Jakarta

[Raverboy]

...Education is a key point: broadly "upmarket" = educated and it's a better criterion than what they are wearing or their LV accessories which frankly, may only point to their skills in elicting cash/gifts from stupid naive bules! How many LV bags do you think an astute fellow like me has ever bought?! No answers from MS please.

LOL you guys are awesome!

It really doesnt matter how many LV bags you have ever bought, so long as the returns have been worth the investment! In the end its all the same, I reckon...

Thanks again for all the replies - I think I've got a broader perspective of things now. Looks like I will perhaps try mixing things up - a coupla nights here a coupla nights there and see where I end up...

[Mighty Spearsman]

You've got other good feedback on your question from XXL and Prosal, both of whom make excellent valid points...

...How many LV bags do you think an astute fellow like me has ever bought?! No answers from MS please.

You're too modest! Recently I was in the LV shop at Plaza Indonesia with my significant other (buying a bag for her, incidentally) and saw a plaque on the wall there naming you a member of the "LV Customer Hall of Fame" right alongside Gorbachev and Keith Richards

[Bulai69]

you've got other good feedback on your question from xxl and prosal, both of whom make excellent valid points. as you say, you do have an advantage over most bules if you can tune in to their speech; even i, with limited bahasa indo can tell the difference between educated girls and others. street girls use a lot of language (often bahasa sekong) which even most indonesian girls don't understand. although it's not infallible, even their english is a good guide - and i don't mean fluency, many girls are fluent in english but you can tell they've learned it in the street and who they've learned it from. maybe i should say from whom they have learned it?! education is a key point: broadly "upmarket" = educated and it's a better criterion than what they are wearing or their lv accessories which frankly, may only point to their skills in elicting cash/gifts from stupid naive bules! how many lv bags do you think an astute fellow like me has ever bought?! no answers from ms please.

[Prosal]

Stadium is the most democratic club in Jakarta.Anyone can go there, and practically everyone does, from your own pembantu on her night off to the President's grandchildren.

Jakarta is anything but "democratic". Pretentiousness is at its most garish and elites NEVER mix with other classes, especially when it comes to nightlife. If a trendy place begins to be labeled "middle-class" (as it happened for Retro in 2002) no upper-class girl will want to be seen any more there, even drop-dead.

Also the fact that an outrageously wealthy guy goes partying from time to time in Kota with some of his buddies and a dozen of high-octane semi-hoes is not representative of the JKT elites social life. As I said below, north of Monas is a no-go area for this group. It's a pure fact.

[Blunderer]

MS - certainly sounds like you had fun. By way of warning, baby oil and condoms are a bad mix. Baby oil has a disintegrative effect on latex - you can test it by blowing up a balloon and rubbing baby oil on it. Water soluble lubricants are the go!

Maia poured some baby oil on her hand and then wrapped her lubricated hand around my dick for about 30 seconds as I pumped in and out of Nisa - sort of like getting FS and a HJ at the same time.

[Gonzo Two]

I tend towards XXL's point of view. Since the demise of Tanamur over a decade ago, Stadium is the most democratic club in Jakarta. Anyone can go there, and practically everyone does, from your own pembantu on her night off to the President's grandchildren.

Certainly wouldn't assume that every girl at Stadium is a low rent hooker, or even "a middle class piranha". You find piranhas of all social classes there: the upper classes have sharper teeth and chew faster is all.

[Prosal]

Would they turn their noses up at me coz I'm staying in Kota?

Chicks from the JKT true "elite" classes never venture north of Monas. Never. N.E.V.E.R.

Anyway if your main target is mid-to upper class freebies, you'll be much better off in Mulia or Sultan. You'll have a quick access to Plaza Senayan, which is strategically essential for daytime meetings (if you want to score among this group you'll have to DATE, and for some girls two or even three meetings are sometimes necessary), and it will definitively improve your status.

[XXL]

If one is sharp you can likely deduce a lot in about 15 mins. of conversation.

Uhm, one should not underestimate their talent for dissembling. In my view reliable (though not infallible) tests of belonging to at least the upper middle-class is whether 1) they're ready and proud to invite you to their place 2) they can drive you back to your hotel in their own car. If they only circulate in cabs (or worse, "ojeks") or if they always have an excuse ready not to extend an invitation to see their beautiful home/apartment ...

Note that quite a few jet-set girls hang around in the infamous kota joints, including Stadium, admittedly often accompanied by boyfriends (whom you are better off not to meddle with). Megawati's son was reported to often rent a booth at Mille's to party with girls, surely not all of them girls picked from the gutter (during raids the cops knew better than to raid his booth of course). My point is, Kota is not synomymous with "low class, no beautiful people", far from it!

The reason a scene has developped in Kemang may have to do with the logistics of roadblocks on week-ends. Too much danger in Kota, so setting up a "hot" disco on the other side of town will attract custom. Of course the cops adapt quickly and extend their dragnet to catch the fish outside Kota. I haven't patronised the joints Raverboy mentions but assuming because they're in South Jakarta they attract an entirely different crowd from the Kota crowds is doubtful. To me girls have no social class. The poorest of girls can be queen if she marries the king.

