding real quality is now a matter of a private phonelist. The few left stunners have all become captive, they never show up in the convent again anymore which does not necessarily mean they are not available but all related to p4p has become more hidden and expensive in Beijing, this is also what you see concerning the Northern sisters. This is the harsh reality of a developping China! But as said with some effort gems still can be found and enjoyed! Agreed with my mates paying 1500 plus for an average Mongolian is plainly stupid IMHO but happens quite frequently and why should the girls say no? This is a free market and some idiots pay even 2000 to 3000, so of course prices go up! 600 rmb is gone a long time, same like paying a dollar for a gallon regular.

Just my two cents.

FA.

This overpaying situation was clear to me 2 years ago and I was flamed when I said it then.

People not thinking things through and not doing a correct comparison is the problem. Most office grls in China get paid around 6, 000RMB per month. Most office girls in Western countries get paid around $3, 000 per month. Most office girls in Mongolia (if they can even get a job) get around 4, 000RMB equivalent per month. Paying a Mongolian girl 1, 500RMB is like paying a girl in a Western country $1, 000.

Maggies is dead but its been dead for years now. Ever since the price went up from 600RMB. I only ever saw one decent looking girl in there although admittedly I rarely went there because the place was a joke. Pay way over the odds and wait around until 2am to get any action. Talk about dictating terms!

[Bowerboy]

This overpaying situation was clear to me 2 years ago and I was flamed when I said it then.

People not thinking things through and not doing a correct comparison is the problem. Most office grls in China get paid around 6, 000RMB per month. Most office girls in Western countries get paid around $3, 000 per month. Most office girls in Mongolia (if they can even get a job) get around 4, 000RMB equivalent per month. Paying a Mongolian girl 1, 500RMB is like paying a girl in a Western country $1, 000.

Maggies is dead but its been dead for years now. Ever since the price went up from 600RMB. I only ever saw one decent looking girl in there although admittedly I rarely went there because the place was a joke. Pay way over the odds and wait around until 2am to get any action. Talk about dictating terms!

[Canada]

I have not been to Beijing since late November but I will be back in February. I was at M's and there are a few girls asking ridiculous prices but I took out a couple of girls I knew and gave them 1000 in the morning and they were happy. I think 1000 is still the price for the regulars. I have a couple girls that I regulary see every 3 months and they are happy with 1000. I think there are new guys going there and paying 1500 and the girls will gladly take a higher fee. I will be in BJ this month so I will see for myself.

[Kajos]

Anyone tried ChinBro's escort service yet? Or have another one to recommend? PM'ed ChinBro a few days ago but looks like he hasn't been online in a while.

Since I'm a newbie here, I would like to share a good escort service contact with brothers here. Hope it's useful to you.

I got the contact from one of my good friends several days ago. I've called two hottest girls already. They're really wonderful.

The girls there charge RMB 600 for one hour, and 1500 for overnight.

[The Tanuki]

I believe the the fact that there is no longer that continual coming and going of fresh new talent which was previously so easy for the Mongol students looking to do 2 to 3 weeks in Beijing. The customer base has been decimated by GFC. Now the same bunch of hardened / past their use by date w. Hores are trying to maintain the income levels they were accustomed to before by increasing prices. Decreasing time and performance to a decreasing pool of potential customers.

I no longer look forward to Beijing / Maggies visits like I did. I now try to avoid Beijing wherever possible. I basically no longer post in this thread because I rarely come to Beijing now and IMHO there is nothing much worth posting.

Again IMHO the legend of Maggies is just about DEAD.

Nice to spend my 400th post responding to BBB again. Thought you'd fallen into a trap in Angeles or something, mate! Good to hear from you!

As I've been hanging with a steady woman, I have not been hunting at M's in quite some time, merely watching the scenes unfold there. What I see is that mostly nobody is buying, hence you have a decrease in new sellers. There does seem to be a number of guys who are more than happy to shower attention and bottles of liquor on the M's girls, which surprises me. Anyhow, it's a conundrum because until the guys who pay start to do so, the ladies who sell will evaporate to other clubs and other cities. But many of the guys want the real young ones and those are just not available at M's. C'est la vie.

At any rate, I still enjoy the music there, and it's still a great place to drink and watch people.

TT

[Bad Boy Billy]

Do I get old and start glorifying the good ol'times, or do you also notice a declining service

Absolutely 100%

I also encounter more and more price negotiations, which were the exception 4-5 years ago. When I discuss this with the girls, I often hear that they have to do this, as they have more and more customers not paying according to their expectations. I am a frequent visitors to Maggies and am always paying the usual rates (1000 for ST and 1500 for LT) , but it seems that this does not prevent me from such negotiations.........Do you observe similar things recently?

