Mombasa

[Willyboy]

Really hard to decipher the message through all that gibberish. So, you don't want them to have an iPad, or you need one? Let me know I'll make a donation and leave it at Kahama, so you can easily find it

Plaese not spend or send money for my. Kenya girs are reddy to stiel it.

Small mobile from 2k. Is good for my. If it is going, than I not crying.

[Bareback Jack]

The kenya girls should be ashamed to inform us as to deceive and lie to. If you have not made&8203; &8203; ? I have encountered no other! You might want to understand? Or do you think they are for their I-pad itself worked? Have deceived us?

Really hard to decipher the message through all that gibberish. So, you don't want them to have an iPad, or you need one? Let me know I'll make a donation and leave it at Kahama, so you can easily find it

[Bareback Jack]

Seems you have a moral issue with the fact that your over-paying creates more prostitution in Kenya. Or you saw your mongering and over-spending as an act of helping those poor African women?

I don't have any moral issues with that, quite to the contrary. This is a mongering forum and if I had moral issues I won't be here. I just refuse to let my spending habit to be dictated by market theories or self important individuals. Right now, I will make this even a sport and take it to new heights. In the end if you don't like that. Tough! Nothing much you can do about that.

[Willyboy]

So what did you set out to prove? Was it that malayas are as susceptible to deception and lies as are regular civilians, and that they are often willing to accept you at face value. Until proven otherwise?

I find it strange that you would sacrifice 7 days of your precious vacation time to play mind games with WG's. It seems you derived a good deal of satisfaction out of tricking them into giving up their wares for free.

I take it, from the way how you express yourself, that you are a well educated person. Does it not offend your sense of fairplay to engage in a battle of wits with young girls who are most likely from a socially disadvantaged background and have never been taught how to reason logically. Shame on you!

The kenya girls should be ashamed to inform us as to deceive and lie to. If you have not made&8203; &8203; ? I have encountered no other! You might want to understand? Or do you think they are for their I-pad itself worked? Have deceived us?

[LustyHombre]

Customers who are consistently overpaying are a very important factor why prostitution keeps growing in Kenya. It's not the only factor off course, but it's a very important one. And it is one which we ourselves create.

That's why I agree with Willyboy, etc. In these conditions there is a lot of room for getting what you want at lower prices also. And mostly that will occur later in the night or with fixed contacts, when the heavy spenders are already sleeping like a bear after they spread their seeds.

There is another dimension which comes into play as well, namely value or rather : perceived value.

No question that most people would be prepared to pay more for a Rolls Royce than for a Hillman Imp. But how much more? Is a multiple of 60 adequate? And maybe it is to me but not to you. Thanks God, it's a free world and everybody has to pay with their own money and be able to justify it, either internally or to the wife!

Same with girls : am I content with the leftovers at a night club at the end of the night and maybe even try to bargain her down a bit further? Or do I chose from the prime time offerings and pay close to the asking price?

I don't think there is a Right or Wrong here. Everybody decides for him or herself and I hope will be happy with their choice.

If you pity the guy who has never experienced the pleasure of driving a RR, remember only " what I don't know I won't miss ".

[LustyHombre]

So what did you set out to prove? Was it that malayas are as susceptible to deception and lies as are regular civilians, and that they are often willing to accept you at face value. Until proven otherwise?

I find it strange that you would sacrifice 7 days of your precious vacation time to play mind games with WG's. It seems you derived a good deal of satisfaction out of tricking them into giving up their wares for free.

I take it, from the way how you express yourself, that you are a well educated person. Does it not offend your sense of fairplay to engage in a battle of wits with young girls who are most likely from a socially disadvantaged background and have never been taught how to reason logically. Shame on you!

[Cheupe]

It's just basic econ 101. She has what you want. She wants to get as much as she can for it. You want to get it as cheaply as possible.

In Kenya, no mzungu can manage "as cheap as possible". There are girls doing it for 20/=! But someone might find himself looking for a gas mask first.

[Woef Woef]

You are having a laugh, aren't you. So it's Willyboy and you who are actually trying to eradicate prostitution by paying less, so that other choices of job can become more attractive? Well, that's by far the most ridiculous argument I've ever heard

No, I always want to pay the right price for the right product / service. I guess you don't waste dollars on most other products / services you buy so why you are willing to do it on hookers?

Seems you have a moral issue with the fact that your over-paying creates more prostitution in Kenya. Or you saw your mongering and over-spending as an act of helping those poor African women?

[Naughty]

It's just basic econ 101. She has what you want. She wants to get as much as she can for it. You want to get it as cheaply as possible. You negotiate. If you reach a mutually satisfactory agreement, the transaction is consumated. If not, negotiations continue or are broken off and both parties seek other business partners.

Everything else is just posturing and swag or bribery. Chat. Reach a compromise. Go do the deed!

[Bareback Jack]

What do you think would be the probability that your young daughters are going to end up doing? Working in a hotel? Or spreading legs?

I don't know and I don't really care. I'm certainly not influencing my children's choice of job. Nobody is forced to choose the path of more money. It's a conscious decision.

Customers who are consistently overpaying are a very important factor why prostitution keeps growing in Kenya. It's not the only factor off course, but it's a very important one. And it is one which we ourselves create

You are having a laugh, aren't you. So it's Willyboy and you who are actually trying to eradicate prostitution by paying less, so that other choices of job can become more attractive? Well, that's by far the most ridiculous argument I've ever heard

[Bareback Jack]

Looking for these two very different women I am sure we could never agree on what price we pay.

Exactly! We possibly wouldn't even agree on who is beautiful or lovely for that matter and we don't need to. You're happy the way you're rolling and I'm happy my way.

