General Info

[Oosik1]

First, my thanks to Joe Cose for a clear road map in how to best enter Laos across the Friendship Bridge.

For those interested in some Vietnam War history as it relates to Laos, I recommend you do a Google on "Lima Site 85." Fascinating story about how the CIA placed an automatic tracking radar site atop a 5000' mountain in northeast Laos with shear cliffs on 3 sides for the purpose of guiding U.S. bombers to a spot in the sky over north Vietnam during bad weather for more accurate bombing. The results were devastating to NVN, so much so that the NVN conducted the ONLY NVN bombing mission in the entire war on Lima Site 85, then later conducted a ground assault. During peacetime, the radar was used in America to conduct USAF SAC bomber training in what was called RBS - Radar Bomb Scoring. In war time, the radar crew could release the bombs from their ground equipment. As an AF vet, this was the radar equipment I was trained on and operated. A good book was also written about Lima Site 85. The site, and the immediate area around Site 85, is still considered "sensitive" and off-limits to farangs.

[Joe Cose]

When you arrive at Nong Khai train station, there is a board with (presumbaly) official per person tuk-tuk fares to the bridge (20 baht). There is no need to go into Nong Khai as that is going in the wrong direction. Of course you should have already got your passport photo done for the visa. Anyway, the scam is that the tuk-tuk driver will take you to a house/office where you are invited to get your visa, but the cost will be much higher than the 35 USD charged at the border. So insist on being taken to the bridge. Once there do your Thai exit and get on the shuttle bus for the 15 baht ride over the bridge (it's a long way so don't be tempted to walk it). Once off the shuttle bus, get the two forms from the Lao immigration, one for the visa, one immigration card. Then fill out the visa form and hand it over at the desk with your 35 USD and your photo and then wait for the official at the adjacent window to call you over with your passport now complete with visa. Exchange some currency at the exchange desk (the rates are the same as in Vientiane). Then fill in the immigration card and go to immigration. Then you will be invited to take a taxi (sorry 20 taxis). If you don't feel like haggling for this, look to your half right about 50 yards away and you should see the public bus for Vientiane waiting. It costs 5000 kip (60 cents).

EDITOR'S NOTE: I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here for more information.

[Kniom]

Laos is still a socialist country and they (=government) seem to love it!

[Hummer Bird]

check this out. it is from the travel.gov, a non-competitive site for isg. it may make some of you cringe.

relationships with lao citizens: lao law prohibits sexual contact between foreign citizens and lao nationals except when the two parties have been married in accordance with lao family law. any foreigner who enters into a sexual relationship with a lao national risks being interrogated, detained, arrested, or fined. lao police have confirep001ed passports and imposed fines of up to $5000 on foreigners who enter into disapproved sexual relationships. the lao party to the relationship may also be jailed without trial. foreigners are not permitted to invite lao nationals of the opposite sex to their hotel rooms; police may raid hotel rooms without notice or consent.

is it really worth going here? are the girls so much better than northern thailand or even northern cambodia?
cheers
hummer

[Blunderer]

at the following link http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index....&#entry1104201 I have read laotian banks are paying 16% on local currency tax free. Can someone confirm that ? Can kips be changed back to other currencies and sent back to other countries or once inside Laos they are in prison forever ? How is the inflation in Laos ?

From the CIA world factbook:

Inflation rate (consumer prices):
Definition Field Listing Rank Order
5.9% (2006 est.)

So in real terms, that is about 10% interest which isn't too bad at all...

[Gaudente]

at the following link http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index....&#entry1104201 I have read laotian banks are paying 16% on local currency tax free. Can someone confirm that ? Can kips be changed back to other currencies and sent back to other countries or once inside Laos they are in prison forever ? How is the inflation in Laos ?

[Fred Gold]

I went from Bangkok to Luang Prabang. Visa on arrival with picture for $20. Small airport. Taxi to town was Tuk-tuk for$5. Stayed at Apsara, clean hotel with big shower facing river. No visitors as per rules. Did a day tour with english guide. Guide mentioned dance halls but with out his help could not go. [he was leaving town that evening] Night market reavealed girls manning stalls, no men therefore suspect girls should be available. Ran into a ladys-boy willing for $20. I declined.

In conclusion recommend 2 night including travel but think mongering is not visible or organised as Cambodia.

From Luang Prabang went to Vietiane and stayed at Novetel. Walked around the Mekong bank, not much to see. At night went to the disco at novotel as recommended. Filled with 18 year olds listening to loud music, more boys than girls. Looked more like a aprty for the local rich kids than a mongering pickup place. I think without local guide and transport impossible to monger. Transport is another problem due to unpredictability of availability.

