East China - Shanghai

[Setsna]

Hi guys,

I am living in Shanghai since almost a year now. I have never visited a Sauna or Spa as I don't speak any Chinese and I am not familiar with how it goes there. So far I had some fun with ladies from the usual places like Manhatten or Judys and also some pick ups in other clubs of Shanghai.

I also have a few regulars on my WeChat.

I am writing this post, because I want to ask you guys if anyone of you wants to exchange some wechat contacts of nice girls. Also if anyone would like to hangout for a beer or two and introduce me to the whole sauna / spa thing I would be happy!

Just drop me a PM if you are interested in the exchange of some WeChat contacts. I am happy to share and would be happy to also get some new girls contacts.

Enjoy the long weekend!

[Playboy2000]

If you discover any other places, please let us know. I'd like to PM you, but you arn't a member.

Based on the great post in the Suzhou blog, I have explored around in Shanghai a bit for this, and have had a little luck- found one. This is in Minhang, not too far from the Jiaoda main campus, called Lianming (32852;26126;33310;21381. This is on Lianming Lu. Not so easy to find, but its there- can look up in google maps. Entrance is on a side of a building- need to look for this. Can watch people coming in and out- and will find it. Entrance fee is 20 RMB, and no questions were asked. Can then go up and check coat, etc. Buy tickets at the counter for 20 RMB each- so give these to the girl, not cash.

I went there on a Friday evening, a bit too late (9 pm)- it closes at 10:30. Pretty busy. According to people I talked to, it's less busy Sun-Thursday, with a lot more girls compared to guys. People there were very friendly- best to speak Chinese. The staff asked how I like it, how I like the girls, etc. I also talked to some of the customers, who where certainly surprised to see a Westerner there. Got the usual stares- but these are normal stares, not glares. Some then even tried to hook me up with girls they know there (there seemed be many regular customers). One older man even showed me how to best grope a certain girl.

Some of the girls were nice, some not so nice. Few sauna level. Many were dressed rather racy. Talking to these girls, some are there every day, some occasionally. Some have been there a while, and some only a few days or weeks. I think there is a fair amount of turnover. I asked a couple of the girls, and they had never seen a westerner there before, though one had danced with a Japanese. Most will assume that you do not speak Chinese, until you do.

It was not hard to find dance partners. Same process as described in Suzhou board. After each dance I would go over and sit or stand in a different place, and check out the scene. No need to take every dance. As in Suzhou, it's one dark / slow dance, followed by light / fast. In the dance, as grabbing and other groping were the norm. The floor was dark, though maybe not as big as the Suzhou places. With some girls there was no talk, and some talking throughout. In a couple cases it got pretty passionate, and in others the girl just went through the motions. I danced with a couple 2-3 times, and built a decent rapport. Let's see if they are there when I go back.

I think I could have gotten some phone numbers or wechat, though as this was the first time I left it- will do this next time. And I'm not sure I would push for any same day stuff until I know how the place works better.

Taking to the people there, they say there are a few other Wuting in Shanghai, but not many. There is one in Qingpu, which is smaller (and a bit far for me), and another in Pudong, which hopefully I'll be able to thresh out.

So something else to check out. My suggestion is that don't get there too late (opens in the afternoon), don't come in too big a group (may attract undo attention), make friends with the locals, and go with the flow. Good luck.

[DoItUnderwater]

Your posts include some really valuable information to help us all understand more about the unpleasant side of our hobby. We all need to be as knowledgeable as possible about what risks we might be facing.

Have fun and be safe out there.

[XikangLu]

I was wandering around Jing'an the other day that I had some time off from work. I walked inside Spring massage on Jiangning road for a standard massage. I've heard they do HJ for a tip, but I swear I didn't go in there looking for a release. All I wanted was a massage.

However, halfway through it, I'm laying all naked, towel aside, as the masseuse does her standard thing. BAAAAM goes the door and a scared woman holding a radio shouts something at her. She immediately leaves the room. 10 seconds later I'm wearing my underwear and ready to GTFO.

Another woman walks in. Wearing a full blown Thai-style uniform. With branded oils and shit. She lits a candle. Music changes. Everything becomes more Zen.

Weird shit. Worst massage ever.

When I walked out, two policemen were getting a foot massage near the entrance. They looked at me like 'Hey you –*We know'.

I was like 'tingbudong'. And walked away with an erection.

[Qd6194]

Hello all!

I have been a lurker / occasional poster, but most of all a paying member.

Would someone be kind enough to PM some info about Jiyuan. I have a pretty firm idea of where it is at, I just need a little confirmation before I go out on the chase. Seems a little far out.

