General Info

[Neurosynth]

Have I split enough hairs?

Actually splitting pubic hairs. And that's difficult because they tend to be curly.

[Member #4359]

It's pertty much like splitting hairs, but as you know: That's what lawyers and politicians like to do best!

So here goes: If a condom-duty is in fact put into a by-law the way it is in Bavaria and the Saarland, then that means that a condom has to be used whenever there's paid sex. Prohibiting AO (= bareback sex) would mean that they would have to prohibit the natural way to have sex, and I think that this is quite frankly IMPOSSIBLE! Because they would have to apply that to everybody else too. Since they can't prohibit people from having sex the natural way, they can't do that to prostitutes (and their customers) either. So they invent a condom-duty and call it "hygiene". Then they try to apply that to prostitution like they apply other hygiene rules to all other businesses where it's applicable.

In effect, regarding prostitution, there is actually no difference between AO prohibition and a condom-duty. But as a matter of law, there is very much a difference between prohibiting something natural and demanding a "hygiene" duty, however far fetched that duty may be. And there must also be a difference regarding punishment: Breaking a law is usually a crime, ignoring a rule based on a by-law can never be more than a misdemeanor.

Have I split enough hairs?

As a matter of practicality, with a condom-duty in effect, what happens when a hobbyist requests BBFS (either in the negotiating phase before going to a room or afterwards in the room)? Does she press the AO alarm button? Report him to the authorities? Nothing? Since BBFS is all I'm interested in, does this mean I will have to stop traveling to Germany?

[SwingerLover]

It's pertty much like splitting hairs, but as you know: That's what lawyers and politicians like to do best!

So here goes: If a condom-duty is in fact put into a by-law the way it is in Bavaria and the Saarland, then that means that a condom has to be used whenever there's paid sex. Prohibiting AO (= bareback sex) would mean that they would have to prohibit the natural way to have sex, and I think that this is quite frankly IMPOSSIBLE! Because they would have to apply that to everybody else too. Since they can't prohibit people from having sex the natural way, they can't do that to prostitutes (and their customers) either. So they invent a condom-duty and call it "hygiene". Then they try to apply that to prostitution like they apply other hygiene rules to all other businesses where it's applicable.

In effect, regarding prostitution, there is actually no difference between AO prohibition and a condom-duty. But as a matter of law, there is very much a difference between prohibiting something natural and demanding a "hygiene" duty, however far fetched that duty may be. And there must also be a difference regarding punishment: Breaking a law is usually a crime, ignoring a rule based on a by-law can never be more than a misdemeanor.

Have I split enough hairs?

[Member #4359]

I am confused as to the difference between "no AO" and "Condom-Duty". Can someone explain this, exactly what the condom-duty provision of the coming law will mean?

[SwingerLover]

This means everything CDU and SPD decide will be the law.

As long as it's not in conflict with other laws and superior rights!

So where is the part about no BBFS and no flat rate clubs?

It's not in there, since this "draft law" is from June 4th 2013 and therefore more than a year older than the "basic points paper" from August 14th 2014 to which I have posted several links already. And the 2013 "draft law" is all that is required by the EU. Everything else is the doing of "Küstenbarbie" and the German feminism industry!

[Neurosynth]

So where is the part about no BBFS and no flat rate clubs?

[Neurosynth]

German Bundestag.

Printed matter.

17. Election Period.

Bill.

By the CDU / CSU and FDP.

Draft Law on Combating [CodeWord908] and.

Monitoring Prostitution Sites.

A. Problem and objective.

The bill is intended both to Directive 2011/36 / EU of the European.

Parliament and of the Council of 5 April 2011 on preventing and combating.

Trafficking in human beings and protecting its victims, and replacing the.

Council Framework Decision 2002/629 / JHA (OJ. L 101,15. 4. 2011, p. 1).

Implement.

Secondly, to be subjected to prostitution sites of industrial law surveillance.

Be. Solution.

To implement the above-mentioned Directive, the following measures are proposed:

- Extension of the penal provision of § 233 of the Penal Code (StGB) on.

The cases of trafficking for the purpose of exploitation of criminal.

Actions and begging; also to human beings for the purpose.

