London

[Jojosun]

But for in-call visit to prossies, in my opinion London is still very competitive. If you want to venture (take a risk of getting a bad punt) you could easily find the WGs with the same quality that you will find in FKK in Germany with relatively almost the same rate. It has been reported in many positive reviews in another forum where you could find a WGs with 40 - 50 half hourly rate.

Originally Posted by Dreams View Original Post.

I have been living here since 30+ years, and explored the world as well. Banged more than 1000 women in more than 30 countries. London remains for those who know one of the best places for mongering, with incredible variable choice. Of course, no comparison with German FKKs or Bangkok, but in the Western world far better than Paris, Rome, let alone all Nordic cities and the US.

In London: Soho walk-ups for 20 , some gems to be found there; anything you fancy on adultwork (want a pregnant Asian girl?: you'll find her); parties (All you can f. In 2 hours); Top level escorts; Cheap HJs in Chinese backrooms; High level sophisticated MPs etc. Cheap strip clubs with gorgeous girls spreading it (FYEO), expensive lap dance clubs for rich corporate people etc.

Where else in the West?

"Originally Posted by Myrrh View Original Post.

Well, right on cue. I knew it would not take long for one or two of them to be smoked out. ".

LOL. That makes it (4) so far and counting. http://www.smittenbybritain.com/why-we-love-london/.

[Jojosun]

Hi PFI,

You got from me the list for the massage parlors in London, But you told us few weeks ago, not in the center. So you didn't try them.

If you are after incall parlors , Manchester , then you need to read my previous posts on the 2 that I use which are in central London.

Open from 11 am to 8 pm. . Their sites are in my posts. This week they have a total of 6 /7 girls working each day.

Their names & photos are clearly shown.

I was the one who posted 4 You the links 4 Milton Keynes incalls and told you about about Milton Keynes, Then you came back and claimed you found them doing google search. Again read your previous post.

None of the Brothels that I know of and use in (Central London) have open door policy where any (Tom, Dick, Abdul monger) can just walk in. You need to phone first make a booking with the girl of your choice. And very good job too.

[PayForIt]

Well, right on cue. I knew it would not take long for one or two of them to be smoked out.

I don't care if I lose the debate about whether London is a decent mongering city or not as long as there even one useful tit bit of information about a good place to go in London.
So I go round in circles occasionally finding references to places far out in the East End of London where there are no reviews of whether the girls there are any good.

Perhaps the best way to find good sex in London would be to read reviews of escorts before visiting one. However the reviews may be out of date as the girl may have moved on and one guy's idea of attractiveness may not be another's.

The ideal way for me is to visit a large place with 6 or more girls working there. Hopefully there would be reviews of the girls on line in terms of what service they provide. You could look out for a particular girl when you visit or phone in advance to ask if she is working that day. You could also freely converse with the girl to see whether you got on with her and find out for certain exactly what she would do that day. For example some girls may do CIM but only at their discretion. You would then have a fair chance of ending up with a girl that you liked who would do what you want.

The above is what happens when I visit cities in many other countries in the world like Thailand, Germany, Spain, and so on. Pretty much everywhere except London. Makes it difficult to get the sex that you are looking for.

Great to see someone again just being really honest about this. For JoJo and the other Londoners. This isn't an attack on London as a city! I've said. I was born here, love the city and its sights, but mongering in London is really poor compared to other UK cities and around the world as Myrrh says. Myrrh. We visit the same places. If you look at my posts 99% of them are Germany and Spain! Reading reviews is sadly not the answer. Having had some really disappointing girls turn up from escort agencies I have left negative reviews. I have NEVER had one published despite using temperate language, being polite but simply saying the girl didn't look like the one in the photo. They will not post such reviews. So the reviews are completely misleading. That is escort sites. Reviews on AW maybe accurate but I'm with Myrrh on his principle that to enter an establishment to be able to select a girl just doesn't exist in CENTRAL London. I don't mean in some grotty, dirty walk up MP in Chinatown where you have a massage in a damp room and the girl cannot wait to start feeling you up. Not my idea of a sexy encounter at all. Walk ups can be very embarrassing. Walking into a "models" flat to be confronted by an overly sized middle aged woman smoking and having to say you don't fancy brunettes (to escape) is not my idea of good mongering. That takes care of Soho! So what's left? In Central London? Nothing other than what were Lady M parties (I really don't want to be having sex with 10 other guys watching - it might do it for some but not me). London is about escorts and AW girls only. Like it or not, great city though it is, for REGULAR mongering of the type enjoyed WORLDWIDE (and in the UK outside of London) Central London is NOT a good mongering destination. No matter how many times people come on here and attempt to defend it: for the benefit of those looking at this thread and considering London as a sex trip destination: read my posts; read Myrrh's posts and know this: we are not London-biased, we are just telling the truth. Mongering in London has to be done blind and you might get lucky but you may well not. I like to see before I buy. This is not possible really in London other than in the very awkward model flats as i have mentioned. So if you are a visitor from overseas, come for the sights and leave mongering to other parts of the UK or other countries. Unless you are happy just to take a chance on what you get. And if JoJo and others think that equates to good mongering, I feel sorry for you and you should broaden your experiences elsewhere whereupon you will see that options in other parts of the UK and outside of it are very much better than in London.