[Raverboy]

The short answer is "yes". But that is not to say that I disagree with what has been said already in answer to your question. There are many complexities - how do you know they are "upmarket" girls when you meet them anyway? A great many girls live in accomodation far far worse than your likely Kota hotel but they still appear in BATS dressed like Paris Hilton. These girls always ask "where are you staying" as part of the process of weighing up what they can get out of you. If you are not staying at a 5* hotel they may well as you say "turn their noses up" but they may nevertheless still go with you having sought your agreement to a large sum of money! If you are staying at a 5* hotel they will either ask for even more money or they may take a longer view and not mention money at all on the basis that they can elicit lots of "presents" on the next days shopping trip.

Really upmarket girls don't go to BATS etc, except maybe in a large group with work-colleagues or whatever. Even the mid-range ones to which I think you are referring and targetting would be better picked up elsewhere than in a night club. I make no comment on the "market segment" to which the girls in the attached photos belong, some of my friends in here who have met some/all of them might have a view?

If what you are really asking is: will you get more upmarket girls by booking in to a 5* hotel I would suggest that you might - but on a return on investment basis, you would be better staying in a cheap one.

Thanks XXL and Bulai69 for your replies. I think you've hit it squarely, Bulai69.

How do I know they're upmarket girls? I'm Asian so I suppose we're a bit more 'sensitive' to these things, being the judgemental, superficial and status conscious lot we are. I'd like to think I can size them up as well as they can do likewise How they dress, what accessories they carry, how they communicate (Jakartan ABG bahasa gaul - think Jakartan 'Valley Girl' vs. sundanese or other provincial dialects, although I'm not adept at this yet, still learning!), what job they have (I have friends in Jakarta who are part of the target 'market segment' and can provide a point of comparison, unfortunately I'm unable to ask them their opinion on the matter!), which part of town they live in... (LV bag, designer heels, the latest model hp, using babak's chauffeur for the evening, etc. are all dead giveaways), etc. etc. If one is sharp you can likely deduce a lot in about 15 mins. of conversation.

Regarding BATS, it was XXL who suggested that some of the ladies there might be inclined to take the party after-hours in Kota. Unfortunately on the night I went there I didnt make it beyond the front reception counter in the basement based on my observations on the comings and goings - not my scene. The 'market segment' I would be interested in would likely frequent Red Square, X2, DragonFly and other similar establishments in Kemang.

Anyway. Looks like I'll still be slummin' it in Kota ... LOL

[Mighty Spearsman]

After recently trying out several places that were new to me, I decided to go back to my usual haunts this past week. Happy to report success, with nice 2-girl sessions at both Kartika (in Kota, near Stadium) and Maribaya (Hotel Melawai 6th Floor, Blok M).

KARTIKA
Walked in around 2 p.m. and asked for Cindy (age 22, cute, great service), was told she was busy, so I sat down for a drink. Sonia (30-ish Chinese-Indonesian) came over and seemed very interested in my taking her upstairs (evidently business has been slow of late). Just then Cindy showed up and gave me a big smile, so Sonia immediately proposed a 2-girl session (Sonia must have been afraid that I'd take Cindy alone).

As always, a 2-girl session at Kartika is fun because of the 2-girl soapy massage for the first 20 minutes or so. Both girls performed at their best. I had written recently that Sonia seemed to have slowed down in the service department lately, but that was not true - she gave great service this time. I still consider Cindy to be #1 at Kartika these days, for the overall combination of looks, body and service, but it was nice to see Sonia back on form again.

MARIBAYA
Stopped by Friday at 4:30 p.m. and the place was almost empty, only three guys at the bar and a bunch of bored girls. Two girls seemed very interested in me, so I chose them both.

Glad I picked both together, as each had strengths and weaknesses. Maia is around 25, great kisser, great service level, but her face was just ok-looking and her tits looked totally shot once her bra came off (yes, she has children!). The other girl, Nisa, appeared to be only 22, much cuter face, tremendous set of tits, very firm (i.e. she's never breast-fed a child) and bigger than the average Indonesian woman's breasts, but not a kisser and only so-so in the service department. Combine the two together and the overall package was good.

Both Maia and Nisa complained that they had not had customers for several days (Maia 4 days, Nisa 3 days) and I believed it once I entered each of them, as both were very tight. I had particular trouble entering Nisa, so Maia poured some baby oil on her hand and then wrapped her lubricated hand around my dick for about 30 seconds as I pumped in and out of Nisa - sort of like getting FS and a HJ at the same time. Ended up popping inside of Nisa while laying on Nisa's great tits and kissing Maia at the same time - not bad!

Only two downsides to my adventures: first, in both cases, the girls insisted on changing condoms when I switched from one girl to the other, and secondly, I realized later that having this much fun is starting to get expensive!

