Jakarta

[Sydpat]

Long time back almost 10 years back, I and my wife were travelling Jakarta and we were in rental car travelling from Jakarta to Bangor for a day trip. We were sitting at rear and I asked driver are we required to wear seat belt and he said no need. Well moment we enter Bogor police blew whistle and stop the car and he duck his head inside and asked us why we are not wearing seat belt. I said in English driver said you don't need. But he said driver is not local so does not know local law. He asked for my papers and my wife was carrying photo copy of our PP, (our hotel advise us to carry photocopy instead of original) and police ask me why we don't carry original PP. I said original PP is in hotel locker and if you don't trust my Photocopy then you can call immigration office and check the originality of PP. Car was stop for more then 25 minutes and finally I ask driver how much he need, so driver said he want 50 K I said OK you pay from your pocket now and I will pay you afterwards as we don't want to show our wallet and he demands more. So finally we paid 50 K and moved on. So this incident has left sour taste about Indonesia trip otherwise all is well. So we need to know few some basic rules, carry photo copy of PP, never hand over original then you are stuck if he keep PP in his custody. Don't open wallet and don't negotiate yourselves.

Are you sure you're not expert? Because its quite a mixed message to deny it, and then write a 10 paragraphs essay cherry picking and twisting my points in your counter-argument.

I'm really not trying to attack anyone, and I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just have a different experience and perspective about this, that's all.

I NEVER said the police were not corrupt, and ONLY act upon local laws. It is well known they are corrupt. All I said was that there are limits to their corruption. Sure, Indonesia is not as lawful as Europe, but at the same time its not as lawless as wild-west.

My belief-until someone proves otherwise with actual evidence and not speculation or hearsay- is they won't actually Jail you for simply being a white guy walking around with the proper ID (a kitas or passport) who didn't do anything wrong. It doesn't mean that they won't use that as a 'threat' to try squeeze the new, naive or gullible. My small sample size of people I know that called their bluffs, were able to get their asking prices substantially lowered to small amounts where it was acceptable just pay them and get it over with (not worth saving $20 on principle to find out).

[Smoothy]

This Blok M party is dead stick a fork in it half the street is pitch black the rest has a total of maybe 20-30 girls dispersed around 3 or 4 bars.

If you went on a Sunday night, that will be true. It was also true on a Sunday night at Blok M years ago.

I agree that it's pretty dead, but you can still find fun at Ds or My Bar from Wednesday thru Saturday nights.

[Member #4794]

This Blok M party is dead stick a fork in it half the street is pitch black the rest has a total of maybe 20-30 girls dispersed around 3 or 4 bars. In contrast hotel travel has like maybe 100 in one massage parlor.

Of the 20 girls maybe 10 are 20-30 and 10 30-40, I used Agoda Homes where the host failed to show up and I had no where to stay I was supposed to stay in a luxurious apartment at the marina I am now stuck in the shitole formerly known as Blok M. My time here has be desperately refreshing wechat to look for real women and price is kind of high I got quoted 700 k-1 mil but in a desert almost anything looks good. I went to a few bars here in Blok M the desperation here you could cut with a knife I'm just going to not partake and use these days to recharge my time in mangga besar I had about 20 women in a super short amount if time that's a lot of viagra popping, just going to detox and relax for the few days I'm in Blok M.

[Jkt Jon]

Probably.

I'm not presenting myself as a "expert" but I do strongly disagree with assumptions that Indonesian police fully comply with and act only upon local laws. While inroads have been made, corruption is still rife within all levels of policing.

Again, I'm no expert and this is not a pissing contest.

Are you sure you're not expert? Because its quite a mixed message to deny it, and then write a 10 paragraphs essay cherry picking and twisting my points in your counter-argument.

I'm really not trying to attack anyone, and I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just have a different experience and perspective about this, that's all.

I NEVER said the police were not corrupt, and ONLY act upon local laws. It is well known they are corrupt. All I said was that there are limits to their corruption. Sure, Indonesia is not as lawful as Europe, but at the same time its not as lawless as wild-west.

