North China - Beijing

[Bad Boy Billy]

Advice please guys. There is a chance I will arrive BJ approx 7am late this month. Thought I might head straight to The Den for brekky and Bloody Mary or 2.

What is the latest / earliest you guys have been in The Den and spotted the tail end of the previous nights Maggies shift also enjoying some late night food and drinks?

[Sky Ryder]

Since the quality and service at Maggie's is being discussed.

Any thoughts or suggestions for other destinations with WG clubs? I know HK and Shanghai are possibilities, but I've been to both cities (though with the S. O. So haven't partaken in extracurriculars) and I'd like to visit somewhere new. Also I think both of those options are going to be top-shelf in terms of $$$, more than even BJ I suspect.

Many thanks in advance!

I would echo BBB's comments. Shanghai can be a very "Western" city, and there are a lot of Chinese gals that have fair to good English skills in SH. The large majority of the WG's in SH that work in the clubs that cater to laowei are of some heritage other than Chinese.

If you only have 2-3 days, and want to have access to a large sample of the "native" gals, I wouldn't miss Chang Ping. It is a venerable male playground and the pricing is reasonable as well. There are literally 1000's of gals that work in the entertainment industry in one form or the other, and it is an easy trip from Shenzhen, Hong Kong, or Guangzhou. Big Swinging Dave is an excellent host, and my personal experiences with his hospitality are top notch. There is also one of the best spa's I have ever visited in C. P. To recover and recharge oneself in preparation for the next event. I will warn you however, it can become a bit addictive. I regularly go to C. P. Alone, and have always enjoyed the visit. Best of luck, enjoy the trip and make sure you take a moment to report your findings!

BBB, good to "see" you back!

Sky

[Bad Boy Billy]

Thanks BBB, that does help.....................I was only in SH briefly one time last year and didn't much care for the general atmosphere, too "Western" if that makes sense. But traveling alone with no putonghua skills, I guess that might be a good thing!

OK if you don't care too much for SH and you want to have a crack at DG / CP then don't be too fussed.

I speak only 10 words of Chinese. There are some great guys get to CP regularly. They will take you in like a long lost brother.

Drop BSD (BigSwinginDave) a pm and he will help you out. I have only been to CP twice but it is unique. You don't need english. Just need common sense. This might be an alternative for you.

[Jsxyz]

IMHO. For non-Chinese speaking Western guys who want the bar type pick-up scene then only SH and BJ offer this. SH has Manhattan, Judys, Bar Rouge, Revolution, Luna (Xin Tian Di in general) , Zapatas, old Bourbon St whatever it is called now etc.

Does that help? I often find myself in similar situation. 2 or 3 nights where I can go where I please. Tianjin was good 5 to 8 years ago. Nanjing was good 5 to 8 years ago. Alas now seems only SH or BJ.

Thanks BBB, that does help. I guess I'll reconsider SH. It's an easy direct cheap flight from the west coast of USA where I'm coming from, so that's another point in its favor. Also my SO will be just down the coast a bit south so easier to meet up with here when my playtime is over. I was only in SH briefly one time last year and didn't much care for the general atmosphere, too "Western" if that makes sense. But traveling alone with no putonghua skills, I guess that might be a good thing!

[Bad Boy Billy]

I have an upcoming short visit to China which is more or less completely open in terms of where I go ........Any thoughts or suggestions for other destinations with WG clubs?.........I know HK and Shanghai are possibilities, but I've been to both cities and I'd like to visit somewhere new.

IMHO. For non-Chinese speaking Western guys who want the bar type pick-up scene then only SH and BJ offer this. SH has Manhattan, Judys, Bar Rouge, Revolution, Luna (Xin Tian Di in general) , Zapatas, old Bourbon St whatever it is called now etc.

BJ has Maggies, Chocolate, Pig, Hollywood, Den, Suzy Wongs etc.

IMHO very little price difference between SH and BJ. Major bar in both cities - Manhattan in Sh and Maggies in BJ the w.hores want RMB1, 000 ea - Viets in SH. Mongols in BJ.

