Angeles City

[ThatGuy865]

Hi guys,

I agree to all whats said here about AC bars where the real money comes from and that Clark Freeport zone is also big, etc. Etc.

But what they guys do after their work in CLark? Yes they go barhop LOL. Same as the pilots, they also there. Texas instruments and all the other guys working there. They all spend their cash on girls in AC. All the expats living there. 5000? Not sure about the right figure? 2000? Have to do some research how many army/military retired live in AC, how many of the invest in property, hotels, restaurants bars. How many new business grow up every day to cater for the foreigners?

It all starts with US, foreigners and the bars. Write the bars off, write the money off.

If no more bars in AC I as an expat will just go to see other pussy. My 40 or 50k I spent there in a month for hotel and pussy on weekends will go somewhere else. Same as the money from other guys coming over from Manila, SUbic or elsewhere to have a good time in AC. Don't forget that the working girls invest their money also right back into the country, buying clothes, sending their siblings to school, buying their pinoy bf a new motor LOL.

Think about this all. We are also talking about investments. I don't see much new investments for Ermita, Manila or Malata. SUre they have still their conferences and hotel have bookings, but most of them arre worn out. I see nothing new, except the new Hyatt built some years ago.

Manila is dead. Its lively around Pasay with all their rip off KTV bars and yes Koreans and Japanese have their fun too, but think back how it was until Lim closed all down. And then look at it how it is today.

Happy weekend to all!

Blink

Most of the workers are philippino. And you don't see them frequenting the fields bars. Billions flow in from Clark. Most of these bars generate nothing compared to one company on Clark. And they have more coming. They have major Korean investments coming in. Not only in Subic but for Clark also. Its wishful thinking on your part that you would think any country or city or politician woulld really want to fight for a sex zone when they stand to lose major investment from big business/USA funding.

Especially in a catholic country where it is definitely frowned upon. Its just gotten too big and too noticeable worlwide. Even Tijuana zona isn't as big and they still have 3 major military bases next door in San Diego. I don't think there is another predominately Catholic country which has a sex zone as big. Thats why the economics doesn't matter as you have seen with Ermita.

I don't think it will go away completely, it will probably remain the size or reduced a bit, with changes to the way they operate. As it operated before. No body painting or partial nudity (see thru tops) whch are a relatively new occurance. They used to dress in sexy attire like a 2 piece bathing suit. Not even thongs.

Its bigger than the mayor. He's a small man in the big scheme of things.

[Blink157]

Hi guys,

I agree to all whats said here about AC bars where the real money comes from and that Clark Freeport zone is also big, etc. etc.
but what they guys do after their work in CLark? Yes they go barhop LOL. Same as the pilots, they also there. Texas instruments and all the other guys working there. They all spend their cash on girls in AC. All the expats living there. 5000? not sure about the right figure? 2000? have to do some research how many army/military retired live in AC, how many of the invest in property, hotels, restaurants bars. How many new business grow up every day to cater for the foreigners?
It all starts with US, foreigners and the bars. Write the bars off, write the money off.
If no more bars in AC I as an expat will just go to see other pussy. My 40 or 50k I spent there in a month for hotel and pussy on weekends will go somewhere else. Same as the money from other guys coming over from Manila, SUbic or elsewhere to have a good time in AC. DOnt forget that the working girls invest their money also right back into the country, buying clothes, sending their siblings to school, buying their pinoy bf a new motor LOL.
Think about this all. We are also talking about investments. I dont see much new investments for Ermita, Manila or Malata. SUre they have still their conferences and hotel have bookings, but most of them arre worn out. I see nothing new, except the new Hyatt built some years ago.
Manila is dead. Its lively around Pasay with all their rip off KTV bars and yes Koreans and Japanese have their fun too, but think back how it was until Lim closed all down..and then look at it how it is today..

Happy weekend to all!

Blink

[Red Kilt]

.....................The bars, hotels, restaurants, primarily supported by tourists, pump huge sums of money into the local economy. From San Miguel beer sales, to laundry, to ice, trike drivers, dvd sales, grocery sales, the list goes on and on. So while correct the bars in themselves don't create a huge revenue, the associated infrastructure does generate huge amounts of consumerism.

