Tokyo

[Johnny Jets]

Coolguy reported this on 02-16-03"I am from third world country. Stayed in Shinjuku Hilton on my business trip there. It's amazing how many women hang around in the lobby there. If you are taking elevator alone to your room, then they will follow you and start conversation. they will come to your room if you invite them. I had 2 of them but they were not japanese. One was french about 40 years old and other malay about 25 .Also walked around other side of the train station and had my balls squeezed by half a dozen streetwalker women in the dark back alleys there. I didn't partake any of them because I was not able to communicate with them. it's hard to negotiate out in the open when you don't speak the same language."Well I satyed there this week (March 22-24 2004) and none of the above happened, very disappointing. Also went for a walk to the other side of the train station and saw no one in the main streets. Didn't go up any dark back alleys as they looked too seady. Might have missed some fun.

[Homer69]

Lion:Nice comments. I think if you look at nationalistic chauvinism, in terms of which nationality considers themselves superior, the Japanese are probably only a very, very close second to US Americans or Canadians. I know for a fact that of the Asian immigrants I knew when growing up, the Chinese, Koreans, Vietnamese, Filipinos and Indians always seemed to be very focused on getting US citizenship. Western Europeans were not quite so focused while Japanese and Canadians were not usually interested in becoming citizens at all unless some family matter (estate issues, taxes, etc.) compelled them to think hard about it. Basically, I think Japanese people in general, especially the baby boomer aged ones, believe that Japan is a superior place and that everywhere else is inferior, including the people. Your average Vietnamese, Korean or Chinese probably doesn't feel so strongly that way and is willing to change their citizenship and naturalize to something else. I worked with a Canadian guy once and he was always complaining about the US medical system, the guns and the homelessness. He felt pity for us US citizens who had to deal with such an uncivilized society.Anyway, the prosperity that Japan has enjoyed since losing the war is probably only matched by Germany and some of my German friends actually told me that if things had gone differently during WWII we might all be speaking German instead of English.So, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with your points because they are well taken. I'm just trying to add a slightly different perspective and angle to the discussion.Regarding Koreans in Japan, I find it virtually impossible sometimes to discern Korean ethnicity in those 2nd, 3rd and now 4th generation Korean residents. They all have Japanese names, speak, read and write perfect Japanese and unless they have a very strong Korean facial feature, it's virtually impossible for me to tell, even if they tell me they are ethnic Korean, yet growing up in the US I could usually tell Koreans and Japanese apart quite easily. I think it's wrong the way they are treated but since I'm not a Japanese citizen I really don't have much say in the matter.One thing I do like are the Korean ladies who work in the industry. Like people have said here, less hair down there and better proportioned bodies.

[Lion]

Soujoun, I agree with you on most of your points and think they provide good insite for newcomers, but I found a couple that I disagree with 4) and 5):Some clubs do consult the girls, as I know a few that tell me which girls are OK with foreigners and which aren't. I've even heard them ask "gaijin wa daijoubu?" to the girl in question. Of course there are many clubs which have a blanket rule of no foreigners (but even that can be relaxed if you are lucky, clean, a good speaker of Japanese and look like you have money).Also, Korea is more ethnically pure than Japan.And to those other posters who think Japanese are particular, try going to China and talking to a Japanese who was left behind after WWII or a third generation Korean in China-they will all tell you that despite the language and appearance, they are not accepted as the same. And this is from a country with 50 nationalities! This is also true for Chinese in Indonesia (for the last 400 years). And you'd find a fair number of white Americans or Brits who would prefer to think of Vietnamese or Pakistanis as not being pure members of their society.Of course I am not happy with rejection based on race, but to say Japan is unique is stretching things."4) Remember - entrance to the club is determined by the MEN who OWN the club. Not the women who work there. If you visit any club that denies your entrance, you will notice you are denied at the counter! Not by ANY women who are actually doing the deeds.""5) Japan is the most homogeneous country in the world with over 95% of Japanese living IN Japan! It is racist and segregationist. In fact even the Ministry of Government Homepage has a special form for Japanese to inform on irritating foreigners they suspect"

[Super6stud9]

Thank you for the insight.Maybe Osaka , or some of the other cities are better for hunting pussy. Which one would you recommend?The comparison between NY and Tokyo makes sense.Thank you for the insights.

