Thread: Jakarta
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08-29-18 17:42 #13024
Posts: 84Visa
Going on my umpteenth trip to The Phils soon but been planning a few weeks in Indonesia this time as well.
My passport is getting very full. It seems the Indo visa is a full page sticker rather than a little stamp. Is this right?
Cheers.
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08-29-18 06:37 #13023
Posts: 3497Originally Posted by MontanaMonger [View Original Post]
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08-29-18 04:37 #13022
Posts: 140What are we talking about? A guy who is on the way to his hotel having just arrived at the airport, carrying his original passport, I would have definitely called his bluff till the end. There is no way he would've ended up in jail. As mentioned previously although in general the police is corrupt, even they have their limits.
The whole report to police station is ONLY valid when staying in private accommodation (friends' apartment, airBNB etc, you are not personally required to report yourself if staying in a hotel as the hotel is required by law to do so. Even if they do not, you are not legally liable for the hotels failure to follow the law, nor do you need to carry proof of this report with you. What you do need is proof that you are staying in a hotel.
In saying that, I can understand that someone who is tired, who doesn't speak the language and just wants to get to sleep that they might be inclined to just pay the few bucks, but 500 k to 3 jt is simply too much.
I have gotten pulled over many, many times over the years, I have not paid a single bribe over 100 k ever, even during the 4 am razia coming home from clubbing and barely able to drive straight with a LC who was sucking me off in the car 10 seconds before being pulled over.
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08-28-18 14:27 #13021
Posts: 405Originally Posted by Smoothy [View Original Post]
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08-28-18 07:07 #13020
Posts: 303No being there it is hard to say. But I am a bit of a coward. I would usually protest nicely and negotiate and try to read the situation. If I am getting railroaded and digging a deeper hole for myself with no backup, I would reverse tactics. If I feel that a couple see notes will stop the BS and get me out of any potential problem, I would pay. I can make more and the downside out weighs the upside. I doubt any government will press charges against me for paying the bride, but it is in the back of my mind.
Thanks for sharing. It is interesting because with so many witnesses, on their side, there was obviously some other dynamics there. A habit from my NY days; I always have some see notes on me.
Originally Posted by Marky1 [View Original Post]
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08-28-18 04:47 #13019
Posts: 105Long time back almost 10 years back, I and my wife were travelling Jakarta and we were in rental car travelling from Jakarta to Bangor for a day trip. We were sitting at rear and I asked driver are we required to wear seat belt and he said no need. Well moment we enter Bogor police blew whistle and stop the car and he duck his head inside and asked us why we are not wearing seat belt. I said in English driver said you don't need. But he said driver is not local so does not know local law. He asked for my papers and my wife was carrying photo copy of our PP, (our hotel advise us to carry photocopy instead of original) and police ask me why we don't carry original PP. I said original PP is in hotel locker and if you don't trust my Photocopy then you can call immigration office and check the originality of PP. Car was stop for more then 25 minutes and finally I ask driver how much he need, so driver said he want 50 K I said OK you pay from your pocket now and I will pay you afterwards as we don't want to show our wallet and he demands more. So finally we paid 50 K and moved on. So this incident has left sour taste about Indonesia trip otherwise all is well. So we need to know few some basic rules, carry photo copy of PP, never hand over original then you are stuck if he keep PP in his custody. Don't open wallet and don't negotiate yourselves.
Originally Posted by JktJon [View Original Post]
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08-28-18 01:16 #13018
Posts: 3497Originally Posted by MontanaMonger [View Original Post]
I agree that it's pretty dead, but you can still find fun at Ds or My Bar from Wednesday thru Saturday nights.
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08-27-18 17:02 #13017
Posts: 405Blok M
This Blok M party is dead stick a fork in it half the street is pitch black the rest has a total of maybe 20-30 girls dispersed around 3 or 4 bars. In contrast hotel travel has like maybe 100 in one massage parlor.