[Myrrh]

Whenever London's status as a mongering centre is attacked on this forum there are always staunch proponents who point out that you can always go on to AW or any of the other internet equivalents and within a few mouse clicks have access to more women of different nationalities than pretty much any other city in the world. Then once you have satisfied your lust then you will find that London is a cosmopolitan city with lots more things to do compared to other cities.

Well, right on cue. I knew it would not take long for one or two of them to be smoked out.

Bang on about the choice and variety in London. Just checked adultwork and it shows in London there are 4308 escorts to choose from
There are brothels as you know that don't advertise on adultwork but have their own sites complete with schedules of girls (4 at one and 3 at another) in central London.
Posted on them here many times before.
For a walk in sex without booking then its about a 20 minutes on the tube to an East End Sauna with a choice of girls open until 6 am. Anyone interested RTFF here, posted on it with the link before.

When mongering is not on the schedule, then a trip this time of the the year is recommended to Winter Wonderland at Hyde Park complete with a Bavarian Village without the FKK clubs and its free entry.
http://www.hydeparkwinterwonderland.com/ .

I don't care if I lose the debate about whether London is a decent mongering city or not as long as there even one useful tit bit of information about a good place to go in London.

However the response seem to be look on google or look through the posts where you will find plenty of links to places. So I go round in circles occasionally finding references to places far out in the East End of London where there are no reviews of whether the girls there are any good.

Before the advent of the internet there used to be a sauna and massage parlour in many suburban areas of London. You would have to pay an entrance fee and then pay for a massage and then negotiate with the girl for something extra when you are in the room. You could end up paying a lot only to find that the girl does not do the 'extras' that you would like or even do any extras at all. Also, having paid to enter you most likely will find that the women are middle aged frumps or otherwise unattractive. But too late, you have already paid.

Besides these places are pretty grotty, poky and dingy and part of a dying industry. Very few of them exist and are in constant threat of being closed down. It just takes one or two guys to complain to the council or the police that they paid for a straight massage at a place advertising as a massage parlour but the girl instead tried to proposition him into having sex and he was offended.

I couldn't find any reviews of girls services on line because these places are not supposed to be offering sex. So in the end you are paying for something but just don't know what you will be getting. With the internet you don't need to do this anymore.

Perhaps the best way to find good sex in London would be to read reviews of escorts before visiting one. However the reviews may be out of date as the girl may have moved on and one guy's idea of attractiveness may not be another's.

The ideal way for me is to visit a large place with 6 or more girls working there. Hopefully there would be reviews of the girls on line in terms of what service they provide. You could look out for a particular girl when you visit or phone in advance to ask if she is working that day. You could also freely converse with the girl to see whether you got on with her and find out for certain exactly what she would do that day. For example some girls may do CIM but only at their discretion. You would then have a fair chance of ending up with a girl that you liked who would do what you want.

The above is what happens when I visit cities in many other countries in the world like Thailand, Germany, Spain, and so on. Pretty much everywhere except London. In many other countries prostitution is illegal but the police rarely take any action unless there are other problems like too young girls, drug dealing or other crime. Whereas in London the police do strictly enforce the law which is that there should be no more than two prostitutes working from the same premises. If there are more than that working at an establishment then that place needs to be genuinely offering a legitimate service like massage and sex is only available unofficially, discreetly and secretly. Makes it difficult to get the sex that you are looking for.

