German FKK Clubs - Lounge and chat area

[McAdonis]

I know I am over stereotyping those three distinct markets, but the larger point I was making was that if you look at the ISG threads in most countries of Europe. Spain, Portugal, Czech Republic, France, United Kingdom, etc. , you will find a trend toward fewer reports of clubs and line-up brothels, and more reports with links to specific ads where a lady is working as an independent, for an agency, or at a very small brothel and her specific service offerings are listed and the customer needs to make an appointment to see her either outcall, at a shared trick pad, at her apartment, or at the small brothel. Those are things made available to a foreigner as a result of technology and efficiency that did not exist that long ago. It has changed the scene in those places and in my unsupportable way of thinking, has likely brought some talent into the business that would not have existed if those ladies had to work long hours at a line-up style brothel.

These countries never had anything comparable in scale and efficiency to German FKK. So if a new business model were to take over, it would not happen overnight. I suppose Spain may have big-scale brothels, but as you say the offerings are inconsistent (I. E. Some CBJ, different prices), which suggests me the operators are hand-off, and perhaps that turned off the local populace and pushed them towards a different scene.

Reading reviews and seeing links works well for me even if the face is blurred out. I am more concerned with body. As long as the photos are relatively recent and not over-photoshopped, I can still be 80% confident that I will be happy with the WG once I see her in person. Other guys are more face-oriented, and put a lot more emphasis on "chemistry".

The local german boards will have more reviews on non-FKK. ISG will be 90% FKK-focused.

[McAdonis]

Kaufmich deletes negative reviews if the girl requests it.

HB.

I don't think I've really read a Kaufmich review. I meant cross-referencing with a board. That seems to be the case with the adultwork site in the UK. The reviews suspiciously seem positive. And the reports are shorter than a Tweet, so instinctively I've always used other boards.

[Hessen Bub]

I've used Kaufmich, but I only picked girls who had reviews. I'd probably use Kaufmich more often if FKK clubs didn't exist of course.

Kaufmich deletes negative reviews if the girl requests it.

HB.

[Mongerer88]

Is there a service standard in Madrid, Spain, Lisbon brothels? One reason to avoid independents, is that there will be some oversight. Management keeps the girls from cheating whether that be a mega-brothel or a small escort agency. It may be the men are just fed up with inconsistent service, and found alternatives.

I've used Kaufmich, but I only picked girls who had reviews. I'd probably use Kaufmich more often if FKK clubs didn't exist of course.

At the true brothels in those specified countries, the offerings differ from lady to lady. The bad news is that some ladies are CBJ, non-GFE. The good news is that most are BBBJ / GFE and there are few, if any, reports of a foreigner being treated differently than a local. She does what she does with little favoritism for locals or regulars. The only exception is at the very large Barcelona brothels with traditional line-ups, where upsells for CIM and anal often occur and those upsells are high. I am not sure that they upsell foreigners more so than locals, because the local Barcelona review board focuses on the smaller brothels that have little or no upsells.

There is a more significant standardization of service amongst independents and agency girls who have their own profile within an agency website listing her services. Most perform exactly what they offer in their online ads, or they get called out on it in reviews and it hurts business. And relatively more reviews on ISG are of independents in Spain and of independents or specific agency ladies in Lisbon.

I know I am over stereotyping those three distinct markets, but the larger point I was making was that if you look at the ISG threads in most countries of Europe. Spain, Portugal, Czech Republic, France, United Kingdom, etc. , you will find a trend toward fewer reports of clubs and line-up brothels, and more reports with links to specific ads where a lady is working as an independent, for an agency, or at a very small brothel and her specific service offerings are listed and the customer needs to make an appointment to see her either outcall, at a shared trick pad, at her apartment, or at the small brothel. Those are things made available to a foreigner as a result of technology and efficiency that did not exist that long ago. It has changed the scene in those places and in my unsupportable way of thinking, has likely brought some talent into the business that would not have existed if those ladies had to work long hours at a line-up style brothel.

I found it interesting that those same changes do not seem to occur in Germany, at least at the same pace. When I go to an a FKK website, I barely see a girl, let alone details about each lady. But the customers seem quite happy with the system, so that is what counts. At the end of the day, we are all getting the same thing. I guess we are really discussing the delivery mechanism. Some guys enjoy going to the bookstore and browsing. Other guys prefer to buy the book (and see what others thought of the book) while on Amazon. Eventually they both read the book, and in this scenario, have sex with the girl.

[McAdonis]

For guys like me in a relationship it is much safer to go to a club. Online booking leaves too much of a data trail especially if phone verification is required.

Attending a FKK is risky if the monger's social and professional network is in the same geographic proximity as the FKK club. Why would a guy's Audi be seen driving in an industrial area on a Sunday night?