Organ trafficking, which is currently only an aid to offenses under the.

Transplant Act is punishable explicitly in § 233 of the Criminal Code punishable.

Are provided.

- Extension of the qualification of § 233 a StGB facts on the cases.

Where the victim is under 18 years old, and to cases of grossly negligent endangerment of life of the victim; due to the need for synchronous operation these extensions should also apply to the facts of relevant qualifications §§ 232,233 of the Criminal Code.

In order to improve the framework conditions for persons working in prostitution to prostitution sites in the catalog of requiring supervision.

Commercial are taken according to § 38 paragraph 1 of the Commercial Code. In addition, the business enterprise of conditions to protect the general public, customers, the prostitute or the inhabitants of the business property or neighborhood from dangers, significant disadvantages or.

Significant nuisances be subject.

See. Alternatives.

None.

17/13706.

04.06. 2013.

Printed matter 17/13706.

-2-.

German Bundestag - 17th electoral term.

The. Budgetary expenditure without compliance costs.

For federal, state and local governments in expenditure without any performance overhead.

E. compliance costs.

Due to the expansion of existing criminal legislation and the extension of the.

§ 38 Industrial Code can state budgets procedural and enforcement costs incurred, the exact amount is not currently be quantified in detail.

F. Additional costs.

Impact on individual prices and the general price level, particularly.

On the consumer price level, are not to be expected.

German Bundestag - 17th electoral term.

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Printed matter 17/13706.

Draft Law on Combating [CodeWord908] and.

Monitoring Prostitution Sites.

From the.

The Bundestag has passed the following law:

Article 1.

Amending the Penal Code.

The Criminal Code in the version published.

Of 13 November 1998 (BGBl. I S. 3322), the last.

By. Has been changed, is amended as follows:

1. In the table of contents of the statement to § 233, the.

Words "and otherwise exploit" is added.

2. In § 6 Issue 4, after the word "labor".

The words "and otherwise exploit" is inserted.

3. § 232 paragraph 3 shall be amended as follows:

A) In paragraph 1, the words "a child (§ 176.

Para. 1), a person under eighteen years "shall be replaced by the words" ".

B) in paragraph 2 shall be before the word "in" the words.

"At least recklessly" shall be inserted.

4. § 233 is amended as follows:

A) The title, the words "and otherwise exploit" is added.

B) Paragraph 1 shall read as follows:

"(1) Whoever another person taking advantage.

A predicament or the helplessness that connected with their stay in a foreign country.

Is,

1. in slavery, servitude or debt bondage.

2. to engage in or continue begging or employment for the offender.

Or a third party to working conditions, in.

Clearly disproportionate to the working conditions of other workers or workers are having the same or a.

Comparable activity on exercise.

3. to commit a criminal offense threatened actions.

Or.

4. to can be found in an organ.

Brings with imprisonment of six months.

Fined up to ten years. Likewise, anyone who.

A person under twenty-one years to the.

Berlin, June 4, 2013.

Volker Kauder, Gerda Hasselfeldt and fraction.

Rainer Brüderle and fraction.

In Theorem 1 designated acts or in one of the.

Referred to in that situation brings. ".

5. § 233 a paragraph 2 is amended as follows:

A) In paragraph 1, the words "a child (§ 176.

Para. 1), a person under eighteen years "shall be replaced by the words" ".

B) in paragraph 2 shall be before the word "in" the words.

"At least recklessly" shall be inserted.

Article 2.

Amendment of the Commercial Code.

§ 38 paragraph 1 of the Commercial Code, as amended by.

Published on 22 February 1999 (BGBl. I, p 202).

Last amended by Article 3 of the Law of 24 April 2013.

(BGBl. I S. 930) has been amended, is hereby amended as follows:

1st set 1 is amended as follows:

A) The number 6 is a comma added.

B) the following paragraph 7 is added:

'7. Operation of prostitution sites ".

2. The following sentence is added:

"The competent authority may, in the case of the number 7.

The commercial operation of certain conditions depending.

Make the extent of public safety, the.

Is customizable, the prostitute or the inhabitants of the business property or neighborhood from dangers, significant disadvantages or significant nuisances required. ".

Article 3.