[Endowed]

Sailing, Thanks for confirming my Hara Gei about that tout. I forgot to mention that he wears large eye glasses that have a reddish rim that are broken. In case anyone else is out there.Ditto with Soujourn on the pussy size issue. Just like small guys can have huge cocks the size of the woman does not have anything to do with it. Reccomend going easy doggy style as that is when you tend to bottom out into some internal organs not meant for sexual pleasure.En

[Traveler X]

I thought I should mention one of the clubs that let me in in Tokyo was in Kabukicho of Shinjuku called Lover's Cafe. This was a kind of strip club where you get free drinks, which I enjoy. This was right after Golden week, so business was low and that might have been a factor. You need about 6-12 months worth of Japanese to negotiate in, less if you're a fast learner.Once I did get in, there was no trouble and I felt welcome. I chose 60 mins, which was 9980 including girl. The girl I picked wouldn't be ready for another set (20 mins), so they sent another girl for the first 20 mins. The girl I picked (Yuuko) was really cool, and despite my Japanese it was fun and comfortable. According to the illustrated brochure, "Original Touch", "Back Touch", "Deep Kiss", "Petting" are allowed. They should have had an illustration that said "But no fucking" with an X over the picture. Overall a memorable experience, and I'll go again. This was a year ago, so I'll see in two weeks if she's still there. =PYou'll notice minimum prices are a bit high, but I got more mileage and spent less money that I do in US strip clubs. If you're looking for caucasian strippers, I have heard many positive recommendations for Seventh Heaven in Roppongi. Foreigners are all welcome, and certain hours are discounted.Kabukicho also has a ton of Chinese parlors. Their advantages are they allow foreigners, and you can order what's not on the menu at a strip club. Some Chinese places were hostess clubs where you can take the girls back to your room for a fee and get a night's worth for your money. When I was surprised I could do that (I was just enjoying the novelty of my first hostess club), the mamasan explained this is where the money was for them. All the other customers were Japanese, such as businessmen entertaining an important client. These girls are in their early 20's, mostly from Beijing, and because I only paid attention to the hot ones, I saw some very good lookers. You need to speak either some Japanese or Chinese (I speak a little of both, but not fluent). I found two of these clubs through Chinese touts, the first one was full and no girls of my liking, while the second one had two I was completely satisfied with. None of these clubs are labeled or advertised for obvious reasons, so you either need to be introduced to them through a friend, or through a tout.By the way, if you do talk with a Chinese tout, remember that they're going to try very hard to lead you to a massage parlor or Chinese hostess bar (depending on your budget), no matter where you ask them to take you. That's where their cut is gauranteed and the biggest. They're only useful for getting into a hostess club, or helping you find the one Japanese club that will let you in (they have an idea, but even they have to get lucky for you based on how business is doing for the club).I asked the mamasan at the hostess club for a referral to an honest tout, who true to his word actually found me another Japanese club that would let me in. The margins are much smaller for them because they have to negotiate with the clubs (their accent in Japanese was heavier than mine, but they knew the key words that I didn't know), but as I knew exactly what kind of club I wanted, they took me straight to one.If you go to a massage parlor in Kabukicho, every parlor seems to put fake photos in their photobooks for you to pick, so I wouldn't bother. You don't necessarily get the girl you pick. It's better to look for the massage girls standing outside and pick the one you want, if that's what you're looking for.Some of the massage girls are real attractive looking, but I'll repeat a little advice from my Nagoya guide: Make sure you negotiate exactly what you want beforehand or you will not get it unless you pay more (or not at all). My modus is to simply ask them what they'll offer, because it is much more likely they will not offer on their own initiative anything they won't deliver. Whereas if they see the only way to get your money is to agree to something you proposed but they won't do, they'll take your money. That's how a massage girl who doesn't like sex but likes money thinks.I did manage to get myself into a cabaret style club. There was a barker standing outside with a menu of the ladies. It's like a strip club, but the girls line up and you pick them by number. You get two tickets, one for each girl. Service wasn't as enthusiastic as at Lover's Cafe, but I did enjoy the novelty of it and had a good time. These girls didn't look Japanese, but I didn't ask. This might have been why I had no trouble getting in. The second girl that I called got on top of me, and when I explained I spoke mainly English, she smiled and said "Enjoy" to which I said "I will".So after visiting several of the clubs in Kabukicho, my impression was that service is hit and miss, but there's enough variety that you can find what you like. I had a great time just for the novelty of it, but when I was in Nagoya service was much better on average.In the middle of Kabukicho there is a Manzoku storefront where they have brochures of most of the legit clubs in the area. This was more a curiosity for me, because the clubs advertised won't let foreigners in as far as I could tell. But for the Japanese customers, you can pick the girls you want at the store, and then they will even escort you to the club. If I can get good scans of these, I'll try to post them on the pictures section if anyone's curious. Each brochure has a stamp of some bat with the word "Manzoku" on it.

