Makati

[Member #4698]

It is highly likely that the whole area comprising Burgos, Durban, Polaris, Jupiter streets and Kalayaan and Northern Makati Avenue will change like King's Cross has changed in Sydney. The opening of Century City is the thin edge of the wedge. A change in Makati local government administration with the removal of a long-standing dynasty might also hasten the process. If you like agogo bars, get in quickly before it all closes down.

Sounds like the gentrification that's going in Geylang, Singapore; a real foodie center and a former P4P hot spot. I hear SW numbers have become sparse this past year on the various Lorangs where the girls used to hang out in droves. Its too bad. I used to really like having a session and afterwards a great meal.

I've been told, Burgos has become one of the "hot" restaurant areas of Makati. I eat frequently at a French Bistro in the area. It's called Cafe Curieux, and serves very good, and quite authentic bistro food. Most of the customers are French, several from the French Embassy, and I'm pretty sure, having spoken to several of them, that they're there strictly for the food and the dining experience.
GE.

I will give Cafe Curieux a try. Burgos as a foodie spot? I had no idea. My favorite bar girl likes the Filling Station which I totally detest and will not go to anymore. I either insist on Ziggurat, or I take her to Glorietta Mall for some franchise restaurant food, or its room service at the Fairmont. She does not like going to the GreenBelt malls. She says she does not want to be seen in that place with all the FL's around. You can't make this stuff up. LOL. BTW, she asks me all the time to take pics of her in the Fairmont Lobby. I guess its to show her friends.

I like Makati. I hope Burgos Street never dies.

[GoodEnough]

This might seem off topic but it is in keeping with the theorizing around the future of Burgos Street.
It is highly likely that the whole area comprising Burgos, Durban, Polaris, Jupiter streets and Kalayaan and Northern Makati Avenue will change like King's Cross has changed in Sydney. The opening of Century City is the thin edge of the wedge. A change in Makati local government administration with the removal of a long-standing dynasty might also hasten the process. If you like agogo bars, get in quickly before it all closes down.

I think that RK is onto something here. Recently, or so I've been told, Burgos has become one of the "hot" restaurant areas of Makati. As soon as the area begins to attract middle to upper class Filipino couples in search of a good dining experience, the presence of the seedy bars may begin to decline. I eat frequently at a French Bistro in the area. It's called Cafe Curieux, and serves very good, and quite authentic bistro food. Most of the customers are French, several from the French Embassy, and I'm pretty sure, having spoken to several of them, that they're there strictly for the food and the dining experience. Something similar to RK's reference to the King's Cross transformation, or for that matter the total transformation of Times Square in New York, may well be imminent.

GE.

[Red Kilt]

The way I saw Burgos had a very little foot traffic compare to before. I remember sitting one of the restaurants and watching the public 6-7 years ago and the place was a zoo. My last visit, hardly anyone was walking around. Maybe Burgos had it's time and customers moved on to better locations.

This might seem off topic but it is in keeping with the theorizing around the future of Burgos Street.

I have just returned from a visit back to Australia for 8 nights and I stayed in King's Cross, Sydney as usual in order to be near the focus of my work. Twenty (20) years ago KC (or "the Cross") was a zoo (see Mbsl's comment). Everybody went to the Cross later at night after dining elsewhere to see the street filled with crazies, druggies, prosties, live shows with drag queens, bouncers on every door and spruikers trying to get you inside one of the dens (always reminded me of the former Patpong).

During the past decade I have noticed a dramatic decline in the decadence of the area, and the number of girlie bars and drinking places has shrunk considerably. On this latest trip I was very surprised to notice that the whole neighborhood has changed. Very few bars remain along Darlinghurst Road (compared to previously) and more and more up-scale restaurants are opened along the side-streets and in the various alley ways (previously filled with druggies and definitely a "no-go" zone for people like me). Several hotels have been converted into plush apartments, and I learned that my hotel (4-star and very comfortable) had also been sold and was soon to close for renovation as apartments.

Various reasons were given, but it is clear that various jurisdictions / councils (local KC, City of Sydney, NSW Government) are behind the move to close down the seedy side and transform the Cross into something absolutely unrecognisable from 20 plus years ago. King's Cross is a mere 30 minute walk to Central Sydney city in exactly the same way that Burgos is a similar walk from the business center of Makati (Greenbelt / Glorietta / Ayala Ave banking and finance area).

