Sosua Reports

[Charles Pooter]

Yes, you can tell by looking, though it is not 100% infallible and there are some people who are mixed, or Dominicans of Haitian descent. Haitians are mostly dark skinned, have characteristically wide spaced eyes, characteristic hair styles and dress, a characteristic accent in Spanish, have French sounding names, make frequent references to Senor Jesus, and are usually found in the company of other Haitians speaking Kreyol among themselves. You will almost never see a Haitiana smoking a cigarette and they rarely drink much alcohol. Many of them live in Montellano or Los Cangrejos.

Dominicanas are often lighter skinned, speak with a characteristic Dominican accent, have Spanish names, and are found in the company of other Dominicanas.

With a bit of practice you can tell the difference at 50 paces.

I would claim to be always 100% right at 50 paces, but of course if one does not make the person's acquaintance you will never find out if you are wrong, so perhaps in all modesty I should reduce that to 99%.

Interesting that Frannie should mention the wide-spaced eyes. I always joke with my girlfriend that she has some rana blood as her eyes at practically on the sides of her head. Just joking and most people would say she has an attractive face, but she does have particularly wide-spaced eyes.

Another common giveaway that Frannie did not mention is a gap between the two central front teeth. Also Haitians tend to have large hands and feet. Even quite dainty girls will have long feet. Haitians have more lanky, muscular frames, through the cruel process of natural selection on the plantations, and even after the revolution these were maintained by the enormous amount of physical work they did and the amount of walking though lack of roads and transport. Even today it is commonplace for small children to walk two or three miles and back to fetch a 5-gallon container of water each day.

Of course there are also white Haitians and fair-skinned Haitians and if you watch Haitian films and TV you will see plenty of those. But Haitian society is even more racist and color-conscious than Dominican, and these mixed-race Haitians have always owned and ruled most of the country. Papa Doc was a vile dictator, but one of his few good deeds was to empower "black" Haitians somewhat, including making Kreyol the joint official language. Indeed their support for that reason helped keep him in power. But even he did not get very far in changing the long-term centers of power and wealth.

So these fairer-skinned Haitians (as in the DR, but to an even greater extent) have all the advantages in getting educated and being offered jobs and for that reason will rarely surface in the DR as putas.

There are plenty of black Dominicans as well. Mostly these will be of Haitian descent. But there are also lots of "Cocolos" as well. These are the descendents of black freed slaves who came from the former British colonies to harvest sugar cane. I pride myself that I can distinguish these from Haitians, as Dominicans claim to do (and of course rating Cocolos above Haitians) but I do not know why this should be possible as the forebears of both came from West Africa. Maybe it is through dress and mannerisms and, obviously, speaking better Spanish.

[Frannie]

I do not remember this being discussed anywhere before, so I will ask it. I've heard many guys say that hatians are better choices than the dominicqn chicas.

Can you, and how do you tell, by looking at a girl, if she is hatian or dominican?

Yes, you can tell by looking, though it is not 100% infallible and there are some people who are mixed, or Dominicans of Haitian descent. Haitians are mostly dark skinned, have characteristically wide spaced eyes, characteristic hair styles and dress, a characteristic accent in Spanish, have French sounding names, make frequent references to Senor Jesus, and are usually found in the company of other Haitians speaking Kreyol among themselves. You will almost never see a Haitiana smoking a cigarette and they rarely drink much alcohol. Many of them live in Montellano or Los Cangrejos.

Dominicanas are often lighter skinned, speak with a characteristic Dominican accent, have Spanish names, and are found in the company of other Dominicanas.

With a bit of practice you can tell the difference at 50 paces.

[OldKool]

Haitian girls I have had were great in the sack. They were much easier to negotiate with. 1000 pesos and they are happy. I cannot say they enjoy it more or are just hard workers. I am sure there are exceptions. Best blow job I ever had was from average looking haitain girl. I thought I nothing in the tank but she curled my toes. Hatians come in many colors but are usually dark and thin. However I have seen some with bodies that are off the charts. They rarely are accused of scamming. I tend to like the malutto look of DR girls but will give a cute haitan a shot every now and then.

DR.

I do not remember this being discussed anywhere before, so I will ask it. I've heard many guys say that hatians are better choices than the dominicqn chicas.

Can you, and how do you tell, by looking at a girl, if she is hatian or dominican?

[Frannie]

Is it that in your experience most of the Haitians you attempt to deal with don't understand when you speak French to them? Because I have not encountered one who did not understand or did not speak pretty damn good. I don't know a lick of Kreyol and wouldn't know it if it came up and slapped me right in the face.