Change in the Code of Criminal Procedure.

In § 100 c paragraph 2, point 1 letter g of the Criminal Procedure Code in the version published on.

April 7, 1987 (BGBl. I S. 1074,1319), the most recent.

Has been changed after the word "labor".

The words "and otherwise exploit" is inserted.

Article 4.

Come Into Effect.

This Act shall take effect on the day following its promulgation.

Printed matter 17/13706.

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German Bundestag - 17th electoral term.

Grounds.

A. General.

I. Objectives and main content of the bill.

The bill is intended both to Directive 2011/36 /.

EU of the European Parliament and of the Council of.

5 April 2011 on preventing and combating trafficking in human beings and protecting its victims, and replacing Council Framework Decision 2002/629 / JHA.

Implement (OJ. L 101,15. 4. 2011, p 1) and to meet.

This end, the following legislative measures:

- Extension of the penal provision of § 233 of the Penal Code (StGB) to cases of [CodeWord908].

For the purpose of exploitation of criminal activities and.

Of begging; also to human beings for the purpose of organ removal, which is currently only an aid.

Punishable for offenses under the Act transplantation.

Is explicitly in § 233 a paragraph 1 sentence 1 number 4.

Criminal Code are punishable.

- Extension of the qualifying facts of § 233 a.

Criminal Code to cases in which the victim is under 18 years of age.

, and the cases of grossly negligent endangerment.

The life of the victim. In the interest of consistency.

The rules are to be the same for the corresponding.

Qualifying offenses of §§ 232,233 of the Criminal Code apply.

The design is intentionally limited to the implementation.

Directive 2011/36 / EU of the above.

Measures. The to improve the fight against.

Trafficking in professional circles, particularly on the part of representatives of victims' interests, and of.

Law-enforcement bodies discussed further.

Proposals would have an intensive review and discussion requires that in the targeted because of the time constraint of the implementation of the Directive coming into force of the Law.

Hardly make it appear feasible this legislature.

In the area of the Penal Code is part, notably.

By representatives of law as well as police and public prosecution.

Side, a fundamental revision of offenses.

Of §§ 232,233 and 233 a of the Criminal Code sought. In support of.

Reference is made to the relatively small number of convictions for these rules, which does not correspond to the actual extent of this type of crime. Responsible for this is the text of the provisions as interpreted by case law. Specifically refers to the.

Criticism that the offender, the victim, utilizing.

Certain circumstances (predicament, foreign specific.

Helplessness, violence, threat with a sensitive.

Evil or List) for exploitation (including commence or continue prostitution, other sexual exploitation, labor exploitation) brings. The "This achievement" requires a.

Causal induction of success; the exploitation of a predicament etc. Moreover, that the success straight.

Back to the predicament etc. The causal link between predicament etc. And exploitation must.

Are produced by the actions of the perpetrator (see FIG.

To you. A. Fischer, Penal Code, 60th ed. , § 232 para. 12 to 14).

Not sufficient, it is that the victim in a.

Predicament is, and without that the culprit exploits this fact decides why prostitution.

(continued) For the investigation or to go to an exploitative employment. The police and public prosecution practice criticized that the proof of this.

Circumstances be legally difficult. Was essential in the.

Testimony of the victims and witnesses -zeuginnen, but not often.

Or is very difficult to obtain.

These and other possible suggestions and outside the.

Criminal law to improve the fight against [CodeWord908] and the betterment of his victims are in.

The next term to examine in depth and be to develop legislative proposals in accordance with this test.

Secondly, to improve the conditions for working people in prostitution prostitution sites in the catalog of requiring surveillance industry according to § 38 paragraph 1 of the Industrial Code (GewO).

Be included. Thus an automatic review of the reliability of the trader is connected immediately after reimbursement of business registration or re-registration of trade. The competent authorities.

Are also monitoring the operation of the Auskunftsund lookup rights of § 29 GewO available. In addition, the business enterprise of requirements for.

Protection of the public, customers, the prostitute.

Or the inhabitants of the business property or neighborhood from dangers, significant disadvantages or.

Significant nuisances be subject.

II. Legislative competence.

The legislative competence of the federal follows from Article 74, paragraph 1, point 1 of the Basic Law (Criminal Law.