It is highly likely that the whole area comprising Burgos, Durban, Polaris, Jupiter streets and Kalayaan and Northern Makati Avenue will change like King's Cross has changed in Sydney. The opening of Century City is the thin edge of the wedge. A change in Makati local government administration with the removal of a long-standing dynasty might also hasten the process. If you like agogo bars, get in quickly before it all closes down.

[GoodEnough]

As the long timers here will know, I've been in the Philippines for a few years now, and I've never been able to understand the Burgos Street model. Most of the bars are situated in rental space in the highest priced area of the entire country, and simple logic causes me to question how bar owners can cover what must be huge overheads. A few months ago I was discussing with a recent acquaintance who has been here longer than I. He said (and I've no way of verifying this) that in most cases the bars are merely front to launder money derived from more profitable, cash-generating and likely illegal operations. Again, I've got no idea if this is true, but it does make some kind of sense.

GE.

[Pcpc1688]

Outdoors is difficult as hard to find places where there arent any people, given the population of Manila. Car parks would be one option. Back in the day when I lived there would often have "in car service " so to speak. But outdoors. Hmm theres a few parks in Salcedo village that could work, but again, theres people everywhere. Not a lot of cameras though. Depends if you want day time or night time. After 12 the streets get a lot quieter. Recall meeting a girl in Makati one night at about midnight and as agreed before, she had no panties so on the walk to my hotel I had my finger neatly inserted in her shorts. No one saw or maybe no one cared. .

I would try the handicapped bathroom in a major hotel, mall, or anywhere else that has this or a Family bathroom. Funny sounds may stir up a crowd outside though ha.

PC out.

[FreebieFan]

As an aside I will will trying to tick off outdoor BJ experience in Makati. I've done it in Australia, Hkg and Bkk so far although I got cold feet last time I was going to try in Cebu. Risk factor seemed too high.

So if you have any suggested locations that would be great.

Outdoors is difficult as hard to find places where there arent any people, given the population of Manila. Car parks would be one option. Back in the day when I lived there would often have "in car service " so to speak. But outdoors. Hmm theres a few parks in Salcedo village that could work, but again, theres people everywhere. Not a lot of cameras though. Depends if you want day time or night time. After 12 the streets get a lot quieter. Recall meeting a girl in Makati one night at about midnight and as agreed before, she had no panties so on the walk to my hotel I had my finger neatly inserted in her shorts. No one saw or maybe no one cared. .

[Asian Lover Oz]

Hi guys, will be arriving tomorrow for a long weekend in Makati armed with a list of 15 names from DIA and FC.

My criteria is strictly 18 or 19 only and no kids, so it's been tough collecting the names and numbers as I'm a fussy bugger and reject any that even seem slightly porky looking.

I haven't exactly pre qualified them all as being up for an encounter, so I reckon around a 10% hit rate of scoring a gem.

So on my 4 day trip, I think there will be only be 1-2 real successes.

Lets revisit next week and see how accurate that is.

Hats off to Skogis, no idea how you can schedule 3 or 4 in a day with Manila traffic and girls flakiness. Let alone manage to pop out so frequently.

As an aside I will will trying to tick off outdoor BJ experience in Makati. I've done it in Australia, Hkg and Bkk so far although I got cold feet last time I was going to try in Cebu. Risk factor seemed too high.

So if you have any suggested locations that would be great.

[Ms Account]

Although I question your conclusion that the market will adjust to real supply and demand conditions thus allowing prices to drop, this is still a great field report on Burgos ST. Bars. I wish there were more reports like this in the forum..

Thanks for the feedback. Not that I claim to understand a bar's business model, but I think the bars have been dependent on big spenders. On a visit to Stardust, a favourite of mine was tied up with a regular Japanese customer who must have spent 20-30 K on drinks and then barfined 5-6 girls to go clubbing and didn't go home with any girl. You can't help but feel a cheap Charlie when you see the amount some people dump on LD's at these bars (both Asians and westerners). Two trips back I just tried the KTV at Airforce One (not the fish bowl). Total waste of money but the fairly average looking girl there told me she was making 40000 per month mainly from Koreans paying 8000 for in house barfine (in another Cebu report I reported the same feedback from a KTV girl in Cebu). My deflation proposal is based upon a negative economic outlook (GFC2) and China won't bail out Asia this time around. I think the Japanese / Korean big spenders will have their wings clipped.