Of course they will understand some words, because many words are the same in Kreyol and French, especially if you allow for dropping nearly all the 'r' sounds in French as the rolled 'r' is unknown in Kreyol, but when I was in Port au Prince I did not find French very useful for communicating with the people who were homeless after the earthquake.

If you speak French you are obviously a fairly good linguist, but I am surprised you say you have never encountered Kreyol, because if you are used to conversing with Haitians and Haitianas in the DR, it would be hard to avoid. You may have thought you were hearing heavily accented French and not noticed the grammatical changes, changes in the pronouns, verb forms, and the words used to ask questions, or the use of the word 'bagay' every fifth word.

Nearly all the Haitianas I meet in the DR speak Spanish fairly well, so as that is my language of choice, I usually speak to them in Spanish. When they speak to each other they always speak in Kreyol, not expecting to have their conversations dialed into by such as I, and laugh if I reply in my lousy Kreyol.

[Alex Deuce]

Kreyol is basically broken French like American Ebonics. A native French speaker will have some difficulty with the "slang" but should be able to communicate at a base level. It's often easier to communicate with even the most uneducated Hatian as they speak multiple languages.

[Ath Trainer]

I do not remember this being discussed anywhere before, so I will ask it. I've heard many guys say that hatians are better choices than the dominicqn chicas.

Can you, and how do you tell, by looking at a girl, if she is hatian or dominican?

[Charles Pooter]

5% of Haitians speak French fairly well, though heavily regionalized (like a Jamaican speaking English) but 98% have Kreyol as their first language. Most of the latter speak varying amounts of French, from only a few words and phrases upwards.

The fact that Mr Enternational has found a lot of haitianas who speak French in Sosua illustrates the difference between Dominican and Haitian putas and why I prefer the latter. Most Dominican putas (apart from a few more educated ones with mental or drug problems) come from the least educated strata of society (same as street putas in most countries). Whereas many Haitian ones in the DR don't. Because of the appalling economic situation in Haiti, girls who can read and write and do simple math (and sometimes a lot more) , who could get jobs if they were Dominicans in the DR, are unable to get any work at all. The ones who come to the DR to hook need a lot of courage and initiative and a little start-up money. I have been with haitianas who were qualified nurses, teachers and secretaries. Such people will have gone to school and learned some French. They are also more likely to make responsible and interesting companions than illiterate Dominican trash.

The absolute no-hopers stay in Haiti and slowly starve. They are the ones with no education and who speak only Kreyol.

The other reason Frannie and I emphasize Kreyol is that very few Americans speak French. So if you want to learn a little of a new language just to speak to Haitians it is obviously more productive to start learning Kreyol than French. It is also easier as Kreyol is an extremely simple and regular language. Any one verb in Spanish has up to 100 different forms. In Kreyol just one. There is also no gender to worry about.

Of course if you are an international traveller like Mr Enternational and plan on visiting francophone countries around the world your time would be better spent on improving your French, as Haitian Kreyol won't help you anywhere else (apart from Martinique and Guadeloupe where I understand Haitian Kreyol speakers can just about get by).

[Frannie]

Nahh. I'm talking your run of the mill street hooker or hustler immigrant in Sosua.

You probably don't have lengthy conversations, then, but do you understand them when they reply in Kreyol? Although I know a lot of French and a little Kreyol, I find that those persons often know Spanish, so that is what I use. When I was in Haiti I found French was not understood by a lot of people and it was better to use a Kreyol interpreter.

[Mr Enternational]

You have probably been dealing with government officials or better educated persons who do speak French, but this is a small minority. I speak French too, but although there is a considerable vocabulary overlap, albeit with some changes to the way words are spelled and pronounced, a knowledge of French does not make it easy to understand spoken Creole or to communicate with uneducated Haitians, mainly because the grammar and the way pronouns and particles are used is so different.

Nahh. I'm talking your run of the mill street hooker or hustler immigrant in Sosua. Enough of someone else's statistical analysis man. Give me some practical knowledge here. Is it that in your experience most of the Haitians you attempt to deal with don't understand when you speak French to them? Because I have not encountered one who did not understand or did not speak pretty damn good. I don't know a lick of Kreyol and wouldn't know it if it came up and slapped me right in the face.

[Frannie]

Day 1.

Arrived via Miami to POP at 2 PM. It took perhaps 20-30 minutes to obtain tourist card ($10. 00) and clear customs. Once outside of customs, be prepared to be bombarded with all types of silly offers, you want a beer, cambio, straight bullshit street vendors praying on the moment of you're new into this country, new experiences and hey can I take advantage of this mark. That's how I felt the moment I set foot on this rock and my opinion has not changed yet.