Thanks,

Qd6194

[Carage]

BTW, no matter what is happening, do not insult or threaten the police.
These include stuff like: Hey, I want your badge number, I remember you, or you are making a big mistake, my government will not stand for this.

Chinese police do not respond well with threats especially if nationalism/national pride is involved.
If they really believe you can follow through with what you claim you can pull off, they would have released you already.

If you act like an arrogant and obnoxious foreigner yapping about due process, civil liberties, and human rights all the time of your stay,

I doubt the police will respond in a kind way, and yes, "accidents" can happen to detainees ALL the time.

[Carage]

With the passing of time comes reflection, perspective and further insight. Let me first of all thank the resident seniors who were so kind to reach out with support and request for more details. Although I wanted to keep it short and general, the follow-on discussion has tended to go a bit off track and I would like to add some further remarks within my limited publicity space (which everyone in my situation would consider as well, thank you).

Thank you for sharing your personal experience.

Though I do not have the un-pleasurable experience of visiting the "weather bureau".

I believe I have heard enough stories inside Shanghai legal circles to talk about this very important issue.

Alright, enough of the metaphors.

First of all, I will start with the legal side on what is supposed to happen if you are caught.

But we should be reminded that rule of law in China is not a well-established concept.

Especially when it comes to administrative penalties or criminal procedure.

So what could really happen can be totally different to what the law or regulation says.

Your experience can vary widely given the political goals of the agency vs the personal needs of the individual officers.

Here is what is supposed to happen:

Anyone caught in a prostitution case is generally subjected to administrative penalties by the PSB aka the police station.

You may be detained up to 15 days and charged a fine of 5,000 RMB, and the police may inform your family / employer.

They may also inform the exit and entry bureau and your Chinese visa would be in jeopardy.

You may be permanently banned from visiting China again, though I have also seen cases of 2 year waiting periods.

Then there is the foreign diplomatic issue.

Typically, foreign embassies and consulates require Chinese law enforcement agencies to contact them within certain days if one of their citizens are detained.

These are governed by individual treaties, I attended a seminar that talked about it recently.

I only remember the countries I care about.

So, for US citizens, the US consulate must be notified within 4 days.

Canada is kind of vague, I think the exact language is ASAP.

Japan is also 4 days.

I don't really remember the rest, but with the exception of a few countries that say ASAP.

The general rule is Chinese authorities are supposed to inform them within 4 - 7 days of detainment.

So technically, say if you are American, and they only detain you for three days they are not in violation of the treaty if they don't let you contact the Shanghai consulate.

Now there is the part of what could happen:

Generally, most of my sources tell me most law enforcement agencies do not like to get any foreign diplomatic service involved.

Because their bosses may get a political black eye if any foreign media picks up any human rights abuses or procedural violations, which there will be too numerous to count.

And because of the 4 day rule, it also gives the individual officers a chance to prey on detainees.

Like the story I shared before. A former colleague was arrested in a sauna bust.

He did not speak Chinese but the police did not provide him with any translator.

He was thrown in jail and ignored for three days.

The fear got to him, and he managed to buy his release and a clean record for 60,000 RMB.

He got away with no rap sheet, but he could not explain away his three day disappearance to his boss and was subsequently fired.

I think he could have said he got kidnapped which is actually a somewhat accurate depiction of what really happened.

But then maybe he was worried to get involved with the police again should his boss force him to press charges.

Also, from what I heard, the police do not like to target foreigners in general.

1. They generally believe it is not worth the hassle, especially if the detainee does not speak Chinese.

2. With the economic growth in China, being a foreigner in China no longer automatically means you are rich.

If the individual officers are interested in pure financial gain (aka a shakedown).

It actually makes more sense to target someone with a deep local bank account.

Most business travelers do not have local bank accounts, and they cannot easily distinguish expats and business travelers / tourists.

Therefore the maximal amount of extortion money they could get is subject to whatever spending limits are placed on your foreign bank card.

So they could go through a lot of trouble without any substantial reward to justify the risk and trouble of quasi-legal detention.

BUT, occasionally the PSB do get political directives that require them to arrest certain amount of foreigners for whatever purpose.

If you are familiar with Chinese propaganda, you should have been aware the PRC gov really touts nationalism.

So it is beneficial for their political agenda to demonstrate to their underlings that the days of colonialism is over.

Foreigners can and will be punished by Chinese law, and foreigners are not on any moral high ground.

If they do get such a directive, then you are probably really screwed if you are caught.

BYE BYE JOB, BYE BYE China VISA!