YES YES many other breeds available - Ruskies in both SH and BJ want RMB2,000+ LT.

Jsxyz I assume you are a take out / take back to your hotel type of guy?

I know of no other city that will give you a number of pick-up options from open FL bar types of outlets. Dongguan in south mainly take out from BBS no on site drinks etc.

Does that help? I often find myself in similar situation. 2 or 3 nights where I can go where I please. Tianjin was good 5 to 8 years ago. Nanjing was good 5 to 8 years ago. Alas now seems only SH or BJ.

[Jsxyz]

Since the quality and service at Maggie's is being discussed.

I've visited BJ twice in the past year, the first time visiting Maggie's but not partaking in any services; the second time indulging twice. Once mediocre and once the quintessential "Mongolian treatment" with a lovely slightly older woman who stayed all night, had breakfast with me, and never discussed $$. Even with such limited experience I do get the sentiment of the current discussions; I've been in Maggie's maybe 4 or 5 times in those two visits and I've never been knocked out by the available talent. Still, I quite like the setup, and therein lies my question:

I have an upcoming short visit to China which is more or less completely open in terms of where I go (I'm meeting up with my S. O. Who will be in Eastern China on business, but before I meet her I'm planning a few days somewhere else). What are some other cities that have clubs like Maggie's and The Pig? I'm not at all into BBS, and KTV I think is out for a non-native laowei with essentially zero Mandarin. I really enjoy the atmosphere of a bar where I can get easy take out if something tickles my fancy, but where I can just drink at semi-reasonable prices in peace if that's the way my night is going.

Any thoughts or suggestions for other destinations with WG clubs? I know HK and Shanghai are possibilities, but I've been to both cities (though with the S. O. So haven't partaken in extracurriculars) and I'd like to visit somewhere new. Also I think both of those options are going to be top-shelf in terms of $$$, more than even BJ I suspect.

Many thanks in advance!

[DavidCanada1979]

I agree with this 100, hard to get value (even in China) when the starting rates are now $1000 RMB.

Clearly a number of brothers have similar feelings about Maggies. But I would like to clarify the point I tried to make in my original post.

I never said MAGGIES was almost dead. I said the LEGEND of Maggies was almost dead.

I have NEVER had a bad experience with a Mongolian. I do not subscribe to this bullshit theory that you never ask price as price is understood. Crap. Never EVER in my life have I ever engaged the services of a w. Hore without 100% clarification of what price and level of service will be provided. And if said level of service is not forthcoming then level of payment may well be revised. Economis 101. And the Mongols are smart enough to understand this.

When I first started going to Maggies it was RMB500. Then RMB600. Then RMB800. And now RMB1, 000. 500 and 600 rates were in old Maggies. If you are not a long standing visitor to Maggies having been to both old and new Maggies pre-Olympics. Then you may not understand the thrust of my post.

Pre-Olympics at both M1 and M2 there was a month by month continual turnover in supply of fresh young Mongol students coming and going for 1 to 2 to 3 to 4 week periods to earn a few sheckels for their studies. These were genuine 'part timers'. They would offer a level of fresh enthusistic service that I had experienced nowhere else in the world. And they were intelligent. The whole experience was unique.

Come the Olympic crack down and the freedom to easliy visit, easily find customers, easily ply their new found trade was swept away from these girls. And hence so did the supply of girls coming into town. What we were then left with was basically the same talent pool. Who have been progressively getting older and older by the year. And some of them were well past their use by dates pre-Olympic period IMHO.

So whilst Maggies still does exist and prosper to some extent. My view of the 'Legend of Maggies' is DEAD. That is I cannot visit every 6 or 8 weeks and find a fresh young talent supply ready to please. Many of whom I would never see again. Rather I am confronted by the same old line up of 'town bikes' visit after visit after visit.

I have no problem paying RMB1, 000 at the drop of a hat. I happily pay RMB1, 500 for a superstar. Hell I paid RMB2, 000 in November for a certain superstar who I have wanted to peg for quite some time. But I really get disappointed if I have to settle for the same old tired line-up of 'matress workers' and no choice of a sweet young new thing.