I think the hyperbole you are using in your post (words like "huge sums", "huge amounts") is just not true Matius, not when you consider that most guys who go to AC do so for low-cost happy hours and very cheap EWRs, and even then they do sneak-outs etc. In other words, most (not all) but most mongers who go to AC don't spend very much at all.

Even if 200 mongers spent 2000 USD over a 2 week period, that is still only 16 - 20 M pesos over 2 weeks. The amount of money spent DAILY on jueteng alone in and around the area is equivalent to this sum.

It is the revenue generated across the Clark import and export zones that is "huge".

Bar revenues and the money spent by monger tourists is a drop in the bucket.

I think what will happen is that the bars will become compressed into a relatively small section of Fields, and they will become well-policed and cordoned off from the mainstream areas (a bit like Burgos Street is in Manila).

JMHO.

[Barfiner]

You're going thru a freak out period, happens to everyone, they're no fun to say the least. 9 out of 10 times you're just punishing yourself for nothing. When the bummer obsession starts in your mind, you have to say (verbally), Out! Out! Out Out Out! That usually does it for me, then grab on to another thought quick. It works pretty good. You'll be your old self again before you know it, and a lot smarter too.

Good hint! Hope other guys are smarter than I because I do not wish anybody such an unpleasant situation. I have learned my lesson and will not send any money to somebody anymore. And Mr Sammon is right, who knows who the real father is if a bargirl had a couple of customers within one week. Even if a child is at the end of the day half white it could be from whomever who had barfined her. Maybe even the girl has no clue. Can that be? Sorry that I bother you with my problems!

[Starchild2012]

You gotta feel a bit sorry for those guys that have an apartment there, and their entire retired lifestyle ( or lack thereof) is built around the AC bars and chasing pussy etc. Bet theres a surge in Google hits on Pattaya right now.

You are right freebie.....I don't agree with whatever Thai King Bhumigol does with his country...But with regards to nightlife...he is no pushover or take crap from moral brigades etc....

There is also corruption in Pattaya ... bribes, tea money etc etc to police and politicians....BUT they never seems to mix business with morality and god :)

I think we should all offer a return ticket to Lim and Pnoy to Pattaya to show them hows its really done...and that its ok with gogobars etc :)

[Matius]

AC is much much bigger than Fields and I suspect money from malls, property development, roads, etc. far outweigh the bars, and of course the bars also prejudice other development.

The income generated from pure bar business, I would agree with your statement 100%. But one has to look at the infrastructure and lure of the bars that brings consumers.

Expats moving here. Let's face it, Angeles City, as a city, is a shit hole. Living here, with the rip offs, inflated prices to foreigners, bad attitude of so many, in itself is not fun. Guys retire and live here for the girls, there is a huge expat community and their living expenses and housing pump great sums of money into the local economy. I can't imagine anyone, wanting to live in the Philippines, would choose Angeles City if it did not have the bars and girls.

The bars, hotels, restaurants, primarily supported by tourists, pump huge sums of money into the local economy. From San Miguel beer sales, to laundry, to ice, trike drivers, dvd sales, grocery sales, the list goes on and on. So while correct the bars in themselves don't create a huge revenue, the associated infrastructure does generate huge amounts of consumerism.

The "grey" businesses in Angeles are the targets for black money to the politicians and police. They can't go to SM mall and demand extortion payments, for what? The Filipino business people either won't pay or can't pay. Eliminating the bars, eliminates a huge source of black money to the government officials, which on a city economy is insignificant, but to the individual government official is significant.