Have noticed this for past 6 months or so. Had a terrible response from my best double header duo last time in Beijing. After 5 repeat daytime liaisons with these 2. Each time at RMB1,000ea for 2 hours 2 shots. They rejected my standard invitation and demanded RMB1,500ea. Told them to go get fucked. Saw one in Maggies later that night and bought ALL the girls around her multiple drinks but did not buy her one drink. W.hore.

I am by no means a regular at Maggies but I do get in there whenever I am in Beijing. I have also noticed a big change in attitude and increased hard negotiations over the years. Used to be, you knew the price and paid it. Now, they start out quoting riduculous money e. G as much as 3, 000. And, IMHO, the service quality is deteriorating both physically and mentally. I used to say that I never had bad service from a Mongolian but that is not the case anymore. I did find a couple of bad apples on my last 2 visits.

IMHO the legend of Maggies is just about dead. Just about DEAD.

Attitudes have hardened significantly and I believe the whole Maggies experience has deteriorated significantly post the pre-Olympics close down.

I believe the the fact that there is no longer that continual coming and going of fresh new talent which was previously so easy for the Mongol students looking to do 2 to 3 weeks in Beijing. The customer base has been decimated by GFC. Now the same bunch of hardened / past their use by date w.hores are trying to maintain the income levels they were accustomed to before by increasing prices - decreasing time and performance to a decreasing pool of potential customers.

I no longer look forward to Beijing / Maggies visits like I did. I now try to avoid Beijing wherever possible. I basically no longer post in this thread because I rarely come to Beijing now and IMHO there is nothing much worth posting.

Again IMHO the legend of Maggies is just about DEAD.

[OldAsiaHand]

Do I get old and start glorifying the good ol'times, or do you also notice a declining service mentality of our Mongolian providers?

Of course there are still many providers with impeccable attitudes, but it happens more and more frequently, that we agree on LT until the next morning, go home, have sex for 15-30 minutes until the girl tells me that she is tired and wants to sleep. OK, I think, these girls have a tiring job, and we can still have another round after some sleep. In the morning, the girl suddenly jumps out of the bed telling me that she has to leave immediately for some urgent business (e. G. Shopping with a friend) and that she is very sorry that she cannot stay longer. Of course she is expecting to be paid for LT, although I effectively got ST.

Last night, I explicitly agreed on LT with 2 rounds for 1500 with a girl, that I had once before and that gave me a good time then. This time, however, it unfolded exactly as described: 20 min sex and no sex at all in the morning. I told her that I consider this not line with our agreement and gave her only 1200 instead of the agreed 1500. She started a big scene telling me I am not keeping our agreement and that her usual rates are 1500 for ST and 3000 LT (yeah, start dreaming!). I threw her out of my apartment wondering what had gone wrong here.

I also encounter more and more price negotiations, which were the exception 4-5 years ago. When I discuss this with the girls, I often hear that they have to do this, as they have more and more customers not paying according to their expectations. I am a frequent visitors to Maggies and am always paying the usual rates (1000 for ST and 1500 for LT) , but it seems that this does not prevent me from such negotiations.

Do you observe similar things recently?

Hendrik,

I am by no means a regular at Maggies but I do get in there whenever I am in Beijing. I have also noticed a big change in attitude and increased hard negotiations over the years. Used to be, you knew the price and paid it. Now, they start out quoting riduculous money e. G as much as 3, 000. And, IMHO, the service quality is deteriorating both physically and mentally. I used to say that I never had bad service from a Mongolian but that is not the case anymore. I did find a couple of bad apples on my last 2 visits.

Just my POV.

OAH

[Hendrik]

Do I get old and start glorifying the good ol'times, or do you also notice a declining service mentality of our Mongolian providers?

Of course there are still many providers with impeccable attitudes, but it happens more and more frequently, that we agree on LT until the next morning, go home, have sex for 15-30 minutes until the girl tells me that she is tired and wants to sleep. OK, I think, these girls have a tiring job, and we can still have another round after some sleep. In the morning, the girl suddenly jumps out of the bed telling me that she has to leave immediately for some urgent business (e. g. shopping with a friend) and that she is very sorry that she cannot stay longer. Of course she is expecting to be paid for LT, although I effectively got ST.

Last night, I explicitly agreed on LT with 2 rounds for 1500 with a girl, that I had once before and that gave me a good time then. This time, however, it unfolded exactly as described: 20 min sex and no sex at all in the morning. I told her that I consider this not line with our agreement and gave her only 1200 instead of the agreed 1500. She started a big scene telling me I am not keeping our agreement and that her usual rates are 1500 for ST and 3000 LT (yeah, start dreaming!). I threw her out of my apartment wondering what had gone wrong here.

I also encounter more and more price negotiations, which were the exception 4-5 years ago. When I discuss this with the girls, I often hear that they have to do this, as they have more and more customers not paying according to their expectations. I am a frequent visitors to Maggies and am always paying the usual rates (1000 for ST and 1500 for LT) , but it seems that this does not prevent me from such negotiations.

Do you observe similar things recently?