My belief-until someone proves otherwise with actual evidence and not speculation or hearsay- is they won't actually Jail you for simply being a white guy walking around with the proper ID (a kitas or passport) who didn't do anything wrong. It doesn't mean that they won't use that as a 'threat' to try squeeze the new, naive or gullible. My small sample size of people I know that called their bluffs, were able to get their asking prices substantially lowered to small amounts where it was acceptable just pay them and get it over with (not worth saving $20 on principle to find out). If they did throw you in jail for something as benign as 'being a tourist failing to report to a police station', you absolutely can and should report that to your embassy, they are there to help their citizens and would make inquiries. The Police would be reluctant to have that type negative press get out, as corruption exploits have led to firings if you watch the news, and I guarantee you an officer would get fired for pulling a stunt like that. If you can show me evidence of people actually being jailed for such bogus and benign charges I'll take it all back, but my experiences and the empirical evidence shown to me lead me to believe they are not that audacious as to actually follow through threats of such bogus charges onto tourists (perhaps in the past, but definitely not now).

I don't blame or be-grudge Marky for paying up also, and I'm not attacking him in any way. He's a new person in an unfamiliar environment, and frankly it wasn't a big deal to him financially to risk finding out. I totally get it. I am just really surprised for the amount they asked for (10 Juta correct?) because it is a-typical, and I'm not sure why they tried it on him or thought they could get it from him? While he talked it down significantly (which is an indicator they just swung for the fences), my own belief is that if he held his ground, he could have gotten it down to the normal amount and they wouldn't have thrown him in jail for it anyways- at most inconvenienced him for a few hours. Just the usual posturing I've seen several times over and over. You have to think from the officers perspective also. Incidents of corruption like this have been publicised in the news leading to the demotion / sacking of officers accused or seen accepting bribes (increasingly since the Ahok regime, this is why they make you be ultra discrete handing them money, sometimes even putting it into an object, then to the officer), so the officers are also weighing their own risks and want to keep it quiet also, and I don't think they themselves want to die on that hill for a measly couple Juta because a lawful tourist wanted to test their resolve to be corrupt. Its a game of chicken and 99/100 times the Police are happy with a small victory.

That's just my 2 cents and I'm absolutely leaving it at that. You are free to handle these situations however you choose, I'm not forcing anybody. Lets just get back to topic, this has been beaten to death!

[Marky1]

Probably.

I'm not presenting myself as a "expert" but I do strongly disagree with assumptions that Indonesian police fully comply with and act only upon local laws. While inroads have been made, corruption is still rife within all levels of policing.

Again, I'm no expert and this is not a pissing contest. Just to present facts and outcomes of my interactions as requested:

Road block of my taxi at 4 am with my legitimate girlfriend and 3 of her friends, heading back from a night's clubbing and the girls dressed accordingly. Even I thought we looked guilty. Refused to hand over passport but gave local ID. One older girl jumped to my defence saying I was a friend of her husband (true) and I spoke Bahasa. Result: stopped maybe 30 minutes and paid 50 k.

They wanted 10 million to start with. It took a lot of negotiating to get it down.

Like I said, happy to walk away for 3 million.

These guys weren't playing games.

Going with completely unreasonable, unhinged corrupt police in the early hours of the morning on my own in a city I don't know is incredibly stupid.

If they're willing to extort me for 10 million for being a bule, I wouldn't put anything past them. Any kind of trumped up charge, plant drugs, just hold me at the station to fuck with me.

It was a Bluebird taxi I was in not a fake Bluebird.

And not fake police. It was too big of an operation on a road with traffic to be bandits. I would have been stopped on the side of the road for at 10 minutes.

[Goferring]

Your sarcasm, is unhelpful. Just so we know your level of expertise,

Probably.

I'm not presenting myself as a "expert" but I do strongly disagree with assumptions that Indonesian police fully comply with and act only upon local laws. While inroads have been made, corruption is still rife within all levels of policing.