Of the 20 girls maybe 10 are 20-30 and 10 30-40, I used Agoda Homes where the host failed to show up and I had no where to stay I was supposed to stay in a luxurious apartment at the marina I am now stuck in the shitole formerly known as Blok M. My time here has be desperately refreshing wechat to look for real women and price is kind of high I got quoted 700 k-1 mil but in a desert almost anything looks good. I went to a few bars here in Blok M the desperation here you could cut with a knife I'm just going to not partake and use these days to recharge my time in mangga besar I had about 20 women in a super short amount if time that's a lot of viagra popping, just going to detox and relax for the few days I'm in Blok M.
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08-27-18 06:03 #13016
Posts: 19Originally Posted by Goferring [View Original Post]
I'm really not trying to attack anyone, and I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just have a different experience and perspective about this, that's all.
I NEVER said the police were not corrupt, and ONLY act upon local laws. It is well known they are corrupt. All I said was that there are limits to their corruption. Sure, Indonesia is not as lawful as Europe, but at the same time its not as lawless as wild-west.
My belief-until someone proves otherwise with actual evidence and not speculation or hearsay- is they won't actually Jail you for simply being a white guy walking around with the proper ID (a kitas or passport) who didn't do anything wrong. It doesn't mean that they won't use that as a 'threat' to try squeeze the new, naive or gullible. My small sample size of people I know that called their bluffs, were able to get their asking prices substantially lowered to small amounts where it was acceptable just pay them and get it over with (not worth saving $20 on principle to find out). If they did throw you in jail for something as benign as 'being a tourist failing to report to a police station', you absolutely can and should report that to your embassy, they are there to help their citizens and would make inquiries. The Police would be reluctant to have that type negative press get out, as corruption exploits have led to firings if you watch the news, and I guarantee you an officer would get fired for pulling a stunt like that. If you can show me evidence of people actually being jailed for such bogus and benign charges I'll take it all back, but my experiences and the empirical evidence shown to me lead me to believe they are not that audacious as to actually follow through threats of such bogus charges onto tourists (perhaps in the past, but definitely not now).
I don't blame or be-grudge Marky for paying up also, and I'm not attacking him in any way. He's a new person in an unfamiliar environment, and frankly it wasn't a big deal to him financially to risk finding out. I totally get it. I am just really surprised for the amount they asked for (10 Juta correct?) because it is a-typical, and I'm not sure why they tried it on him or thought they could get it from him? While he talked it down significantly (which is an indicator they just swung for the fences), my own belief is that if he held his ground, he could have gotten it down to the normal amount and they wouldn't have thrown him in jail for it anyways- at most inconvenienced him for a few hours. Just the usual posturing I've seen several times over and over. You have to think from the officers perspective also. Incidents of corruption like this have been publicised in the news leading to the demotion / sacking of officers accused or seen accepting bribes (increasingly since the Ahok regime, this is why they make you be ultra discrete handing them money, sometimes even putting it into an object, then to the officer), so the officers are also weighing their own risks and want to keep it quiet also, and I don't think they themselves want to die on that hill for a measly couple Juta because a lawful tourist wanted to test their resolve to be corrupt. Its a game of chicken and 99/100 times the Police are happy with a small victory.
That's just my 2 cents and I'm absolutely leaving it at that. You are free to handle these situations however you choose, I'm not forcing anybody. Lets just get back to topic, this has been beaten to death!
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08-26-18 10:21 #13015
Posts: 117Originally Posted by Goferring [View Original Post]
Like I said, happy to walk away for 3 million.
These guys weren't playing games.
Going with completely unreasonable, unhinged corrupt police in the early hours of the morning on my own in a city I don't know is incredibly stupid.
If they're willing to extort me for 10 million for being a bule, I wouldn't put anything past them. Any kind of trumped up charge, plant drugs, just hold me at the station to fuck with me.
It was a Bluebird taxi I was in not a fake Bluebird.
And not fake police. It was too big of an operation on a road with traffic to be bandits. I would have been stopped on the side of the road for at 10 minutes.
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08-26-18 09:44 #13014
Posts: 3399Originally Posted by JktJon [View Original Post]
I'm not presenting myself as a "expert" but I do strongly disagree with assumptions that Indonesian police fully comply with and act only upon local laws. While inroads have been made, corruption is still rife within all levels of policing.