Get to hotel, Henke was fair and exchanged some Pesso's at 40 per dollar as of today, so much better than airport, which was selling at 34 pesos / dollar.

Nice report, but it is sad that you arrived (and left) with this feeling. Actually many of the people you will encounter at the airport are running legitimate businesses such as selling beer and snacks or changing money or providing taxi services at reasonable prices, though I would not buy souvenirs like T-shirts or packets of coffee from the stalls there to take back home as the prices do exceed norms.

The official looking exchange booth inside the airport is a ridiculous rip-off, agreed, but if you change money outside either at the Banco Reservas branch there, or at the ATM, or with one of the guys on the street, then you will get somewhere close to the going rate.

Today the official rate is 41. 95, so when you exchanged your money with the guy who was "fair", you actually paid a more than 5% surcharge on your entire vacation! You see it isn't the guys on the street who are necessarily ripping you off but the organized businesses like the exchange place inside the airport or your hotelier. Although to be fair, he is just providing a convenient service to save you going out and changing money, albeit one that is very profitable for him.

Just pointing this out because people get paranoid about small perceived scams, but fall for the bigger, more expensive ones.

I lived in the US and was continually bombarded with silly offers, like police and military calling all the time on the phone trying to shake people down for contributions to their "pension fund". Or a mailbox full of silly offers every day.

Just pointing this out because people get paranoid about small perceived scams in the DR, but still fall for the big ones.

[Wrx2005]

Day 1.

Arrived via Miami to POP at 2 PM. It took perhaps 20-30 minutes to obtain tourist card ($10. 00) and clear customs. Once outside of customs, be prepared to be bombarded with all types of silly offers, you want a beer, cambio, straight bullshit street vendors praying on the moment of you're new into this country, new experiences and hey can I take advantage of this mark. That's how I felt the moment I set foot on this rock and my opinion has not changed yet.

Seems you made the best of a short vacation. Passions came through for you. Thanks for your detailed report.

[Wrx2005]

Well I read through these last few pages and thought I'd throw my 2 cents.

A lot of what has been discussed over the last few pages was pretty relevant. Although my time in DR was spent mostly in Sosua I did have a day over in Punta Cana & Boca Chica. Breifly on that note, I saw Punta Cana wasn't as expensive as some have claimed on the forum. I only went with one chica, but she agreed to 1000 pesos and $1 LOL.

Unfortunately for me the performance was related to the price, no GFE, she wanted to be in and out of there. Gave her an extra 300 pesos and another $1 (I had $2 spare I don't use american dollars, so I was offering what I had)

Nice detailed report. Thanks for sharing.

[Frannie]

Why always the emphasis on Kreyol? I speak French and have never had a problem speaking to a Haitian person in just plain everyday French.

You have probably been dealing with government officials or better educated persons who do speak French, but this is a small minority. I speak French too, but although there is a considerable vocabulary overlap, albeit with some changes to the way words are spelled and pronounced, a knowledge of French does not make it easy to understand spoken Creole or to communicate with uneducated Haitians, mainly because the grammar and the way pronouns and particles are used is so different.

Remember that English is also 45% derived from French, but most English speakers don't understand French.

See this article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-14534703

"The percentage of people who speak French fluently is about 5, and 100% speak Creole," says Chris Low.

"It's like a toddler who is forced to start walking with a blindfold'

Says Michel DeGraff Associate Professor of Linguistics at MIT.

"So it's really apartheid through language."

Ms Low is co-founder of an experimental school, the Matenwa Community Learning Center, which has broken with tradition, and conducts all classes in Creole.

Educating children in French may work for the small elite who are fully bilingual, she argues, but not for the masses.

French is used in Haitian schools, but then again only about 1 in 10 graduate high school and 1/3 never go to school at all.

[Mr Enternational]

I can hardly overemphasize the benefits that improving your Spanish can have on your sex life. A little Kreyol may help too, but most of the Kreyol speakers also seem to have a knowledge of Spanish greater than my knowledge of Kreyol. However, a little Kreyol is useful as an icebreaker, if nothing else.

Why always the emphasis on Kreyol? I speak French and have never had a problem speaking to a Haitian person in just plain everyday French.

[DeepMmpactt]

Eddy Carter big Upps! (slang word for thank you) for the great report, Don Antonio I have to shake your hands, you single handedly showed your ass! And you got "the time of day" I'm being African American, would love to tell you what I really "think" of you for lobbing that N-word, but I'll just (imagine what I would say face to face). Old kool! I agree this thread has sank to new lows. Racially and it made it to the screen. Wow!