How many police checks have you been through

Again, I'm no expert and this is not a pissing contest. Just to present facts and outcomes of my interactions as requested:

Road block of my taxi at 4 am with my legitimate girlfriend and 3 of her friends, heading back from a night's clubbing and the girls dressed accordingly. Even I thought we looked guilty. Refused to hand over passport but gave local ID. One older girl jumped to my defence saying I was a friend of her husband (true) and I spoke Bahasa. Result: stopped maybe 30 minutes and paid 50 k.

Me driving a vehicle across provincial borders without registering the vehicle locally (technically car registration is for the Province the car is registered in only and an additional permit is required in another Province. Note "technically" as it happens all the time but with a white guy driving, you get the idea). Stopped maybe 20 minutes, showed my valid SIM drivers license and was given the option of 20 k paid at the station an hour away or 70 k, there and then. I paid 70 k.

In a taxi from the airport. The driver followed a ministerial car as his escort cleared traffic. The last police bike stopped us for 15 minutes threatening the driver. I said nothing. Driver paid small "fine" and I gave him a 100 k tip.

Probably dozens of vanilla stops where no one was in the wrong and nothing of consequence happened.

how many local Officers have you conversed with in Bahasa? And do you know how they operate to meet their quotas, and their chain of command for reporting?

I'm not in the military nor LE but I do work in a very heavily legislated industry. In different roles, I dealt with Kepolsek, Kepolda, Kepolri anywhere from a daily to monthly basis.

"Quotas" as I said, are ad hoc and can be driven by seasonal events (Ramadan etc) when demand is high or opportunism (foreigners in town for Asia Games, illegal timber areas etc).

Promotion can be earned, nepotism or bought. If bought, they are not cheap. I've heard numbers of USD 100 k to become a Colonel in a lucrative area and I believe it. Obviously, if borrowed, this needs to be paid back. If not, it needs to earn return and patriachal kickbacks form a significant part of this.

You seem to forget that the poster 'alleged' that he did not break any law, and I was operating on this assumption. What law did he not technically not comply with?

Show documentation proving that he had reported to police. Obviously this is handled by the hotel he was staying at and is very rarely enforced bit it's normally the next question asked after "Show us your ID". I wasn't justifying the police's position but pointing out that Embassies are very reluctant to get involved if there has been a breach (however rediculous).

There is no law for 'being at the wrong place at the wrong time' as you claim.

Yes, there is no legislation about a foreigner being a convenient and lucrative target. However in the real world, corruption is very opportunistic and if the possibility presents itself it will be grasped. A "rich" white guy who may not know legal requirements and has any gaps in documentation etc is mana from heaven.

To counter your point, a friend of mine was once pulled over by Police in a taxi, and didn't have his passport. They wanted 1 juta and he didn't want to pay that, so he walked into the back of the police car and said go ahead take me to the station and we'll sort this out. He was willing to call out their bluff

I totally agree that calling the police's bluff can be effective but be prepared that if yours is call the ramifications can be severe. Marky has said that risk was worth paying the $200.

I'm not naive enough to pay 3 juta for not breaking any law or doing anything wrong. It would be a different story however if I did 'technically' break some law.

Do I think 3 jt was excessive and Marky was ripped off? Yes.

It could have been less but it also could have been a lot more if he stood his ground unsuccessfully.

[Banana Boi]

Ordered drinks in the room for three of us and the bill was almost 150 K for just 2 packet drinks and a can of Coke. Beware of the price before you order!

I don't pay much attention to drink prices at Travel but 50 k per drink doesn't sound too outrageous. How much were you thinking it should be?

Forget about drink prices. How was your 3 some? Better than the general consensus we read about?

[Kartolo]

Hotel Travel.

1 lady 1 pop - 1 hour - 350 k (I got this).

2 ladies 2 pops 1. 5 h - 500 k (the girl said most guys do this 2 girl session).

3 ladies 2+ pops 1. 5 h - 700 k.

She also mentioned that the rooms are larger with more ladies.

I took one girl but this production kind of turned me off with all off the real intimate service I was getting at these shithole massage places Travel hotel was more of a turn and burn kind of place.