[Gyaos]

Soujourn,Great analysis! It was a LOL!Since the thread is talking about Japanese acceptance or rejection of foreigners, I'll throw my 2 yen in here to give my side. There are establishments that refuse foreigners with signs saying so. It isn't necessarily the polarised society reason, but foreigners not understanding the culture and presenting it, accidently, as a dishonourable way, simply by not knowing how. The Japanese have no time for this. There are specific times when to say certain Japanese honourific words to respect one's ranking and to respect one's own ranking. Yes, a foreigner may be second class in Japan, so respect that because that foreigner should know it isn't worth squat to prove he/she is not second class. It's just a fact of life in Japan.So to conclude that "foreigners" are not welcome in Japan is absolutely NOT true. Only foreigners that are bad people whom don't belong in Japan are not welcome and should be removed. For the entertainment areas, which this converastion is really focused about, there are just styles of entertainment the Japanese DON'T want foreigners to know about and simply feel those foreigners can't handle it. This is true. It has nothing to do with AIDS, SARS, big dicks, etc., but more to do with lack of communication, lack of honourific Japanese, lack of "scrupples", and trying to negotiate when it isn't welcome. All this over the period of many decades has created what we see today. If you want lots of sex, go to Bangkok. If you want lots of sex in Japan, pay for it. Many will serve you if you dish out the yen. Show someone that doesn't take foreigners 100000 yen and they will take you. Speak the highest level honourific Japanese and watch what they do.But all being equal, if one wants to pay the rates the Japanese pay, one has to, in essence do what a Japanese person will do. You will be surprised what perks actually exist. If you try to "be Japanese" and don't really know how, don't try. Be yourself, there will be someone, somewhere in Japan to serve you. Notice the billions of businesses in which someone is always served by it. It should be like that in the US, not Walmart and everything illegal.One will never end "racism", but getting an *iya* from a Japanese is much better, IMHO, than being threatened by a US racist pig that is a terrorist in disguise with a knife for my wallet in any major US city. Blacks calling blacks epithats in front of whites....etc. Just that last sentence alone is such uneducated, headache style, low level math, I have no need to see it, be involved, whatever. Japan is safe and I know I am welcome there with the friends I created in Japan. All Japanese. All good times. All safe. All educated. And when I want to get laid, I get it myself. I haven't been turned away from "Japanese only" after researching places I wanted to see on my own.Best of success! Gyaos

[Homer69]