I stayed at the Novotel a couple of years ago and went to the disco. A complete selection for the evening. It was a slow night and the girls were almost having cat fights to see who I would pick. I found one who spoke fairly good english (seemed unusual). We sat together for a while, kissing and my hands and fingers checking out the sweet spots. Nevedr hadany resistance to my roaming. When I realized she was getting nice and wet I negotiated a price for the night. When I went to take her to my room I was told NO, I had to take her to a short term hotel, which they would arrange for me. I made a scene and stasted I booked a room for two, paid for two and am now two. They had me pay a small fee (can't remember how much, but I think it was for them to save face) and up we went for the night.

Just my 2 cents

[Jayagopal50]

I went from Bangkok to Luang Prabang. Visa on arrival with picture for $20. Small airport. Taxi to town was Tuk-tuk for$5. Stayed at Apsara, clean hotel with big shower facing river. No visitors as per rules. Did a day tour with english guide. Guide mentioned dance halls but with out his help could not go. [he was leaving town that evening] Night market reavealed girls manning stalls, no men therefore suspect girls should be available. Ran into a ladys-boy willing for $20. I declined.

In conclusion recommend 2 night including travel but think mongering is not visible or organised as Cambodia.

From Luang Prabang went to Vietiane and stayed at Novetel. Walked around the Mekong bank, not much to see. At night went to the disco at novotel as recommended. Filled with 18 year olds listening to loud music, more boys than girls. Looked more like a aprty for the local rich kids than a mongering pickup place. I think without local guide and transport impossible to monger. Transport is another problem due to unpredictability of availability.

[That Asshole]

Laos. All you need to know.

As you will see the country of Laos is still peaceful and unspoilt. Let's keep it that way. Therefore I will not be giving a lot of exact details about venues for sex but rather clues and leave the rest up to you to follow up.

Laos is the best as it is and it would be a great waste to spoil it by too many penis-centered individuals. (A few of us is enough.)

First impressions about Laos:
Although the country at large seems to be even poorer in terms of consumer goods than Cambodia, the basic infrastructure is so much superior, the hassles so much less and the stay is so much more enjoyable. There are excellent roads and very little traffic. And first of all, you don't need to worry constantly about your personal security. You can take it for pretty much granted.

Rural Thailand can be pretty cool, friendly and relaxed but Laos is even more so. Thais generally seem to be quite suspicious of foreigners but as you cross the Mekong river the atmosphere gets a lot friendlier. Very little if any hassles at all for transport or anything. Also, scams are very minimal, especially if you go outside of the capital city.

Although nobody will ever approach you offering it, if you can explain what you want, poossy is only a few minutes away in any town. As generally in this part of Asia the Viets dominate the scene but with some effort local talent can be available too.

Costs:
Generally not particularly expensive, but living costs drop even more outside Vientiane, the capital. And so do conveniences. A spacious fan room might cost $3-4 a night, aircon $6-8 and a bowl of soup $1. A meal in a restaurant $1-2. How much you will pay for poossy is very unpredictable as the scene is still so low key. There is hardly yet a set price (like B500 for ST as in Thailand). And let's hope there will never be. Much depends on your skills of negotiation and what 'other benefits' you might provide or how much they like you, etc. However it's not a bargain when compared to Cambodia.

Language:
Outside the capital Vientiane it is uncommon to find English speakers. Also you are limited to a few restaurants who might have a basic menu in English. BUT, if you speak Thai (I mean not just "nitnoy" but really can describe what you want in several ways for example), you can just use it one for one, just like in Thailand without any troubles. Don't even need to try to learn Lao. They listen to Thai TV broadcasts so much that you will be understood with no probs at all. Also, you will be able to decipher most of Lao text (for example bus timetables or menus) with some effort, as it looks just like an ancient form of Thai script.

Visa + getting there:
There are some international flights to Vientiane from Bangkok for example, but you can also cross through land from Vietnam, Cambodia or Thailand. Coming from Bangkok you have the choice of (Thai/Lao side) Ubon/Pakse, Nakhon Pathom/Tha Kaek, Mukdahan/Savannaket or Nong Khai/Vientiane (plus maybe some others).

To either of these border cities there are good bus/train connections from Bangkok or even direct from Pattaya. Usually the crossing involves a short ferry trip through the Mekong river but from Nong Khai now there is a land bridge. By the way, despite of what the Lonely Planet book tells you, you cannot get on the direct bus from Nong Khai, UNLESS you already have a Lao visa in your passport. Because the bus will not wait for you while doing the forms.Otherwise you have to use private tuk-tuk to the border. On the way back it is easier and you can take the direct bus because there is no visa neded to enter Thailand, only a stamp for most nationals.