I question the prediction because I know of no P4P destination in Asia where prices have been allowed to adjust to market conditions and declined in the last 40 years. .

Your response is a very elegant description of economics. But we also have not had global deflation since the 1930's. Burgos and the Philippines P4 P scene in general (in particular Cebu) will be hit hard by what is about to happen economically globally with Asia suffering particularly badly. Lets see. My wager is if I walked into the Lucky Charm bar on the 1st July 2016, their prices will be LD=300 BF=3000 or less (as a stepping stone on their way back to their original price of 200/2000).

[Member #4698]

This FR is recent experiences on Burgos and understanding of recent prices on Burgos.

The recent addition of Kojax / HotSpot / Plan be (all under same set of owners opened 2013?) has introduced new price competitiveness on Burgos. Barfine (BF) = 2600 and ladies drink (LD) = 300. Kojax, I think the layout (easy to see most girls), the enthusiasm of the dancing (choreographed rather than lazy shuffling at most bars) and the quality of the girls combined with reasonable prices makes Kojax my preferred bar on Burgos and is 1st stop for the night. Hot Spot and Plan B don't have as good a layout but at reasonable prices also have reasonable quality girls.

Stardust has always been a favourite of mine. The show is interesting to watch and prices are quite reasonable (BF=2500 LD=300). Layout is quite good and easy to see girls although generally I would say less lookers in Stardust than Kojax.

Jools is a strange place. I always thought it was no BF but recently girls are telling me some will BF for 3500 with LD=350. The show is very high quality here but in general the line up girls I would put lower quality looks than other bars. Generally I will always visit once each trip to watch the show.

Girls in Bottoms claim it is the most upmarket bar on Burgos. Always busy and with nearly topless uniform and quite good looking girls, I would not dispute the most upmarket bar on Burgos claim. Expensive BF=3900 and LD=390. Although it is a big bar, I don't think it is layed out very well and secondly the enthusiasm of the dancing is poor.

I have been to many of the other bars. Shampoo, Tickles, High Heels, Coyote, Rogues but not enough to comment or remember the pricing.

In summary, for some reason I am happier with the quality of the girls I find on Burgos now compared back to 2007-2009. But I propose Burgos prices will start falling over the next six months. The trend is there (pioneered by Kojax / Hotspot / PlanB) and the GFC2 over the next year will hit Burgos hard. I just hope most can stay open. The feedback from girls in a lot of the smaller bars (and one owner I talked to) was that customer traffic has dropped. Maybe Burgos is a better predictor of the global economy than most economic statistics.

Although I question your conclusion that the market will adjust to real supply and demand conditions thus allowing prices to drop, this is still a great field report on Burgos ST. Bars. I wish there were more reports like this in the forum. I question the prediction because I know of no P4P destination in Asia where prices have been allowed to adjust to market conditions and declined in the last 40 years. Prices only go up in the inelastic P4P world and bars owners seem to always make the unfortunate irrational financial decision to go out of business rather than lower their prices in order to increase traffic. As for the girls; they almost always try to raise their price to compensate for slack demand, the exact opposite of rational economic behavior. So I think there is little chance of us seeing lower prices in Burgos Bars. What I do see is bar girls reaching out to customers directly, offering to bypass the barfine system once a relationship has been established. In other words I see the development of a grey market to work around the unrealistically high fixed barfine pricing structure.

Anyway, great report MsAccount! My favorite bars are Bottoms and Plan B. Both bars have some great girls. The Bottoms girls may not be that energetic onstage, but just ask one over for a drink and she will show you a very very good time, in the bar if you know what I mean. Stardust is a distant 3rd favorite of mine. Stardust has some friendly girls, but whenever I go there I end up wanting one or two of the very sexy and fit professional dancers which makes it hard for me to settle on a friendly regular bar girl.