So all this would suggest that Fields will continue. That is an assumption based on an intelligence and business sense, none of which exists here. If you suggest to a Filipino that you will give them 10 peso today or 20 peso tomorrow, they will take the 10 peso today. The mayor tells people he wants Fields to become a Las Vegas or Pattaya, then launches and supports massive raids, puts them on the television with machine guns, swat officers, pushing around tourists, putting guns in their face, press releases on "Rescuing" 200 plus girls from Angeles city bars on [CodeWord908]. One can say its all politics and U.S. government aid issues, but what it does to tourism one would not see in Las Vegas or Pattaya. The mayor has come out in active support of the raids, the police units used were all from the Angeles city area, and the prosecution of the raided bars is being handled out of the Pampanga district (Angeles City is part of that district). Talk to tourists coming here, seeing the situation, they ask why would anyone do this, in this manner. It lacks any business or common sense. Yes, welcome to Angeles City.

[Matius]

I just heard that Las Vegas and Agasay bars got raided last night. If this report is substantiated it is very bad news because it indicates a paradigm shift among the powers that be. I still think it is too early to write off AC, but this raises the alarm status from moderate to serious.

My advice for those planning on travel to AC in October and November is: find an alternative like Manila, Cebu, Sabang, or LOS.

For those planning on travel to AC in December you should have a backup plan just in case, but it is too early to cancel IMO.

For those planning on travel to AC in early 2011 (like myself) let’s wait and see what happens. If the PI elites fuck up the Christmas season for AC, then forget about AC. It’s over. A few days ago I thought this possibility was small, but it is getting more likely with each new raid.

There were no raids last night. Some might confuse raids with inspectors coming in, or station 4 police coming in. These guys are into all the bars. The raids we speak of are the ones with M16 machine guns, swat teams, busses to cart off all the staff, the bar being closed, extortion sums being demanded. Last night was quite. The night before, rumours abounded on impending raids. Champaign group decided to close their group of bars for the night based on that rumour (word was they won a significant judgement in their pending case on the raid of Camelot, don't know the truth of that). All rumours aside that night, there were no raids either.

Historically, Friday nights are desirable raid nights, because the courts are closed over the weekend and they can hold and terrorize their detainees all week end before the lawyers can get into court. So we will see what happens tonight.

[Matius]

Hi, Matius:

First of all I want to thank you for your insights. You appear to have thought things through and you have also spent more time in AC than have I. Your views may well have some traction.

I would like to ask your opinion, if I may. I realize that the answer will require some speculation, but that is ok. I will be coming to the Phils on Oct 1 to conduct some other business in Manila. I was then planning on spending a 5-day vacation in Angeles during the first and second week of October. After seeing the news of the raids I have already booked a hotel in Pattaya as a backup, and it did not require deposit. A backup flight to BKK has not yet been booked as that requires money down, so I want to make a wise choice. I would prefer to spend 5 days in Angeles instead if it were worth the while, but it appears that it may not be.

So given the fact that I will be in Manila anyway, would you suggest that I take the risk and come to Angeles for that holiday, or just go straight from my meetings to the Manila airport and fly to Bangkok?

I am interested in what you will have to say, given the circumstances.

Cheers;
Raz

Right now, Cebu Pacific is offerring 1500 ($34 U.S) peso one way flights from Clark (airport in Angeles) to Bangkok. That is less than the cost of a hire car from Manila to Angeles--one way. I suppose equivalent deals may be had out of manila.

If you come to Angeles in the time frame you suggest, I have no doubt you will get laid multiple times by multiple women. So many girls working the street now, at the very least. It is highly possible if you come during the time frame you suggest, you will have an excellent time, party at the bars and be glad you decided to visit. BUT it is equally possible that the raids will continue, that on your five day vacation, bars are shutting down to avoid raids, that fear is to such a great degree, even the suggestion of sex for money in the bars creates confusion and suspicion. I think there is only a small chance, you as an individual will get caught up in a raid, you would have to be in a certain bar, at just the right time, and assume even if that happened that you were selected to be detained. So consider that risk minimal. The greater risk is just having your good time impeded by a bunch of bull shit. So the question comes, for approx. $100 U.S. for the flights, everything expense wise being equal, do you want to come to a destination that could pose a less than satisfactory experience, or go to a destination that the girls will be naked on stage, the party will go all night, and you can pretty much do as you please without risk.