I will be back in BJ maybe late this month. Definitely late March. And I will definitely be trawling Maggies nightly. But IMHO this is now Maggies 3. God I miss Maggies 1 a Maggies 2.

[Bad Boy Billy]

Clearly a number of brothers have similar feelings about Maggies. But I would like to clarify the point I tried to make in my original post.

I never said MAGGIES was almost dead. I said the LEGEND of Maggies was almost dead.

I have NEVER had a bad experience with a Mongolian. I do not subscribe to this bullshit theory that you never ask price as price is understood. Crap. Never EVER in my life have I ever engaged the services of a w.hore without 100% clarification of what price and level of service will be provided. And if said level of service is not forthcoming then level of payment may well be revised. Economis 101. And the Mongols are smart enough to understand this.

When I first started going to Maggies it was RMB500. Then RMB600. Then RMB800. And now RMB1, 000. 500 and 600 rates were in old Maggies. If you are not a long standing visitor to Maggies having been to both old and new Maggies pre-Olympics - then you may not understand the thrust of my post.

Pre-Olympics at both M1 and M2 there was a month by month continual turnover in supply of fresh young Mongol students coming and going for 1 to 2 to 3 to 4 week periods to earn a few sheckels for their studies. These were genuine 'part timers'. They would offer a level of fresh enthusistic service that I had experienced nowhere else in the world. And they were intelligent. The whole experience was unique.

Come the Olympic crack down and the freedom to easliy visit, easily find customers, easily ply their new found trade was swept away from these girls. And hence so did the supply of girls coming into town. What we were then left with was basically the same talent pool - who have been progressively getting older and older by the year. And some of them were well past their use by dates pre-Olympic period IMHO.

So whilst Maggies still does exist and prosper to some extent. My view of the 'Legend of Maggies' is DEAD. That is I cannot visit every 6 or 8 weeks and find a fresh young talent supply ready to please - many of whom I would never see again - rather I am confronted by the same old line up of 'town bikes' visit after visit after visit.

I have no problem paying RMB1,000 at the drop of a hat. I happily pay RMB1,500 for a superstar. Hell I paid RMB2,000 in November for a certain superstar who I have wanted to peg for quite some time. But I really get disappointed if I have to settle for the same old tired line-up of 'matress workers' and no choice of a sweet young new thing.

I will be back in BJ maybe late this month - definitely late March - and I will definitely be trawling Maggies nightly. But IMHO this is now Maggies 3. God I miss Maggies 1 a Maggies 2.

[Hendrik]

Interesting to read the reactions to Hendrik's post.

I am also surprised that many of you make similar experiences. I was probably hoping that it was just me making bad choices or having bad luck during the last months.

... had some of the most amazing nights of my life with Mongolian girls and never ever negotiated or even talked about price, not one runner. Never paid more than1000 discretely in the morning and without prior consent they never left before a nice joint breakfast. The key is how you treat them. I could repeat all I wanted, as much as that I got preferential status aka they skipped other appointments for me.

That's exactly what I am missing!

Anyhow, it's a conundrum because until the guys who pay start to do so, the ladies who sell will evaporate to other clubs and other cities. But many of the guys want the real young ones and those are just not available at M's. C'est la vie.

At any rate, I still enjoy the music there, and it's still a great place to drink and watch people.

I also hear complaints from the older girls that times have changed and the business is not as it used to be. On the other hand, Maggies is still packed at least during the week-ends, and I do see girls regularly leaving with male company throughout the night.

I am just wondering if there is not a way to stop this downward spiral by supporting the good girls and not paying attention to the others ones. I am not suggesting to explicitly start mentioning names again on this board on order to protect the girls, but if all of us started giving clear feedback to the girls on pricing and performance, I am sure that it would quickly make the round amongst the different tribes and eventually force them re-think their business model.

I would hate to see Maggies just becoming a nice bar with great music, that is open until 5am.

[Beijing Fox]

Interesting to read the reactions to Hendrik's post.