So there are generally four categories of what could happen if you are a foreigner caught in a prostitution bust:

1. Best case scenario: They let you go on the spot, because they feel you are not worth the trouble.

2. You are legally detained and fined according to law and expelled from China.

3. You are illegally detained and extorted.

4. Your government comes to rescue you, but you are still expelled from China, because the PSB can and will do that even if just to save face.

(Technically, the PSB is legally entitled to decide who is no longer welcomed to China.

The Exit and Entry Bureau and the PSB are both under the same Ministry of Public Security).

NOTE: This piece should not be considered legal advice in any sense.

I am not licensed to practice PRC law even though I have a degree in it.

I can only speak from experience and what I heard.

Though if you are indeed arrested in a prostitution bust.

I do not know if it will do you any good by seeking legal representation.

If lawyers are involved, it may force the police's hand to do everything by the book.

Which means in any case you will be stuck with an arrest record that looks really bad for visa purposes.

Or you could easily spend more money on legal fees than any fine / bribe combined without any guaranteed good outcome.

Good luck!

[The Guy]

With the passing of time comes reflection, perspective and further insight. Let me first of all thank the resident seniors who were so kind to reach out with support and request for more details. Although I wanted to keep it short and general, the follow-on discussion has tended to go a bit off track and I would like to add some further remarks within my limited publicity space (which everyone in my situation would consider as well, thank you).

In any event, man, very sorry for what you went through.

[Levitian]

BTW, I noticed that the Shanghai thread has now exceeded 10000 posts. Excellent. Onward and forwards. !!

There have been much more posts, not only 10000+. I think this is now the 2nd or even 3rd Shanghai thread.

In former times one still could find the closed threads of the past in the China overview, but I guess that Jackson now has finally removed them from the list. Makes sense, as things are very different than before, and many of the infos collected back then are useless, today.

Lev.

[Jmac12]

Hoping to find a MP that does prostate massage-not as something that might be negotiated as an extra, but part of the standard service.

Thanks a lot.

[Member #4689]

With the passing of time comes reflection, perspective and further insight. Let me first of all thank the resident seniors who were so kind to reach out with support and request for more details. Although I wanted to keep it short and general, the follow-on discussion has tended to go a bit off track and I would like to add some further remarks within my limited publicity space (which everyone in my situation would consider as well, thank you).

1. We should not deviate from the real topic and start a long discussion on 'language' issues. The weather format reporting into this forum was not introduced by me, also it was extensively used in general discussions whereby the members had little personal 'skin in the game' if you will. While I liked the creativity of the language and immediately understood its meaning (but that's me and I am not a native speaker), I would not necessarily use it if I could be more open. Also, we should not underestimate the level of intelligence of our diverse member pool. As an aside this was one of the questions during my 'interview' with the weatherman: they wanted to know what my highest education level was (primary school, high school etc).

2. After struggling for a while I decided to go 'public' with my experience, for the sole reason to warn others of real risks. Now given the scarcity of such events (can not remember reading here about a member having same experience) it is easy to brush it off. But this a so-called tail-end risk, rare but with large impact if it happens to you.

3. Exact time / place are not so relevant. It is a bit off center Shanghai and has never before been covered here. Foreigners were rare there as well. After the storm the place was gutted.

4. It was not a lousy small place but rather fancy with good talent.

5. Somehow, something broke down in their operations. I also do not know why they attracted the dedicated attention of the Shanghai specialized weather bureau. Their pre-op intel and handling was excellent and swift. There were no obstacles at the storm site for them!

6. Never have I seen adult males so meekly and small! Being belittled by female school teachers (yeah. Language! One male visitor was ordered by a young female teacher to stand with his face against a wall for over an hour (just like in primary school), just for practice, go figure! Seeing people boarded and hooded was like Gitmo except for the orange jump suits.

7. I was kindly informed that the weather man know how to deal with visitors with listening disabilities, incl. Enlisting help from concerned relatives and work colleagues. Nuff said, you can figure out the festive atmosphere over there!

8. All our personal details were recorded, they especially liked to capture our well groomed faces and fingers.. Also my foreign passport was given ample study time... They complimented me on my visa status..

9. My stay was brief in the sense that it was not overnight (did not bring extra clothes), but still took most of the day. The many others (visitors and staff) were awarded free two weeks lodging!

10. The elephant in the room question is of course why I could only briefly enjoy their hospitality. THIS I can not answer here, but suffice to say I did not break any rules in a technical sense.

11. No offense to others and I do not want to change your behavior, I only wanted to show the other side of things. Hope this can be appreciated on its OWN merits.

As the Germans say : "wer lesen kann ist klar im Vorteil" meaning : those who can read are clearly advantaged !

Stay safe and enjoy the Spring weather!