Judicial proceedings), and Article 74, paragraph 1.

Number 11 of the Basic Law (Business Law).

III. Compatibility with the law of the European.

Union and international treaties.

The draft law is the law of the European.

Union and international treaties to which the Federal Republic of Germany has been completed, and is compatible.

(Article 1) the implementation of a Directive of the European Parliament and of the Council.

IV. Regulatory impacts.

1. Household expenditure without compliance costs.

Household expenditure without compliance costs are for the federal government.

State and local governments can not be expected by the design.

2. compliance costs.

The compliance costs of administration in relation to the.

Regulations for the implementation of Directive 2011/36 / EU is limited to that by extending.

Offenses in the countries involved for.

German Bundestag - 17th electoral term.

-5-.

Law enforcement agencies can develop. The state budgets for the expected additional expenditure can be.

Not specifically quantified, but are not considered to be significant. In addition, in the countries compliance costs arises in the implementation of the Industrial Code § 38.

Competent authorities. This must continue without delay.

After reimbursement of business registration or reregistration a commercial reliability testing of the trader to perform.

Printed matter 17/13706.

On the implementation of Directive 2011/36 / EU required (see.

The reasons given for the number 5 letter b).

At number 4.

(§ 233 StGB).

To point a (headline).

The extension of the scope of § 233 of the Criminal Code.

To other purposes of trafficking (begging.

Committing criminal acts, organ removal) should.

Are also expressed in the title.

3. Additional costs.

The proposed legislative changes do not impact on the economy additional charges. Impact on.

Unit prices, the price level, and in particular the consumer price level, or the environment are not expected.

4. Sustainability aspects.

The bill does not affect any aspects of sustainable development in the interests of national sustainability strategy.

V. Effects of gender equality policy.

Importance.

The regulations are gender neutral content and affect women and men equally.

At point be (paragraph 1).

Takes into account the revised version of § 233 paragraph 1 of the Criminal Code.

The exploitation of begging and committing criminal.

Actions as well as the removal of organs other purposes.

Trafficking in human beings. In addition, the provision unchanged and only in § 233 paragraph 1, sentence 2 of the Criminal Code editorial adjusted to this extension.

Theorem 1.

To Number 1.

§ 233 paragraph 1 sentence 1 number 1 of the Criminal Code corresponds to the first.

Group of the forms of exploitation (slavery, servitude or debt bondage) of the previous § 233.

Paragraph 1 sentence 1 of the Criminal Code (trafficking in human beings for the purpose of.

Exploitation of the labor force).

At number 2.

Be. Special Section.

Article 1.

(Amendment of the Criminal Code -.

Penal Code).

To Number 1.

(Table of Contents).

Due to the change in the heading of § 233 StGB there is a change of the TOC.

At number 2.

(§ 6, paragraph 4 of the Criminal Code).

It is a consequence of the amendment of the.

Heading of § 233 of the Criminal Code.

Point 3.

(§ 232, paragraph 3 of the Criminal Code).

To point a (number 1).

By raising the age of consent in the qualifying elements of § 232, paragraph 3, paragraph 1 of the Criminal Code.

Is the constant velocity to the provisions of § 233 a paragraph 2.

Number 1 SCC-E produced. Here it is to implement.

Directive 2011/36 / EU necessary, the age limit.

To increase from 14 to 18 years (cf. The justification to number 5 letter a).

At point be (number 2).

With the expansion of the qualification of the facts.

§ 232, paragraph 3, paragraph 2 of the Criminal Code, which now also the variant that the offender, the victim "at least recklessly" in the.

Risk of death brings detected, the synchronization is to.

Provision of § 233 a, paragraph 2, point 2 of the Criminal Code-E produced. Here is the extension of the qualifying facts.

§ 233 paragraph 1 sentence 1 number 2 of the Criminal Code corresponds to the second group of the forms of exploitation (exploitative working conditions) of the previous § 233 paragraph 1 sentence 1.

Criminal Code. In addition, here in Directive 2011/36 / EU.

Said the purpose of exploitation of begging.

Provided (Article 2, paragraph 3) a criminal offense. In this respect, serves.