Originally Posted by JktJon [View Original Post]
Road block of my taxi at 4 am with my legitimate girlfriend and 3 of her friends, heading back from a night's clubbing and the girls dressed accordingly. Even I thought we looked guilty. Refused to hand over passport but gave local ID. One older girl jumped to my defence saying I was a friend of her husband (true) and I spoke Bahasa. Result: stopped maybe 30 minutes and paid 50 k.
Me driving a vehicle across provincial borders without registering the vehicle locally (technically car registration is for the Province the car is registered in only and an additional permit is required in another Province. Note "technically" as it happens all the time but with a white guy driving, you get the idea). Stopped maybe 20 minutes, showed my valid SIM drivers license and was given the option of 20 k paid at the station an hour away or 70 k, there and then. I paid 70 k.
In a taxi from the airport. The driver followed a ministerial car as his escort cleared traffic. The last police bike stopped us for 15 minutes threatening the driver. I said nothing. Driver paid small "fine" and I gave him a 100 k tip.
Probably dozens of vanilla stops where no one was in the wrong and nothing of consequence happened.
Originally Posted by JktJon [View Original Post]
"Quotas" as I said, are ad hoc and can be driven by seasonal events (Ramadan etc) when demand is high or opportunism (foreigners in town for Asia Games, illegal timber areas etc).
Promotion can be earned, nepotism or bought. If bought, they are not cheap. I've heard numbers of USD 100 k to become a Colonel in a lucrative area and I believe it. Obviously, if borrowed, this needs to be paid back. If not, it needs to earn return and patriachal kickbacks form a significant part of this.
Originally Posted by JktJon [View Original Post]
Originally Posted by JktJon [View Original Post]
Originally Posted by JktJon [View Original Post]
Originally Posted by JktJon [View Original Post]
It could have been less but it also could have been a lot more if he stood his ground unsuccessfully.
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08-26-18 08:01 #13013
Posts: 6308Originally Posted by Kartolo [View Original Post]
Forget about drink prices. How was your 3 some? Better than the general consensus we read about?
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08-26-18 03:48 #13012
Posts: 29Drinks at Hotel Travel
Originally Posted by MontanaMonger [View Original Post]
Went to Hotel Travel yesterday afternoon. The last time I went, an entrance fee was charged which can be set off against any expenditure. I was surprised this has been waived. Charges were as reported and was told these are promotional prices in the afternoon. Anyway took the double package after a short chit chat. Ordered drinks in the room for three of us and the bill was almost 150 K for just 2 packet drinks and a can of Coke. Beware of the price before you order!
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08-26-18 03:21 #13011
Posts: 19Originally Posted by Goferring [View Original Post]
To counter your point, a friend of mine was once pulled over by Police in a taxi, and didn't have his passport. They wanted 1 juta and he didn't want to pay that, so he walked into the back of the police car and said go ahead take me to the station and we'll sort this out. He was willing to call out their bluff as they were trying to hose him. After a few minutes the cops asked if he could pay 300 k instead. If they don't want to go to the hassle of booking him for a 'real' offence, how much less inclined would they be for a made-up offence?
Anyways, I'm not telling you or anyone else how to handle this situation. It's up to the individual to decide what they want to do, but there is a limit to how far officers will go before exposing themselves to risk or excess inconvenience, especially in recent years since the Ahok regime started cracking down on renegade cops. For them to take you to the station, they have to file a report report with the commandant in order to leave their post, and if they take too much time with any single car or miss their quotas they also get in trouble from the commandant, so I've never heard of any low level officer doing that without an actual justifiable cause. Personally, after going through dozens of police checks, and speaking with them in Bahasa during these checks to understand how they operate, I'm not naive enough to pay 3 juta for not breaking any law or doing anything wrong. It would be a different story however if I did 'technically' break some law.
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08-26-18 02:48 #13010
Posts: 3497Originally Posted by OffshoreSwell [View Original Post]
I wonder if one could outrun them though at 3 am if you had they own Ducati? I would think it would be easy enough to run away from a normal police roadblock with one, but to outrun a cop who is also on one may be an exciting challenge.