Rogues is another all time favorite bar. It is a good place to relax and have a beer. The girls are definitely not as hot as the Bottoms or Plan B girls, but they are very friendly and this is the best priced bar on the street with Barfines set at 1600 p. Whenever I go there I usually let some girl seduce me. LOL.

I have not been to Kojax or HotSpot yet. That's because the last time I was in Makati I spent 4 nights in a row with my favorite Plan B girl and then after I got a little tired of her I spent a couple of nights with my new favorite / replacement Bottoms girl. I think of her as my Bottoms replacement girl because she stood in for my favorite Makati bar girl of 2014 who was on a trip with her "international boyfriend" when I arrived in Makati in April 2015. My replacement Bottoms girl did just fine and I like her a lot. It is going to be interesting when I return to Bottoms shortly and both girls are in the Bar. I look forward to checking out Kojax and HotSpot too on my next visit if I can free myself from these 3 delectable girls.

[Mbsl65]

Oil is down, commodities are down and now also stock markets are down. Burgos street prices should be next.

Background. I used to frequent Burgos in the 2007-2009 time frame. I don't remember the prices from back then. But I distinctly remembering that I felt the quality wasn't worth the price and sort of lost interest. In recent times (2014 to now) I have been visiting Philippines more regularly and generally spend 2-3 days on Burgos each trip. This FR is recent experiences on Burgos and understanding of recent prices on Burgos.

Burgos hard. I just hope most can stay open. The feedback from girls in a lot of the smaller bars (and one owner I talked to) was that customer traffic has dropped. Maybe Burgos is a better predictor of the global economy than most economic statistics.

The way I saw Burgos had a very little foot traffic compare to before. I remember sitting one of the restaurants and watching the public 6-7 years ago and the place was a zoo. My last visit, hardly anyone was walking around. Maybe Burgos had it's time and customers moved on to better locations.

[Simmer]

Ahh, last time I had a beer there it was 750 pisos for a 0,5 l. Not to bad, hehe That beeing said I never complain about alcohol prices around the world as I have not found any as expensive as where I come from. I admit its crazy but the gvmnt takes high taxes especially on alcohol and tobacco (the latter I highly agree with as I don't smoke, hehe).

£10.45, sounds about right given I think we were paying about £7-8 in restaurants away from the main tourist areas. On the one hand my employer paid for our trips; on the other hand that only included alcohol that came with a meal, not for the ones afterwards! Our trips to Norway were fairly sober events. Fortunately I don't smoke!

(Sorry everybody, way off topic. I'll stop reminiscing now).

[Member #4387]

And a very nice airport at that. I never bought a beer there but given alcohol prices in Norway, and that airports charge way more for pretty much anything, I would imagine I'd need a second mortgage to buy a beer in Oslo airport!

Ahh, last time I had a beer there it was 750 pisos for a 0,5 l. Not to bad, hehe That beeing said I never complain about alcohol prices around the world as I have not found any as expensive as where I come from. I admit its crazy but the gvmnt takes high taxes especially on alcohol and tobacco (the latter I highly agree with as I don't smoke, hehe).

[Simmer]

Remember our main airport, OSL, had well above 25 million passengers

And a very nice airport at that. I never bought a beer there but given alcohol prices in Norway, and that airports charge way more for pretty much anything, I would imagine I'd need a second mortgage to buy a beer in Oslo airport!

[OneIpole]

Has anyone been here yet? I'm hearing its like TIME. Opens at 10 pm and closes at 8 or 9 am.

[Member #4387]

Editorial notes: In my last two trips to Metro Manila, I've met or heard of four Norwegian guys spreading their Norwegian guy love among the Pinays. Isn't the population of Norway tiny and very far away? Don't the lovely ladies in Norway notice how many of the guys are missing?

Hehe, well are we a tiny country and a small population but to the crowd out there we are more than 10 living in Norway. I think we have just hit the 5 million mark and we are a travelling people. I think I read somewhere that norwegians taking out overall population into consideration is the people who most frequent travel by air. Since we have airports travelling into Manila sometimes takes me far less time than for people living in US (depends on where in US ofcourse). We have no direct flights though but a swift change in BKK, DOH or DXB makes MNL rather easy. Remember our main airport, OSL, had well above 25 million passengers and are bigger than ARN (main airport in Sweden though they have roughly double our population). Not bad for 5 million peoples.