This revision of the implementation of the Directive required.

Point 3.

By § 233 paragraph 1 sentence 1 number 3 of the Criminal Code is in the.

Asked the Directive shall end the exploitation of criminal offenses (Article 2, paragraph 3) a criminal offense.

The term "exploitation of criminal activities" is to be understood as exploitation of a person to commit, inter alia, pickpocketing, shoplifting, drug trafficking.

And similar acts are understood to be under.

Punishment and are used in particular for financial gain.

At number 4.

In § 233 paragraph 1 sentence 1 number 4 of the Criminal Code, in view.

Article 2, paragraph 3 of the Directive trafficking.

For the purpose of organ removal explicitly criminalized.

Found; yet such acts were punishable only as aid to offenses under the Act transplantation.

Theorem 2.

§ 233 paragraph 1 sentence 2 StGB same content as the current regime, but bears editorial enlargement.

Of § 233 paragraph 1 sentence 1 of the Criminal Code on the begging, the perpetration.

Printed matter 17/13706.

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Increase of criminal acts and statements organ removal.

At number 5.

(§ 233 a paragraph 2 of the Criminal Code).

To point a (number 1).

In § 233 a, paragraph 2, point 1 of the Criminal Code, the age of consent is raised from 14 to 18 years. This is the requirements of Article 4, paragraph 2 letter a in conjunction.

Article 2, paragraph 6 of Directive 2011/36 / EU account.

Which declares that for offenses relating to the.

[CodeWord908] a maximum term of imprisonment of ten years must be at least threatened unless the.

Victims of crime a person under 18 years of age. In the.

Article 2, paragraph 1 of Directive 2011/36 / EU factual facts described (recruitment, transportation, transfer, harboring or receipt of persons) corresponds to § 233 a StGB (promotion of [CodeWord908]), the.

In the basic offense with imprisonment of three months.

Is threatened up to five years. For the implementation of the Directive.

Must thus the term of imprisonment of six months to.

Ten years threatened qualification elements of § 233 a.

Paragraph 2, point 1 of the Criminal Code applicable to the case.

Be that the victim is indeed a person under 18 years of age.

At point be (number 2).

In § 233 a, paragraph 2, point 2 of the Criminal Code and the least reckless endangerment of life of the victim is under the in.

Paragraph 2 shall set increased penalties. In Order To.

Is the requirements of Article 4, paragraph 2 letter see.

Directive worn 2011/36 / EU bill that increased penalties for "gross negligence" life hazard.

Calls. This is in § 233 a, paragraph 2, point 2 of the Criminal Code so far.

Not the case, since it is generally considered not a so-called performance-qualified offense.

Is in accordance with § 18 of the Criminal Code and thus intent with respect to the occurring threats to human life is required.

(see, only fishermen, the Criminal Code, 59th ed. , § 232 para. 23).

To Article 2.

(Amendment of the Commercial Code -.

Industrial Code).

§ 38 Industrial Code is used for general, special occasion independent verification of the reliability of traders in.

Certain police trade-sensitive sectors. § 38.

Industrial Code contains an exhaustive list requiring monitoring services, for which the competent authority immediately after reimbursement of business registration or.

Commercial re-registration of a review of the reliability.

Performs. For this purpose, the trader has in accordance with § 38.

Paragraph 1, sentence 2 Trade Regulation Act, a certificate and information from the Central Trade Register for submission to the.

To apply for authority.

German Bundestag - 17th electoral term.

Furthermore, the competent authority in accordance with § 29 has.

Paragraph 1, point 3 GewO to monitor in § 38.

Commercial Industrial Code referred to in paragraph 1 to enter comprehensive trade law control options such information and lookup rights, including the power to the business premises of the person concerned for the purpose of monitoring and to carry out inspections and checks (§ 29 paragraph 2 Industrial Code). The list in § 38.

Paragraph 1 GewO listed requiring monitoring.

Industry should be expanded to include the operation of prostitution sites. Operation of prostitution sites is from.

Forensic point of view sensitive. For the prevention of criminal side effects such as [CodeWord908], forced prostitution and sexual exploitation is a preventive.

Reliability testing of the trader makes sense.