[NorthSouth]

For those who read Chinese or watch local news, the LE of Shanghai had announced a major concerted crackdown on traffic law violations. You might have noticed the very visible increased police presence on the road. That is long overdue, given the atrocious traffic conditions and reckless disregard of civility, safety and traffic laws by drivers and motorbikes. I know traffics division is separated from vice squads, but I wonder whether this shift in focus might not provide some relief of the recent pressure on sinful places and us mongerers.

BTW, I noticed that the Shanghai thread has now exceeded 10000 posts. Excellent. Onward and forwards. !!

[The Guy]

Problem with "windy / rainy weather" metaphor is it makes it nearly impossible for most of us to understand what a poster is getting at, especially since most deploying this "prose" are non-native English speakers. Don't want to disparage any poster, but given the proliferation of Internet trolls, imprecise language will make me question any poster's authenticity.

In his 1st post on the arrest, the poster said "I did not stay very long. " In the more recent post, he said he spent "some 8 hrs enjoying their hospitality. " Maybe absent the "rainy / windy" metaphor, I would understand him better.

Again, not to cast aspersions on a poor monger who was detained by the police. Nothing but sympathy from me for this gentleman. But it makes a helluva difference to us all whether it was a brief police encounter or whether criminal charges were filed, and why some mongers faced more severe consequences.

[DanielMccc]

This has been my local as it's the closest. But boy does this place look like a slump working girl house.

Lately, there have been a constant supply of Russian / Ukrainian engineers. Me like. Price is reasonable at 1680 RMB. Probably the cheapest white engineers one could find.

I had a few awesome consultation with the Russian / Ukrainian engineers lately. But the standard of room is a *****. Despite having an army of Ayi cleaning the room, it was just messy.

Last night, I paid an extra 100 RMB for the VIP room which is a suite away from the crowd. Nice decor, but crappy hardware, the shower ran like weak [CodeWord134], we had to ask for towels and sheet, out of tissue (HELLO? Sauna 101? There's a TV but with nothing to show, the bed is slightly bigger but same vinyl bedding with a thousand people's semen on it.

A slump working girl house. But I like it, because it gives me what I want.

[ShanghaiNong]

Based on the great post in the Suzhou blog, I have explored around in Shanghai a bit for this, and have had a little luck- found one. This is in Minhang, not too far from the Jiaoda main campus, called Lianming (32852;26126;33310;21381. This is on Lianming Lu. Not so easy to find, but its there- can look up in google maps. Entrance is on a side of a building- need to look for this. Can watch people coming in and out- and will find it. Entrance fee is 20 RMB, and no questions were asked. Can then go up and check coat, etc. Buy tickets at the counter for 20 RMB each- so give these to the girl, not cash.

I went there on a Friday evening, a bit too late (9 pm)- it closes at 10:30. Pretty busy. According to people I talked to, it's less busy Sun-Thursday, with a lot more girls compared to guys. People there were very friendly- best to speak Chinese. The staff asked how I like it, how I like the girls, etc. I also talked to some of the customers, who where certainly surprised to see a Westerner there. Got the usual stares- but these are normal stares, not glares. Some then even tried to hook me up with girls they know there (there seemed be many regular customers). One older man even showed me how to best grope a certain girl.

Some of the girls were nice, some not so nice. Few sauna level. Many were dressed rather racy. Talking to these girls, some are there every day, some occasionally. Some have been there a while, and some only a few days or weeks. I think there is a fair amount of turnover. I asked a couple of the girls, and they had never seen a westerner there before, though one had danced with a Japanese. Most will assume that you do not speak Chinese, until you do.

It was not hard to find dance partners. Same process as described in Suzhou board. After each dance I would go over and sit or stand in a different place, and check out the scene. No need to take every dance. As in Suzhou, it's one dark / slow dance, followed by light / fast. In the dance, as grabbing and other groping were the norm. The floor was dark, though maybe not as big as the Suzhou places. With some girls there was no talk, and some talking throughout. In a couple cases it got pretty passionate, and in others the girl just went through the motions. I danced with a couple 2-3 times, and built a decent rapport. Let's see if they are there when I go back.

I think I could have gotten some phone numbers or wechat, though as this was the first time I left it- will do this next time. And I'm not sure I would push for any same day stuff until I know how the place works better.

Taking to the people there, they say there are a few other Wuting in Shanghai, but not many. There is one in Qingpu, which is smaller (and a bit far for me), and another in Pudong, which hopefully I'll be able to thresh out.

So something else to check out. My suggestion is that don't get there too late (opens in the afternoon), don't come in too big a group (may attract undo attention), make friends with the locals, and go with the flow. Good luck.