I have not been a proactive visitor / client to Maggie's since the Olympics. So I cannot comment on the current situation, but I was a 'regular' (= 2-3 times a week) before the Olympics.

When the problems started, I happened to find a steady 'solution', which is still ongoing.

Already then, there were a couple of bad apples, initially asking for 2, 000 etc. In advance and then leaving after the first shot. However those bad experiences were always compensated by other stellar ones.

If those are not longer to have, then really, Maggie's is dead.

RIP.

I agree with you

[El Frances]

This overpaying situation was clear to me 2 years ago and I was flamed when I said it then.

Maggies is dead but its been dead for years now. Ever since the price went up from 600RMB. I only ever saw one decent looking girl in there although admittedly I rarely went there because the place was a joke. Pay way over the odds and wait around until 2am to get any action. Talk about dictating terms!

I agree with you

[FernandoAlonso]

Funny,

I also rarely go there but had some of the most amazing nights of my life with Mongolian girls and never ever negotiated or even talked about price, not one runner. Never paid more than1000 discretely in the morning and without prior consent they never left before a nice joint breakfast. The key is how you treat them. I could repeat all I wanted, as much as that I got preferential status aka they skipped other appointments for me.

True is nevertheless we live in a crackdown and a economical crisis and finding real quality is now a matter of a private phonelist. The few left stunners have all become captive, they never show up in the convent again anymore which does not necessarily mean they are not available but all related to p4p has become more hidden and expensive in Beijing, this is also what you see concerning the Northern sisters. This is the harsh reality of a developping China! But as said with some effort gems still can be found and enjoyed! Agreed with my mates paying 1500 plus for an average Mongolian is plainly stupid IMHO but happens quite frequently and why should the girls say no? This is a free market and some idiots pay even 2000 to 3000, so of course prices go up! 600 rmb is gone a long time, same like paying a dollar for a gallon regular.

Just my two cents.

FA.

This overpaying situation was clear to me 2 years ago and I was flamed when I said it then.

People not thinking things through and not doing a correct comparison is the problem. Most office grls in China get paid around 6, 000RMB per month. Most office girls in Western countries get paid around $3, 000 per month. Most office girls in Mongolia (if they can even get a job) get around 4, 000RMB equivalent per month. Paying a Mongolian girl 1, 500RMB is like paying a girl in a Western country $1, 000.

Maggies is dead but its been dead for years now. Ever since the price went up from 600RMB. I only ever saw one decent looking girl in there although admittedly I rarely went there because the place was a joke. Pay way over the odds and wait around until 2am to get any action. Talk about dictating terms!

[Bowerboy]

This overpaying situation was clear to me 2 years ago and I was flamed when I said it then.

People not thinking things through and not doing a correct comparison is the problem. Most office grls in China get paid around 6, 000RMB per month. Most office girls in Western countries get paid around $3, 000 per month. Most office girls in Mongolia (if they can even get a job) get around 4, 000RMB equivalent per month. Paying a Mongolian girl 1, 500RMB is like paying a girl in a Western country $1, 000.

Maggies is dead but its been dead for years now. Ever since the price went up from 600RMB. I only ever saw one decent looking girl in there although admittedly I rarely went there because the place was a joke. Pay way over the odds and wait around until 2am to get any action. Talk about dictating terms!

[Canada]

I have not been to Beijing since late November but I will be back in February. I was at M's and there are a few girls asking ridiculous prices but I took out a couple of girls I knew and gave them 1000 in the morning and they were happy. I think 1000 is still the price for the regulars. I have a couple girls that I regulary see every 3 months and they are happy with 1000. I think there are new guys going there and paying 1500 and the girls will gladly take a higher fee. I will be in BJ this month so I will see for myself.

[Kajos]

Anyone tried ChinBro's escort service yet? Or have another one to recommend? PM'ed ChinBro a few days ago but looks like he hasn't been online in a while.

Since I'm a newbie here, I would like to share a good escort service contact with brothers here. Hope it's useful to you.

I got the contact from one of my good friends several days ago. I've called two hottest girls already. They're really wonderful.

The girls there charge RMB 600 for one hour, and 1500 for overnight.