At least its cheap. I went up to the room with the girl everything kind of normal until she started to get ready for her session she sprayed everything with mouthwash my balls which actually kind of stung a little bit from the mouthwash the best thing was the ball massage I kind of opted out of sex cause she was so mechanical her pussy was as dry as the nevada desert kinda like like a rubber chew toy. I decided to just save it for later at one of the shops I know where I can relax. This place for a noob I think is heaven but for someone who has been here a few times the smaller massage shops offer a more personal touch. I guess I just feel more at ease when the girls are not trying to kick you out the door to get to the next customer. She was pretty but her attitude was kind of turning me off she had hand sanitizer and lube and a spray bottle and this pad she sprayed with mouthwash on it and held the condom like it was baby jesus. Good thing is the price is right bad thing is this place is kind of clinical it feels more like a sperm donation than sex to me. Going to head out later tonight and grab a more GFE experience at the body to body shops.

Thanks for the information on BO, MM.

Went to Hotel Travel yesterday afternoon. The last time I went, an entrance fee was charged which can be set off against any expenditure. I was surprised this has been waived. Charges were as reported and was told these are promotional prices in the afternoon. Anyway took the double package after a short chit chat. Ordered drinks in the room for three of us and the bill was almost 150 K for just 2 packet drinks and a can of Coke. Beware of the price before you order!

[Jkt Jon]

Jon, good call. Report back on how that works for you next time it happens. Most embassies have senior staff on standby at the middle of the night and are ready to assist their citizens to avoid charges when technically they have not complied with local laws.

Your sarcasm, is unhelpful. Just so we know your level of expertise, How many police checks have you been through, and how many local Officers have you conversed with in Bahasa? And do you know how they operate to meet their quotas, and their chain of command for reporting? You seem to forget that the poster 'alleged' that he did not break any law, and I was operating on this assumption. What law did he not technically not comply with? There is no law for 'being at the wrong place at the wrong time' as you claim. The officers would need to completely fabricate an illegitimate charge, and report it to the commandant in order to abandon their post to bring you to the station, and would themselves risk trouble if it was falsely escalated and exposed.

To counter your point, a friend of mine was once pulled over by Police in a taxi, and didn't have his passport. They wanted 1 juta and he didn't want to pay that, so he walked into the back of the police car and said go ahead take me to the station and we'll sort this out. He was willing to call out their bluff as they were trying to hose him. After a few minutes the cops asked if he could pay 300 k instead. If they don't want to go to the hassle of booking him for a 'real' offence, how much less inclined would they be for a made-up offence?

Anyways, I'm not telling you or anyone else how to handle this situation. It's up to the individual to decide what they want to do, but there is a limit to how far officers will go before exposing themselves to risk or excess inconvenience, especially in recent years since the Ahok regime started cracking down on renegade cops. For them to take you to the station, they have to file a report report with the commandant in order to leave their post, and if they take too much time with any single car or miss their quotas they also get in trouble from the commandant, so I've never heard of any low level officer doing that without an actual justifiable cause. Personally, after going through dozens of police checks, and speaking with them in Bahasa during these checks to understand how they operate, I'm not naive enough to pay 3 juta for not breaking any law or doing anything wrong. It would be a different story however if I did 'technically' break some law.

[Smoothy]

Agreed, the traffic fines are a kind of a fair cop. The road block shakedowns not so.

OS strongly recommends getting a MOGE, (Motor Gede), aka a big noisy motorcycle. Ducati's are good. As a rule of thumb they tend to avoid pulling over big bikes as a disproportionate number of senior police, or otherwise well connected risk takers ride them.

OS turned East at Mall Atrium on his way to Cempakah Mas the other day and failed to immediately enter the bike lane after coming off the overpass and guess what? Spotted him in his Hi vis and could see him moving out to get me pulled over. But with the STNK rego papers and drivers license sitting at home on the table. OS just floored it. Poor kid didn't even have time to get his baton out and take a swing and OS was just a burble in his disappointments for the day. Funny bit was shortly afterwards, some other dude on a big bike went flying past me going even faster. Poor Constable Care was having a bad day.

