General Info

[Red Kilt]

In Mongolia right now but very little free time from work to give much of an update.

Temperatures are still very low and the evenings are very cold. At least the days are bright and sunny, with blue skies (dirty blue because of the severe coal fired pollution).

Venues in my rather small area of operation are quiet. I am not venturing very far because of the temperatures.

Naadam Bar is empty. GK Irish Pub is also quiet. No chance yet to check out any other venues especially those along Seoul Street. I will postpone that activity until I return in late March.

Springs Hotel massage is unchanged. Predictable and OK if expectations are not too high.

[Red Kilt]

I am going to Ulaanbantar in in November for holiday. May I know the weather and the ways to hook up local ladies?

A holiday in UB in November??

I will also be there in November but for a work assignment. I would never CHOOSE to go there in November.

Obviously you are not internet savvy for you would know to look up either Accuweather Ulaanbaatar or Weather Underground Ulaanbaatar on the internet.

You will find that the weather will be extremely cold, and that nightlife is low key and requires a lot of work in November (Temp range from around zero maximum to minus 20 degrees centigrade at night.

Read this thread and the Ulaanbaatar thread for latest information on where the locals are.

[LegolasLee99]

I am going to Ulaanbantar in in November for holiday. May I know the weather and the ways to hook up local ladies?

[Red Kilt]

Thank you for the reply. I figured it's not so much of a monger scene. I'm still looking at different forums to get an idea of where I want to go next but Mongolia has always intrigued me. Again thank you, it's definitely good to hear it from someone that goes there regularly.

Contrary to my rather pessimistic comments in Post 15, I can now suggest that UB is not as "barren" as I had thought.

After being here now for almost 1 month, I have tapped into the culture a bit more and sorted out where to go and at what time. There are lots of women seeking partners, but it's certainly not "in your face" like it is in Bkk or Manila, for example.

The weak Mongolian Tugrik is attractive for tourists but there are surprisingly few around. Cooler weather is now on the way. The economy is somewhat depressed at present, which might explain why there have been so many women looking for ST or LT in recent weeks.

[MaxThunder]

I am glad you said there is "almost nothing" because if you look back through the you thread you will see a lot of good advice.

The reason why there is "almost nothing" is because UB is not a big monger scene, and it is certainly not "in your face" like it is in Bkk or Manila for example. There is not much to write about.

As a regular visitor (for work) I do a lot of pre-planning through various web sites and I have had success by being polite and patient.

My biggest problem is not having any language (Mongolian or Russian) so if you have any of those skills you will do better.

In the thread you will read advice about being careful of drunk Mongolian men in pick-up places.

If you hope you can blow in to UB for a few days and meet lots of the gorgeous Mongolian women that you see in BJ (and on the streets around UB) then you will probably be disappointed.

Thank you for the reply. I figured it's not so much of a monger scene. I'm still looking at different forums to get an idea of where I want to go next but Mongolia has always intrigued me. Again thank you, it's definitely good to hear it from someone that goes there regularly.

[Red Kilt]

Hello,

The few Mongolian girls I've met have been ridiculously gorgeous which has got me thinking about my next vacation. Is it worth it to go to Mongolia? There's almost nothing on these threads.

I am glad you said there is "almost nothing" because if you look back through the you thread you will see a lot of good advice.

The reason why there is "almost nothing" is because UB is not a big monger scene, and it is certainly not "in your face" like it is in Bkk or Manila for example. There is not much to write about.

As a regular visitor (for work) I do a lot of pre-planning through various web sites and I have had success by being polite and patient.

My biggest problem is not having any language (Mongolian or Russian) so if you have any of those skills you will do better.

In the thread you will read advice about being careful of drunk Mongolian men in pick-up places.

If you hope you can blow in to UB for a few days and meet lots of the gorgeous Mongolian women that you see in BJ (and on the streets around UB) then you will probably be disappointed.

[MaxThunder]

Hello,

The few Mongolian girls I've met have been ridiculously gorgeous which has got me thinking about my next vacation. Is it worth it to go to Mongolia? There's almost nothing on these threads. I'm not looking for a repeat of Spain or Basque country where everyone is so tame it was more work to get laid than was worth it. My problem with Spain was everyone was going in and out so fast that I couldn't get anybody to come home with me because they had tours and sites to see the next day. My problem in Basque country was that San Sebastian was so small, everybody supposedly knew each other so to go home with a foreigner was risking your reputation so I got nothing. Will I have any unforeseen problems like this in Mongolia?