The set fee of visa on arrival is $30 USD ($31 on weekends) and is prominently displayed at immigration so there is no scam. However they might also ask for an additional 10-20 baht for the passport stamp. I don't know if it is legal or not. Possibly not.

Transport/local transport:
Every major town has at least one bus station. They are reasonably well organized however the timetable might only be in Lao script. Usually someone at the ticket office will speak some English though. Non-airconditioned buses are the norm plus pickup trucks. They cost about the same, fares about equal to Thailand, however with less comfort. For shorter distances you will have to use local pickups but it's possibly easier to hire a tuk-tuk (thai made). Fares within town start at 20B (5000 kip).

Money:
Since there is no domestic production to speak of (the country lives from foreign aid), there are no ups and downs of economy so the local currency has been pretty stable for a number of years. 10,000 Lao Kip (roughly)=$1 or THB 250. ($1=B40). Near the border you can use any of these currencies. Otherwise officially banks and gold-jewellery shops change money (but practically nearly everyone does). Scams at changers are so rare that many of the locals don't even bother to count the change, as you will notice.

Weather:
The cold-season (nov-feb) is really hot. The hot-season (apr-jul) is even hotter. The rainy-season (aug-oct) is wet and hot. So, it's always hot, except in the mountains. However the nights in the cold season cool down considerably, making for good sleep.

Food/booze:
Generally not as varied or as spicy as Thai food, but around the border all the Thai staples are available. Also popular are the baguette sandwiches and the Viet pho (noodle soup). Grilled fish, chicken, bat and lizard are also very common. (By the way, the Thais generally consider Laos as 'dirty' by terms of food-hygiene, and probably with good reason.) So, watch where you choose to eat. But often your only choice will be between grotty and grottier.

The most popular alcoholic drink is Beer Lao which is quite drinkable and costs around 30 baht (even in restaurants) for a large bottle. A bargain! Otherwise in cities many imported spirits are available at cheap prices, like $15 for 1 litre of Bailey's or JW Red. (Much cheaper than in Thailand.)

Internet access:
Amazingly very well supplied with many public lounges and fast connections. Often better than in Thailand. Cost around 15-20 baht/hour.

Holidays:
About the same as Thailand. Many shops also close on weekends. Lao New Year in April features the usual crazy water throwing for about 3 or 4 days.

Dangers and annoyances:
Loads of stray dogs, so watch out or carry a stick. Uncovered sewers on badly lighted roads can also be a killer at night. Annoyingly loud music such as karaoke seem to be the pastime of locals but luckily usually stops at 11pm.

The people:
Usually very relaxed and friendly. And at least for the time being the Lao smiles seem a lot more real than in Thailand or Cambodia. However I still maintain that the whole world is fucked and crazy and everybody is just waiting to kill you. So, don't trust anyone. Especially those who tell you to trust them. Trust me, I know! (he he)

The girls/women:
Honestly, the Thai girls look much prettier in general but it may be because they wear nicer clothes and more make-up. Viet-Lao mixes can be very pretty though. Also, anybody noticed how beautiful some of the beggar women are? Washed, combed and made-up some would look like real princesses and for example in Cambodia surely they would be in the meat trade already.

Also, most locals, including the girls are usually very friendly and available for conversation if you are so inclined and can communicate.
But of course I cannot approve any more business with any fucker than a ST session, to be safe, lasting maximum one hour, so I don't recommend you to get too involved either. Why lower yourself to a woman?

The problem is that of course they always cost money and/or trouble. And once you get addicted to them you might commit all kind of evilness such as stealing, robbery, killing, etc, to supply your addiction to them. They got caught a lot of great men before you. That is their game. Yes, unfortunately women are the same rotten lot worldwide. The same is true in any country and Laos is no exception. So, be careful.

What seems to be a source of your joy in the beginning can easily turn into a source of great pain later. When it happens, you will know. So, you better stick to ST and avoid "freebies". It is far better for you to buy fuck for cash than by your personal charms.

Discretion:
Practically it is illegal for Lao citizens to fuck a foreigner without a stamped marriage certificate, however a lot depends on the attitude of local enforcement. Also, this law might not apply so strictly to the Viets who are actually not Lao subjects as such. As you travel you will see lots of foreigners (usually young men) in the company of what appears to be locally sourced meat.


What happens between them is up to the two and whether they actually fuck or not is hard to determine for outsiders. However, the danger is always there for a fuck-up if things don't work out for some reason. And when you will see policemen with the weapon strapped to their sides sinking the sixth beer next to your table in a riverside restaurant you might realize that police actually have a lot more power here than what you could be used to.