TravX:Re: Gaijin AcceptanceI think we have all met Japanese ladies and had good experiences and I'm not sure the ones you've met were workers or just meetings with regular OL. The difference between meeting a lady randomly and meeting a lady who is working is night and day. My point is, the working lady is a captive audience (as is the lady operating the cash register at the local convenience store) and she cannot just walk away if she doesn't like you. This changes the rules of the game. A lady you meet at the coffee shop can just leave and tell you to take a hike which puts her in a much stronger position than someone who is meeting you as a part of her job.I'm not sure if my experiences regarding Tokyo people being like NYC people is the same. In very busy areas around major stations (Shinjuku, Shibuya, Shinagawa, Tokyo, etc) I expect people to be in a hurry and not have much time to answer my dumb questions. I've wandered the neighborhoods for years inside of the Yamanote loop away from major stations and found the people (especially the residents, housewives, etc.) to be quite friendly and helpful, even if they couldn't understand me or didn't know about what I was asking.Also, remember that some of us are considered "resident gaijin" because of the time we've been here and the way we behave while others still are considered "honored visitor" which makes a huge difference in how you are treated.

[Sailing]

Endowed, I know the guy you are talking about, met him while shopping with another WSG fellow in Kabukicho, He told us about a soapland, which he claimed to be the only one which took foreigners (this is not true there was another soap which said they would service foreigners but they quoted 65,000) Went with him to the "soapland" he claimed had J-girls working there. It turned out to be a Chinese massage palor on the fifth floor. Said good bye to the guy at that point.Went to a party this afternoon with another WSG fellow had a good time but the facilities left a lot to be desired. First the bathroom is small with very little space to change in to the robe they give you and you are constantly under pressure to get out of there as the toilet is in the bathroom so if you are under pressure, you are out of luck until the person taking a shower is out of there. The play room is larger but the quality of the girls went down. I didn`t get much advance notice so I could not call the girls I know so....

[Traveler X]

Hi Sojourn,Thanks for the reply, it helps to have a second insight into these points.1) I did have a good amount of smalltalk at various clubs. I've found from American clubs that it's very important in order to get both people relaxed, and I've been told as much by professionals. This is just my experience and observation.2) I completely agree with you. I don't think my post was really saying any of the points you were addressing. I hope you'll see some of my comments were really tongue in cheek observations, and that the only point I was really making was that there is in fact a very real cock gap.3) I have met Japanese women who were curious and surprised by the difference. My real point was really that the workers are afraid of the unknown, whatever that may be. Some of these workers haven't met many Americans. I know when I was in Japan, I was the first American for many Japanese, although this was partly because I don't like tourist areas (except when the sun sets!).Where I live in the US, we don't have such a problem with racism because the average person here has seen many Asians. But when you arrive at the wrong part of the country, the Americans in some places are exactly as racist segregationist as the Japanese, to the point of being physically threatening. My cousin was spit at by people in one place (thinking he was a "damn Jap") because of ill feelings from WW2. Too bad those people don't know the war is over and he wasn't Japanese. Which is probably why they still live in that part of the country to begin with. ;-)4) I am aware it is the men doing the rejection, when you are rejected from the club itself. However, I noticed that at certain clubs that did let me in, only some women were willing to take gaijin (and the man in front knew who they were). So in fact, it is a combination of the club and the women rejecting gaijin. I can confirm this firsthand on more than one occasion. Even when the man at the door lets me in, my choice may still be further limited by the women's own policies.5) My experience is very different than this. In most cities (as opposed to Tokyo), people went out of their way to help me constantly. I was treated well by most strangers (far more than I'd expect in the states), and had no trouble fitting in in any area except the RLD. Tokyo is notoriously different, because that's how they treat everyone. I know many friends who moved from Osaka to Tokyo only to be shocked at how cold people were, not even giving directions. It's no different than any other super-sized city like New York where they couldn't care less about the next person. It was honestly a night and day difference for me, because I spent most of my time in other cities.I have long been aware of your observations on Japanese and their way of thinking, but I wouldn't draw too many deep conclusions based on language and differences in expression. English and Western culture have the very same kind of problems in different areas. We use he when we really mean "he/she" (as do a ton of languages), we say delivery man instead of "delivery person". But it would be excessive to say that this means all English speakers are obsessed sexists. Yet liberal extremists have made that exact argument and then some.The US government has one-upped the Japanese, they actually have a network of informants now to report suspicious foreigners (read Muslims and Arabs). Worse can be said for most countries in the world.I've noticed that many people either have very positive or very negative impressions of Japanese and how they behave as a whole. While the Japanese may have certain ways of thinking that are more extreme than Westerners, I have yet to see any behaviour out of them that certain groups of Westernerers don't also do, even if it is merely to a lesser extent.-Traveler X