The worst is when you get shaken down by those motorcycle cops on the big bikes. I've found they demand the highest bribes.

I wonder if one could outrun them though at 3 am if you had they own Ducati? I would think it would be easy enough to run away from a normal police roadblock with one, but to outrun a cop who is also on one may be an exciting challenge.

[Goferring]

OS strongly recommends getting a MOGE, (Motor Gede), aka a big noisy motorcycle. Ducati's are good. As a rule of thumb they tend to avoid pulling over big bikes as a disproportionate number of senior police, or otherwise well connected risk takers ride them.

OS turned East at Mall Atrium on his way to Cempakah Mas the other day and failed to immediately enter the bike lane after coming off the overpass and guess what? Spotted him in his Hi vis and could see him moving out to get me pulled over. But with the STNK rego papers and drivers license sitting at home on the table. OS just floored it.

Ummm, be careful out there:

Rich, connected, fast Duc rider 0.

Jl Sudirman pot plant 1.

http://jakartaglobe.id/archive/top-a...ycle-accident/

[Goferring]

I would have called their bluff and walked into the police car and request to call your embassy. Generally street police are not so audacious as to make up fake charges completely out of thin air

Jon, good call. Report back on how that works for you next time it happens. Most embassies have senior staff on standby at the middle of the night and are ready to assist their citizens to avoid charges when technically they have not complied with local laws.

I'd suggest you also insist on speaking to the cop's Superiors and even the Media. I'm sure they will side with the Bule out roaming the streets at 3 am and force the cop to back down. Remember the more fuss and noise you make the better it is for you.

This will be much more effective than the $200 and 30 minutes that Marky was charged for being a white guy in the wrong place at the wrong time. A felony in most areas of Asia.

[Offshore Swell]

I don't drive a car in Jakarta anymore. However, when I used to drive a car in Jakarta, I would be pulled over on occasion by the Police for trivial traffic violations. On those occasions, the negotiations were never a problem and they never asked to see my passport, they just stuck to the actual infraction and had me pay a small fine (directly to them of course) for that. They usually wanted 50 k and never more than 100 k. I would speak Bahasa to them and they were fair for the most part. Sure it's annoying to be hassled by the police at any time, but hell, I don't mind paying 5 to 10 USD for a traffic infraction. It costs 200 USD or more for the same in the USA.

However, the passport scam shakedowns are a completely different thing. Totally unethical.

Agreed, the traffic fines are a kind of a fair cop. The road block shakedowns not so.

OS strongly recommends getting a MOGE, (Motor Gede), aka a big noisy motorcycle. Ducati's are good. As a rule of thumb they tend to avoid pulling over big bikes as a disproportionate number of senior police, or otherwise well connected risk takers ride them.

OS turned East at Mall Atrium on his way to Cempakah Mas the other day and failed to immediately enter the bike lane after coming off the overpass and guess what? Spotted him in his Hi vis and could see him moving out to get me pulled over. But with the STNK rego papers and drivers license sitting at home on the table. OS just floored it. Poor kid didn't even have time to get his baton out and take a swing and OS was just a burble in his disappointments for the day. Funny bit was shortly afterwards, some other dude on a big bike went flying past me going even faster. Poor Constable Care was having a bad day.

[Marky1]

I suspect there may be more to this situation that you may not be telling us? But if that really was the case, I would have called their bluff and walked into the police car and request to call your embassy. Generally street police are not so audacious as to make up fake charges completely out of thin air. They usually only try squeeze you of of a minor infraction or technicality, like the need to carry official ID / Passport.

I don't really care if you believe me or not.

Going to a police station in the early hours of the morning in a city I didn't know well, with police that had just tried their best to extort me is a situation only a fool would put themselves in.

I make money so I don't have to argue over a couple of hundred bucks with guys that could plant drugs on me, beat me, or just waste 6 hours of my life holding me until morning.

[CrazyTravelr]

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