Kyiv

[El Cubanito]

Thanks for your report. I heard an experience like yours from dozens of men. This looks like to a description of a great theatrical drama: different people see different details. I think your brain prefers to remember some details instead of some others.

In my statistics, a real hardcore prostitute and her business have very different rules. If a man shows her how much he is a gentleman for just a minute, then he is ruined: she wants more money, she provides less services, she becomes into a bad attitude. Seduction with a prostitute is a harakiri.

And sex is not a pussy only. And anal is a duty. And 99% girls are not able to a good blowjob: a girl should never touch the penis with hands. Since I understood what is the art of sex (and I got rid of mass conformism) , I consider sex is not a pussy only and a pussy only is not sex.

And I think Dominican girls have a different attitude in comparison of Western girls and Eastern European girls. And, in general, the "gentleman style" never works good for sufficient results. I think in 4 billions of girls in the world and for the law of large numbers, you came across a favorable case for some time. I see real womanizers, who get lasting results, are lovely but also they don't care about anybody. It depends what do you mean for seduction. It seems seduction never means a real feeling for both man and woman. And I always call it as prostitution.

It all depends on the chick you are with, but rip your heart girls I try to stay away. Yes you are right Dominican girls, or latin girls for that matter are softer. But I have also met some Colombiana in Cartagena that just right awful attitude. So yes I have seen my fare share of bad girls, but in general this type of treatment work for them I have found out.

[El Cubanito]

Patipa is a very young crowd, Shooters is a little older crowd but still lot's of students, Decadence is closed, Avalon is a D'Lux wannabee. I used to go there weekly but they remodelled the place and tried an "exclusive" policy. Not sure they got the crowds back.

Thanks for the input Irish lad. I have attached some pic of the way I dress. If any of them is not cool for the above clubs, please let me know.

[El Cubanito]

I don't know what you mean by 'completion'. I am older buy very white and blonde, they never rejected me, but of the 4 clubs you mention above, I have only been to Avalon. Make no mistake, beautiful women are a worldwide commodity, like gold. They know it since they are 11 years old. They are always expensive, but in Kiev they are less expensive because of the economy. They are not stupid, they know how to manipulate you and extract everything they can. Top girls cost top dollars, they always have men willing and able to pay for it. You may want to go down a notch or two, and you will get a lot more satisfaction and less greed.

Cubanito, as long as you keep to the center of Kiev, and out of the streets by midnight, or in company, I think you will be fine. Don't worry. Don't read more than what I wrote in these lines.

By completion are you like Andy Garcia, Luis Miguel, Alex Rodriquez type of skin or are you like David Ortiz from The Boston Red Sox. Which way does your skin color goes to?

[El Cubanito]

I don't know what you mean by 'completion'. I am older buy very white and blonde, they never rejected me, but of the 4 clubs you mention above, I have only been to Avalon. Make no mistake, beautiful women are a worldwide commodity, like gold. They know it since they are 11 years old. They are always expensive, but in Kiev they are less expensive because of the economy. They are not stupid, they know how to manipulate you and extract everything they can. Top girls cost top dollars, they always have men willing and able to pay for it. You may want to go down a notch or two, and you will get a lot more satisfaction and less greed.

Cubanito, as long as you keep to the center of Kiev, and out of the streets by midnight, or in company, I think you will be fine. Don't worry. Don't read more than what I wrote in these lines.

Pedro, then Kiev is sort of like New York City (Manhattan) , if you stay between 32nd and 86th street on either the West or East side of Manhattan then you will be ok, even after midnight. If you go past these street in either direction then you are in a world of $h! T. I have been in these streets at 4:00 AM and have never had any issues. I am from New York City.

[El Cubanito]

Actually, the girls have explained "face control" to me as manager controlling that only young and well groomed women attending the club. Like Shooters, shere you cannot enter with sneakers on. D'Lux has higher standards. Some time ago there was a report on this here in the forum.

Thank you Roll for giving us an update. We shall see what kind of "control" they have when I go to these places.

[Limarian]

If you Google the 'phone numbers (if they send them). From Mamba girls that you have targetted, (some people haven't twigged that you can search by a series of numbers as well as by key words) you will find that many come up as from 'Fire Escorts' or 'Top Modals' I guess this means that it is an agency that is placing the ads. As reported before, my experience with both Mamba and Top models is that you will just get whoever is 'on duty' or available that day turning up.

There seems actually and surprisingly to be a poverty of reliable escort agencies in Kiev compared to say London where you are spoiled for choice. Reports re. Gia, which dominates the market, have not been that enthusistic.

I used to monger in Prague where AAA Travel Consult and Prague Bunnies used to consistently provide reliable and quality service and the photos were good quality, genuine, accurate and recent (now apparently sadly closed down) and I switched to Kiev because I was seduced by the apparent availability of loveliness evidenced in the street, whereas in Prague the loveliness is there. But not so much at large.

With the demise of River Palace. Where you didn't really have try very hard and would quite possibly get picked up yourself, the situation is a bit more difficult for shy little creatures like myself who would rather pick up a phone than face the possibilty of a rejected advance.

Erotic massages in Kiev of course are still easy to set up without any leg work but they don't offer the same satisfaction. If any of yous are aware of Kiev agencies that do offer accurate pics and service, that info. Would be most welcome. Incidentally in London, for the last few years there has been a slow and almost imperceptible clean up going on. You will no longer find the notices in shop windows advertising massage and the local newspapers have banished massage parlour and escort ads. It really just leaves the internet. You can speculate that if the government ever gets round to censoring the internet how easy it would be for them to knock out the smaller target. I am just rambling. Its been a slow day.