[Wabbit]

Today around 3 pm I visited the Ikebukuro branch of Hinomaru. It is quite easy to find. From Ikebukuro station, take the west exit and go into the main street staight ahead (it has a McDonald's at the right corner).Continue a few blocks until you see the OICITY department store on your left and a Daiwa Securities branch on your right. Make a right immediately past Daiwa. Hinomaru is on the left at the end of the first block. Take the stairs down to B2F.I was greeted very politely and got a 2000 yen discount using the coupon found online at www.hinomarukanko.com, thus paying 6000 yen (which includes a beer or two). I found the atmosphere inside pleasant, more spacious and open than Seiki 21. However, the girl was a bit of a disappointment - not a very good looker and somewhat smelly.After a very cursory cleanup (much less than at Seiki), she started a CBJ, which was rather good, but definitely no GFE (too mechanical).I will probably try it again, but would opt for a different girl.

[Homer69]

Soujourn:Re: Gaijin AcceptanceYou hit the nail on the head in every respect! I really didn't want to get into the racist thing too much but it's a fact of life. I've been in Japan on and off for over ten years now and it's really a wonderful place when you start figuring out all of the rules (yes means no, for instance) and figure out some of the subtleties like never talking straight to the point, saving face, not making too much noise (except those silly school girls in sailor suits on the trains who seem to jabber and laugh so obnoxiously), and letting things slide when they don't go your way.There's a lot of very positive things about this place and one of them is the practical attitude towards sex. One of the things that I don't like are gaijin horror stories of some idiot gaijin getting out of line and ruining it for all of us. That's where a lot of those silly rules and rejections come from, experiences that were unpleasant.When you say, "As a gaijin you are simply not welcome here. You are tolerated out of necessity," it really says it all and when gaijin get this idea that they are owed a favor is when the trouble usually starts.I think your point about the way Japanese away from Japan talk about "home" and "going away" when they are actually going to the place of their naturalized citizenship or permanent residence is absolutely right.

[NorthSeattle]

Since I'm considered by some to be a old Asian hand I'll try to explain about the behavior of the Ladies toward all Westerners and actually anyone not Japanese.There is no place that's more ethnically BIGOT orientated then Japan. Even Korean or Chinese living in Japan for several hundred years are considered second hand citizens.Many Japanese Restaurants, Clubs, Entertainment Business and especially Prostitutes won't do business with anybody except Japanese. It's generally a matter of Face or Pride, doesn't make sense to anyone but the providers, or even Management.This is starting to change, especially as woman become more adventuresome, independent or experimental. There are even Woman operating or doing business independently during the last few years. There are even several places that arrange meeting for married woman interested in experimenting where they charge both sides for their service. Any half way attractive foreigner that speaks the language will be hit on often at Mall's or Department stores, where he'll get the chance to screw his brains out at a short time hotel.Believe me it's not your size, as any Woman can accommodate the majority of men. It's mostly the shape of your eyes and that your not a native. Also believe it or not but Japanese men often Pay more then Foreigners, as they are suckers for getting whatever costs more, thinking it's better and providers are aware of this situation. Remember any "Geisha" costs exorbitant prices by any standards without any guarantees.The less on the ball providers suffer from the misconception that they will enhance their value by not accommodating foreigners, even thinking that they will become soiled by doing the deed.Those that do take the step find that it's more fun and overall they are much more happy and better adjusted and bring in more talent in the long run.North Seattle