Any tips, locations, anything would be appreciated.

Thanks

[BionicMan]

Toro Toro,

Try the bar at the Holiday Inn in Tsimshatsui for Mongolians in Hong Kong.

In more direct way: try Hary's Bar. mezzanine floor @ the Holiday Inn in TST

[Intransit]

Toro Toro,

Try the bar at the Holiday Inn in Tsimshatsui for Mongolians in Hong Kong.

[One Eyed Man]

I'm so excited! Mmmmmm, they have things like fermented mare's milk.

[Tony Toro]

Anyone have a good source for beautiful Mongolian girls in Hong Kong? Have checked in the Hong Kong section but seems nothing their so hoping someone here has some ideas. Have been lucky at Hari's Bar a few times, any other ideas?

[One Eyed Man]

I saw "Mongol" the movie today and thought it was great.

The actress (Khulan Chuluun) that plays Borte, the wife of the future Genghis Khan, is just stunning.

Favorite line: Borte wants a ride from a slave trader's caravan to the Chinese border to rescue her husband.

Slave trader: "But you have no money."

Borte: "I think you know how I will pay."

[Intransit]

mongolian women face daily risks in cross-border sex work in china

http://www.aidsalliance.org/sw48027.asp

over the years, erenhot – just across the mongolian border in the people’s republic of china – has become a very popular destination with mongolians. most go there on business, but there are some who go for other reasons too. the town now has a large concentration of mongolian female sex workers and is also a transit post for a large network of groups engaged in [CodeWord908].

a team from the national aids foundation (naf) of mongolia, consisting of programme officers s. galtbayar and sh. galbadrakh, and communications officer ts. battaivan, together with g. erdenetuya and l. doljin, respectively a physician and a laboratory technician from the national center of communicable diseases, recently spent time in erenhot with the sex workers, mainly organising voluntary counselling sessions and offering hiv testing facilities.

ts. battaivan writes here about what they learned from and about the women, and about the growth in cross-border sex work and the women who are involved in it. the trip report also reveals the various risk factors for hiv and sexually transmitted infections (stis).

there is an eye-catching statue of a naked woman in a large street in erenhot. local people say that it is a tribute to the beauty of mongolian women. nobody could tell us much more about the statue: who commissioned it, who built it or when it was installed. there is also no answer to the inevitable question of why a chinese city should choose to express its admiration for mongolian female beauty so publicly, nor why this beauty should be immortalised in the nude.

the statue, positioned next to a lit fountain, must have looked very beautiful when it was new. years of constant washing by the water have chipped away its paint, and the bare stone surface now looks dull. instead of giving an impression of vibrancy and joy, it seems as if the woman finds the stone pedestal uncomfortable and is pressing against it to make her secure. unable either to sit with spontaneous grace or to topple with desperate courage, she looks confused and sad.

in the moonlight, the grey statue looks foreboding and frightening. our driver, who has lived in erenhot for several years, told us that the life of the mongolian women in the city was for the most part more miserable than this piece of art could ever signify. he estimated the number of female sex workers in erenhot at 300 – almost double the number suggested by the mongolian consulate.

whatever their number, these women are in high demand, and considered to be easily procurable and as easily dispensable. a customer in any hotel and bar just has to say the word..cart drivers openly offer to get you the services of mongolian women and most taxi drivers are happy to put you in contact. indeed, people seem to know what you are looking for even before you ask for it.

erenhot is a chinese city, but the glittering neon-lit nightclubs announce themselves in cyrillic letters more familiar to mongolians. every bar has a glossy interior, and there are other features they have in common too. a young mongolian woman usually can be seen behind a stone desk, while other mongolian women dance in a circle on a shiny stage. they do not have to dance for too long, as one after another they are invited by chinese men sitting around the stage to join them at their table. there are remarkably few mongolian men in the place. some of the women have mentioned that they prefer chinese men as customers. also their rates of 300 to 400 yuan a night may be too expensive for the mongolians in erenhot.