[PayForIt]

If you are into BBBJ and DATY, then the new proposed law in Germany (Condom Duty) re these activities will hit the FKK clubs if it gets passed. In either case its not your loss.

I read exciting comments re a Uk style of FKK club in the North of the UK, got me excited then I read.

LOL it made chuckle

The proposed new law in Germany is not due to come into effect until 2018 - and it has been debated for several years but never happened. In any event it is simply not capable of being enforced. Can you really imagine the police being able to enter a club, and get as far as the rooms to catch someone in the act without anyone being warned? It is making the Germans laugh on the german forums.

I've spoken to several people about Winstons but got mixed reports. Had two PMs about it which were positive. I've not tried it. Truth is it is too risky. The police have raided it before now and have arrested customers. Seems like police in Yorkshire are a lot more active on prostitution than they are in Lancashire. Maybe the police in Yorkshire are from the same breed as those in the Met!!

The other comments re London mongering. As stated. To each their own. Guys happy with AW, escort sites with very dodgy pictures, photoshopping, Asian MPs, swingers parties and walkups will like London a lot. Those many thousands of guys who like to walk into a venue, see several girls and make a selection (as happens in nearly every other city in the UK) will find London very boring indeed (for mongering). As one commentator (Myrrh) said recently. It is very amusing how fiercely some members of this forum seem to want to protect the reputation of London as a serious mongering destination. I have been to London every week for the past 12 years apart from holidays and remain firmly of the view that it is hopeless for mongering. Others can and may disagree. But I'm entitled to my view, and it is based on a lot of (poor) experiences. It is just SO unreliable. You are as well going into a public phone box and picking up one of the cards advertising girls. If you are deluded enough to think that the girl you'll meet is the one on that advertising card then you won't mind booking a girl off AW or from an escort site and seeing her advertised as stunning size 6 only to find when she turns up that she is sized 12 and not stunning at all. You can get lucky. And you can get very unlucky.

The best way to ensure you are going to have sex with a truly stunning girl in London, is to go to a lap dancing bar, have several dances with a beautiful girl and persuade her to spend time with you outside the club. That way, you have actually seen what you are in for (as you do in brothels outside of London where you can see before you buy). I've managed to do this successfully on multiple occasions. You are not supposed to proposition the girls but they say everyone does and occasionally if they like you enough they'll go for it.

[Jojosun]

I' In Leeds there is Winstons. The UK's only real equivalent of a German FKK club. Brilliant, gym, saunas, food, TV screens for sport, pool tables, music, professional massage services (no extras) and then 30+ lovely ladies to have fun with. If only this was the case in every UK city l.

LOL. I was so excited and was thinking of spreading the news, then I read this

If you do a web search you will find reviews which say the place is a dump with terrible service. It sounds more like a German puff than an FKK. I won't post a link to reviews as that would contravene this site's rules, the reviews being on English language forums.

Ah well, If it's too good to be true, then it probably is. And all that jazz.

[Jojosun]

But to each his own. I've never been a fan of massage parlors or FKK type spas, etc. , so the lack of those types of establishments doesn't bother me.

T!

If you are into BBBJ and DATY, then the new proposed law in Germany (Condom Duty) re these activities will hit the FKK clubs if it gets passed. In either case its not your loss.

I read exciting comments re a Uk style of FKK club in the North of the UK, got me excited then I read.

LOL it made chuckle

If you do a web search you will find reviews which say the place is a dump with terrible service. It sounds more like a German puff than an FKK. I won't post a link to reviews as that would contravene this site's rules, the reviews being on English language forums.

[Jojosun]

But to each his own. I've never been a fan of massage parlors or FKK type spas, etc. , so the lack of those types of establishments doesn't bother me.

The escort and AW scene is great if (like me) that's your pleasure. On a recent trip I had AW or agency outcall dates with 11 girls who were new / unknown to me (plus 2 dates with an old favorite I've known for several years). Of those 11 unknowns, I turned away 2 upon arrival - one because photos were way off (she was pretty hefty IRL), and the other only because of poor attitude. She was hot as hell but a real * from the get-go. Maybe I'm easy to please, or maybe I just have good luck. Either way, I personally love London for P4 P.

Past visits have been just as successful for me, and I can't wait for another opportunity to visit!