And necessary.

As prostitution site are especially brothels.

A *****house, brothel-like enterprises and other enterprises with.

To look with regard to commercial sexual services, the visible to the outside as prostitution sites.

Are and are perceived as such. Purely private.

Premises thus being excluded because they a.

Economic regulatory review are not accessible. This also applies to renting an apartment.

For the purpose of the exercise of commercial prostitution.

May be due to the newly inserted § 38 paragraph 1 sentence 4.

The competent authority shall make the commercial operation of certain conditions dependent. A similar instruments are in the right of assembly. These conditions.

May be necessary to protect the public, customers, prostitutes or the inhabitants of the business property or neighborhood ago hazards, significant disadvantages or serious nuisance to.

Protect.

To Article 3.

(Amendment of Criminal Procedure -.

Code of Criminal Procedure).

It is a consequence of the amendment of the.

Heading and the extension of the scope.

Of § 233 of the Criminal Code, making the list of offenses § 100 c.

Paragraph 2, Code of Criminal Procedure, the specific cases of [CodeWord908].

(the most serious offenses) comprises an occasion as deeds for the acoustic monitoring of living space, only in the.

Same scale is expanded as the revised § 233.

Criminal Code.

Article 4.

(Come Into Effect).

Article 4 deals with the entry into force of the law.

Production: H. Heenemann GmbH & Co. , letterpress and offset printing, Bessemer Road 83-91,12103 Berlin www.heenemann-druck.de.

Distribution: Federal Verlagsgesellschaft mbH, Postfach 10 05 34,50445 Cologne, phone (02 21) 97 66 83 40, Fax (02 21) 97 66 83 44 www.betrifft-gesetze.de.

ISSN 0722-8333.

[Willi69]

That's the problem right there: "will be"? No law has been passed yet.

At the moment the situation in Germany is as follows:

The two largest parties in Germany (CDU and SPD) form a grand coalition ("GROKO") and have an absolute majority in the "Bundestag". The other parties together do not have a veto-way. The supervisory authority "Bundesrat" is also dominated by CDU and SPD. This means everything CDU and SPD decide will be the law.

[Mr Styles]

Hi,

My German is not good enough to translate it, but here are the details.

Maybe someone can go through it.

[SwingerLover]

Not only AO, but also flatrate will be forbidden in Germany soon:

That's the problem right there: "will be"? No law has been passed yet, what is "supposed" to be regulated changes every half year, but even you write already about "will be". Even Bild writes "soll", meaning "supposed to be", you toss around the term "will be" already, and MC Sex in Hamm implements a condom-duty at their own place out of their own volition from next month on without any law requiring them to do so. What's with that?

[Maxime]

Not only AO, but also flatrate will be forbidden in Germany soon: http://www.bild.de/politik/inland/pr...0342.bild.html.

(this means also partytreffs, workaround will be to ask 5 euro per session or so).

[SwingerLover]

3 - People speak English.

Not sure about the English language skills these days, but otherways: http://treff-188.de/.
Most recent report about it: http://www.internationalsexguide.inf...=1#post1677672

[NF4591]

Hi. I'm an American who has experience with FKK clubs, and I will be visiting Frankfurt soon. The Partyreff scene seems fun, so I've read this forum but still not sure which Partyreff is the best for me to try. I am looking for a Partyreff that meets my preferences:

1 - in or near Frankfurt.

2 - no problems for minorities (I am a minority in the US).

3 - People speak English.

4 - I want BBBJ, ball licking, ass licking, and covered sex and anal.

5 (preferred) - Wet sauna / steam room.

6 (preferred) - Hookah / shisha available.

7 (preferred) - beer included.

Are there any Partyreff clubs to recommend, that I would like from the above preferences? #1,2,3 are needed, and #4,5,6,7 are nice to have.

[Wanking]

How would you rank PT Xanten compared with those mentioned here?

I think its good as well.

[Teomir]

LOL.

Some of the better run flatrate covered sex clubs seem to be -

http://www.totalclub-osnabrueck.com

http://www.pauschalclub-69.de/page/en

http://www.pauschalclub.de - 3 clubs

How would you rank PT Xanten compared with those mentioned here?