[Socker]

Is that really certain? I am scared like hell and can't even sleep! Have no idea what tricks else they could play!

Many thanks for your comforting words!

You're going thru a freak out period, happens to everyone, they're no fun to say the least. 9 out of 10 times you're just punishing yourself for nothing. When the bummer obsession starts in your mind, you have to say (verbally), Out! Out! Out Out Out! That usually does it for me, then grab on to another thought quick. It works pretty good. You'll be your old self again before you know it, and a lot smarter too.

[FreebieFan]

I just heard that Las Vegas and Agasay bars got raided last night. If this report is substantiated it is very bad news because it indicates a paradigm shift among the powers that be. I still think it is too early to write off AC, but this raises the alarm status from moderate to serious.


For those planning on travel to AC in early 2011 (like myself) let’s wait and see what happens. If the PI elites fuck up the Christmas season for AC, then forget about AC. It’s over. A few days ago I thought this possibility was small, but it is getting more likely with each new raid.

You gotta feel a bit sorry for those guys that have an apartment there, and their entire retired lifestyle ( or lack thereof) is built around the AC bars and chasing pussy etc. Bet theres a surge in Google hits on Pattaya right now.

[ThatGuy865]

Blink

I think your assesment is a little off. I don't believe the mall was built to accomodate the numbers of foreigner or due to the bars. Robinson mall which was the only mall besides going downtown was very small and basically non essential. The mall was built due to the fact of the huge call centers and other business which are on clark and are still developing.

The bars and small number of hotels is a drop in the bucket compared to what CLark is contributing to the city.,

With pressure from the SERIOUS busines players (which by any business standard would be bad for business) and the pressure from the US about the sex trade. While they might not get rid of it completely. They will definitely want it to shrink before they let it grow bigger and rauchier. It will probably be reduced to a level that would make it more acceptable to both. And not completely wiped out but greatly reduced and forced to be tamer. I. E. No body paint. Or nudity what so ever. IMHO

http://www.clark.com.ph/default.asp?...ews&newsID=473

CLARK FREEPORT— Despite the on-going global financial crunch and the soaring prices of fuel, authorities in this Freeport are still optimistic that exporters will breach the $1-billion before the end of the year target as exporting firms posted close to quarter of billions of dollar export output in the first semester of 2010.

Export industry in Clark has recently been noted by the Department of Trade and Industry to be one of the prime economic boosters in Central Luzon following a strong export last year that contributes to economic development.

The Central Luzon region usually ranks 3rd among the 16 regions including NCR in terms of export receipts due to the presence of a number of economic zones in Subic, Pampanga and Tarlac provinces.

it is CDC’s performance as a development corporation that will determine the Freeport’s success. It is imperative that the development in Clark continue to elevate the lives of the thousands of people gainfully employed in the zone, along with their families.”

He added: “A resurgent Clark Freeport Zone is merely the start. Clark proposes to be the catalyst for regional, if not national, economic development. Hence, CDC shall continue with its parallel development program which aims to uplift the standards of business in the area.”

[Blink157]

i have been working here with pinoys for the past 14 years blink.
i would never use the words you use - "trust me i know what i am talking about" - even if i think i know.

anyway - i agree with your sentiments - "i hope everything will be ok for ac"

no offense rk, i am also working in the phils and what i learned is that you never know what will happened. if you think things will be going this way, then it will go the other way. regarding ac, i have some bad feelings now, since this involves also manila politicians and moral preachers. i am a bit concerned about things going on over there. my expat friends told me last year, lets party, you never know if this is the last time that things are like that. i only know that if the bars are gone, the foreigners and with them their buying power, investments, etc. are gone too. i am a big ac fan, i really like the place and i am looking forward to go back there end of next month, but from what i hear and what i see and i am not talking what is in the news i am talking what people tell me who actually are there right now i am, well....a bit concerned and i hope it will end soon.
about lv and agasya, its korean owned, so i dont mind lol and i have to say also, that mostly asians prefer young girls, cherry girls and all those bs. so i wonder how many **** they will detect.
if the cops looking for **** girls, they should raid their pinoy bars, ktv places, etc. i am pretty sure those places employ **** girls, but because mainly politicians have a stake in those joints, they not get raided that often.

blink

[Member #4698]

I just heard that Las Vegas and Agasay bars got raided last night. If this report is substantiated it is very bad news because it indicates a paradigm shift among the powers that be. I still think it is too early to write off AC, but this raises the alarm status from moderate to serious.