And there is a lot of green uniform anywhere you may go or look. So, being VERY discreet is imperative to both, the meat and the customer.


Certainly no Phnom Penh/Sophie Bar type of joints anywhere. But really, as you don't generally see as much nakedness (if you avoid the backpacker tracks) and other public displays of female arrogance as you see in your own country, it is so easy to go without sex for a long time in Laos and you don't even miss it. You can have lots of fun without fucking even once.


However, especially if you stay for more than a few weeks you will find very easy ways to get it. Is this information helpful? By the way if you are a Senior Member with worthwhile reports AND I can see that you are not a 'Pattaya-hero' then you can PM me for more info. But really, just go and find the fun yourself, it is the best way. It is there for sure.


Of course no matter how nice Laos might seem, there is no such thing as 'heaven on earth'. A few weeks in Laos is something like five minutes of rest between sessions of your torture. You will have to go back to your 'real' world and it will be just as fucked as before.

[RCA Knight]

Those laws are basically dead laws, just sitting there. Nobody will enforce it at all. Don't get scared. Laos is actually becoming an international monger destination recently. Every time I make a visa run there from Thailand maybe 2-3 times a year that I choose to go there, there are more and more working girls. And more and more mongers are making their ways to Laos, not just for the visa run, but for ladies. I also noticed there is huge increase in male travelers from other Asian countries like HK, China, Singapore, Malaysia, Taiwan ect, since they all have direct flights from their countries. It's obvious what their motives are traveling to Vientiane.

Compared to about 7-8 years ago when I went there for the first time, the working girls now are everywhere. There are karaoke pick ups all over town, disco freelancers all over discos, and amatures who will go with you for a tip. Girls in Vientiane are becoming more like Thai girls.

[Oosik1]

i read in another forum that there are laws penalizing farangs who have sex with laotian women. is this true? what's the story?

this is a quote lifted from the u.s. embassy in vientiane web site:

"relationships with lao citizens: the lao government prohibits sexual contact between foreign citizens and lao nationals except when the two parties have been married in accordance with lao family law. any foreigner who enters into a sexual relationship with a lao national may be interrogated, detained, arrested, or jailed. lao police have confirep001ed passports and imposed fines of up to $5000 on foreigners who enter into disapproved sexual relationships. the lao party to the relationship may also be jailed without trial. foreigners are not permitted to invite lao nationals of the opposite sex to their hotel rooms; police may raid hotel rooms without notice or consent.

foreign citizens intending to marry lao nationals are required by lao law to obtain prior permission from the lao government. the formal application process can take as long as a year. american citizens may obtain information about these requirements from the u.s. embassy in vientiane. the lao government will not issue a marriage certificate unless the correct procedures are followed. any attempt to circumvent lao regulations may result in arrest, imprisonment, a fine of $500-$5000, and deportation. foreigners who cohabit with or enter into a close relationship with lao nationals may be accused by lao authorities of entering an illegal marriage and be subject to the same penalties.

foreign citizens who wish to become engaged to a lao national are required to obtain prior permission from the chief of the village where the lao national resides. failure to obtain prior permission can result in a fine of $500-$5000. lao police frequently impose large fines on foreign citizens a few days after they hold an engagement ceremony with a lao citizen based on the suspicion that the couple probably subsequently had sexual relations out of wedlock."

[Asia Rocks]

I am in BKK now. I will be going to Vientiane, Laos, in about two weeks.

If any one knows about overland or plane service to Hanoi from Vientiane.

I really would appreciate the information.

Thank you

Samu Ray,

Vietnam Airlines serves Vientiane everyday I believe. Early morning departure from Hanoi to Laos, Cambodia and HCMC and same return leaving Vientiane late afternoon and arriving Hanoi early evening.

Cheers,

AR

[Mega]

If any one knows about overland or plane service to Hanoi from Vientiane.
I really would appreciate the information.
Thank you

Here is the link http://www.laoairlines.com/schedule.htm

[Samu Ray]

I am in BKK now. I will be going to Vientiane, Laos, in about two weeks.

If any one knows about overland or plane service to Hanoi from Vientiane.

I really would appreciate the information.

Thank you

[Hommie]

It's been so many years since I have been over Laos. During U.S. 'adventurism' abroad in some curious places. Have any of you guy's ever had a chance to see the 'Plane of Jars'? It was on one of the main roads across the country. I only had a chance to fly over the area to and from Thailand. I know it was bombed horribly due to all the little lakes we'd see after a rain storm. Some day I hope to return, but perhaps the Pathet Loa might see otherwise.

Hommie