As you say, But to each his own. I find the recent comments about mongering in London rather amusing and I am sure it was banter and wasn't a serious assesment of mongering in London.

And the most amusing was The "Sex Travel Warning" to would be Overseas visitors who are thinking of mongering in London.

Comments such as.

If you are from outside the UK reading this. Come to London for the sights - . If you want a sex trip, avoid London completely. It is possibly the worst city in the world for mongering." Seriously?

And why shouldn't the millions of tourists who visit London combine the sights such as Big Ben with sex afterwards?

As for London "the worst city in the world for mongering" LOL it makes it sound as another city called Londonestan where Sharia Law is in enforced.

[Jojosun]

MP or brothels?

Anyway, in both cases, there are plenty of non-Asian places

For example, there is a nice MP with lovely Polish girls, I can't recall the name, I found it searching the web, you will find it if you care. But this an MP, where you get only HJ, and perhaps BJ occasionally.

For FS, thousands of places advertised for instance on acemassage. Or adultwork..

There are very good Polish MPS in West London where most Polish girls are to be found.

Maybe the Polish MP you refer to is in Hammersmith A Google search will show them under Polish Massage, ads on Backpage.

There is Isabelle and Maya.

A bit further down west another good place in Chiswick Grand Massage.

Or Kiss massage.

Of course there are some who need to be educated about the definition of what is a " Brothel" in The UK.

[PayForIt]

Hi Dreams,

Bang on about the choice and variety in London. Just checked adultwork and it shows in London there are 4308 escorts to choose from http://www.adultwork.com/SearchLocalC.asp.

One needs to do the correct search and read credible reviews and many hot ones are to be found.

Of course many of them work in Brothels. And its cheaper and more varied now than few years ago http://www.wikisexguide.com/wiki/London.

There are brothels as you know that don't advertise on adultwork but have their own sites complete with schedules of girls (4 at one and 3 at another) in central London.

Posted on them here many times before.

Non Asian massage places with happy ending or full service if they know you.

Parties nearly every day of the week, upscale swinger parties.

For a walk in sex without booking then its about a 20 minutes on the tube to an East End Sauna with a choice of girls open until 6 am. Anyone interested RTFF here, posted on it with the link before.

When mongering is not on the schedule, then a trip this time of the the year is recommended to Winter Wonderland at Hyde Park complete with a Bavarian Village without the FKK clubs and its free entry.

http://www.hydeparkwinterwonderland.com/ .

Interesting post Jojo. You say many WGs work in brothels in London and added the Wiki link so I followed it. Then looked under Brothels in London as I've been asking for a year to see if there really are any. And guess what. Under your link to London Brothels. There are NONE listed! LOL http://www.wikisexguide.com/wiki/London/Brothels.

[Sebastiane]

Yes I use Diva Escorts almost exclusively when I am in London and I've never had a bad experience with them. Though the pictures are airbrushed the girls have always been hot in real life too and great sex. Highly recommend them! Will try Electra next time!

Great report!

Hello guys,

This experience is from a couple of years ago, I recently came across this forum and I joined it a couple of weeks ago. I thought I'd give my report on the services and experiences I had with Diva Escorts.

This is an account of my first experience with an escort in London.

I was in London on a trip and I had the sudden urge to be with a girl so I fired up the browser on my laptop and got to doing some research on different sites and Diva stood out to me, and so I went through the gallery with all the girls they had available, shortlisted a few ready their individual reviews other people had given them and then gave Diva a call, was greeted by a sweet sounding female voice, and I had a nice chat with her, I gave her my list and also explained the type of services I was expecting, she immediately told me to go with Electra from the list I had provided her, she told me that Electra was pretty much "Open Minded" and that if she was comfortable with me she had a lot of services on offer on her menu. I booked hesitantly as all the pictures of the girls on the site were heavily photoshopped and I didn't know what to expect. The girl on the phone told me that she would confirm with Electra and get back to me in a couple of minutes.

I got a call back from Diva after around 5-10 minutes and my booking with Electra was confirmed. The address was forwarded to me via SMS..

[Jsxyz]

But to each his own. I've never been a fan of massage parlors or FKK type spas, etc. , so the lack of those types of establishments doesn't bother me.