the women dancing in bars and entertaining men at their tables did not look particularly young to us. indeed, when we chatted with them most said that they were aged between 25 and 30. all of them were mothers, with up to three children. we talked to 10 of the women, and the story of one of them, doogii (her name has been changed), is typical of their circumstances.

doogii came to china when she was 21. the economic situation in mongolia was unstable and things were hard for her family. at times she had difficulty finding enough money to buy milk for her young son. then she met a woman who wore expensive jewellery and fashionable clothes and seemed to have everything a young woman like doogii could dream of. when they talked, this woman made everything look so easy. she said that doogii could become like her in only one month. she could make lots of money simply by rubbing the backs of rich macao men who live surrounded by gold and do not know what to do with their wealth. doogii followed her friend to the south.

macao did have rich men but they were in no hurry to put money in the purse of women like doogii. the friend sold doogii to a nightclub for us$1,000 and disappeared, very likely in search of other young woman. the man who ran the club took all her documents and told her she would get them back only after she had paid off the us$1,000. the only way doogii could earn any money was through sex work. but she was allowed to keep only part of the money she made in this way, and saving any of that was difficult as she also had to pay for her bed and board. her debt carried on increasing, and doogii soon had three or four clients – almost always chinese – every night.

after three years of this, her boss decided that doogii had lost her beauty and commerciality so she found herself free to head home. but the idea of returning with nothing to show for her years of exile was unappealing, so doogii decided to continue with the only trade she had learned, and make and save some money. she stopped off at several towns in china, each time finding a new boss, and after three years she arrived in erenhot.

doogii does not know how much longer she will be there. the mongolian sex workers in erenhot belong to various ranks, and because of her work experience in macao doogii is ranked highly. she is among those who live in the best hotels, and some of the women are even able to rent an apartment on their own. strippers also belong to the highest rank of sex workers, and have sex with customers only when they wish to. the majority of the women in the highest rank had a college education in mongolia.

in each hotel, there are about ten women who make up a team. they spend the day sleeping in their rooms and then appear in the bars in the evening looking for clients. since they do not work for a boss, they are free to reject offers from anyone who looks suspicious or unpleasant. they do not greatly fear violence unless as they say the client is mongolian, for they almost always end up abusing the woman physically. there is a huge scar on doogii’s head, acquired after a mongolian customer, enraged by her refusal to have unprotected sex, broke a beer bottle over her. it is said that chinese men, on the other hand, rarely create any trouble or become violent. since they have to pay a heavy fine if they are found with a sex worker, they tend to play safe and keep things quiet.

a few mongolian sex workers live with their “husbands”, although there is no legal bond between them. the men are known locally as “coalminers”. they committed a crime in mongolia, usually theft, and fled the country to escape punishment. now they live with a woman and usually act as her bodyguard. the women support their “husbands” in return for love and protection. the men are usually young, handsome and well dressed. one sex worker told us that a good many of those released from mongolian prisons following an amnesty declared to mark the 800th year of the great mongol state had ended up in erenhot.
geting is a word used in chinese to mean both a sex worker and the small room in which she works. there are three streets in erenhot with rows of getings. the rooms all have large windows with steel blinds to keep out the light during the day. these are raised in the evening and the room is transformed by the glow of red lights. after sundown one can see into the rooms through the windows. mongolian women sit next to one another, staring at the darkness outside. prospective clients drive around and make their choice. it is like a korean movie, where women are placed in glass boxes and displayed. some women can also be seen dancing to make themselves look more attractive to clients. the getings are almost always owned by inner mongolians, and they have total control over whatever goes on there.

we entered almost every geting. these are not rooms meant for living in. there are three to four girls, all mongolian, in each of them. a client chooses a woman, pays an agreed amount to the boss and is directed to a room upstairs where the woman will come to him for sex. rates vary according to the woman selected. tall, pretty women cost more than those considered less attractive, but the average rate is 100 yuan for one orgasm and 200 yuan if the man wants to take the woman for the night. these rates apply until 10 pm and become considerably lower after midnight.

once we were alone in the room with the women we told them we were not looking for sex but wanted to talk. this scared them. we reassured them that we were not from the police, but they begged us not to record the conversation and swore that they would commit suicide if we revealed their identities once we were back in mongolia.