[PedroToronja]

Have you been to any of these clubs: Patipa, Shooters, Decadence or Avalon. Do any of these clubs as far as you know have "face control"? What is your completion like? Are you like me in completion? Did anything happen to you with these guys over in Ukraine? Did you have "face control" done on you?

El Cubanito

I don't know what you mean by 'completion'. I am older buy very white and blonde, they never rejected me, but of the 4 clubs you mention above, I have only been to Avalon. Make no mistake, beautiful women are a worldwide commodity, like gold. They know it since they are 11 years old. They are always expensive, but in Kiev they are less expensive because of the economy. They are not stupid, they know how to manipulate you and extract everything they can. Top girls cost top dollars, they always have men willing and able to pay for it. You may want to go down a notch or two, and you will get a lot more satisfaction and less greed.

Cubanito, as long as you keep to the center of Kiev, and out of the streets by midnight, or in company, I think you will be fine. Don't worry. Don't read more than what I wrote in these lines.

[PedroToronja]

Actually, the girls have explained "face control" to me as manager controlling that only young and well groomed women attending the club. Like Shooters, shere you cannot enter with sneakers on. D'Lux has higher standards. Some time ago there was a report on this here in the forum.

Face control means they allow girls in, who appear to be able to have older men spend their money buying them drinks, if possible the full bottles. The clubs are after money, like everybody else.

[Irish Lad]

Have you been to any of these clubs: Patipa, Shooters, Decadence or Avalon. Do any of these clubs as far as you know have "face control"? What is your completion like? Are you like me in completion? Did anything happen to you with these guys over in Ukraine? Did you have "face control" done on you?

El Cubanito

Patipa is a very young crowd, Shooters is a little older crowd but still lot's of students, Decadence is closed, Avalon is a D'Lux wannabee. I used to go there weekly but they remodelled the place and tried an "exclusive" policy. Not sure they got the crowds back.

[Irish Lad]

Actually, the girls have explained "face control" to me as manager controlling that only young and well groomed women attending the club. Like Shooters, shere you cannot enter with sneakers on. D'Lux has higher standards. Some time ago there was a report on this here in the forum.

Pretty much so.

It is quite cruel sometimes. A friend arrived in D'Lux with a girlfriend and the manager stopped him saying "are you sure? We have much better looking girls inside".

No sneakers is standard unless you are me, and dress smartly enough. Cruiser D goes for the suit and tie look, Hunter Dave for the smart casual.

[AColonizer]

Thanks for your report. I heard an experience like yours from dozens of men. This looks like to a description of a great theatrical drama: different people see different details. I think your brain prefers to remember some details instead of some others.

In my statistics, a real hardcore prostitute and her business have very different rules. If a man shows her how much he is a gentleman for just a minute, then he is ruined: she wants more money, she provides less services, she becomes into a bad attitude. Seduction with a prostitute is a harakiri.

And sex is not a pussy only. And anal is a duty. And 99% girls are not able to a good blowjob: a girl should never touch the penis with hands. Since I understood what is the art of sex (and I got rid of mass conformism) , I consider sex is not a pussy only and a pussy only is not sex.

And I think Dominican girls have a different attitude in comparison of Western girls and Eastern European girls. And, in general, the "gentleman style" never works good for sufficient results. I think in 4 billions of girls in the world and for the law of large numbers, you came across a favorable case for some time. I see real womanizers, who get lasting results, are lovely but also they don't care about anybody. It depends what do you mean for seduction. It seems seduction never means a real feeling for both man and woman. And I always call it as prostitution.

Guys,

As I read these posts it seems that some of you want to go up to a girl, say how much and tell her to spread her legs. Guys, even hard core hookers want the fantasy that they are being courted. The illussion of courting a woman, even a hard core professional has NEVER EVER let me go wrong. I even had one girl in Dominican Republic tell me that she did not want my money, if anything she just wanted to spend the day with me and that would be payment enough because the way I treated her. Let me tell you she was very good company and I was rewarded very handsomely. BTW, the girl was not a Dog or anything like that she quite beautiful and exotic. So guys if you want a girl to treat you right in Bed, treat her right and deliver the toudown when you have her in Bed, you will be rewarded.

I know that some will not agree with me but that has been my experience and my 2 cent.

El Cubanito

[Guntherus]

Actually, the girls have explained "face control" to me as manager controlling that only young and well groomed women attending the club. Like Shooters, shere you cannot enter with sneakers on. D'Lux has higher standards. Some time ago there was a report on this here in the forum.

[El Cubanito]

No, they won't, but I suggest you take my advice, for your own sake. Enjoy!

Have you been to any of these clubs: Patipa, Shooters, Decadence or Avalon. Do any of these clubs as far as you know have "face control"? What is your completion like? Are you like me in completion? Did anything happen to you with these guys over in Ukraine? Did you have "face control" done on you?

El Cubanito

[El Cubanito]

Guys,

As I read these posts it seems that some of you want to go up to a girl, say how much and tell her to spread her legs. Guys, even hard core hookers want the fantasy that they are being courted. The illussion of courting a woman, even a hard core professional has NEVER EVER let me go wrong. I even had one girl in Dominican Republic tell me that she did not want my money, if anything she just wanted to spend the day with me and that would be payment enough because the way I treated her. Let me tell you she was very good company and I was rewarded very handsomely. BTW, the girl was not a Dog or anything like that she quite beautiful and exotic. So guys if you want a girl to treat you right in Bed, treat her right and deliver the toudown when you have her in Bed, you will be rewarded.

I know that some will not agree with me but that has been my experience and my 2 cent.

El Cubanito

[Ddlbss]

Dear friends please be advised that bad economic situation in Ukraine significantly sliced girls' rates. The rates are about 25-30% down comparing to last year's rates. That applies to upscale escorts though (those that used to be $200 / hr and above) and girls these days are much easier to negotiate.