[Bulai69]

"[QUOTE=Raverboy]Interesting... although my question is more specific to the more 'upmarket' girls who are in that grey zone between P4P and non-P4P that I love so much about Jakarta. I'll rephrase my question:

Would they turn their noses up at me coz I'm staying in Kota?"

The short answer is "yes". But that is not to say that I disagree with what has been said already in answer to your question. There are many complexities - how do you know they are "upmarket" girls when you meet them anyway? A great many girls live in accomodation far far worse than your likely Kota hotel but they still appear in BATS dressed like Paris Hilton. These girls always ask "where are you staying" as part of the process of weighing up what they can get out of you. If you are not staying at a 5* hotel they may well as you say "turn their noses up" but they may nevertheless still go with you having sought your agreement to a large sum of money! If you are staying at a 5* hotel they will either ask for even more money or they may take a longer view and not mention money at all on the basis that they can elicit lots of "presents" on the next days shopping trip.

Really upmarket girls don't go to BATS etc, except maybe in a large group with work-colleagues or whatever. Even the mid-range ones to which I think you are referring and targetting would be better picked up elsewhere than in a night club. I make no comment on the "market segment" to which the girls in the attached photos belong, some of my friends in here who have met some/all of them might have a view?

If what you are really asking is: will you get more upmarket girls by booking in to a 5* hotel I would suggest that you might - but on a return on investment basis, you would be better staying in a cheap one.

[Raverboy]

... What do you think those girls do at BATS or CJ closing time? Many head for Kota! ...

Interesting... although my question is more specific to the more 'upmarket' girls who are in that grey zone between P4P and non-P4P that I love so much about Jakarta. I'll rephrase my question:

If I want to pull these kind of chicks (the Kemang OL types):
http://www.internationalsexguide.inf...postcount=1980
http://www.internationalsexguide.inf...postcount=1991

Would they turn their noses up at me coz I'm staying in Kota? Are they likely the types that would enjoy hitting the Kota discos?

[XXL]

... a more 'upmarket' FL from Red Sq., X2, etc. who would then just turn out to be a closet sleazy party girl who would not balk at the idea of accompanying me to Kota to listen to some 'techno kota'.

Well you're in luck because you'll be amazed at how many of the girls at BATS, if they're still free towards midnight, will eagerly accept an invitation to "pergi Stadium". If you dig a bit you discover nearly all of them are closet party girls. What do you think those girls do at BATS or CJ closing time? Many head for Kota! That's why they're eager to get paid and leave at 3 in the morning rather than stay the night: to go spend the money in Kota! The only thing is that many of them, when partying, will want to do so with loud hot music ("musik kencang"), ie in a disco, rather than have sex in a room. Of course if you're in Stadium rooms are available for a quickie. For me partying in Stadium or similar places has become too dangerous. Although someone in Stadium management told me back then it was possible to rent a room for the whole night + next morning and have girls brought to me. In case of a raid I could sweat it out in the safety of my room. I don't trust such a scheme 100% though. I was once lucky: a raid began when I was with a Stadium girl in the VIP room. Stadium staff called us from downstairs to beg us to lower the music otherwise the cops could take it into their heads to seek us out.

[Raverboy]

Hello indeed. Upgrading to a more expensive hotel should not decrease availability, not even where girls are concerned if the hotel has a place where you can find girls until late into the night. This applies to Meridien, Shangri-La and Mulia. Of course, the nightly walk to Stadium or Lokasari will be a thing of the past.

I haven't yet given a try to the scene across the road within walking distance from Shangri-La though (the infamous "railings"). Available females from that spot may lack ID and proper clothing to enter the Shangri palace.

No, perhaps I should clarify further: I am not worried about availability. I am asking from one experience in JKT when I was about to pull from CJ's, but the lady I was speaking to expressed some hesitation when I told her I was staying in Kota - seemingly harmless, I presume because of the distance/time of night/possible roadblocks, etc. She would have gone with me should I have pursued it further but that was enough for me to change my mind about her. I ended up returning empty-handed to Kota and pulled from Crown instead.

In essence my ideal would be to stay in more upmarket digs in the south, pull a more 'upmarket' FL from Red Sq., X2, etc. who would then just turn out to be a closet sleazy party girl who would not balk at the idea of accompanying me to Kota to listen to some 'techno kota'. But then of course the other option would be to revert to what I usually do, ie stay in Kota, go to a 'techno kota' disco and pull a sleazy party girl FL directly. LOL! You catch my drift now?

[XXL]

I was thinking of going 'upmarket' just to cuci mata. With that I would think I'd have to put up in posher digs like the Shang / Mulia, etc.

Hello indeed. Upgrading to a more expensive hotel should not decrease availability, not even where girls are concerned if the hotel has a place where you can find girls until late into the night. This applies to Meridien, Shangri-La and Mulia. Of course, the nightly walk to Stadium or Lokasari will be a thing of the past.

I haven't yet given a try to the scene across the road within walking distance from Shangri-La though (the infamous "railings"). Available females from that spot may lack ID and proper clothing to enter the Shangri palace.