this is the story of one of the women, saraa (her name has been changed). she is from ulaanbaatar city and had to drop out of university when she could no longer pay the fees. depressed by her inability to achieve her ambitions, she began spending her evenings in clubs and bars with her friends. there she met a woman aged around 40, who was well dressed and kind to the young women. she told them that spending all their time in bars would not get them anywhere, and suggested taking up a job in china to make money. she recommended working as a hairstylist, as the chinese like their hair cut by a pretty woman. saraa eagerly responded to the idea. the woman said she spoke from personal experience as she herself had worked as a hairdresser in china and had made a fortune.

soon saraa was in china, where the woman sold her to a geting owner for 500 yuan and was never seen again. ironically, geting walls are covered with large mirrors to make them look like a hairdressers’ salon. indeed, many of these places are registered as hairdressers’ salons as it is illegal to run brothels in china. saraa’s last link with ulaanbaatar was gone and she now led a totally different life.

almost all the geting girls we met were aged between 16 and 22. usually they have sex with five to six men a day, but the prettier among them often have to meet the demands of even more clients. half of the money the men pay goes directly to the owner. from the other half that the girls get to keep, they have to pay for food, accommodation and protection. and every girl also regularly pays back something of the amount the owner paid for her in the hope of buying back her freedom one day.

there were more than 10 getings in each of the three streets. every geting holds at least three mongolian girls, so there are approximately 100 of them working behind these stone walls.

erenhot also has a number of “mouse holes”. these are tiny rooms in earthen buildings known as “hotels”. the rooms have little in them except a single bed. we found a mother working together with her daughter in one of the holes. since some of the ancient beds cannot bear the weight of two people, the women have sex on the stone floors. the rates here are just a few yuan, and none of the women can hope to make more than 20 to 30 yuan per night. as elsewhere, half of what they make goes to the boss and the rest is spent on food and accommodation, leaving them with little chance of saving anything towards their freedom.

these are mostly women who have “progressed” from working in ulaanbaatar streets, bars and sewage holes – which is why they are known as “the beauties from the sewage holes” – to the so-called glamour of a big chinese city. they agree to have sex with anyone who pays. in mongolia, some had graduated from colleges, but poverty, [CodeWord123], abuse by stepfathers or jealous husbands had led them to leave mongolia disillusioned and, in many cases, hating men. some do not regret their decision and told us that it is better to be in erenhot than in the sewage holes of ulaanbaatar. the majority of the women are illiterate, do not use condoms and are totally unaware that their work carries health risks. when we asked what happened when they became ill, they said that they told their bosses who gave them unspecified pills.

the mongolian sex workers we talked to in erenhot confirmed our information and impression that this border town has long been a busy and active transit point for [CodeWord908]. many of the women who procure mongolian women for sex work in china had themselves once worked in brothels in china. they bring the mongolian women to erenhot and sell them for between 500 and 1,000 yuan to middlemen, who then sell the women on for a much larger sum – between 3,000 and 5,000 yuan – to brothel-keepers in places like shanghai, macao and hong kong. the business is illegal but thriving.

the women told us that there are three groups that engage in [CodeWord908]. they are all well and tightly organised, and consist of people of various nationalities such as mongolians, ethnic chinese and inner mongolians. the trafficking in women is done in two main ways. in the first, the gangs supply women to “purchasers” and then take them back after a particular period of time. women who fall into the hands of these groups consider themselves lucky as they have at least a possibility of going back home some day. we learnt about a young woman sold this way who became a drug user and had her face disfigured so that she could not be recognised. the mongolian consulate in erenhot helped her get back home.

in the other means of trafficking, the gang sells the women and then the gang members simply disappear. the women are left to fend for themselves, totally at the mercy of the man or men who have bought them. usually nothing ever is seen or heard of them in mongolia again. it is easy to understand why. doogii told us that whenever she dares go against her inner mongolian bosses they threaten to kill her and bury her in sand far from erenhot so that nobody can find her.

the women do not have proper travel documents and all live in china under a false name. if they are killed it is highly likely that nobody would ever know about it. when leaving mongolia, many of them told their families that they were going to japan or south korea to work. if the families were to try to get in touch with their daughters, they would begin their searches in the wrong country. all clues have been destroyed, and in the absence of any records of travel or other transactions they would find nothing to help them locate the women.