[Cheupe]

Using "average income" is misleading if it is true bottom 80% possess 6% of the wealth in Kenya (15% in USA?) In such a hopelessly schewed picture, the more realistic measure is the median. Or mode, which will of course refelct a very squalid state of affairs especially in Kenya. The girls are very poor. Am sure the "Average" income figure lies somewhere in the top 10th centile group.

And the Mzungu who can afford a holiday in Kenya are probably on the favourable side of their native median. The girls know this, so I would expect them to haggle. Who wouldn't?

[Pete Benetar]

I saw your other post where you quoted statistics from sources like IMF, CIA Factbook etc. You seem to like those statistics a lot. I'm sure you are aware that a simple arithmetic average isn't a very representative measure. We could take a deeper dive into stochastic calculus but that would surely be beyond the scope of this topic. However, even in the US it's a pretty irrelevant number as it doesn't even account for regional differences.

Anyway, we can go on about this forever and end up with no conclusion at all

Stochastic calc? LOL, that's why I made the original qualifier with respect to using price parity stats etc. These numbers and my simple arithmetic are no substitute for what real people are living on. I've posted pics of the girl I brought home with me from Accra on a Study visa. Most comments on the Ghana board appreciated this woman's beauty. I have pretty high standards physically and I would rate her as an "8", but her non physical attributes (intellect, honesty, personality, libido, values) take her solidly into the 9-10 range in my book.

This woman from Accra was thriving on 100-150 USD per month and I am reasonably certain NBO or MBSA are not substantially more expensive than ACC if at all. But she's not a professional working girl and never conducted herself as such.

So your last comment is the only thing I think I could possibly agree with you on, as we are interested in much different partners. Personally I do not travel to 3rd world nations to support a woman there living in a 1st or developed world lifestyle. I seek a lovely woman who is content with her station in life and is happy to have male companionship and to be treated lavishly. Gifting and whoring are optional, but of course you want to be generous with a woman you befriend and care for.

You suggest we should be making sex a highly profitable enterprise whereby the woman not only exceeds the national per capita by a large multiple but also profits (e. G."barely breaks even" on 20, 000 shilling per month?) such that she might support her family, friends or perhaps invest her profits in a well balanced investment portfolio for retirement.

Looking for these two very different women I am sure we could never agree on what price we pay.

[Willyboy]

I saw your other post where you quoted statistics from sources like IMF, CIA Factbook etc. You seem to like those statistics a lot. I'm sure you are aware that a simple arithmetic average isn't a very representative measure. We could take a deeper dive into stochastic calculus but that would surely be beyond the scope of this topic. However, even in the US it's a pretty irrelevant number as it doesn't even account for regional differences.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, CIA for instances quotes GDP per capita at $48, 500 which should not be mistaken for income. If you were to arrive at average income numbers in Kenya, or anywhere in Africa for that matter, it would be mostly guess work. Many workers are in unofficial employment, without registration and tax payments and small businesses are allowed to pay a 2% turn over tax on what they file as turnover. KRA has not yet developed the capabilities of the IRS or HMRC for that matter.

If you have asked around, you will of course hear what people tell you they earn, but have you really ever seen a payslip here in Kenya? Most waiters will tell you they work for 6k, room maids for 7k, etc. If you speak or know senior management in hotels, they will tell you another, quite different story. The truth might be somewhere in between. Earnings for police officers have been published officially. Police and army are usually among the lowest earners in almost every country. If you take that for instance you get a much better idea of what the earnings at the lower bracket of unskilled workers are. The official figure of the government for a minimum wage employment for a house girl for instance is 7, 000.

We all know that these wages are too low to make a living. Police spice up their wages by open bribery and most employees have some kind of money generating mini business on the side. If you really care to take a look around you will get to understand real prices as well. The cheapest 1-bed home with electricity for example somewhere deep inside the non-tourist side of Mtwapa goes for about 4k per month, on the other side you will pay a minimum of 10k, hardly something someone could afford from a 5k / month income.

So, let's add together: 10k for a bedsit. 1k for electricity, another 6k to bring food on the table, clothes and hair salon (for women) add another 3k, so even the most cost conscious babe will need at least 20k a month to barely break even.

A while ago I spoke to one of those mzungu "Marondo". He lived here in Kenya off a 800€/month pension. He had a small flat for about 12k in Mtwapa. He said he found it hard to get around with the money. According to his own account he had to cut down on girls and would afford himself only 2-3 girls per week for short time (1k) , as otherwise he wouldn't be able to maintain himself, given the real cost of living.

If you believe that 5, 000 is the average income in Mombasa or Nairobi, you will also believe in Santa Claus. Do you really think the dramatic expansion of brands like Nakumatt, Tukys etc has been fuelled by tourists only? Far away from the truth.

Anyway, we can go on about this forever and end up with no conclusion at all

I will not giving food for persons renting UNDER 5k / month. In Mtwapa. Very nice appartments for 8k / month. (just after kendas, new appartments) yes, for kenya kimbo is 800 euro. Small money to survivel in mtwapa. Special if this guys drinking like fouls in cheers. Likoli (after ferry) staying +1000 rooms (4 wals +bed) for 1000ksh / month.

I now waiter in one hotel in town. 8k salery (having one not working wife end 2 kids) hi survivel from this money)

[Cheupe]

Average per capita income. Rather tricky. In Kenya, bottom 80% have 6% of net worth, and in the USA it is about 15% So in such ridiculously skewed situations, we should probably think median or mode. Which is much more "squalid" than artificial "average". These girls are poor. Forget average.

Just that, someone coming from the first world just looking to get laid, or on business trip is likely to be coming from the favourable side of the median. He will more likely run into women who belong to the same side of the native median. They have an idea, so they will inevitably haggle.