The escort and AW scene is great if (like me) that's your pleasure. On a recent trip I had AW or agency outcall dates with 11 girls who were new / unknown to me (plus 2 dates with an old favorite I've known for several years). Of those 11 unknowns, I turned away 2 upon arrival - one because photos were way off (she was pretty hefty IRL), and the other only because of poor attitude. She was hot as hell but a real * from the get-go. Maybe I'm easy to please, or maybe I just have good luck. Either way, I personally love London for P4 P.

Past visits have been just as successful for me, and I can't wait for another opportunity to visit!

[Jojosun]

MP or brothels?

Anyway, in both cases, there are plenty of non-Asian places.

For example, there is a nice MP with lovely Polish girls, I can't recall the name, I found it searching the web, you will find it if you care. But this an MP, where you get only HJ, and perhaps BJ occasionally.

For FS, thousands of places advertised for instance on acemassage. Or adultwork..

Hi Dreams,

Bang on about the choice and variety in London. Just checked adultwork and it shows in London there are 4308 escorts to choose from http://www.adultwork.com/SearchLocalC.asp.

One needs to do the correct search and read credible reviews and many hot ones are to be found.

Of course many of them work in Brothels. And its cheaper and more varied now than few years ago http://www.wikisexguide.com/wiki/London.

There are brothels as you know that don't advertise on adultwork but have their own sites complete with schedules of girls (4 at one and 3 at another) in central London.

Posted on them here many times before.

Non Asian massage places with happy ending or full service if they know you.

Parties nearly every day of the week, upscale swinger parties.

For a walk in sex without booking then its about a 20 minutes on the tube to an East End Sauna with a choice of girls open until 6 am. Anyone interested RTFF here, posted on it with the link before.

When mongering is not on the schedule, then a trip this time of the the year is recommended to Winter Wonderland at Hyde Park complete with a Bavarian Village without the FKK clubs and its free entry.

http://www.hydeparkwinterwonderland.com/ .

[PayForIt]

The rise of the internet has given the London authorities all the excuse they could ever need to ensure that the 'physical' presence of prostitution is removed from the capital. Their argument is if you can buy it from the internet then why do you need to display it in a 'shop' on the street.

The law is the same all over the country however the police and the local councils tend to enforce the prostitution laws much more rigorously in London because it is the showpiece capital whereas people are less worried about what happens in Sheffield or Manchester. Or maybe Northerners in England are more straightforward and more practical in their attitudes to sex and life in general.

Whenever London's status as a mongering centre is attacked on this forum there are always staunch proponents who point out that you can always go on to AW or any of the other internet equivalents and within a few mouse clicks have access to more women of different nationalities than pretty much any other city in the world. Then once you have satisfied your lust then you will find that London is a cosmopolitan city with lots more things to do compared to other cities.

Missing the point that this forum is devoted to talking about sex and not museums.

I am a great fan for buying things on the internet rather than trudging the streets visiting different shops. However it is far easier and less costly to return a pair of shoes to a shop if they didn't quite match up to the online photo than it is to send an escort back because her photo has been photoshopped. Especially if she has taken the best part of an hour to get to you and spent over 50 UK pounds on a taxi one way.

Also if you are waiting there with a hard on you would probably say oh well, she's here now. She's not anywhere near what I wanted but I can't be bothered to boot up the computer and start all over again.

Great to see someone come onto this thread and just be honest about it. I love London. I was born and raised in London. It's a fantastic city. For everything other than mongering! But as you say, this isn't TripAdvisor. It's a forum about sex, its availability and options. London has lots of options but they all involve a completely unnecessary degree of risk of being disappointed. I have indeed been eagerly awaiting the arrival of an escort from escort sites, or from AW only to be completely shocked. It happened three weeks ago and the girl who turned up, described as 6-8 dress size on the website, was sadly very fat. Some guys love that. I'm not one of them. Trust me the boner I had awaiting her presence quickly died. What was I to do? I'm a nice guy! I don't want to say to someone "you're too fat". Sure I could have said "you were not the girl in the picture. Let me show you the picture of the girl I booked. " But it isn't her fault and that would be terribly hurtful. Just because she is a WG doesn't mean she doesn't have pride and/or feelings. It is the agency to blame - but in my experience they nearly all do it. They don't care - they know the guy wants sex and is waiting and that very few will ring up and say this isn't the girl so send me another one and I'll wait another 45 minutes on top of the 45 I already waited. So I had a session with her and of course that means the agency gets paid knowing they would even though they didn't provide what I booked. She was actually very good though the visuals were not there at all for me. I rang the agency to complain bitterly afterwards not about the girl but about them sending me someone who wasn't the girl in the picture. They insisted it was but yes she has put some weight on. It was total bull. I told them I won't be ringing them again. So what? I was VERY disappointed. Same has happened with AW. So using Escorts off sites, or Viva Street, or AW, I'm afraid doesn't work. I've left negative reviews on some escorts sites about poor performance - they NEVER get published - only the positive reviews - so that means none of us should rely upon those either.