when we were passing zamiin uud, mongolian security personnel arrested three mongolian citizens on suspicion of attempting to sell people across the border. one of them was found taking five or six girls with him to china. on being questioned, the girls said they were under the impression that they were going to china to work as models, waitresses at bars or as masseuses. out of the 21 women we met in erenhot, 18 said that they had discovered the real nature of their work only after they had arrived and been sold. becoming a sex worker was not their choice; they were forced into it. without documentation and with no one to help them in a new country, they could see no way out.

all of the women said that even if they could find a way to escape from their bosses, the main obstacle to their returning home was having no identity papers or travel documents. in the absence of anything to show who they are or how they got there, they could not expect co-operation from the authorities. those who succeed with their case at the mongolian consulate are given a “return paper”. then they have to get a certificate from the chinese police to say that their documents have been lost in a legitimate way and that there is no criminal record against them in china. this verification is possible if a woman is trying to return within the first month, but few of the women have the courage, the means or the opportunity to escape so soon. the bosses keep a special eye on all newcomers until they are sure that the woman’s spirit is broken. later on, the chinese police can be hard to convince. if the truth comes out about the nature of the woman’s work, she will be in trouble.

there is another way out, of course. the papers can be obtained with minimum fuss for a bribe of between 500 and 1,000 yuan. this is a lot of money for a sex worker in erenhot, no matter how high her rank. on submission of the papers, the mongolian consulate will issue a travel document and then the women have to go on a long train ride to huhot, near beijing, to get the permission of the chinese authorities to leave china.

such a bureaucratic response to a humanitarian issue does not reflect the reality that many women are simply trying to stay alive in very difficult circumstances. of course, not all mongolian sex workers operating outside the country have been tricked into their trade or did not know what they were doing when they left home. but there are many others who have been misled by organised and skilled human traffickers. the women are unanimous that if all return documents could be obtained at the mongolian consulate, [CodeWord908] would be reduced.

it is difficult to imagine how hard the lives of sex workers in erenhot can be. they have at least four to five clients every evening, and most chinese clients take performance-enhancing pills that prolong their erection. it may be up to two hours before they ejaculate. this damages the women’s vaginas, causing them to bleed. whenever they conceive, the women’s minders give them abortion-inducing pills. nobody knows what these contain or how harmful they can be. some go to an abortion clinic, usually a small private one where it is unlikely that proper hygiene standards are followed and where the “doctors” may not be medically qualified. women who spent more than five years have china undergone three to four abortions on an average.

the higher-ranking women who work in bars usually succeed in getting their clients to use condoms. but even then the quality of condoms is erratic. we saw more than 10 different brands of condoms in stores, all with different prices and different levels of effectiveness. more than 20 geting women told us that they would agree to unprotected sex if the client gave them a little extra money. out of the 91 women who agreed voluntarily to be examined by us and to receive counselling, more than 10 were infected with syphilis. the presence of stis indicates a higher risk of being infected with hiv.

the people’s republic of china is considered to be among the five countries where hiv will spread most rapidly in the next five years. being a border town, erenhot draws people from every part of china. mongolian sex workers are going to erenhot and other parts of china in ever increasing numbers and this increases women’s vulnerability to contracting hiv.

[Zhuren]

With the exodus from Beijing going on now, you might do pretty well there in coming weeks. Many of the fine ladies are being chased out by LE in advance of the Olympics. See the Beijing thread...

True.

However, don't base any decisions whatsoever on Cheap Meat's posts. He's a backpacking troll who's been chased out of any forum he popped up in for repulsive and disrespectful remsrks.

The ladies who left BJ are first rate, elegant, eloquent, speak perfect English and are a joy in and out of the bed.

Consider yourself lucky if you find one. Cheap they are not - in any respect.

The Mongolian goddesses have a strong following in Beijing, and there are plans afoot for pilgrimages to UB.

[The Tanuki]

Mongolia, here I come.

With the exodus from Beijing going on now, you might do pretty well there in coming weeks. Many of the fine ladies are being chased out by LE in advance of the Olympics. See the Beijing thread...