Many married mongers don't have the luxury to dedicate more than 1-2 hours for the hobby. FKKs don't really offer value if that's the case. Exception is maybe older married mongers in their 60's. Their wives I assume don't keep tabs on them anymore. So they can enjoy 12 hours at the club once a week no problem.

[McAdonis]

Today, there are incredibly detailed online advertising sites with detailed pictures and videos in those cities. Girls advertise very specific services including details regarding BBBJ, CIM, Greek, BDSM, and there are now a lot of reviews of independents and escort ladies advertising on those sites. Those reviews appear in abundance on ISG and even more so on the four local language review boards for those three cities. There are fewer brothel reviews on those four review sites, and the brothels that are reviewed tend to be smaller ones with 10 of fewer ladies that have upped their web presence with pictures and details of service offerings. A foreigner can simply access a completely different, and in my opinion better, market in those cities than he could even five years ago, and if he reads reviews, he should rarely be disappointed.

Is there a service standard in Madrid, Spain, Lisbon brothels? One reason to avoid independents, is that there will be some oversight. Management keeps the girls from cheating whether that be a mega-brothel or a small escort agency. It may be the men are just fed up with inconsistent service, and found alternatives.

I've used Kaufmich, but I only picked girls who had reviews. I'd probably use Kaufmich more often if FKK clubs didn't exist of course.

[Optimist]

For guys like me in a relationship it is much safer to go to a club. Online booking leaves too much of a data trail especially if phone verification is required.

[Exodus8]

Agree Master HB.

Additionally, for guys its less risky seeing how the girls looks like and also how they behave I. E. Classy behavior LOL.

For girls its about safety and to a certain degree also choose who they want to session with and hence you have the "asian killers" hehe.

[Hessen Bub]

There's a tiny difference between shopping for a book online at Amazon and having it sent home to read it and booking a hooker online. Most mongers wouldn't want her to be "delivered" to their homes with the wife and kids around. LOL. Or to book a hotel room. The clubs are providing the platform where girls and boys can meet, talk to each other, there's a big choice of girls depending on the size of the club, there's a certain standard to the service and probably most important for the guys is the wysiwyg effect.

I don't see any online trend for P6 in Germany besides more and more online advertising.

HB.

[The Cane]

Wow from Denmark too? That is a catch. I got blonde half swedish and german once in artemis, former palace girl named Kimmi few years ago that is.

Yes, I've had one Dane in my life, and also 100% Swedish from Gothenburg, Sweden. She was at Globe in Zurich when I went. Fucked her in her attractive, blonde, Nordic butt hole too! What else? Haha! Also sucked my dick like a mad woman throwing that pretty blonde hair every which a way LOL! Another flag to my extensive collection!

[Mongerer88]

Thanks for the comments everyone.

I enjoy the study of this topic, and it is very interesting to me how little the German FKK system has changed in the online world, and how little it has been harmed by technological competition.

The three cities I am most familiar with, Barcelona, Lisbon, and Madrid (although I am least familiar with Madrid), have changed significantly over the last few years, at least for a non-local. A long time ago, a visitor simply got a physical address and went to a relatively big brothel. Those were the only reviews on ISG. Even when a person found a local review site, to the extent he could translate it back then, the local reviews were oriented toward those well-known brothels.

Today, there are incredibly detailed online advertising sites with detailed pictures and videos in those cities. Girls advertise very specific services including details regarding BBBJ, CIM, Greek, BDSM, and there are now a lot of reviews of independents and escort ladies advertising on those sites. Those reviews appear in abundance on ISG and even more so on the four local language review boards for those three cities. There are fewer brothel reviews on those four review sites, and the brothels that are reviewed tend to be smaller ones with 10 of fewer ladies that have upped their web presence with pictures and details of service offerings. A foreigner can simply access a completely different, and in my opinion better, market in those cities than he could even five years ago, and if he reads reviews, he should rarely be disappointed.

Apparently, there is an appeal to FKKs that defeats the move to more online shopping that one can see in other parts of Europe. I don't have any true evidence of this, and Baltix noted that there is some online sex shopping in Germany. But at least based on the preponderance of FKK reports on ISG compared to a reports for Independents or agencies in Germany.

Hopefully, the CBJ rule will be ignored at the FKKs and German brothels. If not, I can't help but wonder if that might cause a change in demand toward independents with reviews if a guy want to continue utilizing the German market.

[Mr Ho]

I can confirm both of your statements. Although, I will forever remember my one foray into the Amsterdam red light scene since the girl I fucked looked like a very young, blonde Zsa Zsa Gabor! Said she was from Denmark, so I add that flag to my collection hehehe.

Wow from Denmark too? That is a catch. The best I get in Germany is German or czech and Hungarian LOL.