So I'm afraid it does come down to what you say Myrrh. The police and authorities appear to have ensured that mongers don't have a visual selection of girls at various bordellos. It could just be a council based thing as strangely the same thing has happened in Leeds with most (but not all) of the regular establishments having closed down. So it's not northern acceptance / mentality. Across the M62 in Manchester massage parlors are thriving and they openly advertise. What a great shame that it's not possible to combine a lovely trip to London to see those museums and sights with a great selection in a brothel. It's possible in Madrid, Berlin, and even Rome (where it is illegal), Paris, Brussels, Amsterdam, Dubai (where it is illegal), Thailand, Nevada USA, Vegas, New York. Etc. I could go on. But it is most definitely NOT possible in London. At least that's what I've found. If I've got this wrong. And please believe me when I say I HOPE I have got it wrong. I would be truly thrilled for someone to PM me the details of a good old fashioned brothel in central London where I can look at 5 or 6 lovely ladies and select one to my choosing. Until then, I'm at the point of just accepting when I go to London that mongering isn't really on the agenda. Popping into an asian MP to have a quick tug at the end to relieve the need will need to be what London is all about. Very sad. Probably the worst city in the UK for mongering.

I've put this up not just to moan (as I was wrongly accused of). There are lots of guys on ISG who may be looking to visit London for the first time and would naturally think it surely is a great place for mongering. It is right and proper for someone (and now a couple - well done Myrrh) to be honest and say that London cannot be defended as a mongering destination because it is very poor. If you are from outside the UK reading this - come to London for the sights - it is possibly the BEST capital city in the world. If you want a sex trip, avoid London completely - it is possibly the WORST city in the world for mongering!

[Myrrh]

How terribly sad for London. I am aware of the UK laws. The law is no different in any other UK city. London doesn't have its own laws. There are plenty of openly advertised brothels in Manchester, Lees, Sheffield, Newcastle, Liverpool, Brighton, Milton Keynes etc. Only last week on Channel 4 there was an entire one hour programme highlighting City massage in Sheffield, with pictures, address, and full footage of the girls and even some punters who agreed to take part. I'm finding it really difficult that it is SO different for London.

I'm afraid it comes down to this. Unless mongers are willing to risk picking one girl off a photo-shopped escort site and thus being very disappointed with who stands in front of them, London may be our capital, but it doesn't rank in the top 30 cities in the UK for mongering!

The rise of the internet has given the London authorities all the excuse they could ever need to ensure that the 'physical' presence of prostitution is removed from the capital. Their argument is if you can buy it from the internet then why do you need to display it in a 'shop' on the street.

The law is the same all over the country however the police and the local councils tend to enforce the prostitution laws much more rigorously in London because it is the showpiece capital whereas people are less worried about what happens in Sheffield or Manchester. Or maybe Northerners in England are more straightforward and more practical in their attitudes to sex and life in general.

Whenever London's status as a mongering centre is attacked on this forum there are always staunch proponents who point out that you can always go on to AW or any of the other internet equivalents and within a few mouse clicks have access to more women of different nationalities than pretty much any other city in the world. Then once you have satisfied your lust then you will find that London is a cosmopolitan city with lots more things to do compared to other cities.

Missing the point that this forum is devoted to talking about sex and not museums.

I am a great fan for buying things on the internet rather than trudging the streets visiting different shops. However it is far easier and less costly to return a pair of shoes to a shop if they didn't quite match up to the online photo than it is to send an escort back because her photo has been photoshopped. Especially if she has taken the best part of an hour to get to you and spent over 50 UK pounds on a taxi one way.

Also if you are waiting there with a hard on you would probably say oh well, she's here now. She's not anywhere near what I wanted but I can't be bothered to boot up the computer and start all over again.