[Endowed]

Yesterday, walking around Kabukicho at 5 PM, was approached by an older Australian sounding tout who offered university age J girls for 1.5 man one hr, FS. I was late for an appointment so declined but everything sounded good. Even offered for me to look first and come back later. Said he would be there this weekend.Take exit 13 from Marunochi line, when you reach street, looking toward "My City" go right and then next right (down slope) and go one block across main street, past fruit shop and then one more block. Has anyone had any luck with these types of arrangements?

[Soujourn]

Traveler X -- I disagree. As a resident of Japan for more than 2 years I have a farily well founded experience of acceptance/rejection in Japanese clubs.1) Communication - of course this is important when using clubs that specialize in more vebal interaction like image or SM. But how much small talk is required or even initiated for Pink Salon, Esute or Health? Just a few words is generally enough in ANY country OTHER than Japan to gain entrance and enjoy.2) Cock size/pussy size. First - there's no way a cock can permanently stretch a pussy. It's biologically impossible. If it was then your whole body would be sagging from non-resilient tissue(s). Secondly, The size of a woman does not necessarily indicate the inherent length of her pussy. I've fucked hundreds of women around the world (I'm sure I'm not the only monger with a decent statistical sample) and found small women with loose pussies and large women with tight ones. And in Japan, the same! I have a regular freebie that is super petite, less than 40kg and 155cm, but can 'handle' my <monster> gaijin cock easily. In fact she loves it deep as can be! My other regular who is swedish and much taller, larger in every sense, complains if I do her from behind because I bottom out!3) Every Japanese woman I have been with has not been astounded by my penis size. They really don't care so much. They are more interested in the size of my nose! So let's throw away the cock size/pussy size argument. The only people here concerned about that are Japanese MEN!4) Remember - entrance to the club is determined by the MEN who OWN the club. Not the women who work there. If you visit any club that denies your entrance, you will notice you are denied at the counter! Not by ANY women who are actually doing the deeds.5) Japan is the most homogeneous country in the world with over 95% of Japanese living IN Japan! It is racist and segregationist. In fact even the Ministry of Government Homepage has a special form for Japanese to inform on irritating foreigners they suspect. As a gaijin you are simply not welcome here. You are tolerated out of necessity. Of course there are exceptions to the rule, but this is the general feeling and it plays even harder in more personal venues such as sex industry. Think about it - even when Japanese live as U.S. citizens, IN the U.S., they refer to their neighbors and friends who are non-Japanese as gaijin. And whenever they say about travel to Japan, it's ALWAYS using the word for RETURN to home. And when they actually return to their country of citizenship (U.S.) AND real home, they use the word for travelling AWAY! This is not my casual observation, I listen closely to how Japanese speak whenever I'm away from Japan and I have heard this similar conversation many, many times.6) How TO get into clubs: A) Dress well - almost every Japanese guy will be wearing his salarysuit - your chances improve when you are not the nail that sticks up [sic]. B) Speak some Japanese to increase the comfort level C) Go with a Japanese friend. If you notice - many Japanese men go together in these clubs. Men who go to these clubs alone are considered a bit 'sukebe' or perverted - but men together are seen as a bonding group or normal. And of course if you go with a Japanese guy, he will vouch for you and explain that you are OK. D) Learn the system and rules. Also, learn about the protocol of just being in ANY Japanese space. Shoe placement, slippers, bowing, polite words, etc. Japanese culture depends on everyone expecting the same from everyone else.Ganbatte!