I got blonde half swedish and german once in artemis, former palace girl named Kimmi few years ago that is. She is gone and I am still keeping my eyes out for her, but I guess she quit the industry for good. If you know where she is about anyone, please do let me know.

This Kimmi is blonde one, not the black Kimmi that is at artemis now LOL I do not have thing for black women though I do like half white and half black now and then when I find real beauty one which is like every 4 years, bit like Olympic LOL.

[Member #4581]

"Market cap is irrelevant. ".

Who can argue with such pearls of widsom?!

"Apple has a very high market cap also, but most of that is cash laying around".

Apple has a market cap of $740 BN, and its gross and net cash (net of debt) are $235 BN and $160 BN. That is, 22% of market cap is net cash. Not *most* - unless the word most has a different meaning in some parts of the world.

Anyhow, it is a strange argument to make that market cap is irrelevant because a company has lot of cash. I hope this is not how accounting and finance are taught wherever you live.

"Retailers on the other hand has a higher turnover".

Did anyone dispute this? Whats the relevance of this to what we discussing (shift of business from offline to online, and if the sex industry will also follow that model)?

In any case, if profit is not an objective, any idiot can create a huge turnover. Sears still has nearly $22Bn in revenue annually. It's market cap is less than a billion and half. Pretty soon, it may go bankrupt.

"With insane salaries none others anywhere in the world can compete with. Just look at tesla. ".

Is someone jealous:0-) When a company has good business, good prospects, and investors like it, it is able to pay its people. I am always happy to see people get rewarded. That's how capitalism is supposed to work.

[Pistons]

Market cap is irrelevant. Apple has a very high market cap also, but most of that is cash laying around gathering dust in a swizz bank account. Retailers on the other hand has a higher turnover. Not to mention all the other reasons market cap is irrelevant... like marketing, cash from investment banks, private equity funds, quantitative easing etc... the silicon valley it bubble is more politics than turnover these days. With insane salaries none others anywhere in the world can compete with. Just look at tesla.

Then again, SF has long been seen as the most liberal american city. Maybe alongside Seattle.

[Solo Traveler]

Guys,
Who live in countries like sex prisons.
What do you do when you're now on a sex vacation?
Do you still have paid sex once in awhile, or practice abstinence?
I think I am living a life like a catholic priest with total abstinence recently. Good thing is that I save money pretty fast that I can soon arrange another sex vacation abroad. LOL.

Should be "What do you do when you're *NOT* on a sex vacation?

Not sure how much abstinence is being practiced by a Catholic priest either.
In the US, strip clubs are quite legal but other than giving blue balls and robbing you of hundreds of dollars in an hour or two, they provide very little relief. There is sex for sale in some of those strip clubs but again skirting the edge of legality.

A Catholic priest, by theory, practice total abstinence that they are not allowed to marry, have a relationship, have sex, or even masturbate.

And basically this is a lifestyle I'm living.

Not because I'm religious or something, just because I don't see a point to engage myself in any other activities other than having sex vacations abroad. LOL.

In my country, the cheapest paid sex I can access costs me around 45 Euros, and that's just for a quick suck and fuck under 15 minutes.

After I visited NRW clubs, now I just think, "Why don't I save all these money and use it in a more effective and enjoyable way?" Each 45 Euros I save means one more entry, or one more 30-minute sex in German FKK Sauna clubs. Far better than what I can get in my country.

And, yes, I can relate to you guys in the US.

One guy living in the Los Angeles told me that the only access he can get there is some mediocre escort in-calls, but even the cheapest option costs him 200-300 USD for an hour.

He said he use that service once a week. So, that's 800-1200 USD for 4 one-hour sessions in a month.

1200 USD equals to 1130 EUR, and that's approximately 11 one-hour sessions in a Hesse club.

4 VS 11.

I guess guys living in Western Europe can never imagine what it's like to live in a sex prison.

The reduced downtime that a sex worker has waiting for customers at a fixed facility goes away, so she does not necessarily feel the need to be compensated for the downtime through a higher price while doing sex. And the technology needed to achieve the greater efficiency is not particularly expensive.

I think it works in Germany because of the unique combination of less prosperous Eastern European women who do not place the same value on "down time" as the ladies in wealthier countries, and the influx of short-time business and convention travelers.
I just see the "online" system being more sustainable in the next many years than the brick and mortar model.

Theoretically, you've got a point.

But, in reality, a girl who work in FKK Sauna clubs charges 100 Euros max for an hour, while a girl who work independently or for an escort agency charges a lot more than that.

Let alone the price, many other factors which the clubs provide (food, facilities, the access to check out all women's bodies and faces in close distance, etc) cannot be replaced by the "online system".

I always draw an analogy between sex and food.

"Online system", incall, or outcall, are like ordering food by the Internet or phone, while "Clubs system", on the other hand, is like walking into a restaurant with buffet setups.