My advice for those planning on travel to AC in October and November is: find an alternative like Manila, Cebu, Sabang, or LOS.

For those planning on travel to AC in December you should have a backup plan just in case, but it is too early to cancel IMO.

For those planning on travel to AC in early 2011 (like myself) let’s wait and see what happens. If the PI elites fuck up the Christmas season for AC, then forget about AC. It’s over. A few days ago I thought this possibility was small, but it is getting more likely with each new raid.

[Red Kilt]

............
Dont forget that Philippines is a 4th world country with 4th world decision makers. I work with pinoys every day. Trust me, I know what I am talking.

However, I hope everything will be ok for AC.

Blink

I have been working here with Pinoys for the past 14 years Blink.
I would never use the words you use - "trust me I know what I am talking about" - even if I think I know.

Anyway - I agree with your sentiments - "I hope everything will be ok for AC"

[Blink157]

Hi,
just my two cents.
Take a look at AC how it was 10 years ago and now..since more bars were built, more hotels came up, apartments, another mall, then another bigger mall. Do you think those places where built if there wouldnt be foreigner and foreign money coming to town?
AC bars and business contribute 1/3 of the money, B.I.R., they city makes. There are some huge investments made. If this stops, AC will stop and soon its going to be back to stoneage.
Then they can do some exiting things as calabao races, cockfights..lets see if that attracts foreign investment..or expat from Manila going there. Guess not.
With all the crime happend there to foreigners recently AC foreign residents will think twice to stay there..if no bars and crime is on the rise (cause what you think will happened to all the hookers who lose their jobs, guards, etc...where could they work? who will give them work?ZERO)so with all those things who might occur in the future..who knows what AC will be like if no more bars exists. Expat will leave. Money will be gone. Malls will be gone too. Investment will be gone. Look at La Union/San Fernando. Once the money was gone, the place was a dessert. Hence, they even dont have a 7/11 over there...and the mall...LOL...what a joke..hotels worn out, no bars...nothing...just some old guys playing cricket on the afternoon..well...not my cup of tea.
I dont want to blackpaint AC. I love AC,but be sure that AC will come to an end if the bars are gone. Ok, there is the casino, so for asians, japanese or koreans who wants to play cards and play some rounds of Golf its nice to do this in AC. But you have the casino also in Manila. Then you have the asian-korean-japanese KTV places just nearby. So after a day on the golf yard and after an evening spending your money in a casino, those guys also like to barhop and have some fun..so what if there isnt any fun any more? You think they will hop on a van drive 2 to 3 hours to Manila? No, they just skip AC and head direct to Manila, cause they have all the fun right there (not my cup of tea of course).
Again, if the bars are gone, AC will be gone. Why going there? To see Mt. Ayat? No beaches in AC. Foreigners get killed, robbed, etc. Police scams.
I would even go a bit farer...about what will happen to their plans to have a new international airport. I mean what for? Why fly there if the entertainment strip is gone with the NPA rebels just around the corner in the mountains nearby, this is also no good to promote motorcycle tours over there.
As long as moral apostels from Manila involve in this, I am a bit worried about the future of Angeles city. We all know that pinoys dont act business alike. They hardheaded with a double morality. If they decide to close AC down, then they will do that.No matter what the consequences it will bring to the region.
With regards to this ass..le Mayor Lim, who also brought down bars in Ermita, you could see that "those hypocrates" dont give a flying f..ck what they do. They wealthy and they dont care..
Dont forget that Philippines is a 4th world country with 4th world decision makers. I work with pinoys every day. Trust me, I know what I am talking.

However, I hope everything will be ok for AC.

Blink